Here's a deck I'm thinking of for M19 Standard. It's a Midrange Control deck that feels like it could have some game in the meta. It's a very rough V1 attempt that has no way been tested but looks strong enough for me to look for feedback. Please helpe *make this the best I can before I use all my wildcards on Arena for it!
I know, rare.dec, still looks decent. The inspiration to build this was that sweet new Angel and wanting to do SOMETHING with Lich's Mastery. It kind of took off from there and the deck almost organically built itself. A good thing, to be sure, but also a bad because it makes all the pieces feel more important.
Current curve:
7
9
7
8
2
2
What do y'all think?
-----------------------------------
Against heavy aggro I could see going
-3 Duress
-1 Vraska's Contempt
+2 Seal Away
+2 Fumigate
Changes!
-2 Forsaken Sanctuary
+2 Evolving Wilds
It can give me basics to activate Chapel. It can turn on Fatal Push. Plus it's a card in the yard if I get Mastery out. All wins.
-2 Cast Down
+2 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
Additional lifegain for Resplendent Angel. Energy for various energy hungry cards. A permanent or card in the yard for Mastery. Wins.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Goldfishing on this sites deckbuilder and Frank K's math have shown that I usually have the color requirements met on both cards on curve with 12 effective duel lands and 2 fetches. My issue is more so EBT lands that might set me back a turn.
HoK is a fine card and does work well on curve, but Harvester acts as a brick wall against aggressive decks with its high toughness and lifegain. Plus if I remove all my lifegain cards I may as well remove Resplendent Angel and that card is just too sweet.
I want to give The Immortal Sun a chance to shine before I think about adding Planeswalkers since I can't run both in the same deck.
Besides the RA itself and lyra, how do you plan on gaining 5 life in a turn?
2BB for contempt and 3WW for lyra along with BB for aetherborn and 1WW for angel. I just dont see how you wont get set behind. Even if you do have the colors, they will be coming in tapped awkwardly. If you decide to take out the sun (i think its real bad) put in gideon and lilly.
Its not a must for me to have to gain 5 life a turn, However, to build my deck in such a way for it to be possible to gain 5 life in a turn to activate the Angel without having to run "bad" cards is a good thing, I would think. Any combination of Puzzleknot, Harvester(which any creature can crew), and Aetherborn will net me 5 life, activating the Angel.
Gideon and Lily are amazing cards. Ive just got a feeling about Immortal Sun and, to me, it seems quite strong while fitting the overall gameplan and nature of the deck.
Color requirements are met, they're fine. As far as taplands go, I only have a total of 6 potential EBT lands with as few as 3 guaranteed in the deck. That's really not a lot and while it could be better I don't view it as backbreaking at the moment. Testing is needed to confirm or deny. Though I will say it's ironic to say color requirements are greedy before suggesting to make them even more so. Lol
Let's look at a list of goals that any 75 needs to have in order to hang in the current meta.
-Resilent enough to outlast and win against R/x aggressive decks.
This goal is mostly tackled in the MD with ample lifegain and removal compounded with effective creatures. I should have no real issue reaching the lategame against those decks.
-Aggressive enough to win against various flavors of control.
With a cheap and aggressive threat suite it should be possible to get under controls iron curtain. All cards require an answer, spreading their counterspells too thin with Shalai shutting down spot removal. The SB gives even more answers against pure control decks with recursive creatures, CA, and ways to interrupt their game plan.
TL;DR version
I feel the deck as it stands is meeting or exceeding the goals I have set for it. While it may be 'greedy' in terms of color requirements the math shows it's fine and only testing as this point can tell otherwise. It allows me to test 'build-around' cards like Mastery, Sun, and Resplendent Angel.
