I see Lazav, Isareth, The Eldest Reborn and Muldrotha as forms of recursion. But at this point I don't know what is going to be powerful in the new meta and I want to explore cards that might be.
I saw an article about a Golgari on MTG Goldfish where they had two Graveyard Marshal in the main deck. That could be really cool. It's like a small Scarab God and would be another way to take advantage of a loaded graveyard.
Definitely something I'm going to look into trying. I already miss Scarab God
I think having some anti graveyard hate cards might be a good idea. I think a lot of people are aware of needing graveyard hate in the new meta with all the surveil, jump start and golgari things happening.
Hey, got a bunch of new cards today, so this is what I came up with so far. Most of the deck was inspired by Brad Nelson's Sultai Midrange deck, but I see a few things I think I should change after seeing the SCG tour over the weekend and results from the first week.
I'd like some critique from you guys, so here's my list.
I think the deck looks very suited to go against other midrange decks and control decks. Strong spot removal package, strong library filtering, hand disruption and some big flying finishers.
Here's a couple of my concerns and thoughts with how it looks right now.
1: I need more some enchantment hate. I'd like to find space for 2 Thrashing Brontodon or maybe more. Need to take care of Tribunal, Experimental Frenzy, History of Benalia and other stuff like that.
2: I'd like to add 2 Find // Finality in the main deck. Card looks really sick. Good graveyard synergy and late game pseudo boardwipe. Saw it played a few times on the SCG stream over the weekend and was very impressed with the card.
I'm thinking about taking two Thought Erasure out of the main and swapping them with two Find // Finality
Removing two Thought Erasue is probably a good idea, but I have a feeling my meta will have a bit slower decks than mono red at my first post rotation FNM.
Also a good main deck answer to Token decks before boarding Ritual of Soot and Golden Demise in from the sideboard.
3: I'd like to add one or two Vivien Reid to the sideboard. More enchantment hate, good for grindy stuff. Just a good card in general. Maybe take out the 3 Deathgorge Scavenger from the sideboard in favour of other stuff like Vivien and Brontondon? I don't think I'll be needing a lot of graveyard hate, but the life gain is still nice against red.
5: I have a feeling I should add 1 Field of Ruin to the mana base.
6: I guess I need to focus my deck a bit more to beating Mono red and Boros decks from what I can see in the week 1 meta.
7: I already miss Scarab God for this deck hehe.
I have a feeling it's too weak somehow after drawing a couple of test hands. Maybe need some more high impact creatures or something, not sure. More early threats/interactions?
Let me know your thoughts. My local FNM is on Wednesdays so I have little time to tweak it before the first voyage.
Concoct is pretty good if you're doing the graveyard thing which I believe Sultai should be doing. Some kinda split with Find and/or Journey to Eternity main with concoct in the board.
Very quick background, In researching and building this list upon spoiler season I tested several cards and found out several interesting facts. First to my disappointment, Vraska, Golgari Queen was not what I wanted to her to be. At least with the style of deck I had wanted to run. I originally thought she'd be amazing with Muldrotha, the Gravetide but found out too many times she'd come down on an empty board and didn't do anything. So I moved on without her.
It didn't take long to figure out running anything less that 4 of both Doom Whisperer and Nullhide Ferox is a mistake. They are to good to leave out. After gold fishing around 20 or games I found I was drawing too many lands so I cut and haven't looked back since. Found that 23 feels really good.
So I finally got to play some actual games. I will not get into to much detail right now but at both FNM, and a Win-a-Box I went 2-1 and 3-1.
FNM
Naya Tokens
0-2 He drew 5 Conclave Tribunal in the two games. This was before I upp't the Trophy's to 3(2) and I had only 1 Brontodon in the Side. Still felt good about the games.
Mono green
2-0 not even close.
GW Tokens
2-1 Little better prepared.
Win-a-Box
Sulti Midrange
2-0 I felt I tutored for every card.
