Destiny is a do nothing card in the early game, I went down to 2 copies and it's way better that way.
Aetherborn eventually makes the cut, which is good news for everyone.
I cut the Gideons and instead let Mavren make the cut. The reason behind him was I needed more board presence to win the midrange mirrors, and it really helps flipping Landing against control (a big step in the right direction for that kind of MU).
I added a few Sanctuaries because 20 lands was a bit greedy. Now I can double spell in a single turn more easily and it helps with mulligans. 22 is a nice spot.
I'm finally happy to be able to give the best vampires I had let down to begin with the credit and the slots they deserve !
The SB is the same so far, I couldn't test the SB wraths enough to give feedback. The maindeck is quite solid though, nothing stands out as being a noticeable mistake to me.
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I played some vamp lists now that are using Twilight Prophet. That card is actually rather good assuming they get 10 permanents on the field, which isn't really hard in vampires. I actually think it may be a key part in giving some more control oriented deck mid to late game gas and also a tool to help against control builds like UW approach. Also Duress...
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't know man, Prophet has been rather weak for me. It's not impactful in combat besides the evasion, it does nothing when etb or ltb... and the card is very slow, while even UW Approach or UB Control can win rather quickly (we're not quite in the Nephalia Drownyard era anymore, lül).
The most suspect card to me is Fatal Push as a 4-of. I'm almost certain it's incorrect, and I could easily cut 2 so I have less dead cards G1 VS control decks (and honestly it's pretty dead VS midrange decks where most impactful creatures cost 3 and more). Duress is in the opposite side of things, it can be dead in creature MUs, but it's definitely a consideration. A 4th Thopter Arrest is also a thing, it's the cleanest answer to such a wide spread variety of creatures in the format. Walk the Plank doesn't hit the expected merfs and doesn't deal with Scarab and Hazoret, the 2 strongest creatures on both MU extremes. Never / Return sucks in that regard too.
I have 4 Duress, 2 Scavenger Grounds and 2 Lost Legacy, so post-SB I'm prepared for those pesky control MUs, but it's desperate G1 unless I have an aggro start, which happens once in a while, but not consistently enough.
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Baffling End is a possible replacement to Push, but not to Arrest. Arrest hits Scarab, Hazoret, Glorybringer, Angel of Invention, all relevant dinos, Gearhulks. These are basically all the permanents that can go over the top of a vamp strat. A removal spell that can't deal with those is actually debatable in the main deck !
Binding and Cast Out and Contempt cost 4 for the same range of targets as Arrest, so I don't see them being better (despite their respective bonus), since they can't be played early enough VS aggro. The metagame has to show off some enchantments and PWs to be all-stars before I bring any 4-cmc removal spell. Wait & See whether Chandra, Vraska, Climb and such things become unbeatable for a vampire deck.
Arrest is in the perfect spot (as Hero's Downfall would be) at 3cmc, cheap enough to be acceptable VS aggro and powerful enough to hit midrange and control finishers. Baffling End may be a better card than Push in the main deck though. The deck pretty much plays everything main phase, and the lack of good enough instant interaction might be what leaves the deck behind. No Harnessed Lightning, no Disallow, and when I think about it... no big finisher either !
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I don't know man, Prophet has been rather weak for me. It's not impactful in combat besides the evasion, it does nothing when etb or ltb... and the card is very slow, while even UW Approach or UB Control can win rather quickly (we're not quite in the Nephalia Drownyard era anymore, lül).
The most suspect card to me is Fatal Push as a 4-of. I'm almost certain it's incorrect, and I could easily cut 2 so I have less dead cards G1 VS control decks (and honestly it's pretty dead VS midrange decks where most impactful creatures cost 3 and more). Duress is in the opposite side of things, it can be dead in creature MUs, but it's definitely a consideration. A 4th Thopter Arrest is also a thing, it's the cleanest answer to such a wide spread variety of creatures in the format. Walk the Plank doesn't hit the expected merfs and doesn't deal with Scarab and Hazoret, the 2 strongest creatures on both MU extremes. Never / Return sucks in that regard too.
I have 4 Duress, 2 Scavenger Grounds and 2 Lost Legacy, so post-SB I'm prepared for those pesky control MUs, but it's desperate G1 unless I have an aggro start, which happens once in a while, but not consistently enough.