Not saying it isn't doable....i'm playing black/white atm too. I just had lots of issues getting history out turn 3 and having two black for contempt on turn 4. I decided to go more cast out/binding instead of contempt as to sure that up a little bit. Dont gotta be so defensive, youre the one asking for input. If you dont wanna change it at all, dont bother asking
I apologize if I came off as defensive. I've been fighting a cold and have been irritated because of it. You're correct, I would like help and opnions, though more often than not the ones I see seem to not consider the deck as a whole. Now, a lot of that is on me because I didn't do a good job of explaining the card choices of gameplan of the deck. In my eyes, it's not just a good stuff deck, but has little synergies built into it. Like I stated in the OP the deck almost organically built itself. That makes it hard for me to make drastic changes without verifiable proof. Now most of that is gained from experience but your second hand experience in the case of Cast Out is great too.. Speaking of which..
Cast Out is a suggestion I can get behind. Still instant speed and more versatile than Contempt. I may have been blinded by Contempts life gain clause.
It's actually not all that important to get 5 life a turn early. Getting it to happen once or twice is all you really need. These aren't horse tokens or vampires, but 4/4 flying Angels. That's why I go with heart of kiran, Karn, and Gideon.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I absolutely understand the synergy of the deck. I just think those cards suggested will help you get to turn 5, 6, 7 more effectively. You aren't gonna beat any red decks with siphoner or the vamp anymore. They just have to much targeted removal. So you need to be able to live til you can drop at least shalai, which will prolly have to block and die, then lyra if you arent to low by then.
I'm building this for my kid to play so i'm definitely invested as well. Hes all on board the RA train for some reason.
I absolutely understand the synergy of the deck. I just think those cards suggested will help you get to turn 5, 6, 7 more effectively. You aren't gonna beat any red decks with siphoner or the vamp anymore. They just have to much targeted removal. So you need to be able to live til you can drop at least shalai, which will prolly have to block and die, then lyra if you arent to low by then.
I'm building this for my kid to play so i'm definitely invested as well. Hes all on board the RA train for some reason.
The biggest swinger of the set, honestly. No one is really playing it right now online because of the competition from History of Benalia and all the removal people are using coincidentally also hitting the angel.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agreed. There wasn't any hugely impactful cards in m19 imo but some good ones. This angel will see play but I'm of the mind that in todays magic, you need immediate value of some kind from any cards you plan to build around. At least siphoner generally only needs one turn to live to draw a card.
History v RA...i guess its just play style preference atm. Neither is drastically impactful in the current game state.
That Recursive Lily would help greatly against decks with heavy removal.
I guess I like RA because I lean more towards Johnny than Spike. She just looks so fun! Plus, I plan on making a Janky GW deck with the same Angel core also so I need to get them either way.
I do fight the same mindset that a creature should be immediately impactful when it hits the board, especially if the deck doesn't have recursion.
About M19, while there aren't any super impactful spells, it seems like there's a lot of little bumps that can push decks up the tier list and shake up the meta. I see white weenie and big white being strong, Enigma Drake decks are getting a big boost with Guttersnipe and Banefire. U/x Artifact decks are getting a nice bump along with Zombie tribel decks. Whether or not it can significantly change the meta, I don't know, but I hope so.
Right now there are so many brews around resplendent angel I think there should be one Wx Angels thread. My own build is going the mid range control route with the angel as a center piece.
FYI Benalia sees more play because the card requires multiple removal spells to deal with and anthems the board. Even if the opponent kills it you still got a token out of it.
Private Mod Note
():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My view on the Puzzleknot is that Hub, Siphoner, and Harvester all need energy. Plus it's some life to force an Angel activation and a permanent that can be sacced to Mastery if needed(assuming I don't get a hub down to make green).
How useful is Temporal Gateway? I only see 5 Historic cards that cost more than its activation. I've also never seen Ashes of the Abhorrent being used. Is it very effective? I suppose shutting down Scrapheap and various embalm creatures could be beneficial.
I like trying out different things with it since the card has a few different features of interest. To me, the card is a better Aerial Responder. Even if you take away the angel token line, it's a 3/3 flying. I was going more a mid-range approach, but looking on it I may just swap into a lower cost UW fliers listing and not even worry so much about all the angels.