Mono(4-color)Red Dragon's
2-1 His list can't deal with Ferox's.
Mono Red
0-2 I need to play this MU a lot more. He had an awesome hand game one and I nearly beat him, game two, I sat at 3 mana with 2 Ferox'x in my hand. I again, nearly beat him.
Jeski Control
2-1 This was a difficult match but Ferox is obviously a big deal here. Vraska out of the side also fared very well.
Both nights I lost to the deck whom took 1st. I can't argue that.
Lots of games to be played yet before I decide more. The sideboard was as broad as I could make it without knowing the meta and only what a couple of people were playing. After the first weekend of test games and actual match games played the only thing I'd change currently is maybe something as lame as Druid of the Cowl in for Glowspore Shaman. They did their jobs but sort of at a mediocre pace. They are good with Muldrotha obviously. but I feel the deck ran best when I played a Turn 2 Drover of the Mighty. I know the Shaman has more synergy with the Pelt Collectors and Muldrotha but I think I want as many turn 2 mana dorks as I can. Turn 3 Ferox's are amazing!
I plan to put all my standard time into this list and do as much testing as I possibly can.
Your deck looks pretty awesome and you got some nice results. I like how you added some elements from the Green Stompy list.
Why did you add Drover of the mighty instead of Llanowar Elves when you're only running three dinosaurs in the sideboard? Why not go with 4 Llanowar elves and 4 Druid of the cowl like you mention instead of Glowspore Shaman and Drover of the Mighty. Druid of the Cowl also survives Chainwhirlers that still run around.
Would you add some counter magic like Negate and Disdainful Stroke to the sideboard since you're running blue or are you all in on the Ferox plan that you don't want potentially dead counter magic stuck in your hand?
Do you feel like you ever get value from Muldrotha? I know I only have one Muldrotha but it pretty much dies before I cast anything from it.
First, I was very high on Midnight Reaper but like Vraska, it performed very below expectations. I ended up taking those out and completing the playsets of Ferox's and Doomys in it's place. At some point I could definitely see it finding it's place into the list.
Drover of the Mighty. This is a very interesting discussion for a couple reasons. First, so far the any color has only been an issue a couple times. Saved me with the second green for Ferox on 3 a few times along with several times for the turn 4 Doom Whisperer. I simply chose it for the add any color. As far as Llanowar Elf, if Breeding Pool were legal he'd be an auto include. I'm also including the 2 mana mana dorks over the one mana elf due to the shock lands and the ability to run any number of Woodland Streams. Maybe, it'll make it's way into the list but for now and the flexibility of the sideboard I like the more mana fixing potential. This also makes the sideboard more versitile as I plan to test out Thought Erasure's in the board. I feel they may be devastating to play one out araly to take a potential removal spell out of a Ferox's danger zone.
Chart a Course. The dark horse. The unsung hero. Potentially my favorite card in the list. Gives me more reach that this deck deserves honestly. Let's face it, I want to run Chemister's Insight. Let's be honest, this may still happen. Here's what I've discovered. Running a Pelt Collector out on 1 and NOT having a Drover on 2 but having a Chart is amazing (this is also the Glowspore Shaman's job). Especially if you have a Ferox waiting to be dropped on 4 but only have the 3 lands.It's all about consistency. CaC with Ferox you ask? At the 2 CC it becomes a 4 CC with a Ferox in play. That's something I can live with as opposed to 6 mana with the Insight. Same with Vraska's Contempt. It would be main but I'll settle for the 3x Assassin's Trophy's and bring them in in the MU's I'll need them in.
Sideboard.
15 open cards realistically. Negates can find their way in, it's all up for grabs honestly. I really like the idea I can play Stompy game one and become a midrange game 2 if desired. The current sideboard was as open and universal as I felt I could make it going into a meta that's essentially wide open. Obviously as we progress, it will become more narrow as we figure out what is being played and what we are weak against.
