I was thinking lately about a mono black devotion deck. I thought about Nightveil Specter, for the 3 black devotion, and suddenly I was remembering a card that was doing almost the same as it, but turned out it was dimir, Thief of Sanity.
I always liked playing opponents cards, I used to play Etali, Primal Storm when I play red on modern, and it's super fun. So I was considering playing some kind of dimir around those two cards, but I'm lacking ideas on how to build it. Discard and counters I think it's a must in the deck to protect those creatures. Thoughtseize should be x4, Drown in the Loch, Thought Erasure...
Deck update (24/11/2019 European calendar):
Earliers Drown in the Loch are bad in hands if we don't start fast with Discarting cards. Removing 2 from the playset.
Deck update (09/12/2019 European calendar):
Ashioks weren't performing as good as I wish they did. Instead, cut out 2 out of 3 to add 2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
Deck update (15/12/2019 European calendar):
As UW is rising, I have swapped 2x Collective Brutality into mainboard for 2x Tyrant's Scorn that went to sideboard. I'm still thinking on some cards to fill up already the sideboard.
Deck update (18/12/2019 European calendar):
After testing it, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is finally leaving the mainboard, along with 2x Cast Down in favor of an additional Murderous Rider and 2x Search for Azcanta.
An additional removal for creatures/planeswalkers can help among decks that are climbing, like UW control.
Azcanta can help for those moments where you need to filter your top card, and in late game, for drawing another card at the end of your opponents turn.
Also, 2x Tyrant's Scorn where putted back and removed 2x Drown in the Loch . Drown wasn't performing as well as I wished. Most times I had it in hand, without countering/removing cards because of Delve or the lack of early discard/removal.
I'm not sure about those PW's:
# Ashiok, Dream Render - doesn't work with Drown in the Loch and is more of a SB card imho.
# Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is interesting though not sure if it really excels at anything.
# Narset, Parter of Veils - the deck has too many lands + creatures for the minus ability to be really good so it seems more like a SB card against control to me.
Some other interesting cards he mentioned was Enter the God-Eternals and God-Eternal Kefnet (listed above). First one provides life, creature removal, mill and a 4/4 creature. And Kefnet well, can provide double removal/discard on one turn to control more the opponent.
Well, it's not only creature stealing, it "cards" stealing, all kind of cards haha. But it's a nice card that one too to take in consideration when a threat is already in the battlefield and we don't have a removal in hand.
After testing the deck during this days, I found that Drown in the Loch can be a dead card in hand on early turns. So, I added again 1 Murderous Rider, so when facing against Planeswalkers, I can remove them from play along side with Hero's Downfall.
I really like how the deck is coming out, playing opponents cards against them is funny watching their faces when a huge threat came into my battlefield instead of theirs.
I would consider Collective Brutality in any deck that can play it, at least somewhere in the 75. It's amazing against all the shop decks right now, and it's a Duress against control, with an additional upside.
Totally right @boombox_smk. I will like to know your thought on what would you change from the deck to include them, and how many. Maybe a couple is enough. In my opinion, I could change it for Drown in the Loch.
Maybe on the sideboard? My meta is a bit aggro with monogreen devotion and hardened scales, so in my case it would be better to keep mainboard Drown in the Loch and Collective Brutality on the sideboard.
Totally right @boombox_smk. I will like to know your thought on what would you change from the deck to include them, and how many. Maybe a couple is enough. In my opinion, I could change it for Drown in the Loch.
Maybe on the sideboard? My meta is a bit aggro with monogreen devotion and hardened scales, so in my case it would be better to keep mainboard Drown in the Loch and Collective Brutality on the sideboard.
Personally I like to run 1 main and 2 in the board. I would try running 1 over a Tyrant's Scorn and see how it feels. If you miss the Scorn, go back. If it plays better, try another one. It's really good against aggro too. It can be used as removal and lifegain.
After a bit more testings, as Dennis said, Ashiok wasn't doing that well, so I cutted 2 of the 3 there were on the deck. Also, I added 2 Castle Vantress, so in late game, we can try to prevent to get flooded. It happened to me yesterday, that I was drawing a lot of land cards. We run plenty islands, so it would help more than anything.
The third comment of the post was updated with the new mainboard. Sideboard, in the other hand, still needs to get defined.
After the matches, all my opponents said that this deck was cool and fun, playing against their own cards. And one of them told me he was planning to build something similar with the 8 specters creatures.
Well, after more games played, I decided to remove Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Drown in the Loch completely, and reduce the amount of Cast Down to 2. The reason is explained on the third comment, in the update section.
I'm really liking the direction the deck is following now. Maybe, now that Oko, Thief of Crowns is banned, we could add 1 more God-Eternal Kefnet, so we can get advantage from instants and sorceries.
I always liked playing opponents cards, I used to play Etali, Primal Storm when I play red on modern, and it's super fun. So I was considering playing some kind of dimir around those two cards, but I'm lacking ideas on how to build it. Discard and counters I think it's a must in the deck to protect those creatures. Thoughtseize should be x4, Drown in the Loch, Thought Erasure...
Interesting cards:
Other interesting sideboard cards:
Any ideas?
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, The Scarab God and Murderous Rider/Brazen Borrower.
Some good PW's can be: Liliana, the Last Hope, Liliana, Death's Majesty and Ob Nixilis Reignited.