I've never seen any vampire deck run more than two of them because they are best when the game goes long. The split they've gone with is usually 3 Sanctum Seeker and 2 Twilight Prophet.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Maybe try it as a one of, but the selling point on the Twilight Prophet is that it is a 2/4 body that flies. That and the drains do help assuming they go online, and usually it does go online late game. I still think hidden stockpile type builds make better use of the prophet since they are more resilient to board wipes, thus keeping more permanents on the field. However, even in vampires Legion's Landing is two permanents on one body and martyr of dusk along with Adanto Vanguard are hard to remove, so it's not that hard to have 10 permanents on turns 5-6.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Bishop unfortunately dies to anything, then gives the creature back. The upside occurs only if it attacks, giving the opponent the possiblity to kill it in combat. As a 1/2, it would at least survived Walking Ballista and Fanatical Firebrand. As a 1/3 it would've dodged Magma Spray that is played in every red midrange deck order to deal with the Scarab God, Earthshaker Khenra and so on. As is, it's plain bad.
What about Vanquisher's Banner at the top of the curve ? Too slow ?
Yup, 5 mana is tough. Radiant Destiny as a 3-cmc do-nothing card is already something you don't need in every game.
Seeing the results of the SCG open in Dallas, I believe Settle the Wreckage becomes the better SB wrath over Dusk // Dawn and cie.
We saw Heart of Kiran, Rekindling Phoenix, Rhonas the Indomitable, also Merfolk, Rx Aggro and Mardu Vehicles having a decent amount of success (decks with small creatures & an incentive to attack with several critters).
Besides that, I will play 4 Thopter Arrest, 2 Ixalan's Binding, and cut all the Baffling End / Fatal Push from the main. All the cheap spot removal spells suck VS midrange and control, so I'll leave Push, End, Walk the Plank and such in the SB at best. I'm thinking of a card I have no experience with in those slots though : Inspiring Cleric.
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I think that having cheap removal in the maindeck is still worth it for curve considerations as casting expensive removal prevents us from advancing the board.
The difference between Radiant Destiny and Vanquisher's Banner is the card draw and Vampires have better creatures at 3-mana than at 4-mana (which the Banner can replace imho).
Being vulnerable to Abrade is a real downside though.
I neglected Forsaken Chapel because an aggro deck just can't work on a tap land, but i might be wrong, the win conditions seem to be black, while the better early game seems to whtie (I'm thinking of switching Gifted with Adanto Vangaurd) But i feel that's too man white two drops, but aetherbrone is BB so that makes it more complicated
I bumped to three legions landing and 3 duskborne Skymarcher iknstead of 2/4 i had before, landing can cause ascension easier giving you 2 permanents for 1 but skymarcher triggers Mavren better then Skymarcher Aspirant The problem here is twilight prophet I'm running one, but i have 2, is she good enough? Good toughness, flying, could potentaly drain 3 life 1/4 times by that point in the game and gives you a bonus card, would be good in grindy matches
Martyr of dusk he replaces himself, 2 power, good for ascend to trigger twilight prophet, should I split him with Vangaurd to get that 3 power aggro that i can pay life to keep alive so good for devotion and the hopefully game winning swing with sanctum seeker Liking having ascend doesn't have to totally depend on prophet, it can help seeker, which i belive is the main win condition of this deck
Dusk Legion Zelot I've heard mixed opinions about this guy, but i think he's ok, running 1 unless someone can make the case that he is a 4 of
Legion Lieutenant I'm going to try a 4 of him first, he seems really good, good for when you have to go wide, better than Metallic mimic in my opinion because you can drop him on turn 4 and get 3 extra power, he's not restricted to being only really good as a two drop
Gifted Aetherborne Definitely wanted to keep him, this guy changes the board 50% of the time his BB is a little restrictive but he's really good.
