Hey guys!
I'm currently tuning a list that takes advantage of the best threats that Red and White have to offer, most being legendary, which will matter. The goal of the deck is to control the board state for turns 1-3 and then start dropping heavy duty threats on turn 4-5, while having enough removal to keep major threats from the opponent from being too much of a problem. I'll discuss my choices for each casting cost slot and then will post the overall decklist. Would love some feedback and for anyone that tries the deck or their own list I would love to hear what works and what doesn't.
1 Drops:
No 1 drops in the deck. Can't really see what would slot in here for the main deck, especially at the cost of cutting something.
2 Drops: Abrade
I was running 4 abrade at one point, lately went down to 2, but maybe 3 is a sweet spot. I really wanted to get some more late game power so I made the cuts but with the resurgence of GFG decks maybe at least 3 are necessary. I do have 2 more in the board.
Tormenting Voice
The deck definitely needs some early card draw to make land drops and find threats and I'm pretty much always happy to draw or keep a hand with Voice in it. It's another card that I would love to find room for a 3rd copy, just don't know what should go to make room for it.
Heart of Kiran
With Gideon coming down on turn 3 (plus Chandra lurking in the later game), turn 2 Kiran seems like a great play, although I feel like it's been slightly underwhelming. I've actually considered cutting it, partially because I feel that maybe 8 walkers and the possibility of a quick turn 3 swing off Gideon isn't enough to warrant the space. I'm keeping it for now, but I could see myself cutting the 2 copies in favor of another Voice and Abrade for the main.
3 Drops: Gideon of the Trials
One of the best walkers in standard and definitely a great 3 drop. Gideon buys us tons of time and forces our opponent to attack it enough to deal with it, while keeping us from getting roughed up too much in the early game. Gives Kiran a way to attack or block early and can get in for solid beats after a Settle or Blast clears the way of chumpers.
Sweltering Suns
Lots of decks running low cost and low toughness creatures in Standard. I will say that I've considered cutting from 3 to 2, because the card isn't that great against GFG decks since it just fills their graveyard faster. However it does cycle, so I'm still on the fence.
4 Drops: Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Obvious inclusion is obvious, Chandra is still one of the best walkers in Standard. Given how many 5 drops I'm running, I end up using her mana plus a lot to get me over a missed 5th land in order to bring in big daddy 'Bringer on schedule.
Cast Out
I was running a mix between cast out and binding, given that I mostly wanted to be tapping out turn 4, but obviously instant speed removal is great, and having cast out means people won't be as suspicious when attacking into 4 open mana when I want to cast settle. The cycle helps smooth out early draws as well.
Settle the Wreckage
Great removal spell, and really opens things up for us to take over the mid to late game.
Rekindling Phoenix
This is a recent addition because I wanted to up my threat count with something that either flew and had haste, or flew and was hard to remove with a cost of 4 or less, and phoenix slots into that role quite well. Haven't played it enough to know if it's really good enough, but the few times I've gotten it out, it definitely felt good.
Verix Bladewing
I added this instead of a 3rd phoenix, mainly because it's legendary, so it lives through urza's blast (while also allowing me to cast it) and it's a solid late game draw if you have the mana to kick it, especially with chandra helping out. It may actually be better than phoenix for this slot, I'm just not sure yet.
5 Drops: Glorybringer
Another obvious inclusion, this card basically makes the deck, it does everything you want to be doing for 5 mana, killing things, being hasty, and flying over things to kill annoying planeswalkers. Would play 8 if I could.
Lyra Dawnbringer
New Baneslayer is just a game ender if she lives, and being legendary, she also dodges blast. A simple must answer threat.
Thanks for reading and hope to get some good ideas from everyone! I really want to make this deck as strong as it can be, I've done very well vs the decks I've seen since Dominaria coming out and a little tuning goes a long way!
Played a few more matches today and won them all, against 2 builds of RD monsters (Games went very smoothly, pretty certain RW is the better "big threat" deck) and an Overwhelming Splendor deck that was quite interesting but had a very hard time dealing with Urza's Blast. I'm going to look into recording some of my matches, or at least record some of the replays and find a way to post them here.
