how do you expect to do that? either increase the number of cards in a booster, or decrease the number of cards in a set... either is a horrible idea.?
Wrong again.
They already did the reverse once with out making sets bigger or decreasing the number of cards in booster packs, it was called mythic rares.
You can easily drop the number of bosters it takes without changing the number of cards in the set by, increasing the rate at which mythics are found, or printing a smaller porportion of the set as mythics.
Or you can do the second idea of increasing set size while keeping the booster count the same by simply holding the number of mythics the same and increasing the number of cards at other rarities.
You also totally ingored thebpart about rarity levels, and reprint patterns
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
There isnt really a lot to complain about right now. A lot of cards right now do not cost a lot. The most expensive cards in standard right now are liliana and snapcaster mage. Both of which i can see taking a nose dive once they circulate a bit more.
They already did the reverse once with out making sets bigger or decreasing the number of cards in booster packs, it was called mythic rares.
You can easily drop the number of bosters it takes without changing the number of cards in the set by, increasing the rate at which mythics are found, or printing a smaller porportion of the set as mythics.
Or you can do the second idea of increasing set size while keeping the booster count the same by simply holding the number of mythics the same and increasing the number of cards at other rarities.
You also totally ingored thebpart about rarity levels, and reprint patterns
yes, they made certain cards more rare, making less chance of them being in a booster... this doesn't fix the problem of making it easier to obtain a set of certain cards. you're focusing on mythics, when the second most expensive card in standard is a rare.
your logic is flawed in the sense that decreasing the rarity of cards will make it LESS likely for you to get a play-set of a certain non-mythic card, not more. The math doesn't support what you are saying. decreasing the number of mythics only increases the chances of you getting a play set of certain mythics, but decreases the chance of you getting certain rares... also, because of the "power structure" to cards.
There are several problems in your theory of less mythics = more play sets.
1. there are several uncommon in both scars block and zen block (and a lot more) that are worth more than the majority of rares printed. IE inquisition of koz, or more recently, dismember, and before that, go for the throat.
2. as mentioned earlier, the second most expensive card for the next coming weeks in innistrad is a rare (snapcaster mage)
3. you assume that just because they aren't going to print a card as a mythic that it will have the same power level, now that they are dropping it to a rare.
So again i ask you, how does wizards increase chances of you getting a play set of a card (not only mythics) without A. increasing the number of cards per a booster, or B. decreasing the number of cards in a set. and C. without tampering with the statistics of getting certain cards of the same rarity level. (EG, giving snapcaster mage a 2/60 chance of getting printed in a booster instead of the equal 1/60)
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
Wasn't it just a few years ago that the most valuable card might be 10 bucks?
Or was I that out of touch with the value of cards back then? I rarely buy singles because I enjoy opening boosters too much. (I know it's more expensive) It wasn't till I started selling all my extra cards on Ebay that I noticed how expensive some cards can be.
There isnt really a lot to complain about right now. A lot of cards right now do not cost a lot. The most expensive cards in standard right now are liliana and snapcaster mage. Both of which i can see taking a nose dive once they circulate a bit more.
A lot of the good cards cost about $10 a piece though. Tempered Steel seems like a cheap deck, sure, until you look at how much Nexuses, Tempered Steels, Mox Opals, and possibly one of the Heroes will cost you.
It's not much to complain about, but there is a good amount of played cards that cost $40 for a playset still.
Wasn't it just a few years ago that the most valuable card might be 10 bucks?
Back since the beginning this game has cost a lot of money. Black Lotus has costed $1000 for more than a few years now. Bad example, I'm aware of that. But for Constructed formats? Prices have risen, but never has everything been below $10.
About Frox: for nearly 10 years, Frox has been helping women look good and feel great in easy-fit, mix-and-match, and work-to-weekend with just a few pieces by helping them make the right choices when it comes to clothing and accessories.
yes, they made certain cards more rare, making less chance of them being in a booster... this doesn't fix the problem of making it easier to obtain a set of certain cards. you're focusing on mythics, when the second most expensive card in standard is a rare.)
Ya, rares aren't the cards with the high pricetags, there is no problem with the rares to fix.
your logic is flawed in the sense that decreasing the rarity of cards will make it LESS likely for you to get a play-set of a certain non-mythic card, not more. The math doesn't support what you are saying. decreasing the number of mythics only increases the chances of you getting a play set of certain mythics, but decreases the chance of you getting certain rares... also, because of the "power structure" to cards. .)
