for weather the storm, i think the 1 of in MB is good enough to stabilize early game and be reuse from stream of thought in the late game, we should rely on fog effects most of the time. the extra copies of weather the storm are primarily used against burn or pestilence deck.
Well, I'm certainly sad to hear the forum is closing down! Though it looks like someone might be buying/taking of the site?. Glad I got to throw something into the fray beforehand, and thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I've spent a lot of time on forums over the years and, sadly, they're all starting to fade away... these kinds of thread make me happy. And, yes! My username is the same on MTGO We've probably faced off before. Feel free to add me as a friend and send a message
To the meat of it!
Lands: I usually play heavy control decks so I love lands! I'd even consider going to 21 for that 3rd Desert or one Radiant Fountain, haha. The way I see it, cards like Brainstorm and Preordain (and Think Twice, to an extent) are fantastic at allowing a greedier land-base to work. But, you have 20 draw spells and my version has 17. Even with the two extra lands I'm one card up.
You're right, though, Pieces of the Puzzle doesn't get lands. But, with a higher land count you're more likely to draw them naturally and you can safely fit in more Pieces of the Puzzle. Bonus, because Pieces of the Puzzle drops cards into the graveyard (and the only non-instants and sorceries in the main deck are lands) Pieces of the Puzzle mills unwanted lands. I think the more you play Pieces of the Puzzle the more you'll love it. Getting to choose two from a fog, a good draw spell (sometimes another Pieces of the Puzzle, a counterspell, and a wincon just feels great. Added bonus, no Accumulated Knowledges in your graveyard? Bin them with Pieces of the Puzzle and play the others you have. With five mana you look at 5 cards, choose 2, draw 2. Gross.
Take Inventory: Not being an instant feels bad because we would draw all of our cards before the discard step instead of on our opponent's end step but it seems good enough to try. To test with my list, I would cut Hieroglyphic Illumination, one Stream of Thought, one Impulse and an island. Good idea with this one.
Faerie Trickery and other exiling denial: I haven't tried Faerie Trickery, no. I couldn't think of another thing I really wanted to counter that wouldn't be hit by other, cheaper counters, and since No Escape is one blue instead of two and gives you a scry. I thought... why not, haha. That being said, I haven't once countered a Ulamog's Crusher, so maybe it's not good. Could even be better as a Syncopate.
Rust: Glad you agree on this one! Will have to see how it works in practice.
Faerie Macabre: Some decks only play one Ghostly Flicker and one Pulse of Murasa, and with two and all the shuffling back in, you could cast it a few times. Definitely not a slam dunk, though. Tron is just tough! Really good against the Familiars/Flicker deck, though.
Delver matchup: Yeah, you're right; the sideboard is light there. I haven't been facing UR Delver as much as I'd like (Though I did watch a video on Spell Slam's channel where he played the UW version and crushed a buddy of mine I play with in paper, haha. He was so tilted!). I'm going to go down the Echoing Truth and up an Aerial Volley. Perhaps even down one Weather the Storm for a second Aerial Volley. 4 in the 75 seem like too much with all the card draw and you only need one to beat Burn! All comes down to meta with how the meta evolves, though.
@killer_eye: Good points about the early game and being able to cast Pieces of the Puzzle and Hieroglyphic Illumination. That's where the extra land comes in for me. If my third turn is Pieces of the Puzzle, I'm happy to go shields down and take some damage to the face. Regarding Brainstorm, I'm not sure there is enough shuffle effects without Augur of Bolas or the 6 fetch lands (4 Evolving Wilds/2 Ash Barrens) that most blue/red decks run, I've just found it to be clunky. That being said, it is undoubtedly really powerful.
One last thing I forgot to mention before: Respite: If you're playing the version that doesn't want to flash back Moment's Peace because you'd rather shuffle it back in, it might make sense to play a split of Moment's Peace and Respite.
Again, this has all been really helpful. Thank you both for your thoughts! Apparently we've only got 6 days to make this a Tier One deck, LUL
Hi guys. Just wanting to say that I really appriciate all the recent decussion in this thread. I love this archtype, but I rarely play pauper so my experience with the deck is very limited, and thats why I love that you share yours! Thanks a lot.