I really think that maybe Rekindling Phoenix is not as good as Verix Bladewing. It seems crazy that it matters that much for a 1 of card, but getting stuck not being able to cast Urza's Ruinous Blast for multiple turns can really hurt, especially when I removed fumigate to run it. Also in the later game, Bladewing is certainly a better draw. And while Phoenix can be annoying, it doesn't always return like you want it to, with your opponent either killing the token or exiling the graveyard. I thihnk I might go for 2 Bladewing and 1 Phoenix for now and see how I feel about it.
I also don;t feel that the sideboard is very optimized atm, but it's an area I've always had trouble with, made worse by the meta not really being fleshed out yet since Dominaria release.
I wanted to try and maintain some early-game threats to improve game 1 against control decks. The deck has been testing pretty well. What are your thoughts?
There are some interesting synergies in this build.
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Standard decks:
Wr Midrange
Mono white aggro
WR aggro
I wanted to try and maintain some early-game threats to improve game 1 against control decks. The deck has been testing pretty well. What are your thoughts?
There are some interesting synergies in this build.
yeah I would definitely say that your build packs an earlier punch. You've got earlier creatures so I'm ok with less copies of Gideon, but I'd still probably want 2. Not sure if servo exhibition is actually worth it over including some more removal like another seal away or abrade, and I definitely think for a more aggro build glory-bound initiate is one of the best 2 drops you can have, and I would probably run 3 or 4. History of Benalia is a great 3 drop, I'm not sure how consistently I could play Benalish Marshal turn 3, but looking at the manabase, I guess it would be ok. If I'm going for a more aggro creature build, I think I would probably run Aerial Responder. Great attacker and blocker and the lifegain can really help keep you out of danger. In your 4 slot, I certainly would run 4 cast out over Vance's Blasting Cannons, I don't think you can really afford to take a turn off to play it without direct board impact, and I don't see it flipping that consistently. Or doing a 3 and 1 mix of cast out and settle the wreckage. Painful for me to see no Chandra here, I get she doesn't necessarily fit the tempo of this deck as much, but I would still say it's way better to have than Huatli, especially if you have more creatures to protect her. Regardless of the build I would say that Glorybringer is just a must, the card has won about 70% of my matches, it's just such a problem for most decks and nearly impossible to beat in multiples without a wrath. Sideboard seems decent, again not an area I'm very comfortable with. I do like relentless raptor, had forgotten about that card, and will probably slot it into my own sideboard. If I was going to run a more aggro beats version, I think mine would look something like this:
Couldn't say how it would go without testing it more, but maybe you can get a few things to test from that and find a mix of the 2, or maybe yours might just be straight better, just go with where you feel the weak and strong points you've had from testing.
Played against some interesting matchups today, I dropped 1 to hardcore UW control that I drew pretty badly on, deck still feels great. Think I'm definitely going to drop the Phoenix for 2 BladeWing total and go up to 3 Voice. Screenshot from one of my matches today, turn 5 Ghalta not good enough my friend! Didn't even need the Lyras
Little bit of an update. Tuning the list has been going well, I've added a few new pieces that are really bringing everything together. After seeing Karn, Scion of Urza run amok in the format, it just became obvious that I needed to find a place in the list for him. I tried out just 1 copy, and it added a lot, so I added another and a 3rd in the board. The card draw just improves the consistency and also Karn just soaks up tons of damage and also acts a target for vraska's contempt or never/return which paves the way for me to land other more direct threats. I slimmed down on cards that were having less direct impact like sweltering suns and abrade and added things that have more utility like another tormenting voice and seal away. Some of the biggest changes I made have been in the sideboard. I dropped the regal caracals because they were proving to be too slow and not enough impact for the matchup they were slotted for which is the red aggro decks. Same thing with glorybound initate, it just wasn't having enough impact before dying. I also added some forsake the worldly just for the exile effect for cards like scrapheap scrounger. I put more top end threats in there as well, an angel of invention (works really well with Lyra) and a few rekindling phoenix. Another big addition was sorcerous spyglass which most routinely targets Teferi.
