I appreciate the discussion on this thread a lot. I've been toying with a Naya Blue control-ish deck. It's had some awesome success against Golgari and Red decks but is pretty weak to control. The sideboard is meant to address that issue but it was built in the maindeck to combat Aggro and Mid-Range decks.
@D90Dennis
I think the Fight with Fire suggestion is a good one. The fact that it can be early game removal that kills pretty much everything while ALSO being a late-game win condition is exactly what I was looking for. I'll be adding it to my list pronto.
One thing that I like about blue, in addition to Card Draw and Countermagic in the Board, is [CARD}The Mirari Conjecture[/CARD] and Planeswalkers. Being able to recycle our spell-based ramp and win conditions is excellent and the doubling effect on the third chapter could be really strong with March of the Multitudes or Banefire. And with the amount of board sweepers that we have there's a really good chance that our Planeswalkers can actually ultimate while supplementing the removal and card draw weaknesses of Ramp decks. The list that I've been toying with is below.
Settle the Wreckage is because it's an instant speed wrath effect that we can get back with The Mirari Conjecture and because it's a decent Wrath effect at a great CMC. Lava Coil is one of the best removal effects in the format because it exiles things. Gift of Paradise is crucial for the R/x Aggro decks because it advances us to our late game spells and Wrath effects while also providing a life gain buffer that is absolutely necessary. Seeing multiples of that card single-handedly wins me games on MTG Arena. Cleansing Nova is a concession to Golgari decks and f-ing Carnage Tyrant. I both love and hate that card... It also hits, very importantly, The Eldest Reborn. Ral is actually a very awesome 'Walker in the deck because it draws cards, kills any straggler creatures, and his ultimate rewards us simply for playing our deck. Teferi probably doesn't need too much of an explanation, but he's awesome. Chemister's Insight is quite possibly my favorite card in the whole block because you're essentially running 8 copies of it. Jump-Starting surplus lands or redundant removal effects is a godsend to the deck and helps us to keep drawing live cards. Expansion // Explosion is great because it can double our Ramp, Removal, AND Card draw effects while also being a late-game finisher and Card Draw steroid. I've been particularly pleased with The Mirari Conjecture. In one game, I was able to get its third chapter live and ready with March of the Multitudes. 14 1/1 Lifelinking Tokens later, my opponent conceded as I could simply turn all of them sideways every turn and overwhelm whatever damage output he/she could produce. Lifelink is probably one of THE most important abilities in this current Standard format, in my opinion. If Azorius receives a Hexproof Lifelinking creature, we'll see the rise of Control decks to dominate Standard.
The sideboard is geared mostly towards the Control matchup, which, quite frankly, sucks. Thankfully, the X spells that I've been playing are all instant speed so I can try and outmaneuver Control decks during their end step. Being creatureless has been really important in turning off their removal and giving us virtual card advantage. And what's really nice is that they usually let our Ramp spells resolve, figuring that they counter whatever we are trying to ramp into. And Zacama is in the sideboard because it's a freaking dinosaur that wins games all by itself. I imagine that most decks will board out their creature removal in favor of other things and ramping into Zacama seems like it would break any Aggro or Mid-Range opponent in half.
I'm wondering if there is a way to mainboard some Countermagic, but I think that's being a little too greedy. I like the current iteration and wins pretty decently whenever MTG Arena decides not to mana screw me. I've lost more games to computer generated mana screw than anything else, so that indicates to me that the deck would be solid in real life. I could be totally wrong about that though.
I've been having quite a bit of success with my Naya Blue list. Having the Blue makes it a little easier to draw into my late game spells while also opening up some very interesting sideboard options.
The new list that I've been playing with now looks like this. It has gone entirely creatureless so as to blank out as much of my opponent's removal as possible.
Because the deck is creatureless, I imagine that my opponents will side out all of their removal which opens them up to getting overwhelmed by Zacama and/or Carnage Tyrant. The mainboard Burn spells have been more than sufficient in killing my opponents; in fact, I'm thinking about upping the Banefire count to the full 4.
I recently played against a Golgari Mid-Range variant and smashed it. It's amazing how quickly this deck can get to 9 mana to kick Fight with Fire and kill opponents' Planeswalkers and creatures. The card I've been most impressed with is Azor's Gateway. That card is the real deal, people. Against the Control matchup, you pretty much auto-win as long as you can keep a Banefire in hand. I was playing against Jeskai Control on MTG Arena and cast the Gateway on T2. I had several of my spells countered until I flipped the Gateway into a Banefire for 23. Easiest win I've ever had.
