Yes, they're big. They're also expensive. They're unwieldy (so far) in 3 or more colors. They don't really seem to play well with other creatures, including other dinosaurs (which seems to be very much on theme for dinosaurs).
From what we've seen of Ixalan so far, I think we're intended to play them alongside humans. If we do, we're not REALLY creating a tribal dinosaurs deck then, are we?
But I think Enrage is the thing that will set dinosaurs apart from other tribes.
What I'm hoping we see among the as-yet unspoiled cards is something to really allow us to exploit this ability to it's fullest.
Something that we could do at instant speed, on our opponent's end step for example, that with the right creatures in play allows us to search up a land, draw a card, give all dinos +1/+1, would be ideal.
An example would be a card like Seismic Shudder. Dual Shot might be the closest thing we have so far. But, basically, I'm looking for a card that says, "Enrage all dinosaurs you control." Knowing full well that that doesn't actually mean anything... yet.
Yes, they're big. They're also expensive. They're unwieldy (so far) in 3 or more colors. They don't really seem to play well with other creatures, including other dinosaurs (which seems to be very much on theme for dinosaurs).
From what we've seen of Ixalan so far, I think we're intended to play them alongside humans. If we do, we're not REALLY creating a tribal dinosaurs deck then, are we?
But I think Enrage is the thing that will set dinosaurs apart from other tribes.
What I'm hoping we see among the as-yet unspoiled cards is something to really allow us to exploit this ability to it's fullest.
Something that we could do at instant speed, on our opponent's end step for example, that with the right creatures in play allows us to search up a land, draw a card, give all dinos +1/+1, would be ideal.
An example would be a card like Seismic Shudder. Dual Shot might be the closest thing we have so far. But, basically, I'm looking for a card that says, "Enrage all dinosaurs you control." Knowing full well that that doesn't actually mean anything... yet.
The whole set is spoiled now and there's no pyroclasm or Pyrohemia so far as I am aware maybe in the next set.
For Today's spoilers, the only card I really looked twice at was Pounce. I think Savage Stomp's upsides beat the instant speed though.
I also think going full Naya is too aggressive. We definitely want to be Two Colors with a splash to keep the mana base easy and I'm starting to side with GW splash red.
Kinjalli's Caller works in the deck as well as an early blocker and a way to discount the dinosaurs we are running. The thought of someone wasting a bolt on that chumper is already hilarious. In all seriousness, though, I'm really sketchy on dinosaurs. I think they will get better assuming dominaria doesn't hate them into oblivion when Amonkhet / Kaladesh blocks rotate.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yes, they're big. They're also expensive. They're unwieldy (so far) in 3 or more colors. They don't really seem to play well with other creatures, including other dinosaurs (which seems to be very much on theme for dinosaurs).
From what we've seen of Ixalan so far, I think we're intended to play them alongside humans. If we do, we're not REALLY creating a tribal dinosaurs deck then, are we?
But I think Enrage is the thing that will set dinosaurs apart from other tribes.
What I'm hoping we see among the as-yet unspoiled cards is something to really allow us to exploit this ability to it's fullest.
Something that we could do at instant speed, on our opponent's end step for example, that with the right creatures in play allows us to search up a land, draw a card, give all dinos +1/+1, would be ideal.
An example would be a card like Seismic Shudder. Dual Shot might be the closest thing we have so far. But, basically, I'm looking for a card that says, "Enrage all dinosaurs you control." Knowing full well that that doesn't actually mean anything... yet.
I think Fiery Cannonade might be just the card your dinos will get enraged over ! It's probably also a going to a very potent sweeper against Ramunap Red - provided that deck doesn't go fully midrage.
On the upside, those are both legendary so they can only have one out at a time, and we'd still nuke everything else to the ground. The main problem ramunap red gives anyone is the Hazoret, the Fervent. Indestructible is the name of the game right now and unless a deck has an answer to that than it is going to be at a disadvantage against mono red.