I like Kraul Harpooner. It seems very interesting. Again, I feel this may be more meta dependent and figuring out how many opposing Doom Whisperers and Lyra Dawnbringers are floating around. This card unfortunately gets worse if I take out Glowspore Shaman's however.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGUSULTI ELEVENSBGU
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
Here is a rcent Sultai Muldrotha list - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1381451
I'm a bit surprised that it plays the full playset of Dead Weight as it is a rather situational card.
Also no copies of The Eldest Reborn in the maindeck seems odd despite it being a pretty slow card.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Definitely something I'm going to look into trying. I already miss Scarab God
I think having some anti graveyard hate cards might be a good idea. I think a lot of people are aware of needing graveyard hate in the new meta with all the surveil, jump start and golgari things happening.
I'd like some critique from you guys, so here's my list.
4x Merfolk Branchwalker
4x Jadelight Ranger
2x Elvish Rejuvenator
3x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Hostage Taker
3x Doom Whisperer
1x Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Instants 8
3x Assassin's Trophy
3x Vraska's Contempt
2x Cast Down
4x Thought Erasue
Enchantments 2
2x The Eldest Reborn
Planeswalkers 2
2x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Lands 25
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Watery Grave
4x Woodland Cemetery
4x Hinterland Harbor
1x Drowned Catacomb
2x Disdainful Stroke
3x Negate
1x Assassin's Trophy
2x Ritual of Soot
1x Golden Demise
1x Arguel's Blood Fast
3x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Carnage Tyrant
I think the deck looks very suited to go against other midrange decks and control decks. Strong spot removal package, strong library filtering, hand disruption and some big flying finishers.
Here's a couple of my concerns and thoughts with how it looks right now.
1: I need more some enchantment hate. I'd like to find space for 2 Thrashing Brontodon or maybe more. Need to take care of Tribunal, Experimental Frenzy, History of Benalia and other stuff like that.
2: I'd like to add 2 Find // Finality in the main deck. Card looks really sick. Good graveyard synergy and late game pseudo boardwipe. Saw it played a few times on the SCG stream over the weekend and was very impressed with the card.
I'm thinking about taking two Thought Erasure out of the main and swapping them with two Find // Finality
Removing two Thought Erasue is probably a good idea, but I have a feeling my meta will have a bit slower decks than mono red at my first post rotation FNM.
Also a good main deck answer to Token decks before boarding Ritual of Soot and Golden Demise in from the sideboard.
3: I'd like to add one or two Vivien Reid to the sideboard. More enchantment hate, good for grindy stuff. Just a good card in general. Maybe take out the 3 Deathgorge Scavenger from the sideboard in favour of other stuff like Vivien and Brontondon? I don't think I'll be needing a lot of graveyard hate, but the life gain is still nice against red.
4: I have 4x Plaguecrafter and 2x Undergrowth Lich that I'm thinking about maybe swapping Hostage Taker out with.
5: I have a feeling I should add 1 Field of Ruin to the mana base.
6: I guess I need to focus my deck a bit more to beating Mono red and Boros decks from what I can see in the week 1 meta.
7: I already miss Scarab God for this deck hehe.
I have a feeling it's too weak somehow after drawing a couple of test hands. Maybe need some more high impact creatures or something, not sure. More early threats/interactions?
Let me know your thoughts. My local FNM is on Wednesdays so I have little time to tweak it before the first voyage.
4x Doom Whisperer
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Glowspore Shaman
3x Muldrotha, the Gravetide
4x Nullhide Ferox
4x Pelt Collector
4x Plaguecrafter
3x Ravenous Chupacabra
Spells: (7)
3x Assassin's Trophy
4x Chart a Course
1x Drowned Catacomb
3x Forest
4x Hinterland Harbor
1x Island
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
4x Woodland Cemetery
1x Woodland Stream
1x Carnage Tyrant
2x Dead Weight
2x Plague Mare
1x Phyrexian Scriptures
1x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Ritual of Soot
1x The Eldest Reborn
2x Thrashing Brontodon
2x Vraska's Contempt
1x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Very quick background, In researching and building this list upon spoiler season I tested several cards and found out several interesting facts. First to my disappointment, Vraska, Golgari Queen was not what I wanted to her to be. At least with the style of deck I had wanted to run. I originally thought she'd be amazing with Muldrotha, the Gravetide but found out too many times she'd come down on an empty board and didn't do anything. So I moved on without her.
