In light of the competitive place of G Midrange decks in general and A_E_I_Own_U's contribution, I am shuttering this thread in favor of GX(x) Midrange
BGx Midrange
Introduction
This thread covers Green Black Midrange decks. For most of it's life it covered Winding Constrictor decks. With the advent of Dominaria and dominance of Goblin Chainwhirler decks that often include Soul-Scar Mage, some of us who love Constictor dearly find it a liability. Hence I repurpose this thread to include all GBx Midrange decks. There are GBx Midrange decks putting up good finishes both with and without Constrictor.
The Winding Constrictor archetype builds around +1/+1 counter synergies involving Winding Constrictor with a base of strong green creatures and powerful black removal. After the release of Aether Revolt, these decks were immediately competitive.
These is based on an midrange decks in previous formats, so try this if:
You like turning creatures sideways
You like exploiting synergistically powerful cards to kill people with above the curve creatures (Constrictor and Explore versions).
You like grinding out matches with value creatures and powerful removal and card draw (nonconstrictor versions).
I have not emphasized decklists in this primer because they are quite easy to review comprehensively by following the event links in the history section. These links should bring you to an mtggoldfish page listing all the highest placing decks. You can then either expand each deck in-page or go to a page with any decklist of interest. History
"Snek" deck dominated the first major tournament after the release of Aether Revolt with three of the top 8 places (including the winner) at SCG Open Columbus on 1/22/17. After less impressive showings at Scg Open Richmond and Pro Tour Aether Revolt, this archetype took five of the top 8 places at GP Pittsburgh on 2/12/17. As Copycat Combo solidified its hold on the Aether Revolt format, Constrictor decks fell back.
With Amonkhet and the banning of Felidar Guardian, the meta shifted. As of 6/4/17, Marvel seems to be the most powerful deck in the meta, but more aggressive and consistent decks may be able to chip away at its dominance. Constrictor pilots have been able to carve out a place in the meta in this triple-GP weekend. The results of GP Manila, GP Amsterdam and GP Omaha show successful Constrictor decks utilizing energy and Delirium themes alongside versions that manifested neither theme.
Post-Marvel banning, both Delirium and Energy are proving competitive on MTGO. Energy decks tend to be more aggressive.
With Zendikar-Innistrad rotation and the advent of Ixalan, Sultai Snek (Sultai Energy) won the first major tournament: SCG Dallas.
After more or less no-showing some major tournaments, Sultai snek roared back at Pro Tour Ixalan to do well and power a win by Seth Manfield.
Despite being hit hard by the banning of Attune with Aether and Rogue Refiner, Constrictor has been competitive in the Rivals of Ixalan meta. Jadelight Ranger and Hadana's Climb have been effective additions to the decks. There are three variants that have seen some success: one splashing U for Hadana's Climb, one using the Explore Mechanic and another classic GB.
In Dominaria Standard, R and Rb have proved dominant, but there have been occasional successes for Constrictor and non-Constrictor midrange decks.
Cards Bold indicates core cards.
Indeterminate Walking Ballista: Pro - Gets bigger with snek out, can snipe other creatures, can go to dome, can hit planeswalkers, grows by itself, can fire counters from Rishkar, Nissa or Verdurous; Con - under the curve by itself, expensive activated ability.
1 Drop Deadeye Tracker - Utility value depending on meta. probably too slow for more aggressive variants Gnarlwood Dryad: Pro - Deathtouch, above the curve with Delirium; Con - fragile without Delirium. Greenbelt Rampager: Pro - above the curve, can provide energy and trigger Revolt; Con - not really a 1-drop without energy. Narnam Renegade: Pro - Deathtouch, above the curve with revolt, always >1 toughness; Con - Revolt is hard to achieve early.
2 Drop Gifted Aetherborn: Pro - lifelink, deathtouch, cheap, just wins races if not removed; Con - hard to cast T2. Glint-Sleeve Siphoner: Pro - card advantage; Con - fragile. One of the biggest draws to an energy build. Kitesail Freebooter: disruption stapled onto an evasive body, but not much of a body. Longtusk Cub - by itself it's a lame 2/2. But in a heavy energy deck it promises to be at least a 3/3 who can attack and either eat defending creatures or generate more energy. Situationally great. Ranging Raptors: possible ramp Scrapheap Scrounger: Pro - hits hard, can be recurred; Con - doesn't block. Servant of the Conduit - great for ramping to Gearhulk, can be an energy source, but lousy for being a 2/2. Winding Constrictor: (snek) Pro - decent body that makes +1/+1 counter and energy transactions bigger, almost everything in the deck is improved; Con - not great by itself.
3 Drop Deathgorge Scavenger: graveyard utility, lifegain relevant against Ramunap Red Jadelight Ranger: With a Constrictor out, this insane thing dials up to 11. A great value piece that takes over for Rogue Refiner without missing a beat Manglehorn: Pro - Card and tempo advantage against artifacts; Con - mopey body for the cost Rhonas the Indomitable: Pro - oversized with Deathtouch, ignores damage and destroy effects, activated ability grants trample and power; Con - Needs another 4 power creature to attack or block, activated ability is expensive. Seems better in energy builds Rishkar, Peema Renegade: Pro - ramp, counters distributed at will, fabulous with Constrictor, good with Ballista; Con - disappointing on an empty board, legendary means you likely don't want more than 2-3. Rogue Refiner: So much value! Shapers of Nature - Wow! Abilities are too expensive, but talk about a mana sink in a board stall Thrashing Brontodon: Above curve with benefits Yahenni, Undying Partisan: Pro - Haste, counter synergy; Con - conditional.
4 Drop Bone Picker: Pro - under curve with removal, Deathtouch and flying means that it trades with many creatures including Heart, Push needs revolt to hit it; Con - Undersized at the normal casting cost, dies to Shock and Magma Spray Bristling Hydra: Pro - with energy can get huge, conditional hexproof; Con - slow Gonti, Lord of Luxury: Pro - card advantage; Con - slow. Herald of Secret Streams - potential finisher, but conditional, maybe 1-2 in Sultai sideboards depending on meta Hostage Taker - Not particularly synergistic and slow, but so much card advantage! Ravenous Chupacabra: Just good value, but probably foolish to ignore due to lack of synergy. Ripjaw Raptor - above rate, synergistic with Walking Ballista and Rhonas Waker of the Wilds - probably too slow. If only it turned the lands into creatures first that wouldn't die to state-based effects
5 Drop The Scarab God: Midrange mirror breaker, resilient but slow, can take over Verdurous Gearhulk: Pro - huge, pseudo-haste by putting counters on creatures that are not summoning sick, with Constrictor and multiple targets even huger; Con - without other creatures, can be removed tempo-negatively.