This has become my preferred deck on MTG Arena. I feel like it doesn't have any terrible matchups out of the gate with the exception of Mono Red because Aggro Burn is just really good against a durdly kinda do nothing deck.
I think that playing a true 4-Color decks with such a heavy white splash is a bit too heavy on the mana (without Chromatic Lantern) so maybe doing without white completely could be an option (or just a micro splash for Deafening Clarion and Ixalan's Binding in the SB and no Nova/Wreckage).
Azor's Gateway is not bad but the ramp aspect is a bit questionable imho as you will take quite a bit of damage and just playing more ramp cards
(Grow from the Ashes/Chromatic Lantern/Elvish Rejuvenator) will get you the necessary mana for a lethal burn spell without having to flip this.
I'd rather play Search for Azcanta + Ral, Izzet Viceroy as my filtering/card advantage engines and Ral is a good finisher and has a useful removal ability a well.
Some other possible PW options can be Jaya Ballard (very good with the burn spells) and Chandra, Bold Pyromancer (a bit questionable but ramps and has a great Ult' ability which is rather quick to get to).
Another powerful card which can be played in the deck is Nexus of Fate which even without building around can help the deck pull ahead getting an extra turn from time to time.
I've also dropped Thaumatic Compass which I've liked in most of my ramp decks and it was a good way to answers big threats which didn't die to (an un-kicked) Fight with Fire.
@D90Dennis
I tried using Ral in my list and i found that he died far too frequently for my tastes. Mostly I was just tired of turning on The Eldest Reborn for my opponents, as trying to face an opposing Ral without a Banefire sucks. Perhaps it's just MTG Arena that's doing me wrong, but I've been having trouble recently drawing my Wrath effects on time. Honestly, I haven't been very impressed with The Mirari Conjecture lately. I think I might try Ral again and see if it makes a difference. i think Ral is objectively better than The Conjecture if he can Ultimate.
Jaya Ballard is a cool idea. There's a good chunk of Red mana in the deck so casting her on time shouldn't be too hard. Her ramp effect is relevant and her card filtering effect is very important as well. The more I think about it, the more I like her as a testing idea.
If you look at where Jeskai Control decks are going now, they are now playing 3-4 copies of Azor's Gateway and 4 copies of Expansion // Explosion being able to dump a bajillion mana into a draw spell is great. Explosion is probably the most important spell in the deck since you can feasibly cast it for x=3 or x=4 and kill their creature that they cast after you've Wrathed the board the turn previous. Every time I cast that spell I turn the corner and ALWAYS win. I think I'm actually going to cut The Conjectures in favor of upping the Explosion counts. I might try Sanguine Sacrament just for kicks as well, since gaining 14 life seems pretty good as a way to buy time.
You know, I've had the same idea with adding Countermagic main deck. I just don't think that it fits what the deck is trying to do, since I want to be tapping out pretty much every turn to either clear the board, kill creatures, or Ramp. But, it's still attractive to think about.
Either way, this deck has been a ton of fun. It's my favorite deck to play currently and I like how I can have an EDH type of game in Standard. Hard Casting Zacama is still a ton of fun.
I'm still unsure about Lightning Strike in this deck but that is probably as i mainly see control and midrange decks against which it is weak.
Though maybe I should have another instant like: Blink of an Eye, Anticipate or even Negate instead.
Glad that you're liking the changes. Having early game removal is important but there aren't any good options in Temur colors besides what you're already playing. Perhaps upping the count on Lava Coil? Or adding Expansion // Explosion? I really like the idea of looping REcollect and The Mirari Conjecture. That's awesome value and reminds of Commander style plays. And whenever you can bring in that kind of recursive value you're probably going to win the game.
Several questions for you. Do you think that there's a substantial difference between Gift of Paradise and Grow from the Ashes? I have found the life-gain relevant against Aggro decks and it does open up more colors and spells to play with outside of the Temur colors.
Which leads me to my next question: have you missed the White Wrath effects in Deafening Clarion and Settle the Wreckage? They seem pivotal in turning the corner against Aggro matches and dealing with Carnage Tyrant (for Settle specifically).