Queens Commission I perfer this to Call to the feast because i can turn 3 this into sanctum seeker, attack with a potentially 3/2, and three 2/2's and drain for 4
Front Runner of the Legioni debated this guy alot but, imm thinking I could grab my close be him Seeker, Bishop or Twilight whichever would win me the game, what do you think
Sanctum Seeker if you don't get wiped, a rarity on turn 4, but you could drain so much with this guy he seems to be the best win condition so I really want to put him at 4 i'm just having trouble finding a store with one but people have told me that you don't need 4 of a card you could draw into too soon
Twilight Prophet i own 2, is this a card you have to build around, buy 4 of, i opened one at pre release and it just got killed immediately but i feel like blessing can be easy to get with this deck
1 Cast Out I perfer flash to ixalan, because this deck has such a fast clock maybe that one extra turn could let you get though
1 bishop of the bloodstained The biggest drop in the deck, I feel like he's the one I have to explain most, I pulled out Vona, Butcher of Magan because she just dies to glorybringer but with bannings could that be less popular? The deck is very heavy aggro so there could be situations where you just resolve him and win with the 3 drain just casting him near the end of the game could get you, and with the ability to both pull him, and pump him, by casting Forerunnner of the legion Puts him as the single 5 drop in my deck
I don't really have a sideboard yet, my meta is heavy in control and I only beat it with Duresss so I wan to run 4 of those
I also have 2 whole playsets of both the black and white pain desert Shefet Dunes to go wide and gain a ton of life and Ifnir Deadlands to remove chumps for the big swing, you have some pretty good life gain in this deck so the pain is minimal, so why not run 4 of each
So that's what i'm running right now, haven't tested it but would like some pointers
Is it possible to play thia deck as a midrange deck? I mean, Both W and B has the best removal. Lower the creature count to 16-20 (Preferably all Life Linkers with Vona being the top of the curve) add Live Fast and Arguel's Bloodfast as card draw (live fast for energy for Aether Hub to smooth out the mana) and Radiant Destiny with a bunch of removal. Idk spitballing some other ideas. Aggro seems lack luster, I think there is more to this deck. Play cards that pay life and a bunch of lifelinkers seems like on theme ways to win.
It is possible but personally, Aggro BW Vampires are or can be on the same level as Mono Black Aggro and Merfolk. While BW Midrange just isn't at all on the same level as Grixis Midrange or BG Journey.
I've been playing many different versions of vampires because I like how you can build 6+ decks with rougly 80 different cards and have fun while the metagame settles.
Yeah, the only thing I've hated about vampires is how much they nerfed them. I've seen a lot of 1/1's at 4 cmc in the past, from Liliana's Shade to Wing Splicer, but a mythic creature that is a 1/1 and has no immediate impact on the field and basically no way to really protect itself? Elenda, the dusk rose is probably the worst 1/1 for 4 I've seen just on the basis of her being a mythic of all things. Lumberknot was an uncommon that I'd probably pick over Elendra just due to the hexproof.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah, the only thing I've hated about vampires is how much they nerfed them. I've seen a lot of 1/1's at 4 cmc in the past, from Liliana's Shade to Wing Splicer, but a mythic creature that is a 1/1 and has no immediate impact on the field and basically no way to really protect itself? Elenda, the dusk rose is probably the worst 1/1 for 4 I've seen just on the basis of her being a mythic of all things. Lumberknot was an uncommon that I'd probably pick over Elendra just due to the hexproof.
Elenda doesn't need to be protected. Having Radiant Destiny Legion Lieutenant with either Vanquisher's Banner or The Immortal Sun on the field means that they kill her you get a big board. Although Supernatural Stamina seems great with Elenda. Things to consider, Arguel's Bloodfast is great with the life linkers as steady card advantage.
Yeah, the only thing I've hated about vampires is how much they nerfed them. I've seen a lot of 1/1's at 4 cmc in the past, from Liliana's Shade to Wing Splicer, but a mythic creature that is a 1/1 and has no immediate impact on the field and basically no way to really protect itself? Elenda, the dusk rose is probably the worst 1/1 for 4 I've seen just on the basis of her being a mythic of all things. Lumberknot was an uncommon that I'd probably pick over Elendra just due to the hexproof.
Elenda doesn't need to be protected. Having Radiant Destiny Legion Lieutenant with either Vanquisher's Banner or The Immortal Sun on the field means that they kill her you get a big board. Although Supernatural Stamina seems great with Elenda. Things to consider, Arguel's Bloodfast is great with the life linkers as steady card advantage.
My point is she's a good rare, but definitely doesn't feel like she's a mythic. This feels like a case where they took a rare and just made it mythic because of draft rather than because it is good for constructed. I could see someone doing some late game play in limited with moment of triumph and a sacrifice outlet and get a whole lot of tokens that get buffed from Legion Lieutenant.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I played Saturday, and was very hesitant to play her. At 1/1 i just feel she is a waste for her high mana cost. If anything she might be good in a against potential board wipes and she could get pumped quick, then sacrificed. Just seems like too high a cost, but a limited upside.