Samut, the Tested is turning out to feel like she was built for enrage decks, just I'm not sure if the enrage triggers are the right ones? The two best triggers with her right now are Raptor Hatchling making a 3/3 and Ripjaw Raptor letting you draw a card. Also, her +1 ability to give double strike to a 4/5 or 3/3 is pretty good. Maybe I was worrying too much about giving things trample when double strike may be good enough? Double strike on Carnage Tyrant is basically game over.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
FYI, Rishkar, Peema Renegade works really well in the deck. I should have expected as much since we use Savage Stomp and even the upside on the ramp enchantment is a +1/+1 counter. Also those Raptor Hatchling are better than they look. Also, I'm just strait running Hour of Devastation to see how it works with the deck at the moment. My Ripjaws are usually buffed to 5/6 and when hour hits any hatchlings left flip to 3/3 tramplers and the Ripjaw gives me a card.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Does Vizier of the Menagerie have a home here? Seems like if you ramp up to him you can pull any of the big dinos.
He's good, but it's hard to find the slots to fit him in the deck right now. The main advantage that Vizier of the Menagerie brings is the ability to look at the top card of the library and cast it if it's a creature. A lot of people also miss the fact that you can do this multiple times in a row. It's not like we suddenly can't look again after casting the last card. If you combo him with Nissa, Steward of Elements than it gets even better. A lot of people under value her because she is not strait up good on her own, but with the right cards she is pretty insane. Just wish we got that one mana elvish mystic.
... Actually, that Vizier is insane in this deck. Remember how we got 8 mana discount guys? Combo that with Rishkar, Peema Renegade and then have Vizier. Assuming they all stick, that could win the game via board state.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, the "Big Dinos" lists (running 8-10 ramp cards and between 4 and 8 6+ drops) certainly do go big enough - and your Enrage synergy list isn't exactly immun to Fumigate, either because destroying creatures doesn't damage them.
I don't disagree that my list is bad. It is bad.
However, these lists that plan on playing mana dorks that only ramp you into dinos, only play dino threats, and play removal spells that only deal with a portion of the format are, quite honestly, very bad midrange decks.
My list (yes, while bad) has threats that live through Fumigate are mana dumps in board stalls, and will kill through a board stall.
What do these other lists do in board stalls? Honestly? I don't really see what.
You will end up in a board stall -- these lists have 0 evasion and have 0 business trying to play trumpet blasts that do give them evasion. They aren't fast enough to beat a Torrential Gearhulk deck, can't beat a The Scarab God ever, and look weak to God Pharaoh's Gift (excluding the intelligent few packing Abrades in the MD).
These lists "go big" enough?
I find this unlikely.
Going "big" enough requires that you repeatable ways to decimate your opponents board or kill your opponent the turn you slam your threats. Dragonlord Atarka did this. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger did this. Playing a bunch of non-impactful ramp cards so you can have a payoff that puts a bunch of vanilla bodies into play (with haste, I guess) is not relevant.
Also, Wakening Sun's Avatar looks necessary for these decks trying to go big. It's very expensive, but wrathing your opponents board seems like it's where you're going to have to be if you want to win prolonged creature MUs.
I agree with you. However, at this stage playing around and understanding the synergy of the cards is important. The deck needs answers to the existing champions that don't lose anything to rotation. Temur Energy, GR Pummeller, Ramunap Red, UR / Grixis Control, etc, are all going to be problematic out the gate for any new strategy. My own Deserts Deck beats some of the field via just having so many removal spells and running the big guns Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Gideon of the Trials, but it still isn't on the same level as the T1 strategies. (I'll post my list for that deck if anyone is interested, I got it from SbMTG so technically it is "his" deck, but once I figure out some ways to break it in and make it homey it will be my deck. Plus it uses sleeves I bought. )
Cards that must absolutely be in the deck for handling the meta:
1) Cast Out -> Weapon against Control decks and big things we don't like.
2) Heroic Intervention -> Need to protect the mana dorks if playing ramp. It's way too easy to just sweep the legs out from under a dedicated ramp deck.
3) Crook of Condemnation or the spiffy new idol -> DO NOT LEAVE THINGIES IN THE GRAVEYARD! The Scarab God will make 4/4 dino lazotep babies and I do not want to be staring down an eternalized Kinjalli's Sunwing or Raptor Hatchling. Except now I'm thinking about finding a way to eternalize that raptor hatchling since they still have the enrage ability. Also, can you imagine what a raptor hatchling eternal would look like?
In any case, to build a competitive dinosaur deck the three big cards that are the most pushed visibly are these fellows:
From there, it's basically up to the builder how they want to go around and make the deck work. I can easily see some decks trying to jam 4x Carnage Tyrant just because it is so hard to get rid of.