The best thing I've discovered is the deck has a good red deck matchup, and given the results of the pro tour I think that's a solid place to be. As always, any comments an ideas are helpful and appreciated, and here's my current list:
What would this do in his list? The only spell that is relevant to the first mode is Sweltering Suns, and the only card that is relevant to the second mode is 1 Fumigate.
What would this do in his list? The only spell that is relevant to the first mode is Sweltering Suns, and the only card that is relevant to the second mode is 1 Fumigate.
I was partly being sarcastic. However, I really want to make him work. It is a stretch goal of mine.
This looks like the most solid iteration of Boros i've seen so far. Early game interaction with spells and gideon and then a boat load of bombs later. I think i would put in heart of kiran tho. If you are running the gideon/shalai, its a great way to attack thru stuff you wouldn't want ur shalai to face.
I'm currently tuning a list that takes advantage of the best threats that Red and White have to offer, most being legendary, which will matter. The goal of the deck is to control the board state for turns 1-3 and then start dropping heavy duty threats on turn 4-5, while having enough removal to keep major threats from the opponent from being too much of a problem. I'll discuss my choices for each casting cost slot and then will post the overall decklist. Would love some feedback and for anyone that tries the deck or their own list I would love to hear what works and what doesn't.
1 Drops:
No 1 drops in the deck. Can't really see what would slot in here for the main deck, especially at the cost of cutting something.
2 Drops:
Abrade
I was running 4 abrade at one point, lately went down to 2, but maybe 3 is a sweet spot. I really wanted to get some more late game power so I made the cuts but with the resurgence of GFG decks maybe at least 3 are necessary. I do have 2 more in the board.
Tormenting Voice
The deck definitely needs some early card draw to make land drops and find threats and I'm pretty much always happy to draw or keep a hand with Voice in it. It's another card that I would love to find room for a 3rd copy, just don't know what should go to make room for it.
Heart of Kiran
With Gideon coming down on turn 3 (plus Chandra lurking in the later game), turn 2 Kiran seems like a great play, although I feel like it's been slightly underwhelming. I've actually considered cutting it, partially because I feel that maybe 8 walkers and the possibility of a quick turn 3 swing off Gideon isn't enough to warrant the space. I'm keeping it for now, but I could see myself cutting the 2 copies in favor of another Voice and Abrade for the main.
3 Drops:
Gideon of the Trials
One of the best walkers in standard and definitely a great 3 drop. Gideon buys us tons of time and forces our opponent to attack it enough to deal with it, while keeping us from getting roughed up too much in the early game. Gives Kiran a way to attack or block early and can get in for solid beats after a Settle or Blast clears the way of chumpers.
Sweltering Suns
Lots of decks running low cost and low toughness creatures in Standard. I will say that I've considered cutting from 3 to 2, because the card isn't that great against GFG decks since it just fills their graveyard faster. However it does cycle, so I'm still on the fence.
4 Drops:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Obvious inclusion is obvious, Chandra is still one of the best walkers in Standard. Given how many 5 drops I'm running, I end up using her mana plus a lot to get me over a missed 5th land in order to bring in big daddy 'Bringer on schedule.
Cast Out
I was running a mix between cast out and binding, given that I mostly wanted to be tapping out turn 4, but obviously instant speed removal is great, and having cast out means people won't be as suspicious when attacking into 4 open mana when I want to cast settle. The cycle helps smooth out early draws as well.
Settle the Wreckage
Great removal spell, and really opens things up for us to take over the mid to late game.
Rekindling Phoenix
This is a recent addition because I wanted to up my threat count with something that either flew and had haste, or flew and was hard to remove with a cost of 4 or less, and phoenix slots into that role quite well. Haven't played it enough to know if it's really good enough, but the few times I've gotten it out, it definitely felt good.