Have you considered running Pelakka Wurm? I just recently put it in for a few games and it's been performing admirably. rades with Carnage Tyrant while also significantly padding our life total to get our of Burn range.
I'm personally looking forward to see what the new Gruul and Simic cards bring to the Standard pool.
Do you think that there's a substantial difference between Gift of Paradise and Grow from the Ashes?
I have found the life-gain relevant against Aggro decks and it does open up more colors and spells to play with outside of the Temur colors.
Which leads me to my next question: have you missed the White Wrath effects in Deafening Clarion and Settle the Wreckage? They seem pivotal in turning the corner against Aggro matches and dealing with Carnage Tyrant (for Settle specifically).
Have you considered running Pelakka Wurm? I just recently put it in for a few games and it's been performing admirably, trades with Carnage Tyrant while also significantly padding our life total to get out of Burn range.
# I run both as the lifegain + fixing is important with Gift while Grow has more ramp potential with the kicker (and also puts the land/s untapped) while counting as a sorcery in the GY for Azcanta/Ral/Mirari.
# I have Clarion in my SB and I also pack River's Rebuke over Nova/Settle to not splash heavier into white (or lean too much on Gift for fixing).
# I run 2x Wurms in my SB and also like them in the aggro matchups.
Do you think that there's a substantial difference between Gift of Paradise and Grow from the Ashes?
I have found the life-gain relevant against Aggro decks and it does open up more colors and spells to play with outside of the Temur colors.
Which leads me to my next question: have you missed the White Wrath effects in Deafening Clarion and Settle the Wreckage? They seem pivotal in turning the corner against Aggro matches and dealing with Carnage Tyrant (for Settle specifically).
Have you considered running Pelakka Wurm? I just recently put it in for a few games and it's been performing admirably, trades with Carnage Tyrant while also significantly padding our life total to get out of Burn range.
# I run both as the lifegain + fixing is important with Gift while Grow has more ramp potential with the kicker (and also puts the land/s untapped) while counting as a sorcery in the GY for Azcanta/Ral/Mirari.
# I have Clarion in my SB and I also pack River's Rebuke over Nova/Settle to not splash heavier into white (or lean too much on Gift for fixing).
# I run 2x Wurms in my SB and also like them in the aggro matchups.
All he wants to return with recollect is mirari to loop it. Thus Nature's Spiral is the better choice as it costs less. Not sure how you don't see the logic behind this. If he's looking to bring back sorceries and instants, then he has conjecture for that.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
I don't see how any of them would be any good so it'll just end up as a bad gimmick.
Wouldn't be a gimmick. Being short-sighted about doesn't necessarily help either...considering there are other cards significantly worse those mentioned.
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"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
I don't see how any of them would be any good so it'll just end up as a bad gimmick.
Wouldn't be a gimmick. Being short-sighted about doesn't necessarily help either...considering there are other cards significantly worse those mentioned.
Do you care to elaborate on how you think those cards can make a good deck and throw in a rough decklist as an example ?
Also, which of the cards mentioned here do you consider worse than these two ?
I have to be honest, I'm finding the add blue / four color suggestions to be a bit lackluster. I don't really see the point of trying to be more 'control like'. If the aim is to play Ral Zarek and Tefari then just cut the green and play jeskai control, heck one of the lists here only ran green just to play 7 ramp spells where there should be 7 counter spells. The other option is to cut red and play bant turbo fog instead. The point of ramp is to be the bigger better midrange deck, not to be a tier 2 control deck.
I wouldn't say it is a worse control deck as it is a distinctly a ramp deck and having sorceries over creatures as win-cons is actually more reliable to dodge all the removal in the format.
Having card advantage (Azcanta, Ral, Mirari, Chemister's, Recollect) to back up the ramp only makes the plan more consistent and all the removal lets you get to the stage of the game when you can 1-shot the opponent.
Also, Ral is a backup win-con in this deck with its Ult' ability.
# Treasure Map + Azor's Gateway are probably not good enough for a ramp deck as they offer some very minimal card filtering and slow ramp.
# Not playing Gift of Paradise/Elvish Rejuvenator is probably wrong as well.
# Zacama is powerful but inconsistent (can rot in hand too long) and some decks don't really care about it and it gets removed immediately for not enough value so it could be a 1x-of SB card at best unfortunetly.
# Trostani Discordant seems out of place in a ramp deck (might as well be Siege-Gang Commander) and I'd remove it entirely.