Few points I should add to my twoprevious posts before the forum goes bye-bye:
If you're planning on shuffling fogs back in, Respite is better than Moment's Peace because of Desert and Weather the Storm. Good players realize they are going to get Respited or Tangled and they attack with only a handful of creatures, maybe even less than lethal. Desert makes this awkward for your opponent by limiting the amount of creatures that want to attack. Weather the Storm makes these low damage attacks less potent. Together, they slow down the opponent's clock and allow you to save a fog or two.
Well, I'm certainly sad to hear the forum is closing down! Though it looks like someone might be buying/taking of the site?. Glad I got to throw something into the fray beforehand, and thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I've spent a lot of time on forums over the years and, sadly, they're all starting to fade away... these kinds of thread make me happy. And, yes! My username is the same on MTGO We've probably faced off before. Feel free to add me as a friend and send a message
Well, that's certainly a strange announcement. This is likely going to fracture the community even more. I'll definitely be maintaining my primers here, but I will also move over to MTGNexus to try and foster a great Pauper Community there.
You're right, though, Pieces of the Puzzle doesn't get lands. But, with a higher land count you're more likely to draw them naturally and you can safely fit in more Pieces of the Puzzle. Bonus, because Pieces of the Puzzle drops cards into the graveyard (and the only non-instants and sorceries in the main deck are lands) Pieces of the Puzzle mills unwanted lands. I think the more you play Pieces of the Puzzle the more you'll love it. Getting to choose two from a fog, a good draw spell (sometimes another Pieces of the Puzzle, a counterspell, and a wincon just feels great. Added bonus, no Accumulated Knowledges in your graveyard? Bin them with Pieces of the Puzzle and play the others you have. With five mana you look at 5 cards, choose 2, draw 2. Gross.
There's no denying that Puzzle is a great card. In a deck with little to no Jace's Erasure, it's one of the best draw spells to choose from. Among late game options, it's probably the best. It's like a fat Impulse. I just don't think I can justify 4 copies given that it's a sorcery, costs 3 mana and doesn't get lands in my 18 land deck. It's still worth running at least as a 2-of in my deck, though. Thanks again for the great suggestion!
I feel even better running a single copy of Erasure because I can fetch it up with Muddle the Mixture. I'm not quite ready to give up on Muddle yet, especially since it fetches Erasure, Weather the Storm, Moment's Peace and a third or fourth Accumulated Knowledge. Maybe with less draw triggers, Curse would end up pulling more weight, and would allow me to get away from brainstorm and fetchlands and lean more heavily on Impulse and friends. We'll see.
Faerie Trickery and other exiling denial: I haven't tried Faerie Trickery, no. I couldn't think of another thing I really wanted to counter that wouldn't be hit by other, cheaper counters, and since No Escape is one blue instead of two and gives you a scry. I thought... why not, haha. That being said, I haven't once countered a Ulamog's Crusher, so maybe it's not good. Could even be better as a Syncopate.
Delver matchup: Yeah, you're right; the sideboard is light there. I haven't been facing UR Delver as much as I'd like (Though I did watch a video on Spell Slam's channel where he played the UW version and crushed a buddy of mine I play with in paper, haha. He was so tilted!). I'm going to go down the Echoing Truth and up an Aerial Volley. Perhaps even down one Weather the Storm for a second Aerial Volley. 4 in the 75 seem like too much with all the card draw and you only need one to beat Burn! All comes down to meta with how the meta evolves, though.
This game:
I could really tell he was tilted in the second game. He had the right idea to wait for Clear the Mind to come up, but it was so late in the game that I just had way too much countermagic to fight back. Tell your buddy I'm sorry! I legitimately felt bad playing this deck because it was such a horrible grind for everyone.
When it comes to burn, I think we would need multiple Weather the Storms to be able to beat them, but shuffling copies back in certainly helps. I'm just afraid that with Thermo-Alchemists, Ghitu Lavarunners and Curse of the Pierced Hearts, they just have too much constant damage for us to handle. Penumbra Spider certainly helps in that matchup as well. Desert will probably play a role there too.
