Felidar Guardian, Oath of Nissa and Leyline of Abundance banned.
Off to a good start I say.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Good start. Now let's see how DTT & TC play out. Izzet Phoenix and G Ramp decks play those cards, let's hope they find good competition amongst decks that don't play the blue delves.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I don't hate it, since Cat and ramp both got hit already I'd have liked Oath to stay another week and see how it goes. I was sure cruise would get the banhammer too, looks like I'll get at least 1 more week of fun with it then.
Welp atleast Soulflayer is still alive. I mean they sack Abundance out of the blue because its getting 5-0 result I feel bad for the green mages. I mean Abundance can be answered by a lot of cards.
I mean Abundance can be answered by a lot of cards.
Not really. Turn 0 Leyline maindeck. Possibly multiple on the BF Turn 1. That card doesn't belong in the format. You can't thoughtseize it, Oko can't Elk-en it, enchant hate maindeck is non-existent.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I mean Abundance can be answered by a lot of cards.
Not really. Turn 0 Leyline maindeck. Possibly multiple on the BF Turn 1. That card doesn't belong in the format. You can't thoughtseize it, Oko can't Elk-en it, enchant hate maindeck is non-existent.
1.) And that's philosophy why you put enchantment/artifact hate on your sideboard right? I mean why would you want to have all the answers in your deck in game 1, are control players now a days that greedy? As a control player you see problematic enchantment on game 1 you board in hate cards for it on game 2. I think its too early for them to sack abundance right away, people will eventually put enchantment/artifact hate in their SB.
2.) If you play black why would you want to thoughtseize the Leyline? You should be aiming your thoughtseize for Nissa and other Big bombs. Then you can easily wipe the board with 3cmc spells like Cry of the Carnarnium, Flaying Tendrils and etc..
It's a good hit. On the draw, fragmentize and wear/tear are the only two cards that can tag leyline before they get a chance to use the extra mana, not to mention there is no recourse to them dropping multiple down on turn zero. Turn 2 Nissa were horrifying, especially when the card is it's own mana sink to make your whole team massive in short order.
I don't know that I like the felidar ban. Unlike leyline there are plenty of ways to attack this deck and it's biggest offense is being a combo deck that demands interaction. I think I woulda tagged baby teferi before going after the actual combo. Combos like copycat are probably healthy for the metagame, and taking this hard a stance against combo is kinda disheartening.
I mean why would you want to have all the answers in your deck in game 1, are control players now a days that greedy?
It's not about control. UWx Control has D Sphere & Verdict, they have all the answers game 1...
I didn't mean you need enchant hate maindeck, only that naturally, that kind of hate doesn't belong in main decks, which makes Leyline a very specific permanent type that steals game 1 too many times.
think its too early for them to sack abundance right away, people will eventually put enchantment/artifact hate in their SB.
Players already do that and still fail at beating the deck. Because hate happens too late or is too narrow. I don't think it's a matter of players adapting their SBs, the main decks are already too weak right now. Once the decks will be built optimally, once we see the power level / potential of the format, Wizards can discuss that card again.
I like their approach, they give a chance for decks to rise without a wrench or two in the gears, wrenches that happened to warp the meta in a snap.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Combos like copycat are probably healthy for the metagame
I imagine you are probably right... but that ain't gonna stop players from despising combo and demanding it be categorically banned.
Opponents hate playing against combo, opponents hate playing against control, opponents hate playing against tempo... good thing God gave us midrange, amirite? Nobody could ever hate midrange...
They banned the Leyline in an attempt to salvage Nykthos, shrine to Nyx, it appears. If Nykthos gets banned in the future, the leyline will come back (and probably not impact the format?)
We're returning to Theros pretty soon, so preserving devotion strategies moving forward could be directly implying that they want new devotion cards to play with Nykthos in this format. But will the card still produce too much mana?
What do you think about the policy of banning the support cards instead of the carrying ones?
They banned the Leyline in an attempt to salvage Nykthos, shrine to Nyx, it appears. If Nykthos gets banned in the future, the leyline will come back (and probably not impact the format?)
