It's an interesting question. I am so afraid of whiffing.
Also relevant is that my one loss on Monday was to Angrath. I have added some answers to planeswalkers since, but Incongruity would help. Bedevil in a Vannifar manabases seems like a fantasy.
Did you add an Assassin's Trophy or Vraska's Contempt? Or did you go the Eldest Reborn / Plaguescrafter route? Thankfully, G/B pretty much gobbles up planeswalkers.
It's an interesting question. I am so afraid of whiffing.
Also relevant is that my one loss on Monday was to Angrath. I have added some answers to planeswalkers since, but Incongruity would help. Bedevil in a Vannifar manabases seems like a fantasy.
Did you add an Assassin's Trophy or Vraska's Contempt? Or did you go the Eldest Reborn / Plaguescrafter route? Thankfully, G/B pretty much gobbles up planeswalkers.
The latest list I posted above has a Plaguecrafter and The Eldest Reborn. I used the Deckbuilder feature, so I can easily add it to my sig.
I am considering an Assassin's Trophy and a Vraska's Contempt also, but what to cut?
Saffron Olive goes 5-0 in a league with a Sultai Vannifar deck that includes Journey to Eternity, Biogenic Ooze and Quasiduplicate here.
@tulun - and Naban can even double the ETB effects. Lots of bounce effects, some card draw. The spell-based effects seem challenging to balance with the creature density, although Quasiduplicate could be really spicy. I'm not clear enough about your plan to comment intelligently, even if I want to encourage experimentation.
That version seems quite intriguing. Can you share some details about how it is working? What decks is it beating? What is it struggling with?
Stony Strength has been a really good card for me. To Pod twice in a turn is usually gamebreaking. Krasis hydroïde helps a lot to refuel a hand, gain some life again those red aggro decks. Dagger Caster also helps against all the 2/1 creatures which are around.
Usually I use the Azor, the Lawbringer when I have the board, but afraid of a removal. This way, I keep the board a turn longer, which is usually enough.
I'm struggling with board sweepers, but Krasis helps.
1. i want to put Pelakka Wurm to curve for End-Raze Forerunners to test but not for today.
2. Sometimes i miss some spot remove, sometimes counters, idk what line to follow.
After some playing around, I found out that I like having 4x growth-chamber guardians in the main as well as a huge assortment of 3/4 drop utilities. You can get multiple uses out of a cast with the fetching. I am running about 65-75% wins atm on arena but I do get *****-smoked by red. Lava coil is everywhere it seems.
1) Bant is very resilient, as expected. Between the life gain of the explore package, Knight of Autumn, and deputies of detention, I didn't find it too hard to take a few rounds on the chin while I built up my board. It was easy to disrupt their plans too.
2) Hexproof is awesome (Shalai).
3) I really like Zegana in the 4 slot. Not only is she easily a cantrip w/ Explore creatures, she also can be an 8/8 finisher. At worst, you can just upgrade her for Lyra or Oozes, but she's a threat on her own.
4) This deck has real value 4 drops, might need a couple more ones I'd be willing to wood chipper to Vannifar.
Overall, really fun. I think control would still be my worst matchup, so the sideboard should reflect this (Dive downs, Carnage Tyrants, Unbreakable Formations, maybe Tithe Taker). I think mid range and aggro is a decent matchup for Bant overall.
Has anyone gone up Bant vs Phoenixes yet? It seems amusing to me to trap the lot in prison.
That version seems quite intriguing. Can you share some details about how it is working? What decks is it beating? What is it struggling with?
Stony Strength has been a really good card for me. To Pod twice in a turn is usually gamebreaking. Krasis hydroïde helps a lot to refuel a hand, gain some life again those red aggro decks. Dagger Caster also helps against all the 2/1 creatures which are around.
Usually I use the Azor, the Lawbringer when I have the board, but afraid of a removal. This way, I keep the board a turn longer, which is usually enough.
I'm struggling with board sweepers, but Krasis helps.
Stony Strength also doubles up as protection for Vannifar against Lava Coil. I was unsure if it was enough value otherwise, though. How many copies do you run?
I'm aware that in Bant the Explore package is quite powerful but is there any other alternatives? I understand the need for a an answer to aggro but it's such a boring set of cards to run, imo of course.
I'm aware that in Bant the Explore package is quite powerful but is there any other alternatives? I understand the need for a an answer to aggro but it's such a boring set of cards to run, imo of course.