One last thing I forgot to mention before: Respite: If you're playing the version that doesn't want to flash back Moment's Peace because you'd rather shuffle it back in, it might make sense to play a split of Moment's Peace and Respite.
Again, this has all been really helpful. Thank you both for your thoughts! Apparently we've only got 6 days to make this a Tier One deck, LUL
Respite could definitely be due for a comeback. Maybe I would replace 1 Moment's Peace and 1 Fog for 2 of them. Good call!
Hi guys. Just wanting to say that I really appreciate all the recent discussion in this thread. I love this archetype, but I rarely play pauper so my experience with the deck is very limited, and that's why I love that you share yours! Thanks a lot.
Anyone happens to play on cockatrice?
Thanks for chiming in! That's what forums are for! This is the best place on the internet to talk about Turbo Fog and improving our game!
I used to store all my decklists there to test them out before buying cards, but as I got busier I ended up cutting out that part of the process and working mostly on MTGO for deck-building. I never actually used it to play against people.
You really want Impulse but if I had to choose an alternative I would choose Peer Through Depths. It doesn't hit lands but it digs one deeper than Impulse. Anticipate would be fine, though. I wouldn't bother with anything sorcery speed.
thanks! i'm on anticipate now as i value the ability to get lands in the early turns. about moment's peace and respite split, i think it's still better to have moment's peace all-in, it's ability for a flashback really matter during our stabilizing turn, later on the game when we are executing stream of thoughts plan, fog and tangle are already good choices to shuffle into our library, during this turn i'm more on fog (specially if you want to storm off) in order to efficiently use my mana for fog + backup arcane denial + stream of thought (with replicate activation) + card draw spell.
Depends on the rest of your build, I suppose. With 4 Pieces of the Puzzle and 1 Uncovered Clues, I've rarely felt light on fogs (if anything, I have too many and discard them!). Flashing back a Moment's Peace in the graveyard seems very last resort as it thins your deck of fogs. The life gain on Respite is also relevant in some of the worst match ups. That being said, I haven't tested enough with it to know for sure, and it may be personal preference.
btw, is it ok for us to not fully return the max amount of cards from a replicated stream of thought?
Definitely okay! Your order looks correct but keep in mind that what you should return differs a bit as the game goes long. This is really where the skill comes in for the deck, and it can be hard to know what is correct given the game state.
I would never return a Preordain/Ponder/Brainstorm unless I was worried I was going to deck or other, better cards, have all been exiled by graveyard hate. Impulse (on in your case, Anticipate) is a maybe depending on how deep you are in your deck (if you've got 20 cards left, your deck is probably saturated enough with good spells to be able to forgo Impulse, but if there are 40 cards left in your library, maybe having Impulse to dig for something else is good). Accumulated Knowledge and Pieces of the Puzzle (or any other draw spell) work the same way. Whether you return Arcane Denial depends on whether you need it, and that depends on a lot of things. Also, how many lands you've discarded or milled makes a difference; if you know your deck is stacked with lands and you don't need any, you may want Pieces of the Puzzle over that 4th Accumulated Knowledge.
I hope its ok that I crash a little the discussion, yesterday evening I searched the net, and build a version for Turbofog what could suit me,
that was before I heared from this topic and also from the version for adding Stream of Thought , because I like an love the Idea of Jace doing his work you know
The deck looks fine for the most part, but I do have a few comments.
The first and most important thing: If you care about the Ban list, you should remove Gush, as it was banned a few weeks ago.
With Jhessian Thief being you only creature, it will most likely die to all the removal you opponent will have rotting in their hand. Turbo Fog is traditionally a 0-creature deck (though I have won on the back of a Krosan Tusker before), and it has a lot of incentive to stay that way. Part of the strategy is not only denying victory through combat, but also causing a type of card advantage through blanking cards in the opponents' deck.
Have you tested Betrayal? It may not be as effective as you think at drawing you cards. The opponent will most likely stop attacking with the creature (unless they can use it to win), making it more like semi-effective removal.