Getting a playset of rares is already easier than it's everbeen, and again the rares aren't the cards making standard expensive.
There are several problems in your theory of less mythics = more play sets.
1. there are several uncommon in both scars block and zen block (and a lot more) that are worth more than the majority of rares printed. IE inquisition of koz, or more recently, dismember, and before that, go for the throat.
2. as mentioned earlier, the second most expensive card for the next coming weeks in innistrad is a rare (snapcaster mage)
3. you assume that just because they aren't going to print a card as a mythic that it will have the same power level, now that they are dropping it to a rare.
1. I don't see anyone complaining about, the prices of uncommons, infact high money uncommons tend to lead to lower set vaules while maintating
2. Pre-realease hype means nothing.
3. They should, printing powerful cards at mythic is bad.
So again i ask you, how does wizards increase chances of you getting a play set of a card (not only mythics) without A. increasing the number of cards per a booster, or B. decreasing the number of cards in a set. and C. without tampering with the statistics of getting certain cards of the same rarity level. (EG, giving snapcaster mage a 2/60 chance of getting printed in a booster instead of the equal 1/60)
I ask why does wizards need to make all cards cheaper? if you want to bring the price of standard down then all you have to do is decrease the price of the expesive card(mythics).
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
mythics aren't expensive. only the really good mythics. yes getting a play set of feast and famine may be hard, but how do you expect to fix that? you keep saying there is a problem and offer no real solution.
I really don't understand how it's a problem for really powerful cards to be less common than not powerful cards.
What is "expensive" to you if not the price of rares? all the zen fetch lands still cost in the neighborhood of $9 even though they are about to rotate. inkmoth as well. dismember is a $3 uncommon. Feast is a $20 card because it's ridiculously good, and necessary for a number of highly competitive decks, and because of it's extra rarity (mythic-> which is completely justified for this card) it is expensive, because it's difficult to get a play set of.
If you think it is a "scheme" by Wizards to increase sales, you are probably right. but all this nonsense about turning players away because it's hard to get play sets is gibberish. if wizards is turning people away with mythics, than they are replacing those lost players at a much higher rate, because their stock, and number of sales has gradually increased over the past years, and is actually higher than it ever was pre-mythics. This is all just correlation, and i don't actually think inclusion of mythics increased sales, but it does weaken this theory that mythics turn away customers.
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
mythics aren't expensive.only the really good mythics.
No, even the only kind of good mythics are still more expensive that most rares. Most mythics may not be expensive cards, but most expesive card are mythics.
yes getting a play set of feast and famine may be hard, but how do you expect to fix that? you keep saying there is a problem and offer no real solution.
Did you read? Make mythics more common, decrease the rarity difference between mythics and rares, change how cards are reprinted"
What is "expensive" to you if not the price of rares? all the zen fetch lands still cost in the neighborhood of $9 even though they are about to rotate. inkmoth as well. dismember is a $3 uncommon. Feast is a $20 card because it's ridiculously good, and necessary for a number of highly competitive decks, and because of it's extra rarity (mythic-> which is completely justified for this card) it is expensive, because it's difficult to get a play set of..
I haven't run the numbers but as fetches and dismember are ussually used as 4 ofs in every format where the are legal while feast is ussually a one of, they probably have much more demand.
If you think it is a "scheme" by Wizards to increase sales, you are probably right. but all this nonsense about turning players away because it's hard to get play sets is gibberish. if wizards is turning people away with mythics, than they are replacing those lost players at a much higher rate, because their stock, and number of sales has gradually increased over the past years, and is actually higher than it ever was pre-mythics. This is all just correlation, and i don't actually think inclusion of mythics increased sales, but it does weaken this theory that mythics turn away customers.
Please show me where I said overall mythics are turning away customers. It's a fact the many poeple have quit and reduced their buying because of mythics, if those number are smaller than the current growth rate of magic, or made up for by targeting a younger audience that's not a surprise. Also as it now take twice as many boosters to get a playset of standard, that means hypothetically 49% of competitive players could have quite and the would still have seen an increase in sale amoung competitive players.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
How do people still not understand that the price of a single card in the secondhand market has nothing to do with WotC. If I put a card up on ebay starting at $1.00 with no reserve and it goes for $100, that price is set by the people bidding on it. If a card is worth $100 to enough people, that's how much it's going to cost. It doesn't matter if WotC prints 100 booster boxes of a set or 20 million boxes, the price of a booster and the odds of getting a certain card in that booster are the same. The more people are willing to pay for it in the secondhand market, the more it costs. Whining about it on a forum isn't going to make Magic any cheaper. And for the people complaining about Standard prices, you're lucky you don't play Modern/Legacy/Vintage where a competitive deck costs anywhere from $1k to $20k.