It didn't take long to figure out running anything less that 4 of both Doom Whisperer and Nullhide Ferox is a mistake. They are to good to leave out. After gold fishing around 20 or games I found I was drawing too many lands so I cut and haven't looked back since. Found that 23 feels really good.
So I finally got to play some actual games. I will not get into to much detail right now but at both FNM, and a Win-a-Box I went 2-1 and 3-1.
FNM
Naya Tokens
0-2 He drew 5 Conclave Tribunal in the two games. This was before I upp't the Trophy's to 3(2) and I had only 1 Brontodon in the Side. Still felt good about the games.
Mono green
2-0 not even close.
GW Tokens
2-1 Little better prepared.
Win-a-Box
Sulti Midrange
2-0 I felt I tutored for every card.
Mono(4-color)Red Dragon's
2-1 His list can't deal with Ferox's.
Mono Red
0-2 I need to play this MU a lot more. He had an awesome hand game one and I nearly beat him, game two, I sat at 3 mana with 2 Ferox'x in my hand. I again, nearly beat him.
Jeski Control
2-1 This was a difficult match but Ferox is obviously a big deal here. Vraska out of the side also fared very well.
Both nights I lost to the deck whom took 1st. I can't argue that.
Lots of games to be played yet before I decide more. The sideboard was as broad as I could make it without knowing the meta and only what a couple of people were playing. After the first weekend of test games and actual match games played the only thing I'd change currently is maybe something as lame as Druid of the Cowl in for Glowspore Shaman. They did their jobs but sort of at a mediocre pace. They are good with Muldrotha obviously. but I feel the deck ran best when I played a Turn 2 Drover of the Mighty. I know the Shaman has more synergy with the Pelt Collectors and Muldrotha but I think I want as many turn 2 mana dorks as I can. Turn 3 Ferox's are amazing!
I plan to put all my standard time into this list and do as much testing as I possibly can.
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
Why did you add Drover of the mighty instead of Llanowar Elves when you're only running three dinosaurs in the sideboard? Why not go with 4 Llanowar elves and 4 Druid of the cowl like you mention instead of Glowspore Shaman and Drover of the Mighty. Druid of the Cowl also survives Chainwhirlers that still run around.
Would you add some counter magic like Negate and Disdainful Stroke to the sideboard since you're running blue or are you all in on the Ferox plan that you don't want potentially dead counter magic stuck in your hand?
Do you feel like you ever get value from Muldrotha? I know I only have one Muldrotha but it pretty much dies before I cast anything from it.
Just curious about your thoughts.
First, I was very high on Midnight Reaper but like Vraska, it performed very below expectations. I ended up taking those out and completing the playsets of Ferox's and Doomys in it's place. At some point I could definitely see it finding it's place into the list.
Drover of the Mighty. This is a very interesting discussion for a couple reasons. First, so far the any color has only been an issue a couple times. Saved me with the second green for Ferox on 3 a few times along with several times for the turn 4 Doom Whisperer. I simply chose it for the add any color. As far as Llanowar Elf, if Breeding Pool were legal he'd be an auto include. I'm also including the 2 mana mana dorks over the one mana elf due to the shock lands and the ability to run any number of Woodland Streams. Maybe, it'll make it's way into the list but for now and the flexibility of the sideboard I like the more mana fixing potential. This also makes the sideboard more versitile as I plan to test out Thought Erasure's in the board. I feel they may be devastating to play one out araly to take a potential removal spell out of a Ferox's danger zone.