Call to Heel in the sideboard also has me scratching my head a bit. You're going to use this more often on your opponents, so why let them draw? I feel like there would be better bounce cards to run, like Snap, Snapback, Echoing Truth or Capsize.
Otherwise, you should check out the new toys we've been given in the last two sets, namely Weather the Storm and Stream of Thought. They really push the deck to new limits and lend themselves to very interesting deck-building!
Have you tested Betrayal? It may not be as effective as you think at drawing you cards. The opponent will most likely stop attacking with the creature (unless they can use it to win), making it more like semi-effective removal.
hi guys! i've read that tron is a bad matchup. i play in paper and haven't got a chance to play a lot against tron. can you share what do we need to look out for and what are good sideboards against them? i only knew ulamog, pulse of murasa for ulamog and nothing else thanks!
note: sorry i know there are different versions of tron, but i'm really lost about that archetype
hi guys! i've read that tron is a bad matchup. i play in paper and haven't got a chance to play a lot against tron. can you share what do we need to look out for and what are good sideboards against them? i only knew ulamog, pulse of murasa for ulamog and nothing else thanks!
note: sorry i know there are different versions of tron, but i'm really lost about that archetype
Here's a video of me taking down one of the more difficult builds of Tron for Turbo Fog:
You should also take a look at the primer on the first page. In the section "Matchups" look for "Tron" and you'll see my analysis for the different archetypes and sideboarding suggestions.
In essence, you'll need at least 2 pieces of hate to really deal with them effectively. Usually a counterspell and something to exile (or both with Faerie Trickery) will get rid of important pieces and get rid of their late-game engine.
Targeting and exiling Ghostly Flicker is usually a good idea, since this is the piece they run fewer of, though Mnemonic Wall also appears as a 2-3-of in their maindeck. It can be difficult to fight them with either of these cards in their hand/play as well as countermagic of their own, since they trade 1-for-1 and then get their card back and start grinding you down.
There's also the matter of juggling with the fact that they are beating you down with Mulldrifters and Dinrova Horrors, which means you can't only focus on their flicker plan post-sideboard. They also run Pyroblast/REB.
With careful playing and some lucky milling at the right time, you can get them.
That's all good for Murasa Tron (the one that is mostly UBG colours), but what about Temur Tron URG?
This matchup is much, much easier. Their main win condition is a fast Ulamog's Crusher and Fangren Marauders as well as Rolling Thunder. This sounds like it would be a horrible matchup for us, but it's actually the opposite. This deck basically has so few relevant cards in it that by the time they run out a threat, we are ready with multiple layers of countermagic and all set to beat them. They run very little counters of their own, mainly Condescend. Pyroblasts in the sideboard, but this matchup lets us sideboard out more fogs, so it's easier to fight with more deck space as a U(g) Draw-Go deck.
super thanks! definitely a big help. i'm also sorry for not checking the primer first before asking here, i was also overwhelm with how many versions/name tron has that i don't know where to start. i'll definitely check that video of yours!
hi peaceful mtg players! just wanna ask for suggestion on what to replace aerial volley with? i tried playing a few games and here are my observations:
- faeries are nowhere to be seen, thus my post about aerial volley replacement
- X/2 creatures are the norms
- ephemerate is annoying (but the fact they play less counterspells than the old faeries deck makes it tolerable for me)
I got completely smooshed by Hidden Spider just a couple days ago.
I also really like playing Penumbra Spider. At 4 mana, it can be hard to cast, but it's hard for a Delver player to have 4 faeries for Spellstutter Sprite, so they absolutely need a hard counter for it. I gums up the board very effetively and needs a combination of removal and combat to really get rid of, making it almost a 4-for-1 in many cases.
Wow, I had completely forgotten that there were any commons in that cycle. Seems like an awesome sideboard option against Faeries and such for any deck running green. I don't know why we don't see it more often.
Hidden Spider is sometimes a pretty risky card because it gets eaten by Spellstutter Sprite very easily from turn 2 and on, and very late in the game, they can afford not to play their fliers to not activate the enchantment. It's far and away the best flyer-hate spell if you land it on turn 1, though. Otherwise, get ready for a counter war.