# Star of Extinction should either be moved to the SB (for PW's) ot cut out entirely with Cleansing Nova doing largely the same for less mana. Fight with Fire can at least go to the face and remove creatures in the early turns and thats why I prefer it.
After taking in these new ideas here is my updated build of the deck:
# I'm trying out Elvish Rejuvenator over Gift of Paradise as the lifegain is less necessary with March (and the lifelink tokens) and it can help with convoking March and thinning the deck of lands even more (and finding Arch).
# I've decided that Thrashing Brontodon/Knight of Autumn don't really do enough for the deck and decided to replace them with Deathgorge Scavenger which can also gain some life but also helps eat away GY's which is good against Golgari and Izzet Drakes and also pressures control decks.
# I'm still not sure if Ixalan's Binding or Cleansing Nova should be be the maindeck card (or maybe Deafening Clarion should be in the SB ?).
# I've put in a Lyra as well though it might be the 4th Carnage Tyrant to board in against control/midrange.
@D90Dennis
I think the Fight with Fire suggestion is a good one. The fact that it can be early game removal that kills pretty much everything while ALSO being a late-game win condition is exactly what I was looking for. I'll be adding it to my list pronto.
One thing that I like about blue, in addition to Card Draw and Countermagic in the Board, is [CARD}The Mirari Conjecture[/CARD] and Planeswalkers. Being able to recycle our spell-based ramp and win conditions is excellent and the doubling effect on the third chapter could be really strong with March of the Multitudes or Banefire. And with the amount of board sweepers that we have there's a really good chance that our Planeswalkers can actually ultimate while supplementing the removal and card draw weaknesses of Ramp decks. The list that I've been toying with is below.
4x Gift of Paradise
3x Circuitous Route
1x Grow from the Ashes
Removal (14)
3x Lava Coil
4x Deafening Clarion
3x Fight with Fire
2x Cleansing Nova
2x Settle the Wreckage
Card Draw (4)
4x Chemister's Insight
Win Conditions (10)
2x The Mirari Conjecture
2x Expansion // Explosion
1x March of the Multitudes
3x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2x Ral, Izzet Viceroy
4x Temple Garden
3x Sunpetal Grove
4x Steam Vents
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Selesnya Guildgate
2x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Zacama, Primal Calamity
2x Banefire
4x Carnage Tyrant
4x Negate
3x Disdainful Stroke
1x Lava Coil
Settle the Wreckage is because it's an instant speed wrath effect that we can get back with The Mirari Conjecture and because it's a decent Wrath effect at a great CMC. Lava Coil is one of the best removal effects in the format because it exiles things. Gift of Paradise is crucial for the R/x Aggro decks because it advances us to our late game spells and Wrath effects while also providing a life gain buffer that is absolutely necessary. Seeing multiples of that card single-handedly wins me games on MTG Arena. Cleansing Nova is a concession to Golgari decks and f-ing Carnage Tyrant. I both love and hate that card... It also hits, very importantly, The Eldest Reborn. Ral is actually a very awesome 'Walker in the deck because it draws cards, kills any straggler creatures, and his ultimate rewards us simply for playing our deck. Teferi probably doesn't need too much of an explanation, but he's awesome. Chemister's Insight is quite possibly my favorite card in the whole block because you're essentially running 8 copies of it. Jump-Starting surplus lands or redundant removal effects is a godsend to the deck and helps us to keep drawing live cards. Expansion // Explosion is great because it can double our Ramp, Removal, AND Card draw effects while also being a late-game finisher and Card Draw steroid. I've been particularly pleased with The Mirari Conjecture. In one game, I was able to get its third chapter live and ready with March of the Multitudes. 14 1/1 Lifelinking Tokens later, my opponent conceded as I could simply turn all of them sideways every turn and overwhelm whatever damage output he/she could produce. Lifelink is probably one of THE most important abilities in this current Standard format, in my opinion. If Azorius receives a Hexproof Lifelinking creature, we'll see the rise of Control decks to dominate Standard.
The sideboard is geared mostly towards the Control matchup, which, quite frankly, sucks. Thankfully, the X spells that I've been playing are all instant speed so I can try and outmaneuver Control decks during their end step. Being creatureless has been really important in turning off their removal and giving us virtual card advantage. And what's really nice is that they usually let our Ramp spells resolve, figuring that they counter whatever we are trying to ramp into. And Zacama is in the sideboard because it's a freaking dinosaur that wins games all by itself. I imagine that most decks will board out their creature removal in favor of other things and ramping into Zacama seems like it would break any Aggro or Mid-Range opponent in half.