We're returning to Theros pretty soon, so preserving devotion strategies moving forward could be directly implying that they want new devotion cards to play with Nykthos in this format. But will the card still produce too much mana?
What do you think about the policy of banning the support cards instead of the carrying ones?
I think it should be viewed on a case-by-case basis just like many bans. This isn't like banning cards in Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis instead of just banning Hogaak, itself. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is likely fine in Pioneer, at least it seems that way, so far.
In this case, Leyline of Abundance is really kind of a problem. It's not so quick in Standard because we don't have access to as many 1-mana accelerants, but even then having two turn 1 Leylines and a Gilded Goose gives you 4 mana on turn 2. That same scenario in Pioneer, however, could be a 1-mana dork like Llanowar Elves or Elvish Mystic, 2 Leylines, and a Nykthos on turn 2. Generating 6 mana on 2 is pretty back-breaking.
I imagine you are probably right... but that ain't gonna stop players from despising combo and demanding it be categorically banned.
Opponents hate playing against combo, opponents hate playing against control, opponents hate playing against tempo... good thing God gave us midrange, amirite? Nobody could ever hate midrange...
Isn't this stereotypical flaming 201X style ?
You are very disrespectful to players and Wizards staff, but I guess you know better... amirite ?
This format is not meant to be Modern bis, nor Modern "watered down". It's meant to be its own thing, and Felidar doesn't belong here from W's perspectvive. So be it.
It'd be more accurate to say opponents hate to play in a narrow 3-deck metagame, hate to play matches that last 90+ minutes, they hate to watch their opponent durdle and combo off for 5 minutes, they hate to pack SB cards in their maindeck. All of this is justified !
I personally don't care to see cards banned, I'm only impatient to see the format settle down so I can really taste what Pioneer is supposed to be.
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I'm not entirely convinced, since the leylines themselves give you only one mana each per creature, and don't work when your opponent removes your creatures, while the Nykthos is giving you much more regardless of what you're playing with, regularly netting you 3-5 mana without effort. I think that Nykthos could be a commonly abused card moving forward, and I think that without Nykthos the leyline wouldn't be played at all; and the fact that a monoblack devotion deck even exists, and only exists because of the existence of the land, is kind of a red flag to me.
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Felidar Guardian, Oath of Nissa and Leyline of Abundance banned.
Off to a good start I say.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Oath of Nissa
Layline of Abundance
Felidar Guardian
*A few of you guys beat me to it!*
It's done no damage whatsoever.
Not really. Turn 0 Leyline maindeck. Possibly multiple on the BF Turn 1. That card doesn't belong in the format. You can't thoughtseize it, Oko can't Elk-en it, enchant hate maindeck is non-existent.
1.) And that's philosophy why you put enchantment/artifact hate on your sideboard right? I mean why would you want to have all the answers in your deck in game 1, are control players now a days that greedy? As a control player you see problematic enchantment on game 1 you board in hate cards for it on game 2. I think its too early for them to sack abundance right away, people will eventually put enchantment/artifact hate in their SB.
2.) If you play black why would you want to thoughtseize the Leyline? You should be aiming your thoughtseize for Nissa and other Big bombs. Then you can easily wipe the board with 3cmc spells like Cry of the Carnarnium, Flaying Tendrils and etc..
I don't know that I like the felidar ban. Unlike leyline there are plenty of ways to attack this deck and it's biggest offense is being a combo deck that demands interaction. I think I woulda tagged baby teferi before going after the actual combo. Combos like copycat are probably healthy for the metagame, and taking this hard a stance against combo is kinda disheartening.
It's not about control. UWx Control has D Sphere & Verdict, they have all the answers game 1...
I didn't mean you need enchant hate maindeck, only that naturally, that kind of hate doesn't belong in main decks, which makes Leyline a very specific permanent type that steals game 1 too many times.
Players already do that and still fail at beating the deck. Because hate happens too late or is too narrow. I don't think it's a matter of players adapting their SBs, the main decks are already too weak right now. Once the decks will be built optimally, once we see the power level / potential of the format, Wizards can discuss that card again.