Below are all the support spells I can think of off the top of my head that are non-creature that could fit in the deck.
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3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Instead of Crook of Condemnation you can run Scavenger Grounds. Also I think that Shock might be better in this deck than Lightning Strike. The G/R version doesn't really have a 1-drop other than Commune with Dinosaurs, and it always wants to have a ramp spell on turn 2. That means if you are against an aggressive deck you'll likely have to wait until turn 3 to play a lightning strike. You could also run Magma Spray, but I think Shock is more main deckable.
Instead of Crook of Condemnation you can run Scavenger Grounds. Also I think that Shock might be better in this deck than Lightning Strike. The G/R version doesn't really have a 1-drop other than Commune with Dinosaurs, and it always wants to have a ramp spell on turn 2. That means if you are against an aggressive deck you'll likely have to wait until turn 3 to play a lightning strike. You could also run Magma Spray, but I think Shock is more main deckable.
I'll try to keep updating the list of possible sideboard / main deck support cards in this thread so people have an easy reference. I still got to go through all the possible cards in the upcoming Ixalan Set that I've seen as well. If anyone comes up with something that I missed I'll add it in.
Also, I'm ticked that Wizards cycled Soul of the Harvest. That card actually does work now and they replaced it with Garruk's Horde, because we can't have our welcome deck rare be actually any good. At least Sphinx of Magosi survived. I've won an FNM with that as my finisher just because people playing standard had absolutely no idea what to make of it until it turned into a 10/10 and rolled them over. It was a one of in a blue tempo / ice over shell, but it did wonders.
By the way, Heaven // Earth is looking like a very strong card to have in the main right now because of all the pirates with flying. I'm definitely keeping some around. Even the Earth side is useful since it can act as an enabler for enrage.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
New List I'm building that is more aggressive. Decided to ape off of my pummeler build and go more of a gods build with dinosaurs in it. Seems solid on glance, just haven't fitted in all the lands yet.
What I like about this starting framework is that it is very easy to sideboard into a mid-range RG build from the aggressive build. It's just a matter of getting more Ripjaw into the mix, probably swapping in a heavy duty removal package, and probably a good walker or two. I'd probably go into Chandra, Torch of Defiance in this one if going mid range as the alternative option of Nissa, Vital Force hinges a bit on graveyard stuff and using lands to smash face.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To be frank, I liked my first deck list I did a bit better in practice because I had Narnam Renegade in the one drop slot and Raptor Hatchling in the two drop slot, as they serve close to the same purpose of basically chump blocking while setting up for better plays against aggro. Dinosaurs feel truly "Mid Range", which is a stark contrast to HOU and Amonkhet where the mechanics being pushed were far more aggressive. It felt a lot like Boros in RTR with the Battalion mechanic. We had Exert and lots of hasty drops enter into the fray.
Going back to basics, what is a mid-range deck? Well, it's basically a deck that tries to play progressively stronger cards at each step of the curve that are useful at all points in the game. Old mardu vehicles did this by starting with a Thraben Inspector on turn 1, then went into Scrapheap Scrounger and Heart of Kiran turn 2, followed by Unlicensed Disintegration on turn 3, and finally closing on Turn 4 with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.
What Wizards is pushing in ixalan for "Pure" dinosaur tribal in this case is not mid-range at all, but ramp. They have some cards set up for an alternate strategy, but unlike with pirates I don't think dinosaurs have all the parts yet from the block to go whatever alternate route wizards is laying down. So with that being said, I think I'm all on board with other posters saying lets ditch the crappy parts and throw in the big guns. I just think there are so many options competing at the moment for slots it's turning into a slog to build anything.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Here's another toss out for the deck. Didn't have time to do the manabase tonight since it will be the thing of nightmares to balance out, but here we go...