I'm wondering if there is a way to mainboard some Countermagic, but I think that's being a little too greedy. I like the current iteration and wins pretty decently whenever MTG Arena decides not to mana screw me. I've lost more games to computer generated mana screw than anything else, so that indicates to me that the deck would be solid in real life. I could be totally wrong about that though.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The new list that I've been playing with now looks like this. It has gone entirely creatureless so as to blank out as much of my opponent's removal as possible.
4x Gift of Paradise
3x Circuitous Route
Removal Effects (14)
3x Lava Coil
4x Fight with Fire
3x Deafening Clarion
2x Settle the Wreckage
2x Cleansing Nova
Card Advantage (8)
4x Azor's Gateway
4x Chemister's Insight
Utility/Win Conditions (7)
3x Banefire
2x Expansion // Explosion
2x The Mirari Conjecture
4x Temple Garden
3x Sunpetal Grove
2x Sacred Foundry
4x Steam Vents
3x Hinterland Harbor
2x Izzet Guildgate
2x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Boros Guildgate
2x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Negate
2x Nezahal, Primal Tide
3x Carnage Tyrant
1x Sanguine Sacrament
2x Zacama, Primal Calamity
1x Lava Coil
1x Settle the Wreckage
Because the deck is creatureless, I imagine that my opponents will side out all of their removal which opens them up to getting overwhelmed by Zacama and/or Carnage Tyrant. The mainboard Burn spells have been more than sufficient in killing my opponents; in fact, I'm thinking about upping the Banefire count to the full 4.
I recently played against a Golgari Mid-Range variant and smashed it. It's amazing how quickly this deck can get to 9 mana to kick Fight with Fire and kill opponents' Planeswalkers and creatures. The card I've been most impressed with is Azor's Gateway. That card is the real deal, people. Against the Control matchup, you pretty much auto-win as long as you can keep a Banefire in hand. I was playing against Jeskai Control on MTG Arena and cast the Gateway on T2. I had several of my spells countered until I flipped the Gateway into a Banefire for 23. Easiest win I've ever had.
This has become my preferred deck on MTG Arena. I feel like it doesn't have any terrible matchups out of the gate with the exception of Mono Red because Aggro Burn is just really good against a durdly kinda do nothing deck.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think that playing a true 4-Color decks with such a heavy white splash is a bit too heavy on the mana (without Chromatic Lantern) so maybe doing without white completely could be an option (or just a micro splash for Deafening Clarion and Ixalan's Binding in the SB and no Nova/Wreckage).
Azor's Gateway is not bad but the ramp aspect is a bit questionable imho as you will take quite a bit of damage and just playing more ramp cards
(Grow from the Ashes/Chromatic Lantern/Elvish Rejuvenator) will get you the necessary mana for a lethal burn spell without having to flip this.
I'd rather play Search for Azcanta + Ral, Izzet Viceroy as my filtering/card advantage engines and Ral is a good finisher and has a useful removal ability a well.
Some other possible PW options can be Jaya Ballard (very good with the burn spells) and Chandra, Bold Pyromancer (a bit questionable but ramps and has a great Ult' ability which is rather quick to get to).
A neat way to reuse The Mirari Conjecture (or any other card) can be Recollect (the bodyless Eternal Witness) which can also get back the burn spells if you're set up to win the next turn.
I probably prefer the utility of Recollect to the first half of Expansion // Explosion.
Another powerful card which can be played in the deck is Nexus of Fate which even without building around can help the deck pull ahead getting an extra turn from time to time.
2x Ral, Izzet Viceroy
Enchantment (8)
2x Search for Azcanta
4x Gift of Paradise
2x The Mirari Conjecture
Sorcery (18)
2x Banefire
3x Deafening Clarion
4x Fight with Fire
2x Recollect
4x Grow from the Ashes
3x Circuitous Route
3x Lightning Strike
4x Chemister's Insight
Land (25)
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Steam Vents
4x Hinterland Harbor
6x Forest
4x Mountain
2x Island
1x Plains
4x Negate
3x Lava Coil
2x Ixalan's Binding
2x Star of Extinction
2x Pelakka Wurm
2x Nezahal, Primal Tide
The deck is a bit lite on instants to get back with The Mirari Conjecture but I'm not sure what else I could use besides trimming some ramp sorceries for more copies of Chemister's Insight.