6 Drop Carnage Tyrant: UR control killer, but is that even relevant? Noxious Gearhulk: Pro - Card advantage, lifegain, two types for Delirium, menace makes it hard to block; Con - expensive, undersized
Removal Battle at the Bridge: Exiling removal with lifegain! But expensive and sorcery speed. maybe an answer for Hazoret, but yuk. Fatal Push: Pro - efficient removal; Con - not good against control or 5+ drops, revolt is not necessarily easy to achieve with this deck which makes it hard to hit 3-4 drops. Harnessed Lightning - With Hub and Attune, an energy build can easily splash red, and play this. Given enough energy, able to kill large creatures. Hour of Glory: Strong, slow removal. Exiles! Never // Return: Pro - sorcery helps Delirium, hits Planeswalkers, Return can be useful for a body and to get rid of Scrapheap Scrounger or Dread Wanderer; Con - expensive, hard to cast. Vraska's Contempt - powerful, versatile and expensive Walk the Plank - efficient, but a sorcery
Draw, Tutor, Scry Arguel's Blood Fast - drawing cards is good, right? Attune with Aether: Pro - fixing, energy enabler; Con - slow and worse late game than Traverse. Lifecrafter's Bestiary: Pro - Cheap card advantage, free scrys; Con - slow, doesn't affect board by itself. Rishkar's Expertise: Pro - Potentially huge card advantage and mana efficiency; Con - bad without other creatures, win more?
Anti-Interaction (there has got to be a better name for this category!) Blossoming Defense: Any combination of blow out your removal spell, buff my guy to win combat or escape damage based sweeper for a single G? Seems conditionally good. Heroic Intervention: Pro - can nullify Fumigate or a removal spell; Con - reactive in a deck that wants to tap out, conditional, not good against untargeted +-X/-Y effects. Negate: counters sweepers, removal, draw, enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers. Good catchall against noncreature decks Shaper's Sanctuary: potentially effective against Ramunap Red or high-removal midrange-control decks, not good against sweepers or Settle the Wreckage Spell Pierce: An uptempo Negate, hard to play around
Disruption Duress: strong anti-control card, can get under countermagic or provide information before a potentially risky move. Harsh Scrutiny: Pro - cheap, scry; Con - specialized toward decks that we generally do well against anyway. Lay Bare the Heart: Pro - gets rid of many things you really care about, can clear path or draw counter to let you resolve what you really want to; Con - can be a bad topdeck. Often in sideboards to bring in against control and combo. Dispossess: Pro - can hit all copies of Marvel or Torrential Gearhulk, whether in hand or not; Con - Only hits artifacts. Tempo hit. Card disadvantage if they don't have any in hand. Can be awful to draw in multiples. Lost Legacy: Pro - can hit all copies, whether in hand or not; Con - Not hitting artifacts is a big drawback as you really want to be able to name Torrential Gearhulk. Tempo hit. Card disadvantage if they don't have any in hand.
Specialized Hate Dissenter's Deliverance: Pro - instant speed, can be cycled; Con - specialized. Natural Obsolescence: Pro - almost as good as exile; Con - specialized. Appetite for the Unnatural: Pro - general, instant, lifegain can be surprisingly relevant; Con - slow, hate to use it on recursive creature like Scrounger. Sorcerous Spyglass: potential hate that shows opponent's hand, could be powerful
Misc Artifacts Aethersphere Harvester: Pro - Lifelink, Evasion, big butt, can't be targeted by unrevolted Push;Con - Requires another creature to crew.
Sweepers Hazardous Conditions: Pro - synergistic; Con - slow, not powerful. Yahenni's Expertise: Pro - Efficient; Con - not particularly useful against current Tier 1 decks.
Planeswalkers Liliana, Death's Majesty: Pro - powerful, can help with delirium; Con - Expensive, Heart of Kiran. Disallow. Nissa, Vital Force: Pro - reaches powerful ultimate quickly, can ramp or be a quick beating for opponent; Con - slow, conditional. Vraska, Relic Seeker - High loyalty, destroy enchantments, artifacts and creatures? Sure[/cards]
Aether Hub: Pro - Energy, fixing; Con - inconsistent color source. Blooming Marsh: Pro - Great fixing early; Con - not great topdecked. Botanical Sanctum: Great for a U splash Evolving Wilds: Pro - Allows better Pushes, improves fixing; Con - comes into play tapped. Foul Orchard: Always tapped, but what are we doing on turn 1 anyway? Pray for good enemy color duals in Dominaria.
The MOCS championships and published MTGO 5-0s suggest that Sultai Climb (Snakes and Ladders) is competitive and maybe the most competitive version as shown by this, this and this. More classic GB Constrictor has also achieved MTGO 5-0.
Pro Tour Ixalan champion Seth Manfield's version. Other versions did well, as can be seen here. I can confidently say that the correct number of Hostage Taker is between 0 and 4.
A straight GB deck that 5-0ed a competitive MTGO league on 12/4/17. 3 Ripjaw Raptors and 4 Verdurous Gearhulks!
Obolete Articles, Videos, Etc.
Tannon Grace Deck Tech of the SCG Open Dallas winning deck
Video including Deck Tech by Shawn McLaren at Star City. Caveat: I haven't seen it, so I can't vouch for it personally.
Steve Rubin posted a Video with Deck Tech on TCGPlayer. I haven't seen this either, but I find his thoughts at the end of the article to be intriguing.
Craig Wescoe demonstrates a BG Explore Constrictor deck here. He doesn't claim that it is necessarily competitive, but it seems fun and doesn't require Hostage Taker. Maybe a budget option?
Mtggoldfish analysis of Pro Tour Ixalan. Hint: snek dun gud! But also beware, as a small number of very good players (Seth Manfield, Brad Nelson, Corey Baumeister) and a heavy Temur meta could have contributed. Don't expect to do well without putting in reps. I don't consider this deck overpowered, just good.
This thread is for discussing the evolution of Snek decks. I want to discuss interesting new cards and propose Golgari and Sultai preliminary lists. I would like to invite discussion of Abzan, Jund and four color lists.
Interesting new cards:
Synergy
Bellowing Aegisaur - win-more off color six drops anyone? Needs a go-wide build. Oketra's Monument? Getting enough enrage enablers seeems challenging.
Storm Fleet Aerialist - interesting because of flying, but probably too weak and conditional
Herald of Secret Streams - potential finisher, but conditional, maybe 1-2 in Sultai sideboards depending on meta
Deadeye Tracker - Utility value depending on meta. probably too slow for more aggressive variants
Both of these lists are very strong. Snek really won't lose all that much during rotation and still retains some of its key players. I noticed in your sultai build that you're running more exile affects in your sideboard because your mana base doesn't allow you to run Scavenger Grounds MB. Do you really think it's worth splashing U for The Scarab God? On paper, it looks like the you'd normally spend getting a zombie with the god may be better put to use casting something else, possibly another 4-drop. Plus having another Ripjaw Raptor in the deck instead Scarab can potentially net you more CA. Either way, solid stuff!
Yeah, these lists are uninspired. I wanted to start the discussion and I think the mana is a decent starting point.