Chart a Course. The dark horse. The unsung hero. Potentially my favorite card in the list. Gives me more reach that this deck deserves honestly. Let's face it, I want to run Chemister's Insight. Let's be honest, this may still happen. Here's what I've discovered. Running a Pelt Collector out on 1 and NOT having a Drover on 2 but having a Chart is amazing (this is also the Glowspore Shaman's job). Especially if you have a Ferox waiting to be dropped on 4 but only have the 3 lands.It's all about consistency. CaC with Ferox you ask? At the 2 CC it becomes a 4 CC with a Ferox in play. That's something I can live with as opposed to 6 mana with the Insight. Same with Vraska's Contempt. It would be main but I'll settle for the 3x Assassin's Trophy's and bring them in in the MU's I'll need them in.
Sideboard.
15 open cards realistically. Negates can find their way in, it's all up for grabs honestly. I really like the idea I can play Stompy game one and become a midrange game 2 if desired. The current sideboard was as open and universal as I felt I could make it going into a meta that's essentially wide open. Obviously as we progress, it will become more narrow as we figure out what is being played and what we are weak against.
I like Kraul Harpooner. It seems very interesting. Again, I feel this may be more meta dependent and figuring out how many opposing Doom Whisperers and Lyra Dawnbringers are floating around. This card unfortunately gets worse if I take out Glowspore Shaman's however.
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
4 thief of sanity
2 plaguecrafter
3 nullhide ferox
3 ravenous chupacabra
3 doom whisperer
2 dream eater
2 vraska, golgari queen
3 assassin's trophy
2 find//finality
3 essence scatter
4 overgrown tomb
4 woodland cemetery
4 water grave
1 drowned catacomb
4 Hinterland harbor
4 Forest
3 swamp
2 island
I'm a bit surprised that it plays the full playset of Dead Weight as it is a rather situational card.
Also no copies of The Eldest Reborn in the maindeck seems odd despite it being a pretty slow card.
On another note, after seing this crazy brew - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-your-deck-sultai-standard-magic-online
I think that with some tweaks it can be a pretty decent deck and Mnemonic Betrayal can offer a lot of card advantage with enough mana to take advantage of it.
Here is an idea for a tweaked build which is a midrange-ramp hybrid:
2x Elvish Rejuvenator
2x Plaguecrafter
4x Thief of Sanity
3x Hostage Taker
2x Ravenous Chupacabra
2x Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Planeswalker (2)
2x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Artifact (4)
4x Treasure Map
Enchantment (5)
1x Dead Weight
2x Phyrexian Scriptures
2x The Eldest Reborn
Instant (4)
3x Assassin's Trophy
1x Cast Down
1x Find // Finality
4x Mnemonic Betrayal
Land (25)
4x Watery Grave
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetery
3x Hinterland Harbor
2x Drowned Catacomb
1x Memorial to Folly
2x Field of Ruin
2x Swamp
2x Island
1x Forest
2x Vraska, Golgari Queen
2x Deathgorge Scavenger
1x Ravenous Chupacabra
1x Arguel's Blood Fast
1x Moment of Craving
1x Assassin's Trophy
2x Ritual of Soot
3x Thought Erasure
1x Negate
1x Disdainful Stroke
Some more options could be:
# A copy of Pelakka Wurm/Vampire Sovereign for lifegain or Tetzimoc, Primal Death as a sweeper over the 2nd copy of Muldrotha.
# Gift of Paradise for ramp/lifegain over Elvish Rejuvenator (and maybe some copies of Treasure Map).
Another option could be Sailor of Means over Elvish Rejuvenator, it offers a better body but only temporary ramp.
# Cutting Field of Ruin for more copies of Memorial to Folly or maybe Memorial to Genius.
# A maindeck copy of Arguel's Blood Fast for card daw and late game sac'-outlet + lifegain or The Mending of Dominaria for ramp/recursion.
# Twilight Prophet as a lategame card advantage engine which can also drain life to stabilize and win the game.