If you look at some of my recent videos versus delver, you'll see me having great success with Penumbra Spider, with the opponent stone-walled by this unkillable monster.
Aerial Volley can still handle Skyfishers and Glint Hawks. If you're looking for something that can handle Arcum's Astrolabe as well then maybe try Crushing Vines. Take Down is also pretty flexible since it can deal with faeries as well as bigger flying threats. Against decks that run the Skyfisher plan I'd probably go with Hidden Spider over Penumbra Spider since the 3 power is more relevant against 3 toughness.
wow upkeep many thanks! i just finished watching all those 5 turbo fog upload of yours.
here's my observation: desert - is not good like we thought it would be, it shine G1 against the jeskai deck that uses spellstutter but the opponent able to play around it afterwards, there are a lot of games that it's not a factor and worst case let's us manascrew or cause our mulligan.
jace's erasure - this card is still our primary wincon and presents our clock, might increase to 3.
weather the storm - just wow! mvp specially against the astrolabe package, i really like it and might try maindecking a 2-of.
can you share your after thoughts for those matches and adjustments moving forward? looking forward for more turbo fog contents from you, i really missed watching this videos, again super thanks!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
accumulated knowledge potentially draws more cards over think twice. 10 vs 8. like what you'v said you can easily mill you're 1st accumulated knowledge with jace's erasure self mill or stream of thought. with stream of thought you can shuffle the 3rd/4th copy of accumulated knowledge from graveyard to potentially draw 3~4 cards.
for weather the storm, i think the 1 of in MB is good enough to stabilize early game and be reuse from stream of thought in the late game, we should rely on fog effects most of the time. the extra copies of weather the storm are primarily used against burn or pestilence deck.
To the meat of it!
Lands: I usually play heavy control decks so I love lands! I'd even consider going to 21 for that 3rd Desert or one Radiant Fountain, haha. The way I see it, cards like Brainstorm and Preordain (and Think Twice, to an extent) are fantastic at allowing a greedier land-base to work. But, you have 20 draw spells and my version has 17. Even with the two extra lands I'm one card up.
You're right, though, Pieces of the Puzzle doesn't get lands. But, with a higher land count you're more likely to draw them naturally and you can safely fit in more Pieces of the Puzzle. Bonus, because Pieces of the Puzzle drops cards into the graveyard (and the only non-instants and sorceries in the main deck are lands) Pieces of the Puzzle mills unwanted lands. I think the more you play Pieces of the Puzzle the more you'll love it. Getting to choose two from a fog, a good draw spell (sometimes another Pieces of the Puzzle, a counterspell, and a wincon just feels great. Added bonus, no Accumulated Knowledges in your graveyard? Bin them with Pieces of the Puzzle and play the others you have. With five mana you look at 5 cards, choose 2, draw 2. Gross.
Stream of Thought and Jace's Erasure Split: I should test with one Jace's Erasure. I haven't done that justice. Pieces of the Puzzle doesn't get it but with the Brainstorms in your list it's easier to activate. I've always been partial to Curse of the Bloody Tomb, though. That's another one to mess around with.
Take Inventory: Not being an instant feels bad because we would draw all of our cards before the discard step instead of on our opponent's end step but it seems good enough to try. To test with my list, I would cut Hieroglyphic Illumination, one Stream of Thought, one Impulse and an island. Good idea with this one.
Faerie Trickery and other exiling denial: I haven't tried Faerie Trickery, no. I couldn't think of another thing I really wanted to counter that wouldn't be hit by other, cheaper counters, and since No Escape is one blue instead of two and gives you a scry. I thought... why not, haha. That being said, I haven't once countered a Ulamog's Crusher, so maybe it's not good. Could even be better as a Syncopate.
Rust: Glad you agree on this one! Will have to see how it works in practice.
Faerie Macabre: Some decks only play one Ghostly Flicker and one Pulse of Murasa, and with two and all the shuffling back in, you could cast it a few times. Definitely not a slam dunk, though. Tron is just tough! Really good against the Familiars/Flicker deck, though.