No, even the only kind of good mythics are still more expensive that most rares. Most mythics may not be expensive cards, but most expesive card are mythics.
This is a directly affected by the power level of mythics over the power level of rares. Mythic rating is given to powerful cards. People want powerful cards. It really is THAT EASY.
Did you read? Make mythics more common, decrease the rarity difference between mythics and rares, change how cards are reprinted"
So basically you want mythics to appear more frequently? Why should they do this? they really don't have a reason at all to do this. Why don't large corporations give people raises when the standards are being met or exceeded? Because there is no reason.
how do you think these online stores get singles to sell? By opening boosters. How do they get the boosters? By buying from Wizards. If they decrease the rarity of mythics, will store owners open more or less boosters to find the mythics to sell? Less; and they will still sell it for the same price, so WotC loses.
Look at the price diffrence between Jace and stoneforge, Between BSA and the fetches, Between lotus cobra and the manlands.
Jace is more powerful than stoneforge. BSA is cheaper than the fetches, so nothing to say here. Lotus cobra is better than most manlands, and was extremely powerful in a flagship deck.
Please show me where I said overall mythics are turning away customers. It's a fact the many poeple have quit and reduced their buying because of mythics, if those number are smaller than the current growth rate of magic, or made up for by targeting a younger audience that's not a surprise. Also as it now take twice as many boosters to get a playset of standard, that means hypothetically 49% of competitive players could have quite and the would still have seen an increase in sale amoung competitive players.
where do you get this statistic that it takes twice the boosters to get a playset of standard? yeah, if you have no friends or a community to trade with... but then why are you playing anyways? you might as well be online... and if it matters that much to you, then buy singles.
Do i buy a lot of boosters hoping for mythics? yes. do i get a bunch old rares and mythics i don't need? yes. do i end up trading for the cards i need, using the card pool from opening boosters? yes.
I can only use myself and the people i know as an example, and i know that isn't a very large sample group, but we don't buy any more boosters now than we did 5 years ago. In fact, i buy less (but i attend more drafts).
Dropping the rarity will not help wizards in any way shape or form. so i'll say it again "you keep saying there is a problem and offer no REAL solution."
BASICALLY--> the main point i want to get across, is that wizards makes money from boosters being opened. This isn't so much the players opening the boosters that they make money --> that is where the shops make money. Wizards makes money from shop owners opening packs in order to sell the singles. decreasing the rarity of "money cards" will decrease the number of boosters to be opened by shop keepers, therefore wizards loses money, to fix this they charge the distributes (and shops) more for boosters, and in the end boosters cost more, which will cause them to lose more buyers. So the mythics in turn will still cost the same, because they will sitll be selling it at whatever we will buy it at, because we aren't willing to take the risk of opening 50 boosters to find a money card, where the shops are.
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
How do people still not understand that the price of a single card in the secondhand market has nothing to do with WotC. If I put a card up on ebay starting at $1.00 with no reserve and it goes for $100, that price is set by the people bidding on it. If a card is worth $100 to enough people, that's how much it's going to cost. It doesn't matter if WotC prints 100 booster boxes of a set or 20 million boxes, the price of a booster and the odds of getting a certain card in that booster are the same. The more people are willing to pay for it in the secondhand market, the more it costs. Whining about it on a forum isn't going to make Magic any cheaper. And for the people complaining about Standard prices, you're lucky you don't play Modern/Legacy/Vintage where a competitive deck costs anywhere from $1k to $20k.
I'm sorry you don't understand supply and demand.
The price is set by the secondary market after WotC determines its supply.
This is why you don't see 20 dollar commons, 15 dollar uncommons, 50 dollar rares in standard.
WotC sets a card at a certain rarity and the price for it will go up or down accordingly.
Or do you think Jace would've ever hit $100 if it was printed at the common level?
Having only just recently begun my foray into Standard MTG (and MTG in general), I am still baffled/impressed by the incredibly solid business model that WotC has on their very loyal market. On one hand, it almost hurts to try to understand that a typical competitively-minded player is going to spend around $1000 per year while staying current in this game (maybe closer to $500 annually if you want to trade and swap out only a few cards at once and really just stick with one archetype) and still feel "okay" about it.