Some more possibly useful cards can be: Blink of an Eye (or Expel from Orazca), Inescapable Blaze (an instant speed Banefire x6),
Fiery Cannonade, Shivan Fire/Response // Resurgence or Syncopate/Ionize/Sinister Sabotage.
I've also dropped Thaumatic Compass which I've liked in most of my ramp decks and it was a good way to answers big threats which didn't die to (an un-kicked) Fight with Fire.
Edit:
Updated the deck by adding: 2x Chemister's Insight over 1x Circuitous Route + 1x The Mirari Conjecture.
Lava Coil was moved to the SB for Deafening Clarion and River's Rebuke was replaced by Star of Extinction in the SB.
I tried using Ral in my list and i found that he died far too frequently for my tastes. Mostly I was just tired of turning on The Eldest Reborn for my opponents, as trying to face an opposing Ral without a Banefire sucks. Perhaps it's just MTG Arena that's doing me wrong, but I've been having trouble recently drawing my Wrath effects on time. Honestly, I haven't been very impressed with The Mirari Conjecture lately. I think I might try Ral again and see if it makes a difference. i think Ral is objectively better than The Conjecture if he can Ultimate.
Jaya Ballard is a cool idea. There's a good chunk of Red mana in the deck so casting her on time shouldn't be too hard. Her ramp effect is relevant and her card filtering effect is very important as well. The more I think about it, the more I like her as a testing idea.
If you look at where Jeskai Control decks are going now, they are now playing 3-4 copies of Azor's Gateway and 4 copies of Expansion // Explosion being able to dump a bajillion mana into a draw spell is great. Explosion is probably the most important spell in the deck since you can feasibly cast it for x=3 or x=4 and kill their creature that they cast after you've Wrathed the board the turn previous. Every time I cast that spell I turn the corner and ALWAYS win. I think I'm actually going to cut The Conjectures in favor of upping the Explosion counts. I might try Sanguine Sacrament just for kicks as well, since gaining 14 life seems pretty good as a way to buy time.
You know, I've had the same idea with adding Countermagic main deck. I just don't think that it fits what the deck is trying to do, since I want to be tapping out pretty much every turn to either clear the board, kill creatures, or Ramp. But, it's still attractive to think about.
Either way, this deck has been a ton of fun. It's my favorite deck to play currently and I like how I can have an EDH type of game in Standard. Hard Casting Zacama is still a ton of fun.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Upping Chemister's Insight to 4x was definetly the right call so I've replaced the 3rd The Mirari Conjecture and the 4th Circuitous Route.
I'm still unsure about Lightning Strike in this deck but that is probably as i mainly see control and midrange decks against which it is weak.
Though maybe I should have another instant like: Blink of an Eye, Anticipate or even Negate instead.
The Mirari Conjecture, Recollect and Chemister's Insight together with Search for Azcanta make the deck very consistent and provide lategame inevitability with The Mirari Conjecture + Recollect looping each other and doubling up either a burn spell or Chemister's Insight to pull ahead on cards and find the finishers.
Several questions for you. Do you think that there's a substantial difference between Gift of Paradise and Grow from the Ashes? I have found the life-gain relevant against Aggro decks and it does open up more colors and spells to play with outside of the Temur colors.
Which leads me to my next question: have you missed the White Wrath effects in Deafening Clarion and Settle the Wreckage? They seem pivotal in turning the corner against Aggro matches and dealing with Carnage Tyrant (for Settle specifically).
Have you considered running Pelakka Wurm? I just recently put it in for a few games and it's been performing admirably. rades with Carnage Tyrant while also significantly padding our life total to get our of Burn range.
I'm personally looking forward to see what the new Gruul and Simic cards bring to the Standard pool.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
# I run both as the lifegain + fixing is important with Gift while Grow has more ramp potential with the kicker (and also puts the land/s untapped) while counting as a sorcery in the GY for Azcanta/Ral/Mirari.
# I have Clarion in my SB and I also pack River's Rebuke over Nova/Settle to not splash heavier into white (or lean too much on Gift for fixing).