Sure, if you think you don't need the Explore package, you could look at Growth-Chamber Guardian or more ramp with Incubation Druid. With black, Dusk Legion Zealot cantrips. At the 3 spot, Militia Bugler, Skittering Surveyer, District Guide and Elvish Rejuvenator are options that offer intriguing trade-offs.
I look forward to seeing your version and hearing how your choices work.
Edit: Riley Knight & co present a Temur Vannifar deck here. They use it in a video here. They describe the deck as a starting point, with which I agree.
Hmm I'm still trying to hammer out a decent list seeing as how it can very so much. Though I know the 3 spot will be some number of Knight of Autumn, Deputy, and Bugler.
The awkward spot for me is the 4 drops. At the moment then only decent ones that comes to mind are Shalai and Zegana. Not counting Vannifar. Though I may not need more in retrospect.
I don't see a reason to go higher than 5 CMC. Seems like Lyra and Ooze will close out the game fairly easily.
Hmm I'm still trying to hammer out a decent list seeing as how it can very so much. Though I know the 3 spot will be some number of Knight of Autumn, Deputy, and Bugler.
The awkward spot for me is the 4 drops. At the moment then only decent ones that comes to mind are Shalai and Zegana. Not counting Vannifar. Though I may not need more in retrospect.
I don't see a reason to go higher than 5 CMC. Seems like Lyra and Ooze will close out the game fairly easily.
For Bant, the four slot is a bit weak compared to Temur or Sultai. But we have a few options. Shalai isn't really something you wanna sac per se, although not including 1-2 seems *nuts* to me. It's such good value, as it forces your enemy to waste removal on it without a sweeper.
Riverwise Augur is decent in the 4 slot, though, as is mentioned above Tempest Caller. Conclave Cavalier is great, but the only thing that sucks is it might be a bit hard to hardcast if you get it into your hand. I don't think Zagana is so good as a sac target without having explore, though, as you aren't so likely to have +1/+1 counters for the cantrip (although she is a decent finisher).
You could also just go for powerful 4 drops that you don't care about saccing like Vine Mare. It really just depends on the rest of your deck, to be honest.
Looking through my Arena Collection, I came across another few options. I am pretty psyched about Territorial Allosaurus, as I believe we can pay the kicker with mana on ETB after podding into it. On Christmas, I imagine an opponent tapped out with a creature of <5 power and <=5 toughness. This seems pretty good for non-black builds without such great 4 mana options. It also seems pretty appealing for dinosaur builds. Never mind.
I also realized that Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar can be brought back from the bin after being sacced, which seems like a decent 6 on the way to Pelakka Wurm.
In terms of a 7 drop, I feel this is pretty meh. ETB effect sure, but a 7 drop should be a game ender. This probably doesn't do that. I think Pekkala Wurm is much better.
Did you add an Assassin's Trophy or Vraska's Contempt? Or did you go the Eldest Reborn / Plaguescrafter route? Thankfully, G/B pretty much gobbles up planeswalkers.
Mistcaller
Thankfully probably too narrow to see play.
I am considering an Assassin's Trophy and a Vraska's Contempt also, but what to cut?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Think it depends if you're doing BO1 or Bo3. It's probably a sideboard card unless you're really convinced / scared of Walkers in general.
Could a *wizard* tribal (roughly, I think we can cheat a little) work here for a 4-5 colour deck?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&format= [%22Standard%22]&subtype=+[%22Wizard%22]
There are absolutely *loads* of good wizards with ETB effects, and Prime Speaker Vannifar is a wizard.
We could cheat it a bit, as some of the lower cost creatures (say, Incubation Druid, Wildgrowth Walker, Merfolk Branchwalker) could easily be included.
We could leverage Unclaimed Territory and Pillar of Origins to get any color mana, along with including 1-2 Chromatic Lantern. Then it'd just be fixing the land base to be able to hard cast any of the really tough spells we want like Rekindling Phoenix.
I think this deck is a bit crazier, but it might be fun *with* the right mix of stuff.
@tulun - and Naban can even double the ETB effects. Lots of bounce effects, some card draw. The spell-based effects seem challenging to balance with the creature density, although Quasiduplicate could be really spicy. I'm not clear enough about your plan to comment intelligently, even if I want to encourage experimentation.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Stony Strength has been a really good card for me. To Pod twice in a turn is usually gamebreaking.
Krasis hydroïde helps a lot to refuel a hand, gain some life again those red aggro decks.
Dagger Caster also helps against all the 2/1 creatures which are around.