The whole aspect of supply/demand is what keeps this interesting for me. I have a recent huge interest in Draft and I almost feel like for a "new" player it might make sense for me to Draft for a certain amount of time (until I happen to have enough cards, or enough to trade for a deck) and then start exploring Standard.
Part of me wants to complain to make the game more "accessible", but if it was too accessible then everyone would just play the same decks and that wouldn't be as interesting.
I guess there isn't much to complain about because most of the cards almost act as an investment and hold at least some remote amount of value. Where's my thread to whine about initial investment and learning curve as opposed to just Standard prices?
Prices will always shift around, rarer cards will always have a bit more price than others. I for one have been lucky with my Dismembers, but have yet to pull a single Mental Misstep out of any NPH booster I have gotten.
As for the new set, and people saying how they are disappointed, that when you open a booster you should get a return on your investment(i.e. money card) you are buying a pack of 15 cards, so you are getting your $3 worth with a chance at more.
I pray the value of Snapcaster Mage doesn't tank for all those people preordering at $30 a card, woe to the forums for that.
This is a directly affected by the power level of mythics over the power level of rares. Mythic rating is given to powerful cards. People want powerful cards. It really is THAT EASY.
Mythics that see much less play than rares still have much higher prices.
So basically you want mythics to appear more frequently? Why should they do this? they really don't have a reason at all to do this. Why don't large corporations give people raises when the standards are being met or exceeded? Because there is no reason.
how do you think these online stores get singles to sell? By opening boosters. How do they get the boosters? By buying from Wizards. If they decrease the rarity of mythics, will store owners open more or less boosters to find the mythics to sell? Less; and they will still sell it for the same price, so WotC loses.
Don't change the subjest you asked how they could decrease the price of cards, not why.
Also you totally ignored that two of the solutions I offerd would not need to decrease the number of boosters opened to be implemtented.
If you want a reason why, look at A and P.
Jace is more powerful than stoneforge. BSA is cheaper than the fetches, so nothing to say here. Lotus cobra is better than most manlands, and was extremely powerful in a flagship deck.
Way to be wrong again.
Jace may have been a little more powerful, but it's not enough to make up for the fact it top out at $100 in ebay while stoneforge didn't break $20. BSA Was $40-$50 before repirints.
Despite having a shorter stay in standard, Celestial Colonnade was in over twice as many top 8 decks as cobra.
where do you get this statistic that it takes twice the boosters to get a playset of standard?.
Pre-mythic normal block 200 rares = 800, now a normal block has 35 mythics = 1120 packs Plus now new cards are printed in core set so that adds another 480 packs = 1600 packs.
yeah, if you have no friends or a community to trade with... but then why are you playing anyways? you might as well be online... and if it matters that much to you, then buy singles.
Did you read this thread? People are complaining about the high price of singles.
Do i buy a lot of boosters hoping for mythics? yes. do i get a bunch old rares and mythics i don't need? yes. do i end up trading for the cards i need, using the card pool from opening boosters? yes.
And is it still going to take more packs to make a competitive deck? Yes.
Dropping the rarity will not help wizards in any way shape or form. so i'll say it again "you keep saying there is a problem and offer no REAL solution."
Read please, two solutions didn't invole dropping the rarity.
BASICALLY--> the main point i want to get across, is that wizards makes money from boosters being opened. This isn't so much the players opening the boosters that they make money --> that is where the shops make money. Wizards makes money from shop owners opening packs in order to sell the singles. decreasing the rarity of "money cards" will decrease the number of boosters to be opened by shop keepers, therefore wizards loses money, to fix this they charge the distributes (and shops) more for boosters, and in the end boosters cost more, which will cause them to lose more buyers. So the mythics in turn will still cost the same, because they will sitll be selling it at whatever we will buy it at, because we aren't willing to take the risk of opening 50 boosters to find a money card, where the shops are.
1. The whole charge more beacuse the are selling less argument has no basis. The reverse dosen't seem to be true.
2. What is good in the short term is not good is not nessarily good in the long term.
3. This is "the complain about standard prices" thread, not the "what is the best move for wotc to make based on our very limited knowledge of thier innerworkings and sales figures thread and how to solve all their other problems" thread.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
So when do most people consider a deck to be expensive?
When is it considered budget?
I've been trying to find a balance while working on something myself. I find 80% of the cost is in 2-3 mythics. That alone though makes the deck rather expensive for me.