Return to Nature: It's the versatility. Takes out Pestilence or Curse of the Pierced Heart, exiles Ghostly Flicker, forces a use of Relic of Progenitus.
Delver matchup: Yeah, you're right; the sideboard is light there. I haven't been facing UR Delver as much as I'd like (Though I did watch a video on Spell Slam's channel where he played the UW version and crushed a buddy of mine I play with in paper, haha. He was so tilted!). I'm going to go down the Echoing Truth and up an Aerial Volley. Perhaps even down one Weather the Storm for a second Aerial Volley. 4 in the 75 seem like too much with all the card draw and you only need one to beat Burn! All comes down to meta with how the meta evolves, though.
@killer_eye: Good points about the early game and being able to cast Pieces of the Puzzle and Hieroglyphic Illumination. That's where the extra land comes in for me. If my third turn is Pieces of the Puzzle, I'm happy to go shields down and take some damage to the face. Regarding Brainstorm, I'm not sure there is enough shuffle effects without Augur of Bolas or the 6 fetch lands (4 Evolving Wilds/2 Ash Barrens) that most blue/red decks run, I've just found it to be clunky. That being said, it is undoubtedly really powerful.
One last thing I forgot to mention before: Respite: If you're playing the version that doesn't want to flash back Moment's Peace because you'd rather shuffle it back in, it might make sense to play a split of Moment's Peace and Respite.
Again, this has all been really helpful. Thank you both for your thoughts! Apparently we've only got 6 days to make this a Tier One deck, LUL
Anyone happens to play on cockatrice?
If you're planning on shuffling fogs back in, Respite is better than Moment's Peace because of Desert and Weather the Storm. Good players realize they are going to get Respited or Tangled and they attack with only a handful of creatures, maybe even less than lethal. Desert makes this awkward for your opponent by limiting the amount of creatures that want to attack. Weather the Storm makes these low damage attacks less potent. Together, they slow down the opponent's clock and allow you to save a fog or two.
Devious Cover-Up's shuffling ability isn't proving to be that useful with 4 Stream of Thoughts. I'm removing it to try other stuff.
Uncovered Clues is a pretty solid 5th Pieces of the Puzzle if, like me, you love Pieces of the Puzzle.
Current list
On MTGO sub 2 Annul for 2 Rust in the sideboard.
4 Tangle
4 Respite
4 Fog
2 Weather the Storm
Card Draw
4 Pieces of the Puzzle
1 Uncovered Clues
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Impulse
4 Preordain
4 Stream of Thought
Denial
4 Arcane Denial
1 Dispel
Land
8 Island
2 Forest
3 Simic Growth Chamber
4 Thornwood Falls
3 Desert
2 Return to Nature
2 Dispel
2 Hydroblast
2 Aerial Volley
1 No Escape
2 Weather the Storm
2 Rust
2 Faerie Macabre
Well, that's certainly a strange announcement. This is likely going to fracture the community even more. I'll definitely be maintaining my primers here, but I will also move over to MTGNexus to try and foster a great Pauper Community there.
I'll definitely add you on MTGO. Thanks!
There's no denying that Puzzle is a great card. In a deck with little to no Jace's Erasure, it's one of the best draw spells to choose from. Among late game options, it's probably the best. It's like a fat Impulse. I just don't think I can justify 4 copies given that it's a sorcery, costs 3 mana and doesn't get lands in my 18 land deck. It's still worth running at least as a 2-of in my deck, though. Thanks again for the great suggestion!
I feel even better running a single copy of Erasure because I can fetch it up with Muddle the Mixture. I'm not quite ready to give up on Muddle yet, especially since it fetches Erasure, Weather the Storm, Moment's Peace and a third or fourth Accumulated Knowledge. Maybe with less draw triggers, Curse would end up pulling more weight, and would allow me to get away from brainstorm and fetchlands and lean more heavily on Impulse and friends. We'll see.
This game:
I could really tell he was tilted in the second game. He had the right idea to wait for Clear the Mind to come up, but it was so late in the game that I just had way too much countermagic to fight back. Tell your buddy I'm sorry! I legitimately felt bad playing this deck because it was such a horrible grind for everyone.