Verix Bladewing
I added this instead of a 3rd phoenix, mainly because it's legendary, so it lives through urza's blast (while also allowing me to cast it) and it's a solid late game draw if you have the mana to kick it, especially with chandra helping out. It may actually be better than phoenix for this slot, I'm just not sure yet.
5 Drops:
Glorybringer
Another obvious inclusion, this card basically makes the deck, it does everything you want to be doing for 5 mana, killing things, being hasty, and flying over things to kill annoying planeswalkers. Would play 8 if I could.
Lyra Dawnbringer
New Baneslayer is just a game ender if she lives, and being legendary, she also dodges blast. A simple must answer threat.
Sideboard:
Main problems for the deck tend to be faster decks like mono red, so you get Authority of the Consuls Glory-Bound Initiate and Regal Caracal to help there, plus another Urza's Ruinous Blast for other mid-range decks and decks that lean on cast out and binding, some hasty creatures like Ahn-Crop Crasher to help speed in damage on control decks (Glory-Bound Initiate helps in this regard too) and some Abrade and Crook of Condemnationto help against GFG decks. (Blast also helps here a lot).
Mana Base:
Some cycling lands, every land that produces RW except the pure taplands, and some Scavenger Grounds for GFG and Scarab God decks.
4 Gideon of the Trials
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creatures:
2 Rekindling Phoenix
1 Verix Bladewing
4 Glorybringer
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
Artifacts:
2 Heart of Kiran
Spells:
2 Abrade
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Sweltering Suns
3 Settle the Wreckage
4 Cast Out
1 Urza's Ruinous Blast
2 Desert of the True
8 Plains
6 Mountain
2 Scavenger Grounds
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Regal Caracal
3 Glory-Bound Initiate
3 Authority of the Consuls
1 Urza's Ruinous Blast
2 Abrade
1 Crook of Condemnation
2 Ahn-Crop Crasher
1 Ixalan's Binding
Thanks for reading and hope to get some good ideas from everyone! I really want to make this deck as strong as it can be, I've done very well vs the decks I've seen since Dominaria coming out and a little tuning goes a long way!
I really think that maybe Rekindling Phoenix is not as good as Verix Bladewing. It seems crazy that it matters that much for a 1 of card, but getting stuck not being able to cast Urza's Ruinous Blast for multiple turns can really hurt, especially when I removed fumigate to run it. Also in the later game, Bladewing is certainly a better draw. And while Phoenix can be annoying, it doesn't always return like you want it to, with your opponent either killing the token or exiling the graveyard. I thihnk I might go for 2 Bladewing and 1 Phoenix for now and see how I feel about it.
I also don;t feel that the sideboard is very optimized atm, but it's an area I've always had trouble with, made worse by the meta not really being fleshed out yet since Dominaria release.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/1074881
I wanted to try and maintain some early-game threats to improve game 1 against control decks. The deck has been testing pretty well. What are your thoughts?
There are some interesting synergies in this build.
Wr Midrange
Mono white aggro
WR aggro
Modern decks:
Naya burn
Bushwhacker zoo
8 Whack
Legacy decks:
Burn
yeah I would definitely say that your build packs an earlier punch. You've got earlier creatures so I'm ok with less copies of Gideon, but I'd still probably want 2. Not sure if servo exhibition is actually worth it over including some more removal like another seal away or abrade, and I definitely think for a more aggro build glory-bound initiate is one of the best 2 drops you can have, and I would probably run 3 or 4. History of Benalia is a great 3 drop, I'm not sure how consistently I could play Benalish Marshal turn 3, but looking at the manabase, I guess it would be ok. If I'm going for a more aggro creature build, I think I would probably run Aerial Responder. Great attacker and blocker and the lifegain can really help keep you out of danger. In your 4 slot, I certainly would run 4 cast out over Vance's Blasting Cannons, I don't think you can really afford to take a turn off to play it without direct board impact, and I don't see it flipping that consistently. Or doing a 3 and 1 mix of cast out and settle the wreckage. Painful for me to see no Chandra here, I get she doesn't necessarily fit the tempo of this deck as much, but I would still say it's way better to have than Huatli, especially if you have more creatures to protect her. Regardless of the build I would say that Glorybringer is just a must, the card has won about 70% of my matches, it's just such a problem for most decks and nearly impossible to beat in multiples without a wrath. Sideboard seems decent, again not an area I'm very comfortable with. I do like relentless raptor, had forgotten about that card, and will probably slot it into my own sideboard. If I was going to run a more aggro beats version, I think mine would look something like this:
4 Knight of Grace
4 Glory-Bound Initiate
4 Benalish Marshal
3 Aerial Responder
4 Glorybringer
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
3 Seal Away
2 Abrade
3 History of Benalia
3 Cast out
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Couldn't say how it would go without testing it more, but maybe you can get a few things to test from that and find a mix of the 2, or maybe yours might just be straight better, just go with where you feel the weak and strong points you've had from testing.