Think we can probably get by on 22 lands due to commune. Not 100% sure though.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I honestly think Red is the color we are splashing. If we don't use Raptor Hatchling, than the best dinosaurs that require red are turn 3+ so it's much easier to hit. That and all versions of the deck are going to run Commune with Dinosaurs. That one card is a very big deal, though, and why I'm wishing we had a slightly better options than Raptor hatchling at 2 cmc that were white or green. Raptor Hatchling is actually very damn good against aggro decks since it trades favorably with pikers and gives a 3/3 out of it. It also pairs well with savage stomp. Late game past turn 3 it gets rough, though. I'd still have taken a turn 2 death touch creature over the raptor if one was available.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
One is using Hour of Promise with Gishath. We know Hour of Promise is very powerful and Gishath looks like the best payoff for 8 mana in standard. One issue with using Gishath is that you need as many dinosaurs in your deck as possible to make his ability powerful. At first I wanted to use the wrath dino with HoP, but after thinking about it, I think Gishath is more powerful and better in more scenarios. This is how I would build Gishath ramp:
Chapin and Flores were talking up Verdant Sun's Avatar on their podcast though it doesn't look that exciting on the surface. It buys a ton of time for you to attack with Gishath, and it makes his trigger gain obscene amounts of life. I chose Fiery Cannonade over Sweltering Suns because it's easier on the mana, instant speed to kill haste creatures, and triggers but doesn't kill Ranging Raptors. If pirates are prevalent, obviously it should be moved out of the main deck. If the format has more control decks, Carnage Tyrant could be moved into the main deck.
I think the primary way that Wizards designed dinos to be played in constructed is similar to the Red/Green Monsters deck from Theros standard. You can splash white but I don't think it's worth it at this point for just Kinjalli's Sunwing. Here's how I would build R/G DinoMonsters:
I'm thinking I may try the simple approach and just pick the strongest plays at each spot on curve rather than focus on synergy like the energy builds. That and we may be going into a counterspell = my removal meta, so serpopard is going to get more use.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm thinking I may try the simple approach and just pick the strongest plays at each spot on curve rather than focus on synergy like the energy builds. That and we may be going into a counterspell = my removal meta, so serpopard is going to get more use.
When you're on the play, Longtusk Cub is the strongest play on curve.
There isn't a ton of reason to play energy builds -- but Longtusk Cub is one of them. The card is fundamentally powerful.
I'm sticking with a more tribal based strategy. There have been two dinosaur decks on the starcitygames site and the deck that leaned heavier into the Tribe seemed more explosive to me. This deck wants to run a critical mass of Dinosaurs matter and a few flex slots to fill in the gaps.
The Dinosaurs we have a VERY good. Arguably, our tribe got the most attention in the set. Wizards wasn't playing around with Dinosaurs. Otepec Huntmaster has been an overperformer. His low bar is he eats removal or your draw him late game but he dodges Walking Ballista turn 2 and his high bar gives a static Discount on all but 2 of your creatures 3 mana or above AND gives them haste! Between him and Regisaur Alpha we have 8 ways to give dinosaurs haste! There's a part of me that wants to move Glorybringer to the maindeck but I just love the idea of Metallic Mimic and Regisaur Alpha. It's probably right to just maindeck the Dragons though. I like our Nut Draws too. Drover into Ripjaw, Huntmaster into Two Three Drops or into a Metallic Mimic and a three drop. We tilt a lot to removal but
The sideboard is mostly focused on control matchups but also to switch up the removal. You don't know what you need until you see the meta but we tilt to removal so the sideboard is to help against that.
I've played a few games with Ripjaw and like it already. It draws a surprisingly large number of cards, goes over all the removal in the format including Cut // Ribbons and more importantly, Glorybringer, and even when it does die to damage it replaces itself. Regisaur Alpha is not quite as good, unfortunately. It's a lot of power on the board at once, but because it doesn't have haste itself it feels a little slow. There isn't much to say about Carnage Tyrant other than it plays as good as it looks, which is very good. I'm not super sold on Commune with Dinosaurs, as it did help with mana fixing, but at the same time it can feel like it backfires when your top 5 included some much needed ixalan natives. Oh, and Rhonas the indomitable... yeah just play him. Seriously, it's surprisingly easy to have him online in this deck when it matters. Also, Deathgorge Scavenger does play a little better than it looks. Honestly, I have no idea what I want to play in the 3 drop spot right now anyway in this deck.
Anyone have any thoughts on Atzocan Archer? I was thinking about this guy and he does have some use with triggering Ranging Raptors and taking out some annoying early pikers in aggro.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I want to play Glorybringer, but white has some of the best one drops. Legion's Landing worked way better than I was honestly expecting. As in, it was flipping a lot and the back side really helps mid and late game to provide free chump blockers. I usually had it flipping on Turn 4 to 5 in dinosaurs, though I'm sure someone running something more dedicated to token swarms could flip it as soon as turn 3. I wasn't really expecting to be able to flip the card so easily in a non-token deck, but dinosaurs runs so many creatures that are basically pure value they tend to stick around longer than more aggressive lists.