I intended to spend around $35-$50 for a deck but it'll probably be more like $80.
Is that peanuts for most standard players?
If you're someone who isn't necessarily the most competitive player but wants to get into the standard scene and have a chance, how do you do that without spending a lot? It seems like you need to spend quite a bit no matter what. Even a deck with a lot of commons or uncommons like Tempered Steel is still expensive from the perspective of someone entering into standard.
So when do most people consider a deck to be expensive?
When is it considered budget?
I've been trying to find a balance while working on something myself. I find 80% of the cost is in 2-3 mythics. That alone though makes the deck rather expensive for me.
I intended to spend around $35-$50 for a deck but it'll probably be more like $80.
Is that peanuts for most standard players?
If you're someone who isn't necessarily the most competitive player but wants to get into the standard scene and have a chance, how do you do that without spending a lot? It seems like you need to spend quite a bit no matter what. Even a deck with a lot of commons or uncommons like Tempered Steel is still expensive from the perspective of someone entering into standard.
When I got back in shortly before NPH, I just bought a fat pack of Scars, Besieged and NPH and intermittent boosters and bought maybe a cheap playset of something once in a while. Budget I say is when you can make what you want through pulls or by trades, and not spending an arm and a leg.
Easiest way to get into standard is just buying a good assortment of packs and build from it and then as you get boosters you will get trade stuff and good pulls.
If you're someone who isn't necessarily the most competitive player but wants to get into the standard scene and have a chance, how do you do that without spending a lot? It seems like you need to spend quite a bit no matter what. Even a deck with a lot of commons or uncommons like Tempered Steel is still expensive from the perspective of someone entering into standard.
I would reccommend buying common uncommon playsets. You can get them on ebay for around $15-$25 each. It's great for starting out since you get far more cards than you would get than spending the same money on boosters, you have 4 copies of most of the cards you need for a deck, not only does your purches tend not to lose vaule, like opening a booster does. If you keep the playset together the vaule tends to increase post rotation.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Back since the beginning this game has cost a lot of money. Black Lotus has costed $1000 for more than a few years now. Bad example, I'm aware of that. But for Constructed formats? Prices have risen, but never has everything been below $10.
Wasn't Jund like super cheap?
Easiest way to get into standard is just buying a good assortment of packs and build from it and then as you get boosters you will get trade stuff and good pulls.
That's the absoilute WORST was to get into standard. You will end up blowing a lot of money, getting maybe 1/3rd the cards you need, and a bunch of worthless cardboard.
Originally Posted by Cephalic
If you're someone who isn't necessarily the most competitive player but wants to get into the standard scene and have a chance, how do you do that without spending a lot?
Buy the 4x common/uncomm sets on ebay for around $35 (they've haven't been 15-25 in like 3 years). Then buy the singles you need after that. That is the surefire cheapest way
But I think with everything hovering around $5-10 if it will stay that way it will work out a lot better this time around. PW's will always be pricier but that's just normal.
Buy the 4x common/uncomm sets on ebay for around $35 (they've haven't been 15-25 in like 3 years). Then buy the singles you need after that. That is the surefire cheapest way
I got 5 sets for $70 shipped 4 months ago, they are only $35 if you buy them as soon as the set comes out. If you look at the completed listings on E-bay there are scars sets that have gone for under $10.
But I think with everything hovering around $5-10 if it will stay that way it will work out a lot better this time around. PW's will always be pricier but that's just normal.
Seems unlikely, once the meta sorts its self out, what ever mythics are in the top decks will likely start rising.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I think the best practice is to preorder. If you really need the card, just go for it. There's a risk of losing some money, but it doesn't matter if you really need it in your deck.
Just like snapcaster mage. When it was spoiled i went ahead and placed my pre-order. Most of my card buddies told me I was crazy for getting them at $20 each. They said the price will eventually drop. Good thing I didn't listen to them
I don't think the card will go over $30, but I don't see it dropping to $15 a pop.
Wrong again.
They already did the reverse once with out making sets bigger or decreasing the number of cards in booster packs, it was called mythic rares.
You can easily drop the number of bosters it takes without changing the number of cards in the set by, increasing the rate at which mythics are found, or printing a smaller porportion of the set as mythics.
Or you can do the second idea of increasing set size while keeping the booster count the same by simply holding the number of mythics the same and increasing the number of cards at other rarities.