# I run 2x Wurms in my SB and also like them in the aggro matchups.
Recollect is infinitely better with mirari.
I don't see how, if all you're looking to do is bring back Mirari. The smaller mana cost is thus better in this situation.
All he wants to return with recollect is mirari to loop it. Thus Nature's Spiral is the better choice as it costs less. Not sure how you don't see the logic behind this. If he's looking to bring back sorceries and instants, then he has conjecture for that.
I don't always have Mirari to get back sorceries so Recollect is a nice backup for that too.
I don't see any reason to prefer Nature's Spiral.
That's fine I was just stating that if that was all you used it for then why not go with something cheaper.
-Stay Frosty
Why would you limit yourself like that in a deck that's 85% non permanents.
Wouldn't be a gimmick. Being short-sighted about doesn't necessarily help either...considering there are other cards significantly worse those mentioned.
-Stay Frosty
Do you care to elaborate on how you think those cards can make a good deck and throw in a rough decklist as an example ?
Also, which of the cards mentioned here do you consider worse than these two ?
I wouldn't say it is a worse control deck as it is a distinctly a ramp deck and having sorceries over creatures as win-cons is actually more reliable to dodge all the removal in the format.
Having card advantage (Azcanta, Ral, Mirari, Chemister's, Recollect) to back up the ramp only makes the plan more consistent and all the removal lets you get to the stage of the game when you can 1-shot the opponent.
Also, Ral is a backup win-con in this deck with its Ult' ability.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-naya-control-62825
Looks pretty solid for the most part though I don't like Thunderherd Migration over Grow from the Ashes/Elvish Rejuvenator/Gift of Paradise,
think that 4x Thaumatic Compass is a bit much and think that the SB has too many creatures.
Dawn of Hope is an interesting idea as well though I don't know if it should be a maindeck card.
It seems that Naya Ramp was represented in GP Lille:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-naya-ramp-61590
It is rather different than my original build but uses interesting cards.
It was also played here:
https://youtu.be/lJ6B7pjfQfc
Though a slightly tweaked version - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1451091
I like March of the Multitudes + The Immortal Sun the most about that deck (and can see adding Shalai as well to grow the tokens),
but the rest of it seems highly questionable:
# Treasure Map + Azor's Gateway are probably not good enough for a ramp deck as they offer some very minimal card filtering and slow ramp.
# Not playing Gift of Paradise/Elvish Rejuvenator is probably wrong as well.
# Zacama is powerful but inconsistent (can rot in hand too long) and some decks don't really care about it and it gets removed immediately for not enough value so it could be a 1x-of SB card at best unfortunetly.
# Trostani Discordant seems out of place in a ramp deck (might as well be Siege-Gang Commander) and I'd remove it entirely.
# Star of Extinction should either be moved to the SB (for PW's) ot cut out entirely with Cleansing Nova doing largely the same for less mana.
Fight with Fire can at least go to the face and remove creatures in the early turns and thats why I prefer it.
After taking in these new ideas here is my updated build of the deck:
4x Elvish Rejuvenator
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2x Pelakka Wurm
Instant (4)
4x March of the Multitudes
Sorcery (17)
2x Banefire
3x Deafening Clarion
4x Fight with Fire
4x Grow from the Ashes
4x Circuitous Route
Artifact (4)
2x Thaumatic Compass
2x The Immortal Sun
3x Ixalan's Binding
Land (25)
4 Rootbound Crag
3x Sacred Foundry
3x Temple Garden
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Arch of Orazca
5x Forest
3x Mountain
3x Plains
1x Island
4x Negate
3x Cleansing Nova
4x Deathgorge Scavenger
1x Lyra Dawnbringer
3x Carnage Tyrant
# I'm trying out Elvish Rejuvenator over Gift of Paradise as the lifegain is less necessary with March (and the lifelink tokens) and it can help with convoking March and thinning the deck of lands even more (and finding Arch).
# I've decided that Thrashing Brontodon/Knight of Autumn don't really do enough for the deck and decided to replace them with Deathgorge Scavenger which can also gain some life but also helps eat away GY's which is good against Golgari and Izzet Drakes and also pressures control decks.
# I'm still not sure if Ixalan's Binding or Cleansing Nova should be be the maindeck card (or maybe Deafening Clarion should be in the SB ?).
# I've put in a Lyra as well though it might be the 4th Carnage Tyrant to board in against control/midrange.