I believe in The Scarab God and want to use it as my exile effect rather than Scavenger Grounds. There are other U splash cards that I like: Rogue Refiner, Champion of Wits; but I have trouble taking stuff out. For now, I want to collect ideas and see spoilers.
Interesting that he has 2 Ripjaw Raptor. The body is very significant and can be pinged by Walking Ballista to keep the deck from stalling out. I can't figure out why he decided to go with a singleton Dreamstealer. Sure, it can cripple an opponent's hand later in the game, but that's 1) Only if he's able to find and play it, and 2) Only if he's able to Eternalize it either before he's dead or an opponent somehow exiles it from his GY. I'd rather go with another Raptor over this. Did he post a SB?
In this article, Zen Takahashi proposes the following:
...
Interesting that he has 2 Ripjaw Raptor. The body is very significant and can be pinged by Walking Ballista to keep the deck from stalling out. I can't figure out why he decided to go with a singleton Dreamstealer. Sure, it can cripple an opponent's hand later in the game, but that's 1) Only if he's able to find and play it, and 2) Only if he's able to Eternalize it either before he's dead or an opponent somehow exiles it from his GY. I'd rather go with another Raptor over this. Did he post a SB?
I link the article so you can see for yourself that he doesn't offer a sideboard, which makes some sense given the unknown meta.
I haven't been impressed by Dreamstealer either, but people have done well with it.
The oasis, verdurous gearhulk and blossoming defense are what really make the dreamstealer shine. Also rishkar. The deck has enough ways to pump other creatures that dreamstealer is often not a 1/2 but a 3/4 or maybe bigger. T2 servant, t3 dreamstealer, t4 verdurous puts your opponent in a bad place. But you don't really ever want the stealer in multiples. A good card that has been outshined in the current meta that I've been working with is Nissa, Vital Force. Her Ult is significant if she survives a turn.
Nothing here is a solution to glory bringer. It is the sole card that we HAD to have grasp for. I don't see a solution for this other than vraska's contempt and that is a terrible plan.
I was running the oath of nissa version of aggro but now that plan is gutted so i feel the only version that is viable is the energy version, albeit very weak atm
We could splash W for Authority of the Consuls and Cast Out or Skywhaler's Shot. But Splashing is kind of a big deal, I kind of hate Authority and holding up 3-4 mana is bad.
Maybe just accept some damage? A lot of our stuff is resistant. Rhonas doesn't care. Gearhulk can make stuff big. Bristling Hydra can be Hexproof. Ripjaw draws us a card. 5 toughness is the magic number. The Scarab God can take 4. Then we make it Walk the Plank and eternalize it. I don't have anything clean, but I have been playing against Sultai snek in our current meta with Temur and it's pretty even.
Is this thread still going, or has all discussion moved to the thread in Proven? Haven't seen much action in either place...
Anyway, I've been tinkering with this for the last week or so, as I need a new list cause my RW Humans are no longer a thing. I started at merfolk and then evolved to merge it into existing BG strategies. I'm not on the energy plan at this point, so hopefully this barely Sultai brew will offer another starting point for discussion. Full disclosure: it's not seen game testing yet, just online builder goldfishing (which is pretty smooth). Sadly I don't have time or resources to devote at the moment, but I can't stop myself from making stuff up so this is what you get
The board obviously is a wild guess, so don't focus too much on that.
Main deck it feels like there is good synergy between the couple of merfolk added to round out the usual BG suspects. I've been liking River Heralds' Boon as another source of counters - even with only 9 merfolk in the deck it rarely lacks both targets, and it's amazing with snek and/or Deeproot Champion out.
The random Shapers of Nature is there to be a mana sink & to add counters synergy, and is an extra fish to make Boon work better. That spot could be a lot of other things but I like Shapers right now.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary is fantastic. Even just vs the goldfish I can see how much work it does to make things run smoothly. I have considered Shapers' Sanctuary in that spot, but for me the scry just makes Bestiary better.
The obvious exclusion is Herald of Secret Streams. It feels like a card that really requires gameplay and a better understanding of the meta to evaluate properly, and since I'm not at that point I don't want to plug it in yet.
Is it as good as an energy list? I honestly don't know. This is just the direction my brewing took me. Critique away!
I think the best plan against Glorybringer in an energy deck might be [[Aethersphere Harvester]], [[Skysovereign, Consul Flagship]], and adding a color for cheaper removal. [[Harnessed Lightning]], [[Essence Scatter]], [[Confiscation Coup]] are the best possibilities I see. Also, whatever replaces [[Transgress the Mind]] for discard spells.
In the short term I aim to update my G/B/W energy-combo deck:
I have 1 question I want to figure out: What are the threats to our archetype, what decks and strategies are going to give us the most trouble?
I have been playing Temur-base 5 color energy, but I don't want to be playing damage-based removal against Ripjaw. I would rather play with the Ballista-Ripjaw combo and be using destroy-based removal on Ripjaws.
Decks/cards that I am concerned with:
UWx Control with Settle the Wreckage and Fumigate: attacking into 2WW mana will be quite challenging. I am counting on Ramunap Red to keep these decks from being too prevalent. Vraska may be our best answer to resolved enchantments
Ramunap Red with Ferocidon: deck is great. Vraska's Contempt will be needed against Hazoret. I hope we can compete as long as we stay low enough to the ground. Lifegain would be nice, but I am hoping to avoid Battle at the Bridge.
Temur/x with Ripjaw Raptor, The Scarab God and Carnage Tyrant: kind of a top dog, the shell allows everything, but damage based removal is bad against Ripjaw Raptor. This deck could have trouble against the next one.
RGx Dinosaurs with dorks, Ripjaw, Regisaur, Carnage Tyrant: This deck has a lot of pressure and big threats. The extra body from Alpha will be a problem. Hopefully we can be a better Ripjaw deck or our stuff gets big enough to deal. Rhonas matches up well with Carnage Tyrant. If there is a version that runs Wakening Sun's Avatar, that could be challenging.
The Enrage Dinos seem to line up well against Red as well given their high toughness and probably against Temur's thopter chumping. Ripjaw Raptor also doesn't die to Glorybringer and Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
I noticed that recent GB Constrictor decks haven't been running the full playset of Verdurous Gearhulk. Is there a specific reason for this? Would it be better to switch out a couple for something like Nissa, Vital Force or Liliana, Death's Majesty?
I have been curious about what a Bellowing Aegisaur list would look like. I think people don't run 4 Verdurous for curve considerations and the way it is not great against Abrade. I have put plenty of Glory-Bound Initiate in decks, but they just die. They don't seem that synergistic, either. Ranging Raptors seem interesting. The following represent my ignorant suggestions.
With that curve, I would run 4 mana dorks. You aren't running Energy, so Servant of the Conduit may not be good. Channeler Initiate interacts badly with Winding Constrictor, but you could try Druid of the Cowl. Druid of the Cowl only makes G though. I would be tempted to run an energy package with Attune and Servants.