You also totally ingored thebpart about rarity levels, and reprint patterns
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
yes, they made certain cards more rare, making less chance of them being in a booster... this doesn't fix the problem of making it easier to obtain a set of certain cards. you're focusing on mythics, when the second most expensive card in standard is a rare.
your logic is flawed in the sense that decreasing the rarity of cards will make it LESS likely for you to get a play-set of a certain non-mythic card, not more. The math doesn't support what you are saying. decreasing the number of mythics only increases the chances of you getting a play set of certain mythics, but decreases the chance of you getting certain rares... also, because of the "power structure" to cards.
There are several problems in your theory of less mythics = more play sets.
1. there are several uncommon in both scars block and zen block (and a lot more) that are worth more than the majority of rares printed. IE inquisition of koz, or more recently, dismember, and before that, go for the throat.
2. as mentioned earlier, the second most expensive card for the next coming weeks in innistrad is a rare (snapcaster mage)
3. you assume that just because they aren't going to print a card as a mythic that it will have the same power level, now that they are dropping it to a rare.
So again i ask you, how does wizards increase chances of you getting a play set of a card (not only mythics) without A. increasing the number of cards per a booster, or B. decreasing the number of cards in a set. and C. without tampering with the statistics of getting certain cards of the same rarity level. (EG, giving snapcaster mage a 2/60 chance of getting printed in a booster instead of the equal 1/60)
Or was I that out of touch with the value of cards back then? I rarely buy singles because I enjoy opening boosters too much. (I know it's more expensive) It wasn't till I started selling all my extra cards on Ebay that I noticed how expensive some cards can be.
It's not much to complain about, but there is a good amount of played cards that cost $40 for a playset still.
Back since the beginning this game has cost a lot of money. Black Lotus has costed $1000 for more than a few years now. Bad example, I'm aware of that. But for Constructed formats? Prices have risen, but never has everything been below $10.
(Click to enter the Frox Experience)
About Frox: for nearly 10 years, Frox has been helping women look good and feel great in easy-fit, mix-and-match, and work-to-weekend with just a few pieces by helping them make the right choices when it comes to clothing and accessories.
Ya, rares aren't the cards with the high pricetags, there is no problem with the rares to fix.
Getting a playset of rares is already easier than it's everbeen, and again the rares aren't the cards making standard expensive.
1. I don't see anyone complaining about, the prices of uncommons, infact high money uncommons tend to lead to lower set vaules while maintating
2. Pre-realease hype means nothing.
3. They should, printing powerful cards at mythic is bad.
I ask why does wizards need to make all cards cheaper? if you want to bring the price of standard down then all you have to do is decrease the price of the expesive card(mythics).
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I really don't understand how it's a problem for really powerful cards to be less common than not powerful cards.
What is "expensive" to you if not the price of rares? all the zen fetch lands still cost in the neighborhood of $9 even though they are about to rotate. inkmoth as well. dismember is a $3 uncommon. Feast is a $20 card because it's ridiculously good, and necessary for a number of highly competitive decks, and because of it's extra rarity (mythic-> which is completely justified for this card) it is expensive, because it's difficult to get a play set of.
If you think it is a "scheme" by Wizards to increase sales, you are probably right. but all this nonsense about turning players away because it's hard to get play sets is gibberish. if wizards is turning people away with mythics, than they are replacing those lost players at a much higher rate, because their stock, and number of sales has gradually increased over the past years, and is actually higher than it ever was pre-mythics. This is all just correlation, and i don't actually think inclusion of mythics increased sales, but it does weaken this theory that mythics turn away customers.
No, even the only kind of good mythics are still more expensive that most rares. Most mythics may not be expensive cards, but most expesive card are mythics.
Did you read? Make mythics more common, decrease the rarity difference between mythics and rares, change how cards are reprinted"
Look at the price diffrence between Jace and stoneforge, Between BSA and the fetches, Between lotus cobra and the manlands.
I haven't run the numbers but as fetches and dismember are ussually used as 4 ofs in every format where the are legal while feast is ussually a one of, they probably have much more demand.
Please show me where I said overall mythics are turning away customers. It's a fact the many poeple have quit and reduced their buying because of mythics, if those number are smaller than the current growth rate of magic, or made up for by targeting a younger audience that's not a surprise. Also as it now take twice as many boosters to get a playset of standard, that means hypothetically 49% of competitive players could have quite and the would still have seen an increase in sale amoung competitive players.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
So basically you want mythics to appear more frequently? Why should they do this? they really don't have a reason at all to do this. Why don't large corporations give people raises when the standards are being met or exceeded? Because there is no reason.
how do you think these online stores get singles to sell? By opening boosters. How do they get the boosters? By buying from Wizards. If they decrease the rarity of mythics, will store owners open more or less boosters to find the mythics to sell? Less; and they will still sell it for the same price, so WotC loses.