Also I'm testing Departed Deckhand. Oddly enough, it works with Ajani and other +1/+1 counter generators since it has to be a spell that targets, not an ability. So you can do fun stuff like throw a bunch of Gearhulk tokens onto it or have Ajani put some more power onto it with no issues. That and it's effectively unblockable because no one is running spirits.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I like the take, deckhand seems strong. Though, there's 2 card choices I question.
1)Compulsory Rest
Would Seal Away not be better since it doesn't have a chance to gain your opponent life?
2)Karn
I get that he's CA. Without Oath of Teferi though it's super slow CA. With no benefit to your deck with his other abilities.
I'm mostly using Compulsory Rest because of it being able to stop blockers and not just attackers. It's slower than Seal away, but works if they try to hold back. That and I can use it in a pinch to reach that 5 life swing in a turn to get a 4/4 in some mid to late game scenarios. At least that is the hypothesis. Karn is in there due to curve and his card draw ability is just fine. There isn't a need to use Oath of Teferi because even though you get the worse of two cards, you still are drawing one, getting another card, and have the ability to choose to get the card with the silver token at any point as long as Karn is still up. Also, he's a body that draws fire.
Private Mod Note
():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I see your reasoning, though I will admit Karn has never drawn fire from me unless I felt at an extreme disadvantage. More often than not, I was always able to maintain more pressure than the worst of 2 cards did against me.
How useful is Temporal Gateway? I only see 5 Historic cards that cost more than its activation. I've also never seen Ashes of the Abhorrent being used. Is it very effective? I suppose shutting down Scrapheap and various embalm creatures could be beneficial.
You count wrong. There are 8 historic cards costing 5+, and the prime reason for playing it is a the combo of dropping Lich's Mastery after their combat step, so you don't have to immediately sacrifice stuff from the first attack. Ashes, I should probably cut. There are a few targets, but I only put it in for the incidental lifegain when things die. There must be something more useful for that slot.
Correct, I wasn't thinking that Artifact was included with Historic. Gideon of the Trials might be a good pick. Extra 'can't lose insurance and plays safe with fumigate.
Gideon of the Trials is pretty solid against a lot of decks. I rank him pretty high vs big creature decks and less useful against go-wide strategies, since his best way of dealing with go wide is to emblem and then keep ticking him up to force the opponent into attacking him. Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants is a cut down Glorious Anthem and Resurrection. He's no Elspeth, Knight Errant, but he does help small creature strategies.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've got to say, it feels strong! I've only played against UW Approach(Bo1), 4c God Pharaoh's Gift(Bo3), UW God Pharaoh's Gift(Bo3), and Mono-W Knights(Bo3). However, I won each match except for against 4c GPG(theres just so much value!)
Sometimes the deck felt a little durdlely, though that's the risk about Midrange/Control decks, drawing the wrong half. The mana was perfect though! I never found myself screwed out of a color. Also, I was usually able to activate Resplendent regularly. The combination of various life gain sources has gotten me 1-2 angels on average each game Resplendent stuck.
All and all, the build seems promising! Even if a little weak to Gift decks(currently)
I hope you guys give it a go and see what you think.
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4 Isolated Chapel
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Aether Hub
2 Evolving Wilds
6 Swamp
5 Plains
(16) Creatures
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Resplendent Angel
3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
3 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Duress
4 Fatal Push
2 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
4 Vraska's Contempt
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
1 Lich's Mastery
1 The Immortal Sun
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Treasure Map
2 Seal Away
2 Doomfall
2 Fumigate
1 Duress
1 Sorcerers Spyglass
I know, rare.dec, still looks decent. The inspiration to build this was that sweet new Angel and wanting to do SOMETHING with Lich's Mastery. It kind of took off from there and the deck almost organically built itself. A good thing, to be sure, but also a bad because it makes all the pieces feel more important.