Some decent interaction in the colors besides the spells already mentioned can be:
Tyrant's Scorn, Cast Down/Murderous Cut/Hero's Downfall and Disallow.
Notion Rain is not bad as a card draw spell and Discovery // Dispersal is decent as well for card selection and GY filling.
Here is a first approach list, let me know your thoughts about it:
4x Drowned Catacomb
2x Island
4x Sunken Hollow
3x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Watery Grave
2x Castle Vantress
Enchantments (3)
1x The Eldest Reborn
2x Search for Azcanta
Creatures (14)
2x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
1x God-Eternal Kefnet
2x Murderous Rider
4x Nightveil Specter
1x The Scarab God
4x Thief of Sanity
1x Enter the God-Eternals
4x Thought Erasure
4x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
Instants (8)
2x Cast Down
2x Hero's Downfall
4x Tyrant's Scorn
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
3x Mystical Dispute
3x Noxious Grasp
1x Pithing Needle
2x Tyrant's Scorn
2x Unmoored Ego
Deck update (12/11/2019 European calendar):
Deck update (13/11/2019 European calendar):
Deck update (24/11/2019 European calendar):
Earliers Drown in the Loch are bad in hands if we don't start fast with Discarting cards. Removing 2 from the playset.
Deck update (09/12/2019 European calendar):
Ashioks weren't performing as good as I wish they did. Instead, cut out 2 out of 3 to add 2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
Deck update (15/12/2019 European calendar):
As UW is rising, I have swapped 2x Collective Brutality into mainboard for 2x Tyrant's Scorn that went to sideboard. I'm still thinking on some cards to fill up already the sideboard.
Deck update (18/12/2019 European calendar):
After testing it, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is finally leaving the mainboard, along with 2x Cast Down in favor of an additional Murderous Rider and 2x Search for Azcanta.
An additional removal for creatures/planeswalkers can help among decks that are climbing, like UW control.
Azcanta can help for those moments where you need to filter your top card, and in late game, for drawing another card at the end of your opponents turn.
Also, 2x Tyrant's Scorn where putted back and removed 2x Drown in the Loch . Drown wasn't performing as well as I wished. Most times I had it in hand, without countering/removing cards because of Delve or the lack of early discard/removal.
# Ashiok, Dream Render - doesn't work with Drown in the Loch and is more of a SB card imho.
# Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is interesting though not sure if it really excels at anything.
# Narset, Parter of Veils - the deck has too many lands + creatures for the minus ability to be really good so it seems more like a SB card against control to me.
Nightveil Specter doesn't seem great to me and its ability is far worse than Thief of Sanity.
I'd consider replacing it with Brazen Borrower (or Nimble Obstructionist) as a flying threat.
Curator of Mysteries might also be an option as either a threat later in the game or a cycler earlier which can be reanimated with The Scarab God.
Sphinx of Foresight isn't a bad flier either with a useful scry ability.
The deck otherwise has some decent threats and interaction so I'd probably look to add some more card draw or card filtering.
Shimmer of Possibility, Discovery // Dispersal, Strategic Planning and Notion Rain (a better Read the Bones).
The deck could probably support a couple copies of Dig Through Time (or at worst Drawn from Dreams).
The PW's I'd prioritize are:
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Liliana, the Last Hope and a 5-mana option between Liliana/Ob Nixilis/Jace.
Jace, Architect of Thought isn't too bad either but seems weaker than the other 2x Jaces.
The deck should be much better without Veil of Summer in the format.
Nightveil Specter, Thief of Sanity and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver are the core cards on the gameplay I was thinking about of "Playing your opponents cards against them".
Some other interesting cards he mentioned was Enter the God-Eternals and God-Eternal Kefnet (listed above). First one provides life, creature removal, mill and a 4/4 creature. And Kefnet well, can provide double removal/discard on one turn to control more the opponent.
I have updated the deck list from above.
Also, added another good potential card such The Eldest Reborn.
I really like how the deck is coming out, playing opponents cards against them is funny watching their faces when a huge threat came into my battlefield instead of theirs.
Deck updated on this thread in the third comment.
Maybe on the sideboard? My meta is a bit aggro with monogreen devotion and hardened scales, so in my case it would be better to keep mainboard Drown in the Loch and Collective Brutality on the sideboard.
Personally I like to run 1 main and 2 in the board. I would try running 1 over a Tyrant's Scorn and see how it feels. If you miss the Scorn, go back. If it plays better, try another one. It's really good against aggro too. It can be used as removal and lifegain.
After a bit more testings, as Dennis said, Ashiok wasn't doing that well, so I cutted 2 of the 3 there were on the deck. Also, I added 2 Castle Vantress, so in late game, we can try to prevent to get flooded. It happened to me yesterday, that I was drawing a lot of land cards. We run plenty islands, so it would help more than anything.
The third comment of the post was updated with the new mainboard. Sideboard, in the other hand, still needs to get defined.
After the matches, all my opponents said that this deck was cool and fun, playing against their own cards. And one of them told me he was planning to build something similar with the 8 specters creatures.
I'm really liking the direction the deck is following now. Maybe, now that Oko, Thief of Crowns is banned, we could add 1 more God-Eternal Kefnet, so we can get advantage from instants and sorceries.