Jace is more powerful than stoneforge. BSA is cheaper than the fetches, so nothing to say here. Lotus cobra is better than most manlands, and was extremely powerful in a flagship deck.
where do you get this statistic that it takes twice the boosters to get a playset of standard? yeah, if you have no friends or a community to trade with... but then why are you playing anyways? you might as well be online... and if it matters that much to you, then buy singles.
Do i buy a lot of boosters hoping for mythics? yes. do i get a bunch old rares and mythics i don't need? yes. do i end up trading for the cards i need, using the card pool from opening boosters? yes.
I can only use myself and the people i know as an example, and i know that isn't a very large sample group, but we don't buy any more boosters now than we did 5 years ago. In fact, i buy less (but i attend more drafts).
Dropping the rarity will not help wizards in any way shape or form. so i'll say it again "you keep saying there is a problem and offer no REAL solution."
BASICALLY--> the main point i want to get across, is that wizards makes money from boosters being opened. This isn't so much the players opening the boosters that they make money --> that is where the shops make money. Wizards makes money from shop owners opening packs in order to sell the singles. decreasing the rarity of "money cards" will decrease the number of boosters to be opened by shop keepers, therefore wizards loses money, to fix this they charge the distributes (and shops) more for boosters, and in the end boosters cost more, which will cause them to lose more buyers. So the mythics in turn will still cost the same, because they will sitll be selling it at whatever we will buy it at, because we aren't willing to take the risk of opening 50 boosters to find a money card, where the shops are.
I'm sorry you don't understand supply and demand.
The price is set by the secondary market after WotC determines its supply.
This is why you don't see 20 dollar commons, 15 dollar uncommons, 50 dollar rares in standard.
WotC sets a card at a certain rarity and the price for it will go up or down accordingly.
Or do you think Jace would've ever hit $100 if it was printed at the common level?
The whole aspect of supply/demand is what keeps this interesting for me. I have a recent huge interest in Draft and I almost feel like for a "new" player it might make sense for me to Draft for a certain amount of time (until I happen to have enough cards, or enough to trade for a deck) and then start exploring Standard.
Part of me wants to complain to make the game more "accessible", but if it was too accessible then everyone would just play the same decks and that wouldn't be as interesting.
I guess there isn't much to complain about because most of the cards almost act as an investment and hold at least some remote amount of value. Where's my thread to whine about initial investment and learning curve as opposed to just Standard prices?
/backandforthrant
As for the new set, and people saying how they are disappointed, that when you open a booster you should get a return on your investment(i.e. money card) you are buying a pack of 15 cards, so you are getting your $3 worth with a chance at more.
I pray the value of Snapcaster Mage doesn't tank for all those people preordering at $30 a card, woe to the forums for that.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
Don't change the subjest you asked how they could decrease the price of cards, not why.
Also you totally ignored that two of the solutions I offerd would not need to decrease the number of boosters opened to be implemtented.
If you want a reason why, look at A and P.
Way to be wrong again.
Jace may have been a little more powerful, but it's not enough to make up for the fact it top out at $100 in ebay while stoneforge didn't break $20. BSA Was $40-$50 before repirints.
Despite having a shorter stay in standard, Celestial Colonnade was in over twice as many top 8 decks as cobra.