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Destiny is a do nothing card in the early game, I went down to 2 copies and it's way better that way.
Aetherborn eventually makes the cut, which is good news for everyone.
I cut the Gideons and instead let Mavren make the cut. The reason behind him was I needed more board presence to win the midrange mirrors, and it really helps flipping Landing against control (a big step in the right direction for that kind of MU).
I added a few Sanctuaries because 20 lands was a bit greedy. Now I can double spell in a single turn more easily and it helps with mulligans. 22 is a nice spot.
I'm finally happy to be able to give the best vampires I had let down to begin with the credit and the slots they deserve !
2 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
2 Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
4 Paladin of Atonement
4 Legion Lieutenant
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Dusk Legion Zealot
4 Martyr of Dusk
2 Radiant Destiny
4 Fatal Push
3 Thopter Arrest
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
4 Shefet Dunes
4 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Plains
1 Swamp
The SB is the same so far, I couldn't test the SB wraths enough to give feedback. The maindeck is quite solid though, nothing stands out as being a noticeable mistake to me.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The most suspect card to me is Fatal Push as a 4-of. I'm almost certain it's incorrect, and I could easily cut 2 so I have less dead cards G1 VS control decks (and honestly it's pretty dead VS midrange decks where most impactful creatures cost 3 and more). Duress is in the opposite side of things, it can be dead in creature MUs, but it's definitely a consideration. A 4th Thopter Arrest is also a thing, it's the cleanest answer to such a wide spread variety of creatures in the format. Walk the Plank doesn't hit the expected merfs and doesn't deal with Scarab and Hazoret, the 2 strongest creatures on both MU extremes. Never / Return sucks in that regard too.
I have 4 Duress, 2 Scavenger Grounds and 2 Lost Legacy, so post-SB I'm prepared for those pesky control MUs, but it's desperate G1 unless I have an aggro start, which happens once in a while, but not consistently enough.
Cast Out/Vraska's Contempt/Ixalan's Binding can answer the bigger threats.
Binding and Cast Out and Contempt cost 4 for the same range of targets as Arrest, so I don't see them being better (despite their respective bonus), since they can't be played early enough VS aggro. The metagame has to show off some enchantments and PWs to be all-stars before I bring any 4-cmc removal spell. Wait & See whether Chandra, Vraska, Climb and such things become unbeatable for a vampire deck.
Arrest is in the perfect spot (as Hero's Downfall would be) at 3cmc, cheap enough to be acceptable VS aggro and powerful enough to hit midrange and control finishers.
Baffling End may be a better card than Push in the main deck though. The deck pretty much plays everything main phase, and the lack of good enough instant interaction might be what leaves the deck behind. No Harnessed Lightning, no Disallow, and when I think about it... no big finisher either !
I've never seen any vampire deck run more than two of them because they are best when the game goes long. The split they've gone with is usually 3 Sanctum Seeker and 2 Twilight Prophet.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I wonder if it is better to just go with it over any of the 4-drop vampires (S.Seeker, T.Prophet, Elenda) though Seeker is probably my favorite.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
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Naban Wizards
Yup, 5 mana is tough. Radiant Destiny as a 3-cmc do-nothing card is already something you don't need in every game.
Seeing the results of the SCG open in Dallas, I believe Settle the Wreckage becomes the better SB wrath over Dusk // Dawn and cie.
We saw Heart of Kiran, Rekindling Phoenix, Rhonas the Indomitable, also Merfolk, Rx Aggro and Mardu Vehicles having a decent amount of success (decks with small creatures & an incentive to attack with several critters).
Besides that, I will play 4 Thopter Arrest, 2 Ixalan's Binding, and cut all the Baffling End / Fatal Push from the main. All the cheap spot removal spells suck VS midrange and control, so I'll leave Push, End, Walk the Plank and such in the SB at best. I'm thinking of a card I have no experience with in those slots though : Inspiring Cleric.
I think that having cheap removal in the maindeck is still worth it for curve considerations as casting expensive removal prevents us from advancing the board.
