MTG Salvation

Am I alone in this sentiment? I feel like the insane power level of creatures and planeswalkers in standard right now makes the game ultimately not fun. Permanents under 4 cmc will literally win you the game or provide so much value that whoever is behind in the first 3 turns is probably losing. I'm not really sure how to fix it except to say stop the crazy powerful early creatures and stop printing planeswalkers, period. I liked them when I first started using them as a niche thing. But they have become the focus of the game so much so that they can completely change the flow of the game. Adding passive abilities to the already strong array of card advantage/bonus information/removal/creature producing abilities planeswalkers have was detrimental to the game IMO. The worst of which is Teferi, Time Raveler. I like to think of myself is a pretty even keeled person, but seeing this card on turn 3 and again on turn 4 and again on turn 9 is rage inducing. I feel like the integrity of the game has been compromised for the sake of "creative planeswalker abilities." Also where there only u/g players at the R&D meeting when Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath was conceived?

we don't need worse threats, we need better answers.

I mean, legacy is pretty fine as a format.... diverse, interactive, strategic... issue being a competitive deck costs more than a new car.
if power level was the issue, legacy would suck pretty hard.

So now with Fires and Agent gone, it seems that blue green ramp Uro decks are going wild. I still believe 3feri isnt a problem and Lukka and Winota aren't nearly as bad w/o Agent as a target.

personally i completely agree. MTG just doesnt resemble an actual game anymore, just 3 turns in you win or lose. if you have the right cards, you win. if not, you lose.

best of 1 in arena is the most horrifying example of this. its just hard to believe this is how they intended the product to be. most people dont play best of 3. they have this idiotic idea that they can print whatever power cards they like, so long as they also print ANSWERS. this is terrible game design. it leads to these totally black and white play experiences. you have a sweeper, you can survive another turn, if they have anax, you cant, if you have elpeth deth, you can take out anax and then sweep, but you probably dead by then. if you ramp into casualities of war and their board is varied, you win, and it doesnt feel like a fair win. nobody has fun

its just an awful game now and i think it contributes to peoples mental health issues (definitely the case for me)

Honestly, I was never one to really complain about "power level". I think its fun and interesting when stuff gets a lil crazy and we get to try and wild new things.

My only gripe with standard isn't the power level as much as the complete lack of variety. At least on MTGO and Arena there's only 2 diff decks you'll see. Witch's Cauldron/Cauldron Familiar or U/G Uro decks. NOTHING ELSE.

I just wish people were willing to try something new rather than endlessly playing the same darn stuff everyone else is. I mean, im all for playing what wins. I totally understand that. But don't even they get tired of Uro Vs Uro Vs Uro?

Its poor design, plain and simple. Threats are over pushed, answers are too nerfed. The game is better when counter magic and spot removal are actually good. 4 mana wraths are good for the game. Planeswalkers are, and always have been, bad for the game, and if they aren't niche role players they hurt formats.

I'm pretty new to MtG, just started playing on Arena recently, so I don't have much to compare it to... but I do find some of this offputting. I don't mind planeswalkers so much because at least they tend to make the games a bit more interesting and tactical, though finally managing to do away with someone's mythic rare Teferi and them popping out another the very next turn the very day after M21 dropped felt a bit annoying for a newbie who has almost no planeswalkers unlocked yet. I find the Cat Oven far more obnoxious, and also boring. What's the point in even playing if you just load up someone else's deck and go through the exact same motions over and over? Admittedly, I started building my own decks before I even knew the rules and maybe most people don't think like that, but it just doesn't seem fun to me.

Coincidentally I read this article the other day which talks about the design of Uro and Kroxa. Apparently they used to have more powerful "enters the battlefield" effects but they found people just used them as sorceries so weakened them. Seems like they didn't go far enough with Uro; people mostly seem just to spam it for ramp, often several copies.

Winota I also hate not just because she seems too powerful but because her ability is entirely passive. You can be facing down a couple of relatively weak creatures and then, bam!, suddenly there are twice the threats and all attacking, and you have no warning. That doesn't seem like great design. It wouldn't be so bad if she had to attack too (for example) as at least you'd get a turn of warning, and your opponent would have to risk her dying to attack with her.

its not just an issue of "overpowered threats, underpowered answers" im afraid. even if the answers/removal themselves were much better (and in many cases they are actually very powerful), the problem lies in threats putting such a fast clock on the game or having other value packed into it that you literally have no time to draw into answers, and most importantly the RIGHT answers

i mean its always about finding the time to deal with a threat. but the threats nowadays just completely lock the game down.
against questing beast, embercleave, you just have no time to draw answers or set things up. i mean 99% of the time embercleave is a 0 turn, 0 phase clock. if you dont have an answer right then, your dead.
against anax, your sweepers just cause a mass respawn of 1/1s which kill you if you have less than 10 life

and against control, they exile your best creature with elspeth saga, and they have an ugin in the GY, well at least you have 1-2 turns to try and close things out but if not your toast.
or you have a diverse range of threats so they cant sweep the board? well they just clear it anyway because they just happen to have casualites of war.

the powering up of everything just leads to very linear gameplay. you have the thing you win, you dont you lose.
yeah im done with MTG

Simple solution?