With no other energy, 4 Aether Hub will often be problematic. Your 2-3 Aether Hub draws will leave you unable to cast spells too quickly.
Evolving Wilds is good with Fatal Push, but I wonder whether some Scattered Groves and Sunpetal Grove make sense. Both cycling and coming into play untapped can be useful
The Enrage Dinos seem to line up well against Red as well given their high toughness and probably against Temur's thopter chumping. Ripjaw Raptor also doesn't die to Glorybringer and Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
I noticed that recent GB Constrictor decks haven't been running the full playset of Verdurous Gearhulk. Is there a specific reason for this? Would it be better to switch out a couple for something like Nissa, Vital Force or Liliana, Death's Majesty?
Looking at something like this too. The blue versions just aren't worth tuning blue. B/g is still better than BUG.
I'll try some BGW today and let you guys know. Also I wanna try a jund build
Looking at something like this too. The blue versions just aren't worth tuning blue. B/g is still better than BUG.
I'll try some BGW today and let you guys know. Also I wanna try a jund build
Genuinely curious: what about blue makes it worse than white or red?
It can't be the mana base, cause I'd expect you're going to run into issues no matter what 3 colours you want to run. Have you found that blue doesn't have enough of an impact to make it worthwhile? If that's the case, what do white or red bring to the table that is better?
I'm currently looking to test a G/bu list (a few posts up) but if I've missed better cards in other colours I'd be interested in knowing.
The mana seems solid at requiring 12 Blue, 18 Green, 18 Black, and getting 13 Blue, 20 Green, and 18 Black. Could maybe use Foul Orchard, Fetid Pools, or Evolving Wilds to tighten it up a bit but I'm fairly certain I don't need Servant of the Conduit. I haven't liked Servant for a long time either so that pleases me. Not sure if 21 lands and 4 Attunes are right either, but it's served me well for the curve in the past. The only question is Vraska's Contempt being rather mana hungry.
The instant speed suite of cards comes in at a Blossoming Defense to keep my opponents on guard, 4 Fatal Push for any Aggro, and Vraska's Contempt to deal with much of what anyone can throw at us. It's got 4-7 cards dead against various Control, but that's always been the case. I'm not sure how well Control will survive though with Shapers' Sanctuary and Carnage Tyrant around. Main things I'm looking to deal with are Runamap Red, Temur Black Energy, God-Pharaoh's Gift, and some flavor of Dinos.
The creature core is based on the 4 of Winding Constrictor, Longtusk Cub, Walking Ballista, and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner. They've been a part of this deck since the inception and I don't think I'm ready to cut any of it. 4 Rogue Refiner coming with the deck once it's gone blue feels mandatory as well. This core alone is plenty capable of winning games via all the interactions and card advantage I can accrue. Now come the one of cards I'm just not certain of and need more than the 15 or so games of testing I've already done to decide whether I'm keeping them that way. The deck feels un-optimized with them there, but I'm not sure which way I want to proceed. Rishkar, Peema Renegade provides more +1/+1 counter support and can dump the deck into the field more effective with the mana ramp, Ripjaw Raptor feels like it has a place here with it's body and Enrage shenanigans, and Bristling Hydra has always been one of the more difficult to deal with cards in any Green based energy deck often ending games on the spot against Control. Hostage Taker is a great 1 for 1 or 3 for 1 when it works right. It either forces an answer or goes to the skies in card advantage. Also a funny way to deal with an artifact in the main board. Verdurous Gearhulk will end games if Constrictor is out or even it if isn't can spread out a bunch of power into play so it's definitely the primary 5 drop. Of course The Scarab God will flat out win games on his own against any other grindy deck that can't deal with him. This card is the reason you can beat dinos in a ground stall.
My sideboard feels horrible. It's got anti-graveyard, anti-control, anti-combo, anti-creature, anti-artifact, and anti-enchantment but it doesn't feel like it fits with what I'd side out yet. I've been super impressed with Shapers' Sanctuary though. The rest I think needs tweaking up or down, but without really knowing the meta and without enough experience yet I'm unsure which direction.
Looking at something like this too. The blue versions just aren't worth tuning blue. B/g is still better than BUG.
I'll try some BGW today and let you guys know. Also I wanna try a jund build
Genuinely curious: what about blue makes it worse than white or red?
It can't be the mana base, cause I'd expect you're going to run into issues no matter what 3 colours you want to run. Have you found that blue doesn't have enough of an impact to make it worthwhile? If that's the case, what do white or red bring to the table that is better?
I'm currently looking to test a G/bu list (a few posts up) but if I've missed better cards in other colours I'd be interested in knowing.
Thanks!
Misunderstanding. I didn't mean red or white is better. I mean just sticking to black/green is better.
The mana seems solid at requiring 12 Blue, 18 Green, 18 Black, and getting 13 Blue, 20 Green, and 18 Black. Could maybe use Foul Orchard, Fetid Pools, or Evolving Wilds to tighten it up a bit but I'm fairly certain I don't need Servant of the Conduit. I haven't liked Servant for a long time either so that pleases me. Not sure if 21 lands and 4 Attunes are right either, but it's served me well for the curve in the past. The only question is Vraska's Contempt being rather mana hungry.
The instant speed suite of cards comes in at a Blossoming Defense to keep my opponents on guard, 4 Fatal Push for any Aggro, and Vraska's Contempt to deal with much of what anyone can throw at us. It's got 4-7 cards dead against various Control, but that's always been the case. I'm not sure how well Control will survive though with Shapers' Sanctuary and Carnage Tyrant around. Main things I'm looking to deal with are Runamap Red, Temur Black Energy, God-Pharaoh's Gift, and some flavor of Dinos.
The creature core is based on the 4 of Winding Constrictor, Longtusk Cub, Walking Ballista, and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner. They've been a part of this deck since the inception and I don't think I'm ready to cut any of it. 4 Rogue Refiner coming with the deck once it's gone blue feels mandatory as well. This core alone is plenty capable of winning games via all the interactions and card advantage I can accrue. Now come the one of cards I'm just not certain of and need more than the 15 or so games of testing I've already done to decide whether I'm keeping them that way. The deck feels un-optimized with them there, but I'm not sure which way I want to proceed. Rishkar, Peema Renegade provides more +1/+1 counter support and can dump the deck into the field more effective with the mana ramp, Ripjaw Raptor feels like it has a place here with it's body and Enrage shenanigans, and Bristling Hydra has always been one of the more difficult to deal with cards in any Green based energy deck often ending games on the spot against Control. Hostage Taker is a great 1 for 1 or 3 for 1 when it works right. It either forces an answer or goes to the skies in card advantage. Also a funny way to deal with an artifact in the main board. Verdurous Gearhulk will end games if Constrictor is out or even it if isn't can spread out a bunch of power into play so it's definitely the primary 5 drop. Of course The Scarab God will flat out win games on his own against any other grindy deck that can't deal with him. This card is the reason you can beat dinos in a ground stall.