Current curve:
7
9
7
8
2
2
What do y'all think?
-----------------------------------
Against heavy aggro I could see going
-3 Duress
-1 Vraska's Contempt
+2 Seal Away
+2 Fumigate
Against Heavy Control I'd maybe be at
-4 Fatal Push
-2 Cast Down
-4 Resplendent Angel
-1 Aethersphere Harvester
+1 Sorcerers Spyglass
+1 Duress
+4 Scrapheap Scrounger
+3 Treasure Map
+2 Doomfall
-2 Forsaken Sanctuary
+2 Evolving Wilds
It can give me basics to activate Chapel. It can turn on Fatal Push. Plus it's a card in the yard if I get Mastery out. All wins.
-2 Cast Down
+2 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
Additional lifegain for Resplendent Angel. Energy for various energy hungry cards. A permanent or card in the yard for Mastery. Wins.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
HoK is a fine card and does work well on curve, but Harvester acts as a brick wall against aggressive decks with its high toughness and lifegain. Plus if I remove all my lifegain cards I may as well remove Resplendent Angel and that card is just too sweet.
I want to give The Immortal Sun a chance to shine before I think about adding Planeswalkers since I can't run both in the same deck.
2BB for contempt and 3WW for lyra along with BB for aetherborn and 1WW for angel. I just dont see how you wont get set behind. Even if you do have the colors, they will be coming in tapped awkwardly. If you decide to take out the sun (i think its real bad) put in gideon and lilly.
Gideon and Lily are amazing cards. Ive just got a feeling about Immortal Sun and, to me, it seems quite strong while fitting the overall gameplan and nature of the deck.
Color requirements are met, they're fine. As far as taplands go, I only have a total of 6 potential EBT lands with as few as 3 guaranteed in the deck. That's really not a lot and while it could be better I don't view it as backbreaking at the moment. Testing is needed to confirm or deny. Though I will say it's ironic to say color requirements are greedy before suggesting to make them even more so. Lol
Let's look at a list of goals that any 75 needs to have in order to hang in the current meta.
-Resilent enough to outlast and win against R/x aggressive decks.
This goal is mostly tackled in the MD with ample lifegain and removal compounded with effective creatures. I should have no real issue reaching the lategame against those decks.
-Aggressive enough to win against various flavors of control.
With a cheap and aggressive threat suite it should be possible to get under controls iron curtain. All cards require an answer, spreading their counterspells too thin with Shalai shutting down spot removal. The SB gives even more answers against pure control decks with recursive creatures, CA, and ways to interrupt their game plan.
TL;DR version
I feel the deck as it stands is meeting or exceeding the goals I have set for it. While it may be 'greedy' in terms of color requirements the math shows it's fine and only testing as this point can tell otherwise. It allows me to test 'build-around' cards like Mastery, Sun, and Resplendent Angel.
Cast Out is a suggestion I can get behind. Still instant speed and more versatile than Contempt. I may have been blinded by Contempts life gain clause.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm building this for my kid to play so i'm definitely invested as well. Hes all on board the RA train for some reason.
The biggest swinger of the set, honestly. No one is really playing it right now online because of the competition from History of Benalia and all the removal people are using coincidentally also hitting the angel.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
History v RA...i guess its just play style preference atm. Neither is drastically impactful in the current game state.
I guess I like RA because I lean more towards Johnny than Spike. She just looks so fun! Plus, I plan on making a Janky GW deck with the same Angel core also so I need to get them either way.
I do fight the same mindset that a creature should be immediately impactful when it hits the board, especially if the deck doesn't have recursion.
About M19, while there aren't any super impactful spells, it seems like there's a lot of little bumps that can push decks up the tier list and shake up the meta. I see white weenie and big white being strong, Enigma Drake decks are getting a big boost with Guttersnipe and Banefire. U/x Artifact decks are getting a nice bump along with Zombie tribel decks. Whether or not it can significantly change the meta, I don't know, but I hope so.
