Hey all, I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve here and build for post rotation. I dont get to go to FNM much and its doubtful I'll get to play again before that so here I am tinkering away. I have built Grixis control with Nicol Brolas and Nezzy as finishers. Playtesting has been decent (all against mono green stompy that is still running Blossoming Defense) but I always lose to turn 4-5 Vine Mare. I cant seem to live at all if it sticks to the board which is obviously a major issue. Here is my decklist:
Besides getting face wrecked by Vine Mare it has good game and eats Steel leaf Champion for breakfast. Im here asking for yalls opinion on the deck as well as suggestions for an "Anti-Vine Mare" as well as a decent board wipe after rotation. After a bit ill update with my sideboard list as well. Too lazy to do it atm lol.
Thanks for looking and thanks for any and all help =)
Anything that's not black that can block vinemare is doable, you're in 3 colors so you can't run goblin Chainwhirler but he usually stops vinemare in its tracks, aside from that you'd have to run some other blue or red creature that is big enough to take vinemare down, and if it has first strike to survive the combat it would be even better.
Otherwise you'd have to run 4 Essence scatter and hope to be able to counter it before it hits the board.
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"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
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"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
NOTES:
+ Dream Eater feels really good!
+ Bone Dragon feels really good with Surveil Mechanics and other cards that dump junk into the GY to fuel his ability.
In this build I tried to see what could be done without pw/creature based wincons.
There are a lot of great burn spells in this format.
I like the idea of just counter-burning the opp to death, bypassing creatures/planeswalkers entirely.
Ral G2 should be a nice surprise as well.
In this build I tried to see what could be done without pw/creature based wincons.
There are a lot of great burn spells in this format.
I like the idea of just counter-burning the opp to death, bypassing creatures/planeswalkers entirely.
Ral G2 should be a nice surprise as well.
Mr. Rotten is right! Check out Top Deck Productions testing Risk Factor in its Jeskai build and you'll see. I knew the card was good when I saw that it included the jump-start ability but I was completely blown away seeing how it played out. Seriously, watch the video.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
I also didn't want to go all 4 Insight because a deck like this, you're trying to stay pretty low on the Curve so you can cast multiple spells a Turn.
You still need to use some of the Burn Spells as Removal though, but with the Combination of Ionize + Risk Factor and then saving Banefires and Fight with Fire, you should still be able to finish off your Opponent pretty effectively.
I also didn't want to go all 4 Insight because a deck like this, you're trying to stay pretty low on the Curve so you can cast multiple spells a Turn.
You still need to use some of the Burn Spells as Removal though, but with the Combination of Ionize + Risk Factor and then saving Banefires and Fight with Fire, you should still be able to finish off your Opponent pretty effectively.
you don't have insight in your V2 decklist, which is what I thought you were going for. also after watching risk factor at work, i honestly can't believe the card was printed. Talk about absolutely broken...
Edit: I now realize those two deck lists were from two separate people.
[
you don't have insight in your V2 decklist, which is what I thought you were going for. also after watching risk factor at work, i honestly can't believe the card was printed. Talk about absolutely broken...
Edit: I now realize those two deck lists were from two separate people.
Yea, my Counter Burn list had x2 Insights in it, but I've actually since upped it to 3. Insight is really good too IMO.
Between Insights and the Risk Factors, you really dig through your deck quick to find the Banefires. It's really gross!
I agree, Risk Factor almost even feels good enough to play it in Non Burny Types of Control Decks... - It's INSTANT! lol
you don't have insight in your V2 decklist, which is what I thought you were going for. also after watching risk factor at work, i honestly can't believe the card was printed. Talk about absolutely broken...
Edit: I now realize those two deck lists were from two separate people.
Yea I left it out in mine in favor of Anticipate for more early plays.
It may be more correct to play 2 Chemister's Insight instead though. Or even 3 as Mr. Rotten does. I haven't play-tested the deck yet.
One thing to note though is that you can pitch any card late to re-cast Risk Factor. It turns your bad draws into Risk Factors, which is amazing.
[
you don't have insight in your V2 decklist, which is what I thought you were going for. also after watching risk factor at work, i honestly can't believe the card was printed. Talk about absolutely broken...
Edit: I now realize those two deck lists were from two separate people.
Yea, my Counter Burn list had x2 Insights in it, but I've actually since upped it to 3. Insight is really good too IMO.
Between Insights and the Risk Factors, you really dig through your deck quick to find the Banefires. It's really gross!
I agree, Risk Factor almost even feels good enough to play it in Non Burny Types of Control Decks... - It's INSTANT! lol
Honestly I think risk factor would be insane in a boros aggro deck as well. Good for late re-fuel. They'll be low hp, so they either die or you get a possibly 3 more threats.
Honestly I think risk factor would be insane in a boros aggro deck as well. Good for late re-fuel. They'll be low hp, so they either die or you get a possibly 3 more threats.