My sideboard feels horrible. It's got anti-graveyard, anti-control, anti-combo, anti-creature, anti-artifact, and anti-enchantment but it doesn't feel like it fits with what I'd side out yet. I've been super impressed with Shapers' Sanctuary though. The rest I think needs tweaking up or down, but without really knowing the meta and without enough experience yet I'm unsure which direction.
This is the list I've been trying as well. I found out I had to have rhonas for the trample or I just couldn't win against a lot of decks. They would stall me out and I could push thru. The refiner is less than optimal. He doesn't do much imo. Less of him is always better imo.
I have been playing the white combo version but it is very clunky. The glorybound inniate isn't where we wanna be. Also been trying a jund version which either gets blown out or does the stomping
Misunderstanding. I didn't mean red or white is better. I mean just sticking to black/green is better.
Whoops. I read your comment about BG being better than BUG, and your follow-up about wanting to try versions with W and R, and took that to mean that one of those combinations would be better than with U. Clearly the caffeine hadn't kicked in properly...
Your latest post suggests that haven't been too impressed with either of W or R builds. Sounds like sticking to BG is likely the best course of action for now.
I have been curious about what a Bellowing Aegisaur list would look like. I think people don't run 4 Verdurous for curve considerations and the way it is not great against Abrade. I have put plenty of Glory-Bound Initiate in decks, but they just die. They don't seem that synergistic, either. Ranging Raptors seem interesting. The following represent my ignorant suggestions.
With that curve, I would run 4 mana dorks. You aren't running Energy, so Servant of the Conduit may not be good. Channeler Initiate interacts badly with Winding Constrictor, but you could try Druid of the Cowl. Druid of the Cowl only makes G though. I would be tempted to run an energy package with Attune and Servants.
With no other energy, 4 Aether Hub will often be problematic. Your 2-3 Aether Hub draws will leave you unable to cast spells too quickly.
Evolving Wilds is good with Fatal Push, but I wonder whether some Scattered Groves and Sunpetal Grove make sense. Both cycling and coming into play untapped can be useful
Maybe I'll switch out the Initiates with Drover of the Mighty. I'm also considering Tocatli Honor Guard after reading the channelfireball article on hate cards.
The landbase is definitely going to evolve after some playtesting.
Tocatli Honor Guard wrecks your own Bristling Hydra, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, Rogue Refiner, Rishkar and Verdurous Gearhulk hard. If you play it, you may need to kill it.
Based on the notion that people will be going heavy Red, plus Temur, plus aggro dinos/pirates, and not running any new cards main (though I happen to have 4 Vraskas' Contempt):
So basically very aggressive, plenty of removal for little stuff, and Coup to take care of big problem creatures.
Based on the notion that people will be going heavy Red, plus Temur, plus aggro dinos/pirates, and not running any new cards main (though I happen to have 4 Vraskas' Contempt):
So basically very aggressive, plenty of removal for little stuff, and Coup to take care of big problem creatures.
In the games where it matters, why Spell Pierce over Negate? How often will that 1 mana on your end make a difference, and how often will they "tap out" while you don't have the requisite mana open? If you're aggro, you don't hold up mana early game, so this is a later game counterspell. Or is the thought that this is a hold up against T4/T5 wrath where you can still have mana up for a creature post-combat?
__________________________________
Random poll for the group. Shapers' Sanctuary or Lifecrafter's Bestiary? And why?
Tocatli Honor Guard wrecks your own Bristling Hydra, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, Rogue Refiner, Rishkar and Verdurous Gearhulk hard. If you play it, you may need to kill it.
Maybe I just like a challenge.
I definitely didn't just completely miss those interactions. lol
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Introduction
This thread covers Green Black Midrange decks. For most of it's life it covered Winding Constrictor decks. With the advent of Dominaria and dominance of Goblin Chainwhirler decks that often include Soul-Scar Mage, some of us who love Constictor dearly find it a liability. Hence I repurpose this thread to include all GBx Midrange decks. There are GBx Midrange decks putting up good finishes both with and without Constrictor.
The Winding Constrictor archetype builds around +1/+1 counter synergies involving Winding Constrictor with a base of strong green creatures and powerful black removal. After the release of Aether Revolt, these decks were immediately competitive.
These is based on an midrange decks in previous formats, so try this if:
- You like turning creatures sideways
- You like exploiting synergistically powerful cards to kill people with above the curve creatures (Constrictor and Explore versions).
- You like grinding out matches with value creatures and powerful removal and card draw (nonconstrictor versions).
I have not emphasized decklists in this primer because they are quite easy to review comprehensively by following the event links in the history section. These links should bring you to an mtggoldfish page listing all the highest placing decks. You can then either expand each deck in-page or go to a page with any decklist of interest.History
"Snek" deck dominated the first major tournament after the release of Aether Revolt with three of the top 8 places (including the winner) at SCG Open Columbus on 1/22/17. After less impressive showings at Scg Open Richmond and Pro Tour Aether Revolt, this archetype took five of the top 8 places at GP Pittsburgh on 2/12/17. As Copycat Combo solidified its hold on the Aether Revolt format, Constrictor decks fell back.
With Amonkhet and the banning of Felidar Guardian, the meta shifted. As of 6/4/17, Marvel seems to be the most powerful deck in the meta, but more aggressive and consistent decks may be able to chip away at its dominance. Constrictor pilots have been able to carve out a place in the meta in this triple-GP weekend. The results of GP Manila, GP Amsterdam and GP Omaha show successful Constrictor decks utilizing energy and Delirium themes alongside versions that manifested neither theme.
Post-Marvel banning, both Delirium and Energy are proving competitive on MTGO. Energy decks tend to be more aggressive.
With Zendikar-Innistrad rotation and the advent of Ixalan, Sultai Snek (Sultai Energy) won the first major tournament: SCG Dallas.
After more or less no-showing some major tournaments, Sultai snek roared back at Pro Tour Ixalan to do well and power a win by Seth Manfield.
Despite being hit hard by the banning of Attune with Aether and Rogue Refiner, Constrictor has been competitive in the Rivals of Ixalan meta. Jadelight Ranger and Hadana's Climb have been effective additions to the decks. There are three variants that have seen some success: one splashing U for Hadana's Climb, one using the Explore Mechanic and another classic GB.
In Dominaria Standard, R and Rb have proved dominant, but there have been occasional successes for Constrictor and non-Constrictor midrange decks.
Cards
Bold indicates core cards.
Walking Ballista: Pro - Gets bigger with snek out, can snipe other creatures, can go to dome, can hit planeswalkers, grows by itself, can fire counters from Rishkar, Nissa or Verdurous; Con - under the curve by itself, expensive activated ability.