The difference between Radiant Destiny and Vanquisher's Banner is the card draw and Vampires have better creatures at 3-mana than at 4-mana (which the Banner can replace imho).
Being vulnerable to Abrade is a real downside though.
I neglected Forsaken Chapel because an aggro deck just can't work on a tap land, but i might be wrong, the win conditions seem to be black, while the better early game seems to whtie (I'm thinking of switching Gifted with Adanto Vangaurd) But i feel that's too man white two drops, but aetherbrone is BB so that makes it more complicated
I bumped to three legions landing and 3 duskborne Skymarcher iknstead of 2/4 i had before, landing can cause ascension easier giving you 2 permanents for 1 but skymarcher triggers Mavren better then Skymarcher Aspirant The problem here is twilight prophet I'm running one, but i have 2, is she good enough? Good toughness, flying, could potentaly drain 3 life 1/4 times by that point in the game and gives you a bonus card, would be good in grindy matches
Martyr of dusk he replaces himself, 2 power, good for ascend to trigger twilight prophet, should I split him with Vangaurd to get that 3 power aggro that i can pay life to keep alive so good for devotion and the hopefully game winning swing with sanctum seeker Liking having ascend doesn't have to totally depend on prophet, it can help seeker, which i belive is the main win condition of this deck
Dusk Legion Zelot I've heard mixed opinions about this guy, but i think he's ok, running 1 unless someone can make the case that he is a 4 of
Legion Lieutenant I'm going to try a 4 of him first, he seems really good, good for when you have to go wide, better than Metallic mimic in my opinion because you can drop him on turn 4 and get 3 extra power, he's not restricted to being only really good as a two drop
Gifted Aetherborne Definitely wanted to keep him, this guy changes the board 50% of the time his BB is a little restrictive but he's really good.
Mavren Fien, Dusk Apostle Triggers mainly off the Duskborne Skymarcher but can help board stalls, giving you an extra guy
Queens Commission I perfer this to Call to the feast because i can turn 3 this into sanctum seeker, attack with a potentially 3/2, and three 2/2's and drain for 4
Front Runner of the Legioni debated this guy alot but, imm thinking I could grab my close be him Seeker, Bishop or Twilight whichever would win me the game, what do you think
Sanctum Seeker if you don't get wiped, a rarity on turn 4, but you could drain so much with this guy he seems to be the best win condition so I really want to put him at 4 i'm just having trouble finding a store with one but people have told me that you don't need 4 of a card you could draw into too soon
Twilight Prophet i own 2, is this a card you have to build around, buy 4 of, i opened one at pre release and it just got killed immediately but i feel like blessing can be easy to get with this deck
1 Cast Out I perfer flash to ixalan, because this deck has such a fast clock maybe that one extra turn could let you get though
1 bishop of the bloodstained The biggest drop in the deck, I feel like he's the one I have to explain most, I pulled out Vona, Butcher of Magan because she just dies to glorybringer but with bannings could that be less popular? The deck is very heavy aggro so there could be situations where you just resolve him and win with the 3 drain just casting him near the end of the game could get you, and with the ability to both pull him, and pump him, by casting Forerunnner of the legion Puts him as the single 5 drop in my deck
I don't really have a sideboard yet, my meta is heavy in control and I only beat it with Duresss so I wan to run 4 of those
I also have 2 whole playsets of both the black and white pain desert Shefet Dunes to go wide and gain a ton of life and Ifnir Deadlands to remove chumps for the big swing, you have some pretty good life gain in this deck so the pain is minimal, so why not run 4 of each
So that's what i'm running right now, haven't tested it but would like some pointers
I've been playing many different versions of vampires because I like how you can build 6+ decks with rougly 80 different cards and have fun while the metagame settles.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Elenda doesn't need to be protected. Having Radiant Destiny Legion Lieutenant with either Vanquisher's Banner or The Immortal Sun on the field means that they kill her you get a big board. Although Supernatural Stamina seems great with Elenda. Things to consider, Arguel's Bloodfast is great with the life linkers as steady card advantage.
My point is she's a good rare, but definitely doesn't feel like she's a mythic. This feels like a case where they took a rare and just made it mythic because of draft rather than because it is good for constructed. I could see someone doing some late game play in limited with moment of triumph and a sacrifice outlet and get a whole lot of tokens that get buffed from Legion Lieutenant.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!