Standard top 8 decks with cobra
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t%5BT1%5D=1&deck_name%5B%5D=&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2004-05-30&end_date=2011-10-02&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=8&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name%5B1%5D=lotus+cobra&simple_card_name%5B2%5D=&simple_card_name%5B3%5D=&simple_card_name%5B4%5D=&simple_card_name%5B5%5D=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B1%5D=1&card_name%5B1%5D=&comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B2%5D=1&card_name%5B2%5D=&comparison%5B3%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B3%5D=1&card_name%5B3%5D=&comparison%5B4%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B4%5D=1&card_name%5B4%5D=&comparison%5B5%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B5%5D=1&card_name%5B5%5D=&sb_comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B1%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B1%5D=&sb_comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B2%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B1%5D=&card_not%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B3%5D=&card_not%5B4%5D=&card_not%5B5%5D=&order_1=finish&order_2=&limit=25&action=Show+Decks
Standard top 8 deck with collonade.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t_all=All&deck_name%5B%5D=&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2005-08-14&end_date=2011-10-02&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=8&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name%5B1%5D=Celestial+Colonnade&simple_card_name%5B2%5D=&simple_card_name%5B3%5D=&simple_card_name%5B4%5D=&simple_card_name%5B5%5D=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B1%5D=1&card_name%5B1%5D=&comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B2%5D=1&card_name%5B2%5D=&comparison%5B3%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B3%5D=1&card_name%5B3%5D=&comparison%5B4%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B4%5D=1&card_name%5B4%5D=&comparison%5B5%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B5%5D=1&card_name%5B5%5D=&sb_comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B1%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B1%5D=&sb_comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B2%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B1%5D=&card_not%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B3%5D=&card_not%5B4%5D=&card_not%5B5%5D=&order_1=finish&order_2=&limit=25&action=Show+Decks
Pre-mythic normal block 200 rares = 800, now a normal block has 35 mythics = 1120 packs Plus now new cards are printed in core set so that adds another 480 packs = 1600 packs.
Did you read this thread? People are complaining about the high price of singles.
And is it still going to take more packs to make a competitive deck? Yes.
Read please, two solutions didn't invole dropping the rarity.
1. The whole charge more beacuse the are selling less argument has no basis. The reverse dosen't seem to be true.
2. What is good in the short term is not good is not nessarily good in the long term.
3. This is "the complain about standard prices" thread, not the "what is the best move for wotc to make based on our very limited knowledge of thier innerworkings and sales figures thread and how to solve all their other problems" thread.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
When is it considered budget?
I've been trying to find a balance while working on something myself. I find 80% of the cost is in 2-3 mythics. That alone though makes the deck rather expensive for me.
I intended to spend around $35-$50 for a deck but it'll probably be more like $80.
Is that peanuts for most standard players?
If you're someone who isn't necessarily the most competitive player but wants to get into the standard scene and have a chance, how do you do that without spending a lot? It seems like you need to spend quite a bit no matter what. Even a deck with a lot of commons or uncommons like Tempered Steel is still expensive from the perspective of someone entering into standard.
When I got back in shortly before NPH, I just bought a fat pack of Scars, Besieged and NPH and intermittent boosters and bought maybe a cheap playset of something once in a while. Budget I say is when you can make what you want through pulls or by trades, and not spending an arm and a leg.
Easiest way to get into standard is just buying a good assortment of packs and build from it and then as you get boosters you will get trade stuff and good pulls.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
I would reccommend buying common uncommon playsets. You can get them on ebay for around $15-$25 each. It's great for starting out since you get far more cards than you would get than spending the same money on boosters, you have 4 copies of most of the cards you need for a deck, not only does your purches tend not to lose vaule, like opening a booster does. If you keep the playset together the vaule tends to increase post rotation.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Wasn't Jund like super cheap?
That's the absoilute WORST was to get into standard. You will end up blowing a lot of money, getting maybe 1/3rd the cards you need, and a bunch of worthless cardboard.
Buy the 4x common/uncomm sets on ebay for around $35 (they've haven't been 15-25 in like 3 years). Then buy the singles you need after that. That is the surefire cheapest way
Problem solved.
[Commander] Rafiq of the Many (Tier 1)
[Commander] Marchesa, the Black Rose (Tier 1)
[Commander] Five Color Artifacts (Tier 2)
Says the guy with JTMS as his avatar.
But I think with everything hovering around $5-10 if it will stay that way it will work out a lot better this time around. PW's will always be pricier but that's just normal.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
It's going to go down. Look at Goblin guide he never got above $7, and he's arguably the best red 1 drop ever. It's just hype right now.
I got 5 sets for $70 shipped 4 months ago, they are only $35 if you buy them as soon as the set comes out. If you look at the completed listings on E-bay there are scars sets that have gone for under $10.
Seems unlikely, once the meta sorts its self out, what ever mythics are in the top decks will likely start rising.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Just like snapcaster mage. When it was spoiled i went ahead and placed my pre-order. Most of my card buddies told me I was crazy for getting them at $20 each. They said the price will eventually drop. Good thing I didn't listen to them
I don't think the card will go over $30, but I don't see it dropping to $15 a pop.
and what the heck happened to the rav duals? holy cow now they are close to being half as much as the cheap real duals