1 Drop
Deadeye Tracker - Utility value depending on meta. probably too slow for more aggressive variants
Gnarlwood Dryad: Pro - Deathtouch, above the curve with Delirium; Con - fragile without Delirium.
Greenbelt Rampager: Pro - above the curve, can provide energy and trigger Revolt; Con - not really a 1-drop without energy.
Narnam Renegade: Pro - Deathtouch, above the curve with revolt, always >1 toughness; Con - Revolt is hard to achieve early.
2 Drop
Gifted Aetherborn: Pro - lifelink, deathtouch, cheap, just wins races if not removed; Con - hard to cast T2.
Glint-Sleeve Siphoner: Pro - card advantage; Con - fragile. One of the biggest draws to an energy build.
Kitesail Freebooter: disruption stapled onto an evasive body, but not much of a body.
Longtusk Cub - by itself it's a lame 2/2. But in a heavy energy deck it promises to be at least a 3/3 who can attack and either eat defending creatures or generate more energy. Situationally great.
Ranging Raptors: possible ramp
Scrapheap Scrounger: Pro - hits hard, can be recurred; Con - doesn't block.
Servant of the Conduit - great for ramping to Gearhulk, can be an energy source, but lousy for being a 2/2.
Winding Constrictor: (snek) Pro - decent body that makes +1/+1 counter and energy transactions bigger, almost everything in the deck is improved; Con - not great by itself.
3 Drop
Deathgorge Scavenger: graveyard utility, lifegain relevant against Ramunap Red
Jadelight Ranger: With a Constrictor out, this insane thing dials up to 11. A great value piece that takes over for Rogue Refiner without missing a beat
Manglehorn: Pro - Card and tempo advantage against artifacts; Con - mopey body for the cost
Rhonas the Indomitable: Pro - oversized with Deathtouch, ignores damage and destroy effects, activated ability grants trample and power; Con - Needs another 4 power creature to attack or block, activated ability is expensive. Seems better in energy builds
Rishkar, Peema Renegade: Pro - ramp, counters distributed at will, fabulous with Constrictor, good with Ballista; Con - disappointing on an empty board, legendary means you likely don't want more than 2-3.
Rogue Refiner: So much value!Shapers of Nature - Wow! Abilities are too expensive, but talk about a mana sink in a board stall
Thrashing Brontodon: Above curve with benefits
Yahenni, Undying Partisan: Pro - Haste, counter synergy; Con - conditional.
4 Drop
Bone Picker: Pro - under curve with removal, Deathtouch and flying means that it trades with many creatures including Heart, Push needs revolt to hit it; Con - Undersized at the normal casting cost, dies to Shock and Magma Spray
Bristling Hydra: Pro - with energy can get huge, conditional hexproof; Con - slow
Gonti, Lord of Luxury: Pro - card advantage; Con - slow.
Herald of Secret Streams - potential finisher, but conditional, maybe 1-2 in Sultai sideboards depending on meta
Hostage Taker - Not particularly synergistic and slow, but so much card advantage!
Ravenous Chupacabra: Just good value, but probably foolish to ignore due to lack of synergy.
Ripjaw Raptor - above rate, synergistic with Walking Ballista and Rhonas
Waker of the Wilds - probably too slow. If only it turned the lands into creatures first that wouldn't die to state-based effects
5 Drop
The Scarab God: Midrange mirror breaker, resilient but slow, can take over
Verdurous Gearhulk: Pro - huge, pseudo-haste by putting counters on creatures that are not summoning sick, with Constrictor and multiple targets even huger; Con - without other creatures, can be removed tempo-negatively.
6 Drop
Carnage Tyrant: UR control killer, but is that even relevant?
Noxious Gearhulk: Pro - Card advantage, lifegain, two types for Delirium, menace makes it hard to block; Con - expensive, undersized
Battle at the Bridge: Exiling removal with lifegain! But expensive and sorcery speed. maybe an answer for Hazoret, but yuk.
Fatal Push: Pro - efficient removal; Con - not good against control or 5+ drops, revolt is not necessarily easy to achieve with this deck which makes it hard to hit 3-4 drops.
Harnessed Lightning - With Hub and Attune, an energy build can easily splash red, and play this. Given enough energy, able to kill large creatures.
Hour of Glory: Strong, slow removal. Exiles!
Never // Return: Pro - sorcery helps Delirium, hits Planeswalkers, Return can be useful for a body and to get rid of Scrapheap Scrounger or Dread Wanderer; Con - expensive, hard to cast.
Vraska's Contempt - powerful, versatile and expensive
Walk the Plank - efficient, but a sorcery
Draw, Tutor, Scry
Arguel's Blood Fast - drawing cards is good, right?
Attune with Aether: Pro - fixing, energy enabler; Con - slow and worse late game than Traverse.Lifecrafter's Bestiary: Pro - Cheap card advantage, free scrys; Con - slow, doesn't affect board by itself.
Rishkar's Expertise: Pro - Potentially huge card advantage and mana efficiency; Con - bad without other creatures, win more?
Anti-Interaction (there has got to be a better name for this category!)
Blossoming Defense: Any combination of blow out your removal spell, buff my guy to win combat or escape damage based sweeper for a single G? Seems conditionally good.
Heroic Intervention: Pro - can nullify Fumigate or a removal spell; Con - reactive in a deck that wants to tap out, conditional, not good against untargeted +-X/-Y effects.
Negate: counters sweepers, removal, draw, enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers. Good catchall against noncreature decks
Shaper's Sanctuary: potentially effective against Ramunap Red or high-removal midrange-control decks, not good against sweepers or Settle the Wreckage
Spell Pierce: An uptempo Negate, hard to play around
Disruption
Duress: strong anti-control card, can get under countermagic or provide information before a potentially risky move.
Harsh Scrutiny: Pro - cheap, scry; Con - specialized toward decks that we generally do well against anyway.
Lay Bare the Heart: Pro - gets rid of many things you really care about, can clear path or draw counter to let you resolve what you really want to; Con - can be a bad topdeck. Often in sideboards to bring in against control and combo.
Dispossess: Pro - can hit all copies of
Marvel orTorrential Gearhulk, whether in hand or not; Con - Only hits artifacts. Tempo hit. Card disadvantage if they don't have any in hand. Can be awful to draw in multiples.Lost Legacy: Pro - can hit all copies, whether in hand or not; Con - Not hitting artifacts is a big drawback as you really want to be able to name Torrential Gearhulk. Tempo hit. Card disadvantage if they don't have any in hand.
Specialized Hate
Dissenter's Deliverance: Pro - instant speed, can be cycled; Con - specialized.
Natural Obsolescence: Pro - almost as good as exile; Con - specialized.
Appetite for the Unnatural: Pro - general, instant, lifegain can be surprisingly relevant; Con - slow, hate to use it on recursive creature like Scrounger.
Sorcerous Spyglass: potential hate that shows opponent's hand, could be powerful
Misc Artifacts
Aethersphere Harvester: Pro - Lifelink, Evasion, big butt, can't be targeted by unrevolted Push;Con - Requires another creature to crew.