FYI Benalia sees more play because the card requires multiple removal spells to deal with and anthems the board. Even if the opponent kills it you still got a token out of it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Forsaken Sanctuary
2x Ifnir Deadlands
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Plains
1x Reliquary Tower
6x Swamp
Instant (2)
2x Vraska's Contempt
Creature (15)
4x Diamond Mare
4x Gifted Aetherborn
1x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2x Lyra Dawnbringer
4x Noxious Gearhulk
4x Arguel's Blood Fast Flip
4x Ashes of the Abhorrent
2x Lich's Mastery
Artifact (4)
2x Aethersphere Harvester
2x Thran Temporal Gateway
Sorcery (4)
4x Fumigate
1x Chaos Wand
4x Duress
4x Fatal Push
2x Invoke the Divine
4x Ravenous Chupacabra
Equally unrefined, but keying on the idea of controlling the game until Lich's Mastery takes over.
How useful is Temporal Gateway? I only see 5 Historic cards that cost more than its activation. I've also never seen Ashes of the Abhorrent being used. Is it very effective? I suppose shutting down Scrapheap and various embalm creatures could be beneficial.
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
8 Island
8 Plains
Enchantments
3 Cast Out
4 Compulsory Rest
4 Favorable Winds
Planeswalkers
3 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Dauntless Bodyguard
2 Departed Deckhand
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Remorseful Reverend
4 Resplendent Angel
3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Siren Stormtamer
3 Admiral's Order
2 Ashes of the Abhorrent
2 Invoke the Divine
3 Negate
3 Seal Away
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
I like trying out different things with it since the card has a few different features of interest. To me, the card is a better Aerial Responder. Even if you take away the angel token line, it's a 3/3 flying. I was going more a mid-range approach, but looking on it I may just swap into a lower cost UW fliers listing and not even worry so much about all the angels.
Also I'm testing Departed Deckhand. Oddly enough, it works with Ajani and other +1/+1 counter generators since it has to be a spell that targets, not an ability. So you can do fun stuff like throw a bunch of Gearhulk tokens onto it or have Ajani put some more power onto it with no issues. That and it's effectively unblockable because no one is running spirits.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1)Compulsory Rest
Would Seal Away not be better since it doesn't have a chance to gain your opponent life?
2)Karn
I get that he's CA. Without Oath of Teferi though it's super slow CA. With no benefit to your deck with his other abilities.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You count wrong. There are 8 historic cards costing 5+, and the prime reason for playing it is a the combo of dropping Lich's Mastery after their combat step, so you don't have to immediately sacrifice stuff from the first attack. Ashes, I should probably cut. There are a few targets, but I only put it in for the incidental lifegain when things die. There must be something more useful for that slot.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Aether Hub
2 Evolving Wilds
7 Swamp
4 Plains
(16) Creatures
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Resplendent Angel
3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
3 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Duress
4 Fatal Push
2 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
2 Cast Out
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
1 Lich's Mastery
1 The Immortal Sun
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Treasure Map
2 Seal Away
2 Doomfall
2 Fumigate
1 Duress
1 Sorcerers Spyglass
I've got to say, it feels strong! I've only played against UW Approach(Bo1), 4c God Pharaoh's Gift(Bo3), UW God Pharaoh's Gift(Bo3), and Mono-W Knights(Bo3). However, I won each match except for against 4c GPG(theres just so much value!)
Sometimes the deck felt a little durdlely, though that's the risk about Midrange/Control decks, drawing the wrong half. The mana was perfect though! I never found myself screwed out of a color. Also, I was usually able to activate Resplendent regularly. The combination of various life gain sources has gotten me 1-2 angels on average each game Resplendent stuck.
All and all, the build seems promising! Even if a little weak to Gift decks(currently)
I hope you guys give it a go and see what you think.