Ewwwwww..... Yea I think you're right, Risk Factor is pretty busted. I didn't even consider that, it could totally slot in Mono Red or BR/Boros Aggro Decks to Refuel.... #Spicy
Honestly I think risk factor would be insane in a boros aggro deck as well. Good for late re-fuel. They'll be low hp, so they either die or you get a possibly 3 more threats.
Ewwwwww..... Yea I think you're right, Risk Factor is pretty busted. I didn't even consider that, it could totally slot in Mono Red or BR/Boros Aggro Decks to Refuel.... #Spicy
Mono-red was pretty obvious! Straight red burn should be possible in this format. But why not just splash blue for Ionize anyways then?
Still can't believe Risk Factor was printed. Soooooo strong.
i honestly think it will be banned. It's too strong lol.
I had the same thought... I could see it being pretty busted in alot of decks, Aggro and Control - I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the first New Standard Bans in about 5 months or so.
I started off with Nicol Bolas, the Ravenger in my list but after much thought I decided against it. Turning on an opponents removal was not where I wanna be. Having them in the Sideboard may become a thing.
So if we're going all in on the counter-burn plan then 4 Ionize is a must! They're great alongside Risk Factor since they up the chance of drawing 3.
I like the 2/1 split of Banefire and Fight with Fire and 4 Lightning Strike is just money 💰
I haven't worked out the manabase yet but this is what I plan to open the rotation with. I'm going to test the 1 of's in Price of Fame and Lava Coil just to see how they play out but they might turn into Mission Briefing
I think mission briefing will be a somewhat powerful card. I agree that maybe 1-2 main board could be quite effective. Especially with cards like Ionize and lightning strike.
With Mission Briefing can't you cast Banefire from your yard and still be able to pay the X cost? I'm pretty sure you can and if so that's awesome! Counter-burn ftw 🤓
2x Nezahal, Primal Tide
3x Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Sorceries (7)
2x Banefire
2x Divination
2x Fight with Fire
1x Settle the Score
Instants (18)
2x Cast Down
3x Lightning Strike
2x Moment of Craving
2x Murder
2x Negate
3x Shock
2x Unwind
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Karn, Scion of Urza
2x Tezzeret, Artifice Master
Land (26)
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Island
4x Mountain
4x Sulfur Falls
6x Swamp
Besides getting face wrecked by Vine Mare it has good game and eats Steel leaf Champion for breakfast. Im here asking for yalls opinion on the deck as well as suggestions for an "Anti-Vine Mare" as well as a decent board wipe after rotation. After a bit ill update with my sideboard list as well. Too lazy to do it atm lol.
Thanks for looking and thanks for any and all help =)
Otherwise you'd have to run 4 Essence scatter and hope to be able to counter it before it hits the board.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
for sweepers there are.
Ritual of Soot
Star of Extinction
and then something like Opt or Mission Briefing for card advantage.
-Stay Frosty
4x Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Spells (24)
1x Ritual of Soot
4x Vraska's Contempt
2x Cast Down
3x Lightning Strike
1x Vona's Hunger
2x Lava Coil
4x Sinister Sabotage
3x Thought Erasure
4x Chemister's Insight
2x Search for Azcanta
Planeswalker (4)
4x Ral, Izzet Viceroy
Land (26)
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
2x Island
1x Memorial to Genius
1x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
2x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
NOTES:
+ Ral, Izzet - Feels very powerful!
1x Bone Dragon
2x Dream Eater
4x Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Spells (25)
2x Ritual of Soot
4x Vraska's Contempt
2x Cast Down
3x Lightning Strike
2x Moment of Craving
4x Thought Erasure
4x Sinister Sabotage
4x Chemister's Insight
2x Search for Azcanta
Land (26)
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Island
1x Memorial to Genius
1x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
3x Sulfur Falls
4x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
NOTES:
+ Dream Eater feels really good!
+ Bone Dragon feels really good with Surveil Mechanics and other cards that dump junk into the GY to fuel his ability.
In this build I tried to see what could be done without pw/creature based wincons.
There are a lot of great burn spells in this format.
I like the idea of just counter-burning the opp to death, bypassing creatures/planeswalkers entirely.
Ral G2 should be a nice surprise as well.
2x Firemind's Research
2x Search for Azcanta
Instants (20):
4x Sinister Sabotage
2x Ionize
2x Syncopate
3x Vraska's Contempt
2x Vona's Hunger
4x Lightning Strike
2x Chemister's Insight
1x Mission Briefing
Sorceries (10):
4x Thought Erasure
2x Ritual of Soot
2x Notion Rain
1x Banefire
1x Fight with Fire
4x Steam Vents
4x Watery Grave
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Dragonskull Summit
3x Sulfur Falls
3x Island
3x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Evolving Wilds
3x Moment of Craving
2x Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2x Ritual of Soot
2x Negate
2x Duress
1x Essence Scatter
1x Unmoored Ego
1x Vraska's Contempt
1x Vona's Hunger
I like the idea, with Assassin's Trophy sure to see a ton of play, Creatureless sounds super spicy...