FYI, only reason I haven't posted a deck list is that I'm basically just throwing a deck together with cards for testing with some friends. Tempo pirates is a nightmare, by the way, and I felt like the only way I was winning in some cases was by landing Carnage Tyrant. Heaven // Earth did wonders out of the sideboard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Yes, they're big. They're also expensive. They're unwieldy (so far) in 3 or more colors. They don't really seem to play well with other creatures, including other dinosaurs (which seems to be very much on theme for dinosaurs).
From what we've seen of Ixalan so far, I think we're intended to play them alongside humans. If we do, we're not REALLY creating a tribal dinosaurs deck then, are we?
But I think Enrage is the thing that will set dinosaurs apart from other tribes.
What I'm hoping we see among the as-yet unspoiled cards is something to really allow us to exploit this ability to it's fullest.
Something that we could do at instant speed, on our opponent's end step for example, that with the right creatures in play allows us to search up a land, draw a card, give all dinos +1/+1, would be ideal.
An example would be a card like Seismic Shudder. Dual Shot might be the closest thing we have so far. But, basically, I'm looking for a card that says, "Enrage all dinosaurs you control." Knowing full well that that doesn't actually mean anything... yet.
The whole set is spoiled now and there's no pyroclasm or Pyrohemia so far as I am aware maybe in the next set.
I also think going full Naya is too aggressive. We definitely want to be Two Colors with a splash to keep the mana base easy and I'm starting to side with GW splash red.
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Kinjalli's Sunwing
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Cast Out
4 Aether Hub
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Scattered Groves
3 Rootbound Crag
2 Sheltered Thicket
4 Plains
3 Forest
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Also, I just realized how absolutely mean dinosaur creature hatebears is. I think I'm going to build it.
Unsummon + Rampaging Ferocidon + Kinjalli's Sunwing... Let's just keep bouncing stuff all day and make their lives miserable! And in case they have ETBs... well now we got Tocatli Honor Guard. Oh, and then we just throw in Dovin Baan to shut down the god cards and while we are at it, let's just Exile all the things with Angel of sanctions, Fairgrounds Warden (or just sub in Abrade or Lightning Strike if playing against mono red), and cast out. Not entirely sure how effective the end deck would be, but I want to try it.
Kinjalli's Caller works in the deck as well as an early blocker and a way to discount the dinosaurs we are running. The thought of someone wasting a bolt on that chumper is already hilarious. In all seriousness, though, I'm really sketchy on dinosaurs. I think they will get better assuming dominaria doesn't hate them into oblivion when Amonkhet / Kaladesh blocks rotate.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I was looking at that card, and then asked myself "What if they are playing Kari Zev, Skyship Raider and Captain Lannery Storm?"
On the upside, those are both legendary so they can only have one out at a time, and we'd still nuke everything else to the ground. The main problem ramunap red gives anyone is the Hazoret, the Fervent. Indestructible is the name of the game right now and unless a deck has an answer to that than it is going to be at a disadvantage against mono red.
Samut, the Tested is turning out to feel like she was built for enrage decks, just I'm not sure if the enrage triggers are the right ones? The two best triggers with her right now are Raptor Hatchling making a 3/3 and Ripjaw Raptor letting you draw a card. Also, her +1 ability to give double strike to a 4/5 or 3/3 is pretty good. Maybe I was worrying too much about giving things trample when double strike may be good enough? Double strike on Carnage Tyrant is basically game over.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I actually want to have Settle the Wreckage, but the mana just isn't there.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
He's good, but it's hard to find the slots to fit him in the deck right now. The main advantage that Vizier of the Menagerie brings is the ability to look at the top card of the library and cast it if it's a creature. A lot of people also miss the fact that you can do this multiple times in a row. It's not like we suddenly can't look again after casting the last card. If you combo him with Nissa, Steward of Elements than it gets even better. A lot of people under value her because she is not strait up good on her own, but with the right cards she is pretty insane. Just wish we got that one mana elvish mystic.