I like their approach, they give a chance for decks to rise without a wrench or two in the gears, wrenches that happened to warp the meta in a snap.
Opponents hate playing against combo, opponents hate playing against control, opponents hate playing against tempo... good thing God gave us midrange, amirite? Nobody could ever hate midrange...
We're returning to Theros pretty soon, so preserving devotion strategies moving forward could be directly implying that they want new devotion cards to play with Nykthos in this format. But will the card still produce too much mana?
What do you think about the policy of banning the support cards instead of the carrying ones?
I think it should be viewed on a case-by-case basis just like many bans. This isn't like banning cards in Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis instead of just banning Hogaak, itself. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is likely fine in Pioneer, at least it seems that way, so far.
In this case, Leyline of Abundance is really kind of a problem. It's not so quick in Standard because we don't have access to as many 1-mana accelerants, but even then having two turn 1 Leylines and a Gilded Goose gives you 4 mana on turn 2. That same scenario in Pioneer, however, could be a 1-mana dork like Llanowar Elves or Elvish Mystic, 2 Leylines, and a Nykthos on turn 2. Generating 6 mana on 2 is pretty back-breaking.
1 Leyline Scenario
Turn 0: Leyline of Abundance
Turn 1: Forest, Llanowar Elves
Turn 2: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Tap Llanowar Elves, get GG. Tap the Forest for G. Activate Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, get GGG. You now have 4 usable mana on turn 2.
2 Leyline Scenario
Turn 0: Leyline of Abundance, Leyline of Abundance.
Turn 1: Forest, Llanowar Elves.
Turn 2: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Tap Llanowar Elves, get GGG. Tap the Forest for G. Activate Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, get GGGGG. You now have 7 usable mana on turn 2.
Unlike Leyline of Abundance, you usually don't play Black Leylines maindeck.
Monoblack Devotion Scenario
Turn 1: Swamp.
Turn 2: Swamp. Gifted Aetherborn.
Turn 3: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. It costs both Swamps to activate, and you get BB.
For the sake of fairness, lets throw in a maindeck Leyline of the Void for fun.
Turn 0: Leyline of the Void.
Turn 1: Swamp.
Turn 2: Swamp. Gifted Aetherborn.
Turn 3: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. It costs both Swamps to activate, and you get BBBB.
Now we've accelerated by 1 mana. That's hardly anything on turn 3. Certainly not 4 mana on turn 2.
Again for the sake of fairness, lets throw in a second maindeck Leyline of the Void for extra fun.
Turn 0: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of the Void.
Turn 1: Swamp.
Turn 2: Swamp. Gifted Aetherborn.
Turn 3: Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. It costs both Swamps to activate, and you get BBBBBB.
Now we've generated 6 mana on turn 3. This is 1 less mana than the Green scenario, but more importantly its a whole extra turn later.
It's not even close.
Field of Ruin might be better than Tectonic Edge in this case, because you can use it a turn earlier, even earlier if they never hit 4 lands.
Isn't this stereotypical flaming 201X style ?
You are very disrespectful to players and Wizards staff, but I guess you know better... amirite ?
This format is not meant to be Modern bis, nor Modern "watered down". It's meant to be its own thing, and Felidar doesn't belong here from W's perspectvive. So be it.
It'd be more accurate to say opponents hate to play in a narrow 3-deck metagame, hate to play matches that last 90+ minutes, they hate to watch their opponent durdle and combo off for 5 minutes, they hate to pack SB cards in their maindeck. All of this is justified !
I personally don't care to see cards banned, I'm only impatient to see the format settle down so I can really taste what Pioneer is supposed to be.
I'm not entirely convinced, since the leylines themselves give you only one mana each per creature, and don't work when your opponent removes your creatures, while the Nykthos is giving you much more regardless of what you're playing with, regularly netting you 3-5 mana without effort. I think that Nykthos could be a commonly abused card moving forward, and I think that without Nykthos the leyline wouldn't be played at all; and the fact that a monoblack devotion deck even exists, and only exists because of the existence of the land, is kind of a red flag to me.