Played against some interesting matchups today, I dropped 1 to hardcore UW control that I drew pretty badly on, deck still feels great. Think I'm definitely going to drop the Phoenix for 2 BladeWing total and go up to 3 Voice. Screenshot from one of my matches today, turn 5 Ghalta not good enough my friend! Didn't even need the Lyras
Little bit of an update. Tuning the list has been going well, I've added a few new pieces that are really bringing everything together. After seeing Karn, Scion of Urza run amok in the format, it just became obvious that I needed to find a place in the list for him. I tried out just 1 copy, and it added a lot, so I added another and a 3rd in the board. The card draw just improves the consistency and also Karn just soaks up tons of damage and also acts a target for vraska's contempt or never/return which paves the way for me to land other more direct threats. I slimmed down on cards that were having less direct impact like sweltering suns and abrade and added things that have more utility like another tormenting voice and seal away. Some of the biggest changes I made have been in the sideboard. I dropped the regal caracals because they were proving to be too slow and not enough impact for the matchup they were slotted for which is the red aggro decks. Same thing with glorybound initate, it just wasn't having enough impact before dying. I also added some forsake the worldly just for the exile effect for cards like scrapheap scrounger. I put more top end threats in there as well, an angel of invention (works really well with Lyra) and a few rekindling phoenix. Another big addition was sorcerous spyglass which most routinely targets Teferi.
The best thing I've discovered is the deck has a good red deck matchup, and given the results of the pro tour I think that's a solid place to be. As always, any comments an ideas are helpful and appreciated, and here's my current list:
4 Gideon of the Trials
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
Creatures:
1 Verix Bladewing
4 Glorybringer
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
Artifacts:
2 Heart of Kiran
Spells:
3 Tormenting Voice
2 Sweltering Suns
3 Settle the Wreckage
3 Cast Out
3 Seal Away
1 Fumigate
2 Desert of the True
6 Plains
4 Mountain
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Field of Ruin
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Stone Quarry
2 Authority of the Consuls
1 Crook of Condemnation
1 Ixalan's Binding
2 Forsake the Worldly
1 Seal Away
1 Angel of Inventionn
1 Karn, Scion of Uzra
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Fumigate
2 Rekindling Phoenix
Glorious End.
What would this do in his list? The only spell that is relevant to the first mode is Sweltering Suns, and the only card that is relevant to the second mode is 1 Fumigate.
I was partly being sarcastic. However, I really want to make him work. It is a stretch goal of mine.
4 Resplendent Angel
2 Rekindling Phoenix
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Glorybringer
Planeswalkers
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells
4 Lightning Strike
4 Abrade
4 Seal Away
3 Sweltering Suns
4 Cast Out
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Inspiring Vantage
7 Mountain
6 Plains
4 Stone Quarry
1 Banefire
1 Cleansing Nova
1 Forsake the Worldly
1 Ixalan's Binding
2 Magma Spray
4 Remorseful Cleric
1 Scavenger Grounds
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sweltering Suns
Wr Midrange
Mono white aggro
WR aggro
Modern decks:
Naya burn
Bushwhacker zoo
8 Whack
Legacy decks:
Burn