When it comes to burn, I think we would need multiple Weather the Storms to be able to beat them, but shuffling copies back in certainly helps. I'm just afraid that with Thermo-Alchemists, Ghitu Lavarunners and Curse of the Pierced Hearts, they just have too much constant damage for us to handle. Penumbra Spider certainly helps in that matchup as well. Desert will probably play a role there too.
Respite could definitely be due for a comeback. Maybe I would replace 1 Moment's Peace and 1 Fog for 2 of them. Good call!
Thanks for chiming in! That's what forums are for! This is the best place on the internet to talk about Turbo Fog and improving our game!
I used to store all my decklists there to test them out before buying cards, but as I got busier I ended up cutting out that part of the process and working mostly on MTGO for deck-building. I never actually used it to play against people.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
note: i do play in paper and i think it will take me sometime to get a copy of it.
btw, is it ok for us to not fully return the max amount of cards from a replicated stream of thought? in my playtest there are times when i only return 6 or 7 cards (not sure if this correct). my priorities to return are: (not in order)
- stream of thought
- 3rd/4th accumulated knowledge
- fog
- pieces of the puzzle
- brainstorm
- ponder (least option)
Depends on the rest of your build, I suppose. With 4 Pieces of the Puzzle and 1 Uncovered Clues, I've rarely felt light on fogs (if anything, I have too many and discard them!). Flashing back a Moment's Peace in the graveyard seems very last resort as it thins your deck of fogs. The life gain on Respite is also relevant in some of the worst match ups. That being said, I haven't tested enough with it to know for sure, and it may be personal preference.
Definitely okay! Your order looks correct but keep in mind that what you should return differs a bit as the game goes long. This is really where the skill comes in for the deck, and it can be hard to know what is correct given the game state.
I would never return a Preordain/Ponder/Brainstorm unless I was worried I was going to deck or other, better cards, have all been exiled by graveyard hate. Impulse (on in your case, Anticipate) is a maybe depending on how deep you are in your deck (if you've got 20 cards left, your deck is probably saturated enough with good spells to be able to forgo Impulse, but if there are 40 cards left in your library, maybe having Impulse to dig for something else is good). Accumulated Knowledge and Pieces of the Puzzle (or any other draw spell) work the same way. Whether you return Arcane Denial depends on whether you need it, and that depends on a lot of things. Also, how many lands you've discarded or milled makes a difference; if you know your deck is stacked with lands and you don't need any, you may want Pieces of the Puzzle over that 4th Accumulated Knowledge.
It's tough, though. Let's say your 2nd or 3rd Desert is in your library and you want it, and you have the option of returning a Streams of Thought, a Fog, a Pieces of the Puzzle, and an Impulse. If you're good on fogs, you return Stream of Thought, Fog, and Impulse, because you don't need the Pieces of the Puzzle to get you more fogs and using Pieces of the Puzzle could mill your Desert. If you're not good on fogs, perhaps you get all four.
And this is why Stream of Thought is so much fun!
I hope its ok that I crash a little the discussion, yesterday evening I searched the net, and build a version for Turbofog what could suit me,
that was before I heared from this topic and also from the version for adding Stream of Thought , because I like an love the Idea of Jace doing his work you know
Deck: Pauper Turbo Fog
//Main
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Arcane Denial
2 Betrayal
4 Brainstorm
1 Compulsive Research
1 Counterspell
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Fog
2 Forest
1 Gush
6 Island
4 Jace's Erasure
2 Jhessian Thief
4 Moment's Peace
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Respite
2 Simic Growth Chamber
4 Thornwood Falls
//Sideboard
2 Call to Heel
1 Counterspell
4 Dispel
2 Hydroblast
3 Quiet Disrepair
3 Tormod's Crypt
Deckstatistik anzeigen
Or do ya think this Idea is the worst possible way to play?
The deck looks fine for the most part, but I do have a few comments.
The first and most important thing: If you care about the Ban list, you should remove Gush, as it was banned a few weeks ago.