Usually I use the Azor, the Lawbringer when I have the board, but afraid of a removal. This way, I keep the board a turn longer, which is usually enough.
I'm struggling with board sweepers, but Krasis helps.
Today i'll try an sutai list for showdown, not totally certain, but need to test it. The list is something like this if i remember all cards:
4 Incubation Druid
4 Thief of Sanity
2 Mirror Image
3 Frilled Mystic
2 Hostage Taker
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
4 Biogenic ooze
2 Dream Eater
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
3 Quasiduplicate
1. i want to put Pelakka Wurm to curve for End-Raze Forerunners to test but not for today.
2. Sometimes i miss some spot remove, sometimes counters, idk what line to follow.
I'n open for any critic/feedback
Won handily. Stray observations:
1) Bant is very resilient, as expected. Between the life gain of the explore package, Knight of Autumn, and deputies of detention, I didn't find it too hard to take a few rounds on the chin while I built up my board. It was easy to disrupt their plans too.
2) Hexproof is awesome (Shalai).
3) I really like Zegana in the 4 slot. Not only is she easily a cantrip w/ Explore creatures, she also can be an 8/8 finisher. At worst, you can just upgrade her for Lyra or Oozes, but she's a threat on her own.
4) This deck has real value 4 drops, might need a couple more ones I'd be willing to wood chipper to Vannifar.
Overall, really fun. I think control would still be my worst matchup, so the sideboard should reflect this (Dive downs, Carnage Tyrants, Unbreakable Formations, maybe Tithe Taker). I think mid range and aggro is a decent matchup for Bant overall.
Has anyone gone up Bant vs Phoenixes yet? It seems amusing to me to trap the lot in prison.
Stony Strength also doubles up as protection for Vannifar against Lava Coil. I was unsure if it was enough value otherwise, though. How many copies do you run?
I look forward to seeing your version and hearing how your choices work.
Edit: Riley Knight & co present a Temur Vannifar deck here. They use it in a video here. They describe the deck as a starting point, with which I agree.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
The awkward spot for me is the 4 drops. At the moment then only decent ones that comes to mind are Shalai and Zegana. Not counting Vannifar. Though I may not need more in retrospect.
I don't see a reason to go higher than 5 CMC. Seems like Lyra and Ooze will close out the game fairly easily.
For Bant, the four slot is a bit weak compared to Temur or Sultai. But we have a few options. Shalai isn't really something you wanna sac per se, although not including 1-2 seems *nuts* to me. It's such good value, as it forces your enemy to waste removal on it without a sweeper.
Riverwise Augur is decent in the 4 slot, though, as is mentioned above Tempest Caller. Conclave Cavalier is great, but the only thing that sucks is it might be a bit hard to hardcast if you get it into your hand. I don't think Zagana is so good as a sac target without having explore, though, as you aren't so likely to have +1/+1 counters for the cantrip (although she is a decent finisher).
You could also just go for powerful 4 drops that you don't care about saccing like Vine Mare. It really just depends on the rest of your deck, to be honest.
Probably a bit less good are cards like: Bishop of Binding, Civic Stalwart, Dwarven Priest, Frilled Mystic, Golgari Raiders, mperial Aerosaur, Storm Sculptor, World Shaper
Its good to turn an Druid (if we dont need on a Thief of Sanity (a must answer card) or a Plaguecrafter
Frilled Mystic and Ravenous Chupacabra turn in a Biogenic Ooze is good move.
Not totally sold on Dream Eater. Muldrotha was too good on Play chupa, sac chupa replay chupa.
Next time i intend to test the Pelakka Wurm curve to End-Raze Forerunners and some Vampire sovereign (have too many monored's for here).
Maybe ill try some bant build too, have good tools to try on
Looking through my Arena Collection, I came across another few options. I am pretty psyched about Territorial Allosaurus, as I believe we can pay the kicker with mana on ETB after podding into it. On Christmas, I imagine an opponent tapped out with a creature of <5 power and <=5 toughness. This seems pretty good for non-black builds without such great 4 mana options. It also seems pretty appealing for dinosaur builds.Never mind.I also realized that Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar can be brought back from the bin after being sacced, which seems like a decent 6 on the way to Pelakka Wurm.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
In terms of a 7 drop, I feel this is pretty meh. ETB effect sure, but a 7 drop should be a game ender. This probably doesn't do that. I think Pekkala Wurm is much better.
i like Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar btw ... even as Izoni my other try