Here's my take on a Grixis Counter Burn deck, I think you're really missing out not running Risk Factor.
2x Banefire
1x Fight with Fire
4x Lightning Strike
2x Ritual of Soot
2x Cast Down
2x Lava Coil
1x Vona's Hunger
4x Vraska's Contempt
4x Thought Erasure
4x Ionize
2x Chemister's Insight
4x Risk Factor
2x Search for Azcanta
Land (26)
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
2x Island
2x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
2x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
https://youtu.be/uliiajA6C98
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
-Stay Frosty
I like it. I think you are right about Risk Factor too. Is too good to leave out.
Here's a V2 effort...
2x Search for Azcanta
Instants (25):
3x Ionize
3x Sinister Sabotage
2x Syncopate
1x Essence Scatter
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Vona's Hunger
4x Lightning Strike
1x Mission Briefing
1x Inescapable Blaze
4x Risk Factor
2x Anticipate
4x Thought Erasure
2x Ritual of Soot
1x Banefire
Lands (26):
4x Steam Vents
4x Watery Grave
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Dragonskull Summit
3x Sulfur Falls
2x Island
2x Swamp
2x Mountain
2x Evolving Wilds
3x Moment of Craving
2x Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2x Ritual of Soot
2x Negate
2x Duress
1x Essence Scatter
1x Unmoored Ego
1x Vraska's Contempt
1x Vona's Hunger
I really like this list. 1 question why no insight, or notion rain?
It's there in my List, atleast Chemister's Insight is - Risk Factor replaces the 3 drop Draw Spell of Notion Rain. Risk Factor is way better in a deck like this.
I also didn't want to go all 4 Insight because a deck like this, you're trying to stay pretty low on the Curve so you can cast multiple spells a Turn.
You still need to use some of the Burn Spells as Removal though, but with the Combination of Ionize + Risk Factor and then saving Banefires and Fight with Fire, you should still be able to finish off your Opponent pretty effectively.
you don't have insight in your V2 decklist, which is what I thought you were going for. also after watching risk factor at work, i honestly can't believe the card was printed. Talk about absolutely broken...
Edit: I now realize those two deck lists were from two separate people.
Yea, my Counter Burn list had x2 Insights in it, but I've actually since upped it to 3. Insight is really good too IMO.
Between Insights and the Risk Factors, you really dig through your deck quick to find the Banefires. It's really gross!
I agree, Risk Factor almost even feels good enough to play it in Non Burny Types of Control Decks... - It's INSTANT! lol
Yea I left it out in mine in favor of Anticipate for more early plays.
It may be more correct to play 2 Chemister's Insight instead though. Or even 3 as Mr. Rotten does. I haven't play-tested the deck yet.
One thing to note though is that you can pitch any card late to re-cast Risk Factor. It turns your bad draws into Risk Factors, which is amazing.
Honestly I think risk factor would be insane in a boros aggro deck as well. Good for late re-fuel. They'll be low hp, so they either die or you get a possibly 3 more threats.
Ewwwwww..... Yea I think you're right, Risk Factor is pretty busted. I didn't even consider that, it could totally slot in Mono Red or BR/Boros Aggro Decks to Refuel.... #Spicy
Mono-red was pretty obvious! Straight red burn should be possible in this format. But why not just splash blue for Ionize anyways then?
Still can't believe Risk Factor was printed. Soooooo strong.
I had the same thought... I could see it being pretty busted in alot of decks, Aggro and Control - I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the first New Standard Bans in about 5 months or so.
So if we're going all in on the counter-burn plan then 4 Ionize is a must! They're great alongside Risk Factor since they up the chance of drawing 3.
I like the 2/1 split of Banefire and Fight with Fire and 4 Lightning Strike is just money 💰
3 Sinister Sabotage
4 Lightning Strike
3 Vraska's Contempt
2 Banefire
1 Fight with Fire
3 Chemister's Insight
3 Mission Briefing
3 Search for Azcanta
I haven't worked out the manabase yet but this is what I plan to open the rotation with. I'm going to test the 1 of's in Price of Fame and Lava Coil just to see how they play out but they might turn into Mission Briefing
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
I think mission briefing will be a somewhat powerful card. I agree that maybe 1-2 main board could be quite effective. Especially with cards like Ionize and lightning strike.
Thanks to Dantcg for the Sig!
Dream eater x2
Ralx2
Nicol bolas x3
Rekindling Phoenix x4
Thief of sanity x4
Kitesail freebooter x2
Vraska's contempt x3
Cast down x4
Lava coil x1
Ionize x4
Essence scatter x2
Arguels blood fast x2
Chemister's insight x1
Ritual of soot x1
Fiery cannonade x1
Watery grave x4
Steam vents x4
Dragon skull summit x4
Drowned catacomb x3
Sulfur falls x1
Mountain x2
Island x1
Swamp x4
Detection tower x2
Detection tower is clutch against horses and other hexproof nastiest. Fiery cannonade and soot are my ***** cuz of all the aggro.