... Actually, that Vizier is insane in this deck. Remember how we got 8 mana discount guys? Combo that with Rishkar, Peema Renegade and then have Vizier. Assuming they all stick, that could win the game via board state.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The champion is too slow and dies to Lightning Strike + Abrade. With Vizier of the Menagerie they have to at least run Cut // Ribbons, which is something I've got in the sideboard right now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I agree with you. However, at this stage playing around and understanding the synergy of the cards is important. The deck needs answers to the existing champions that don't lose anything to rotation. Temur Energy, GR Pummeller, Ramunap Red, UR / Grixis Control, etc, are all going to be problematic out the gate for any new strategy. My own Deserts Deck beats some of the field via just having so many removal spells and running the big guns Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Gideon of the Trials, but it still isn't on the same level as the T1 strategies. (I'll post my list for that deck if anyone is interested, I got it from SbMTG so technically it is "his" deck, but once I figure out some ways to break it in and make it homey it will be my deck. Plus it uses sleeves I bought. )
Cards that must absolutely be in the deck for handling the meta:
1) Cast Out -> Weapon against Control decks and big things we don't like.
2) Heroic Intervention -> Need to protect the mana dorks if playing ramp. It's way too easy to just sweep the legs out from under a dedicated ramp deck.
3) Crook of Condemnation or the spiffy new idol -> DO NOT LEAVE THINGIES IN THE GRAVEYARD! The Scarab God will make 4/4 dino lazotep babies and I do not want to be staring down an eternalized Kinjalli's Sunwing or Raptor Hatchling. Except now I'm thinking about finding a way to eternalize that raptor hatchling since they still have the enrage ability. Also, can you imagine what a raptor hatchling eternal would look like?
In any case, to build a competitive dinosaur deck the three big cards that are the most pushed visibly are these fellows:
From there, it's basically up to the builder how they want to go around and make the deck work. I can easily see some decks trying to jam 4x Carnage Tyrant just because it is so hard to get rid of.
Below are all the support spells I can think of off the top of my head that are non-creature that could fit in the deck.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Drover of the Mighty
Ripjaw Raptor
Regisaur Alpha
Glorybringer
Carnage Tyrant
Savage Stomp
Commune with Dinosaurs
Abrade
Lightning Strike
I think some of you are trying to go too in on the dinosaur stuff.
I'll try to keep updating the list of possible sideboard / main deck support cards in this thread so people have an easy reference. I still got to go through all the possible cards in the upcoming Ixalan Set that I've seen as well. If anyone comes up with something that I missed I'll add it in.
Also, I'm ticked that Wizards cycled Soul of the Harvest. That card actually does work now and they replaced it with Garruk's Horde, because we can't have our welcome deck rare be actually any good. At least Sphinx of Magosi survived. I've won an FNM with that as my finisher just because people playing standard had absolutely no idea what to make of it until it turned into a 10/10 and rolled them over. It was a one of in a blue tempo / ice over shell, but it did wonders.
By the way, Heaven // Earth is looking like a very strong card to have in the main right now because of all the pirates with flying. I'm definitely keeping some around. Even the Earth side is useful since it can act as an enabler for enrage.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Hashep Oasis
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Invigorated Rampage
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Raptor Hatchling
4 Earthshaker Khenra
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Ripjaw Raptor
What I like about this starting framework is that it is very easy to sideboard into a mid-range RG build from the aggressive build. It's just a matter of getting more Ripjaw into the mix, probably swapping in a heavy duty removal package, and probably a good walker or two. I'd probably go into Chandra, Torch of Defiance in this one if going mid range as the alternative option of Nissa, Vital Force hinges a bit on graveyard stuff and using lands to smash face.
Edit: Had the wrong khenra...
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Going back to basics, what is a mid-range deck? Well, it's basically a deck that tries to play progressively stronger cards at each step of the curve that are useful at all points in the game. Old mardu vehicles did this by starting with a Thraben Inspector on turn 1, then went into Scrapheap Scrounger and Heart of Kiran turn 2, followed by Unlicensed Disintegration on turn 3, and finally closing on Turn 4 with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.