Sweepers
Hazardous Conditions: Pro - synergistic; Con - slow, not powerful.
Yahenni's Expertise: Pro - Efficient; Con - not particularly useful against current Tier 1 decks.
Planeswalkers
Liliana, Death's Majesty: Pro - powerful, can help with delirium; Con - Expensive, Heart of Kiran.
Disallow.
Nissa, Vital Force: Pro - reaches powerful ultimate quickly, can ramp or be a quick beating for opponent; Con - slow, conditional.
Vraska, Relic Seeker - High loyalty, destroy enchantments, artifacts and creatures? Sure[/cards]
Blooming Marsh: Pro - Great fixing early; Con - not great topdecked.
Botanical Sanctum: Great for a U splash
Evolving Wilds: Pro - Allows better Pushes, improves fixing; Con - comes into play tapped.
Foul Orchard: Always tapped, but what are we doing on turn 1 anyway? Pray for good enemy color duals in Dominaria.
Sideboarding
Dominaria Standard Decklists
Articles, Videos, Etc.
Obsolete Decklists
Rivals Standard Decklists
- Early MTGO 5-0 GB lists: here, here and here.
- This version came in 12th at SCG Dallas Standard Classic
- Sultai Constrictor for second at GP Memphis and a subsequent MTGO 5-0.
- GB Constrictor MTGO 5-0 on 2/26/18
- Sultai Explore Constrictor for an MTGO 5-0 on 2/22/18
- The MOCS championships and published MTGO 5-0s suggest that Sultai Climb (Snakes and Ladders) is competitive and maybe the most competitive version as shown by this, this and this. More classic GB Constrictor has also achieved MTGO 5-0.
Older Obsolete DecklistsObolete Articles, Videos, Etc.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Both of these lists are very strong. Snek really won't lose all that much during rotation and still retains some of its key players. I noticed in your sultai build that you're running more exile affects in your sideboard because your mana base doesn't allow you to run Scavenger Grounds MB. Do you really think it's worth splashing U for The Scarab God? On paper, it looks like the you'd normally spend getting a zombie with the god may be better put to use casting something else, possibly another 4-drop. Plus having another Ripjaw Raptor in the deck instead Scarab can potentially net you more CA. Either way, solid stuff!
I believe in The Scarab God and want to use it as my exile effect rather than Scavenger Grounds. There are other U splash cards that I like: Rogue Refiner, Champion of Wits; but I have trouble taking stuff out. For now, I want to collect ideas and see spoilers.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Forest
3 Foul Orchard
2 Hashep Oasis
3 Swamp
3 Bristling Hydra
1 Dreamstealer
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
2 Ripjaw Raptor
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
2 Aethersphere Harvester
4 Attune with Aether
2 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
2 Walk the Plank
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Interesting that he has 2 Ripjaw Raptor. The body is very significant and can be pinged by Walking Ballista to keep the deck from stalling out. I can't figure out why he decided to go with a singleton Dreamstealer. Sure, it can cripple an opponent's hand later in the game, but that's 1) Only if he's able to find and play it, and 2) Only if he's able to Eternalize it either before he's dead or an opponent somehow exiles it from his GY. I'd rather go with another Raptor over this. Did he post a SB?
I haven't been impressed by Dreamstealer either, but people have done well with it.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I was running the oath of nissa version of aggro but now that plan is gutted so i feel the only version that is viable is the energy version, albeit very weak atm
3x Verdurous Gearhulk
4x Walking Ballista
3x Catacomb Sifter
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Winding Constrictor
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
Not creatures
4x Fatal Push
4x Grasp of Darkness
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Lands
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Hissing Quagmire
9x Forest
7x Swamp
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2x Dispossess
1x Lost Legacy
2x Never
3x Transgress the Mind
3x Yahenni's Expertise
So from this I'm going to change to energy but still need a few replacements
We could splash W for Authority of the Consuls and Cast Out or Skywhaler's Shot. But Splashing is kind of a big deal, I kind of hate Authority and holding up 3-4 mana is bad.
Maybe just accept some damage? A lot of our stuff is resistant. Rhonas doesn't care. Gearhulk can make stuff big. Bristling Hydra can be Hexproof. Ripjaw draws us a card. 5 toughness is the magic number. The Scarab God can take 4. Then we make it Walk the Plank and eternalize it. I don't have anything clean, but I have been playing against Sultai snek in our current meta with Temur and it's pretty even.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Anyway, I've been tinkering with this for the last week or so, as I need a new list cause my RW Humans are no longer a thing. I started at merfolk and then evolved to merge it into existing BG strategies. I'm not on the energy plan at this point, so hopefully this barely Sultai brew will offer another starting point for discussion. Full disclosure: it's not seen game testing yet, just online builder goldfishing (which is pretty smooth). Sadly I don't have time or resources to devote at the moment, but I can't stop myself from making stuff up so this is what you get
4 Botanical Sanctum
3 Fetid Pools
4 Forest
1 Foul Orchard
2 Island
4 Swamp
1 Woodland Stream
2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
3 Blossoming Defense
3 Fatal Push
3 River Heralds' Boon
3 Spell Pierce
4 Deeproot Champion
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1 Shapers of Nature
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
3 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Carnage Tyrant
3 Doomfall
1 Driven // Despair
2 Hour of Glory
3 Negate
1 The Scarab God
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
The board obviously is a wild guess, so don't focus too much on that.
- Main deck it feels like there is good synergy between the couple of merfolk added to round out the usual BG suspects. I've been liking River Heralds' Boon as another source of counters - even with only 9 merfolk in the deck it rarely lacks both targets, and it's amazing with snek and/or Deeproot Champion out.
- The random Shapers of Nature is there to be a mana sink & to add counters synergy, and is an extra fish to make Boon work better. That spot could be a lot of other things but I like Shapers right now.
- Lifecrafter's Bestiary is fantastic. Even just vs the goldfish I can see how much work it does to make things run smoothly. I have considered Shapers' Sanctuary in that spot, but for me the scry just makes Bestiary better.
- The obvious exclusion is Herald of Secret Streams. It feels like a card that really requires gameplay and a better understanding of the meta to evaluate properly, and since I'm not at that point I don't want to plug it in yet.
Is it as good as an energy list? I honestly don't know. This is just the direction my brewing took me. Critique away!In the short term I aim to update my G/B/W energy-combo deck:
4x Aethergeode Miner
2x Bristling Hydra
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
2x Longtusk Cub
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Walking Ballista
4x Winding Constrictor
Artifact (10)
2x Aethersphere Harvester
2x Animation Module
3x Decoction Module
3x Fabrication Module
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Concealed Courtyard
2x Evolving Wilds
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
Sorcery (6)
4x Attune with Aether
1x Driven
1x Yahenni's Expertise
1x Destined
1x Gryff's Boon
2x Authority of the Consuls
1x Bristling Hydra
2x Fatal Push
2x Fragmentize
2x Lost Legacy
2x Prepare
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Transgress the Mind
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gbw-infinite-constrictor/
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I have been playing Temur-base 5 color energy, but I don't want to be playing damage-based removal against Ripjaw. I would rather play with the Ballista-Ripjaw combo and be using destroy-based removal on Ripjaws.