Fire Mark Rosewater.

Quote from potato_of_pendelhaven »

i mean its always about finding the time to deal with a threat. but the threats nowadays just completely lock the game down.
against questing beast, embercleave, you just have no time to draw answers or set things up. i mean 99% of the time embercleave is a 0 turn, 0 phase clock. if you dont have an answer right then, your dead.
against anax, your sweepers just cause a mass respawn of 1/1s which kill you if you have less than 10 life

Yeah cards are being more often designed to have an immediate impact of some sort or another. Lots of agressively costed haste and flash being printed. By the time you have answered something you've eaten some damage or your opponent has drawn some cards or something. Modern card design is well acquainted with what makes magic cards good, and more good cards are seeing print. But I do think that answers could be more powerful. Instant speed answers will run you 3 mana or more. Imagine Swords to Plowshares in standard and how much more breathing room you'd have against the Questing Beasts and Embercleaves. Of course then you're making the planeswalker control decks and the wilderness reclamation combo decks stronger. It's just a very high-powered meta for a standard format.

It's interesting that Growth Spiral seems to be considered so great but the mana crystals are not. I guess a big difference is that you can play Growth Spiral on turn 2. If you don't have a spare land in hand, though, it's pretty useless.

Hello!

I've just started playing M:tG again, on Arena. I played paper for a couple years, started when Ice Age came out. Life happened, got rid of my collection, etc. A couple weeks ago, I saw an ad for Arena saying could play for free online, so tried it out.

Found all the 'newb' promo codes, collected some decks, opened some boosters, and spent $100 on gems to play some drafts.

I absolutely love Arena so far.

At first, it was very, very difficult playing constructed. Those Planeswalkers... oof...

Of course, I had no idea how difficult rare wildcards were to come by, and spent the initial ones I received rather stupidly...

After a couple weeks now, though... I am really beginning to enjoy it again.

Last couple days, been watching several streamers playing/explaining T1 decks, etc.

I was SOOOO frustrated by Uro and Teferi decks, up until a couple days ago.

I now have a Boros Cycling budget deck though, that I've been playing for a couple days now...

Last few days, has been quite enjoyable beating many decks completely fully of rares and Mythics, with a deck that only has 5 rares and a dozen uncommons

A bit boring, after playing long enough to get the 15 wins for the day, but good enough for me for now, til I can build up my collection to play with some of the many other max rare/Mythic decks

Just in case wondered what I was using...

1 Lurrus (running as companion)
4 Red/white shock lands

Fox, Stinger, and Rescuer are the threats.

Healer for versus the mono deck damage stability/healing.

Zenith Flare for the finish, generally.

Normally goes somethin like this: Drop a couple threats, and cycle half a dozen times. Hold a couple threats for board wipe spells.

Finish with a Zenith Flare when they tap out, or cast a double, one at end of their turn, untap, then recast beginning of mine, etc.

Trample land enchantment option for pushing Fox thru token swarms.

1 mana cycle cost sorceries to trigger the cyclers, using Lurrus as companion, for after board wipe, etc.

Much much higher win rate than I was getting with my other 'budget' decks.

Honestly, Cat Oven is the one I find most obnoxious, especially on Arena where you have to click through all the triggers.

But I also just find rush strategies and really fast ramp ones less interesting - the game is often over before it's even possible to cast any of the cool spells, and for aggro especially it's mostly just about dealing damage quickly. I might also be a bit bitter about getting done over by a turn three Nissa, Who Shakes the World then her hitting her totem with an Evolution Sage on the board.

(I was playing a slow deck with few creatures and, frankly, poor planeswalker removal - but still, there was not a lot of time to respond to that)

I don't think Standard in Magic is as bad as OTK decks in Yu-Gi-Oh! but I will say that the overall power level of cards is subpar at best because they don't know how to design good playable cards without running the risk of enforcing emergency bans. What's the point of playtesting cards designed for Standard If Hasbro doesn't give Wizards of the Coast enough time to do it? It's always money machine go brrrr.