What Wizards is pushing in ixalan for "Pure" dinosaur tribal in this case is not mid-range at all, but ramp. They have some cards set up for an alternate strategy, but unlike with pirates I don't think dinosaurs have all the parts yet from the block to go whatever alternate route wizards is laying down. So with that being said, I think I'm all on board with other posters saying lets ditch the crappy parts and throw in the big guns. I just think there are so many options competing at the moment for slots it's turning into a slog to build anything.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
3 Cast Out
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
3 Gideon of the Trials
2 Samut, the Tested
4 Savage Stomp
2 Carnage Tyrant
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Kinjalli's Caller
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Raptor Hatchling
4 Ripjaw Raptor
Think we can probably get by on 22 lands due to commune. Not 100% sure though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Otepec Huntmaster
4x Rampaging Ferocidon
3x Khenra Charioteer
4x Ripjaw Raptor
4x Regisaur Alpha
4x Attune with Aether
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Savage Stomp
Lands: (21)
4x Sheltered Thicket
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Aether Hub
6x Forest
3x Mountain
4x Magma Spray
2x Vance's Blasting Cannons
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Abrade
4x Bristling Hydra
Big plays with Otepec include:
Play Ferocidon (w/ haste) and Savage Stomp on turn three
Give both halves of Regisaur Alpha haste on turn 4.
This list has a lot of problems in the format -- mainly it struggles with The Scarab God.
One is using Hour of Promise with Gishath. We know Hour of Promise is very powerful and Gishath looks like the best payoff for 8 mana in standard. One issue with using Gishath is that you need as many dinosaurs in your deck as possible to make his ability powerful. At first I wanted to use the wrath dino with HoP, but after thinking about it, I think Gishath is more powerful and better in more scenarios. This is how I would build Gishath ramp:
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
4 Hour of Promise
4 Verdant Sun's Avatar
3 Gishath, Sun's Avatar
4 Magma Spray
3 Fiery Cannonade
1 Abrade
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Hashep Oasis
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Scattered Groves
1 Plains
1 Field of Ruin
1 Scavenger Grounds
2 Mountain
3 Forest
3 Ramunap Ruins
Chapin and Flores were talking up Verdant Sun's Avatar on their podcast though it doesn't look that exciting on the surface. It buys a ton of time for you to attack with Gishath, and it makes his trigger gain obscene amounts of life. I chose Fiery Cannonade over Sweltering Suns because it's easier on the mana, instant speed to kill haste creatures, and triggers but doesn't kill Ranging Raptors. If pirates are prevalent, obviously it should be moved out of the main deck. If the format has more control decks, Carnage Tyrant could be moved into the main deck.
I think the primary way that Wizards designed dinos to be played in constructed is similar to the Red/Green Monsters deck from Theros standard. You can splash white but I don't think it's worth it at this point for just Kinjalli's Sunwing. Here's how I would build R/G DinoMonsters:
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Glorybringer
2 Rile
2 Savage Stomp
4 Abrade
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Hashep Oasis
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Scavenger Grounds
4 Forest
3 Mountain
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
When you're on the play, Longtusk Cub is the strongest play on curve.
There isn't a ton of reason to play energy builds -- but Longtusk Cub is one of them. The card is fundamentally powerful.
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Drover of the Mighty
2 Metallic Mimic
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
3 Carnage Tyrant
3 Commune with Dinosaurs
3 Lightning Strike
2 Samut, the Tested
Lands (24)
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Unclaimed Territory
6 Forest
6 Mountain
3 Shapers' Sanctuary
4 Blossoming Defense
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Abrade
2 Glorybringer
3 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Drover of the Mighty
2 Metallic Mimic
Dinosaurs (18)
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
3 Carnage Tyrant
3 Lightning Strike
2 Samut, the Tested
Curve
3 One Drops
13 Two Drops
7 Three Drops
6 Four Drops
4 Five Drops
3 Six Drops
The sideboard is mostly focused on control matchups but also to switch up the removal. You don't know what you need until you see the meta but we tilt to removal so the sideboard is to help against that.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Anyone have any thoughts on Atzocan Archer? I was thinking about this guy and he does have some use with triggering Ranging Raptors and taking out some annoying early pikers in aggro.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
FYI, only reason I haven't posted a deck list is that I'm basically just throwing a deck together with cards for testing with some friends. Tempo pirates is a nightmare, by the way, and I felt like the only way I was winning in some cases was by landing Carnage Tyrant. Heaven // Earth did wonders out of the sideboard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!