Decks/cards that I am concerned with:
Edit: Interesting article on Star City by Jadine Klomparens focusing on straight BG for week 1. But no Ripjaws?!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Winding Constrictor
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Bellowing Aegisaur
4 Walking Ballista
3 Fatal Push
3 Walk the Plank
2 Ixalan's Binding
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Swamp
6 Forest
1 Plains
3 Sentinel Totem
3 Authority of the Consuls
3 Harsh Scrutiny
2 Fragmentize
2 Cast Out
2 Carnage Tyrant
I added white because Authority of the Consuls is probably the best way to counter Ramunap Red. Ixalan's Binding and Cast Out are good against Gods and planeswalkers. Vraska's Contempt might be better though.
I also wanted to try out the combo with Bellowing Aegisaur.
The Enrage Dinos seem to line up well against Red as well given their high toughness and probably against Temur's thopter chumping. Ripjaw Raptor also doesn't die to Glorybringer and Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
Sentinel Totems for Gift. Harsh Scrutiny for Gods, Carnage Tyrant, etc. Carnage Tyrant for Control. Fragmentize for any possible flipping enchantment shenanigans.
Would Authority of the Consuls be good against Temur because it works well against their thopters and Glorybringer?
I noticed that recent GB Constrictor decks haven't been running the full playset of Verdurous Gearhulk. Is there a specific reason for this? Would it be better to switch out a couple for something like Nissa, Vital Force or Liliana, Death's Majesty?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Looking at something like this too. The blue versions just aren't worth tuning blue. B/g is still better than BUG.
I'll try some BGW today and let you guys know. Also I wanna try a jund build
Genuinely curious: what about blue makes it worse than white or red?
It can't be the mana base, cause I'd expect you're going to run into issues no matter what 3 colours you want to run. Have you found that blue doesn't have enough of an impact to make it worthwhile? If that's the case, what do white or red bring to the table that is better?
I'm currently looking to test a G/bu list (a few posts up) but if I've missed better cards in other colours I'd be interested in knowing.
Thanks!
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
3 Forest
1 Hashep Oasis
2 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Island
2 Swamp
Spells (12)
4 Attune with Aether
1 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
3 Vraska's Contempt
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Walking Ballista
4 Winding Constrictor
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Rogue Refiner
1 Ripjaw Raptor
1 Bristling Hydra
1 Hostage Taker
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 The Scarab God
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Negate
3 Duress
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
2 Never // Return
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Sentinel Totem
The instant speed suite of cards comes in at a Blossoming Defense to keep my opponents on guard, 4 Fatal Push for any Aggro, and Vraska's Contempt to deal with much of what anyone can throw at us. It's got 4-7 cards dead against various Control, but that's always been the case. I'm not sure how well Control will survive though with Shapers' Sanctuary and Carnage Tyrant around. Main things I'm looking to deal with are Runamap Red, Temur Black Energy, God-Pharaoh's Gift, and some flavor of Dinos.
The creature core is based on the 4 of Winding Constrictor, Longtusk Cub, Walking Ballista, and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner. They've been a part of this deck since the inception and I don't think I'm ready to cut any of it. 4 Rogue Refiner coming with the deck once it's gone blue feels mandatory as well. This core alone is plenty capable of winning games via all the interactions and card advantage I can accrue. Now come the one of cards I'm just not certain of and need more than the 15 or so games of testing I've already done to decide whether I'm keeping them that way. The deck feels un-optimized with them there, but I'm not sure which way I want to proceed. Rishkar, Peema Renegade provides more +1/+1 counter support and can dump the deck into the field more effective with the mana ramp, Ripjaw Raptor feels like it has a place here with it's body and Enrage shenanigans, and Bristling Hydra has always been one of the more difficult to deal with cards in any Green based energy deck often ending games on the spot against Control. Hostage Taker is a great 1 for 1 or 3 for 1 when it works right. It either forces an answer or goes to the skies in card advantage. Also a funny way to deal with an artifact in the main board. Verdurous Gearhulk will end games if Constrictor is out or even it if isn't can spread out a bunch of power into play so it's definitely the primary 5 drop. Of course The Scarab God will flat out win games on his own against any other grindy deck that can't deal with him. This card is the reason you can beat dinos in a ground stall.
My sideboard feels horrible. It's got anti-graveyard, anti-control, anti-combo, anti-creature, anti-artifact, and anti-enchantment but it doesn't feel like it fits with what I'd side out yet. I've been super impressed with Shapers' Sanctuary though. The rest I think needs tweaking up or down, but without really knowing the meta and without enough experience yet I'm unsure which direction.
Misunderstanding. I didn't mean red or white is better. I mean just sticking to black/green is better.
This is the list I've been trying as well. I found out I had to have rhonas for the trample or I just couldn't win against a lot of decks. They would stall me out and I could push thru. The refiner is less than optimal. He doesn't do much imo. Less of him is always better imo.
I have been playing the white combo version but it is very clunky. The glorybound inniate isn't where we wanna be. Also been trying a jund version which either gets blown out or does the stomping
Whoops. I read your comment about BG being better than BUG, and your follow-up about wanting to try versions with W and R, and took that to mean that one of those combinations would be better than with U. Clearly the caffeine hadn't kicked in properly...
Your latest post suggests that haven't been too impressed with either of W or R builds. Sounds like sticking to BG is likely the best course of action for now.
Maybe I'll switch out the Initiates with Drover of the Mighty. I'm also considering Tocatli Honor Guard after reading the channelfireball article on hate cards.
The landbase is definitely going to evolve after some playtesting.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
So basically very aggressive, plenty of removal for little stuff, and Coup to take care of big problem creatures.
4 Fatal Push
2 Confiscation Coup
4 Greenbelt Rampager
2 Heart of Kiran
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Walking Ballista
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
2 Bristling Hydra
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Aether Hub
2 Swamp
4 Forest
2 Island
3 Duress
2 Spell Pierce
2 Essence Scatter
2 Driven/Despair
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Skysovereign Consul Flagship
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
In the games where it matters, why Spell Pierce over Negate? How often will that 1 mana on your end make a difference, and how often will they "tap out" while you don't have the requisite mana open? If you're aggro, you don't hold up mana early game, so this is a later game counterspell. Or is the thought that this is a hold up against T4/T5 wrath where you can still have mana up for a creature post-combat?
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Random poll for the group. Shapers' Sanctuary or Lifecrafter's Bestiary? And why?
Maybe I just like a challenge.
I definitely didn't just completely miss those interactions. lol