With Jhessian Thief being you only creature, it will most likely die to all the removal you opponent will have rotting in their hand. Turbo Fog is traditionally a 0-creature deck (though I have won on the back of a Krosan Tusker before), and it has a lot of incentive to stay that way. Part of the strategy is not only denying victory through combat, but also causing a type of card advantage through blanking cards in the opponents' deck.
Have you tested Betrayal? It may not be as effective as you think at drawing you cards. The opponent will most likely stop attacking with the creature (unless they can use it to win), making it more like semi-effective removal.
Call to Heel in the sideboard also has me scratching my head a bit. You're going to use this more often on your opponents, so why let them draw? I feel like there would be better bounce cards to run, like Snap, Snapback, Echoing Truth or Capsize.
Otherwise, you should check out the new toys we've been given in the last two sets, namely Weather the Storm and Stream of Thought. They really push the deck to new limits and lend themselves to very interesting deck-building!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
This was my first try, so I looked around
- because of Gush I didn't know that it is/was banned so I will take it out.
- 2 Betrayal yeah I thought it could work either he stops attacking or it gives an advantage,
But I could change this 3 to 3 Stream of thoughts or 2 Streams and 1 Echoing Truth
And the 2 Csll to Heel against 2 Capsize maybe?
Thx in advance
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
That's where Narcolepsy or Curse of Chains comes in! Just... not in Turbo Fog probably
note: sorry i know there are different versions of tron, but i'm really lost about that archetype
Here's a video of me taking down one of the more difficult builds of Tron for Turbo Fog:
You should also take a look at the primer on the first page. In the section "Matchups" look for "Tron" and you'll see my analysis for the different archetypes and sideboarding suggestions.
In essence, you'll need at least 2 pieces of hate to really deal with them effectively. Usually a counterspell and something to exile (or both with Faerie Trickery) will get rid of important pieces and get rid of their late-game engine.
Targeting and exiling Ghostly Flicker is usually a good idea, since this is the piece they run fewer of, though Mnemonic Wall also appears as a 2-3-of in their maindeck. It can be difficult to fight them with either of these cards in their hand/play as well as countermagic of their own, since they trade 1-for-1 and then get their card back and start grinding you down.
There's also the matter of juggling with the fact that they are beating you down with Mulldrifters and Dinrova Horrors, which means you can't only focus on their flicker plan post-sideboard. They also run Pyroblast/REB.
With careful playing and some lucky milling at the right time, you can get them.
That's all good for Murasa Tron (the one that is mostly UBG colours), but what about Temur Tron URG?
This matchup is much, much easier. Their main win condition is a fast Ulamog's Crusher and Fangren Marauders as well as Rolling Thunder. This sounds like it would be a horrible matchup for us, but it's actually the opposite. This deck basically has so few relevant cards in it that by the time they run out a threat, we are ready with multiple layers of countermagic and all set to beat them. They run very little counters of their own, mainly Condescend. Pyroblasts in the sideboard, but this matchup lets us sideboard out more fogs, so it's easier to fight with more deck space as a U(g) Draw-Go deck.
Hope this helps!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
- faeries are nowhere to be seen, thus my post about aerial volley replacement
- X/2 creatures are the norms
- ephemerate is annoying (but the fact they play less counterspells than the old faeries deck makes it tolerable for me)
I also really like playing Penumbra Spider. At 4 mana, it can be hard to cast, but it's hard for a Delver player to have 4 faeries for Spellstutter Sprite, so they absolutely need a hard counter for it. I gums up the board very effetively and needs a combination of removal and combat to really get rid of, making it almost a 4-for-1 in many cases.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
If you look at some of my recent videos versus delver, you'll see me having great success with Penumbra Spider, with the opponent stone-walled by this unkillable monster.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Aerial Volley can still handle Skyfishers and Glint Hawks. If you're looking for something that can handle Arcum's Astrolabe as well then maybe try Crushing Vines. Take Down is also pretty flexible since it can deal with faeries as well as bigger flying threats. Against decks that run the Skyfisher plan I'd probably go with Hidden Spider over Penumbra Spider since the 3 power is more relevant against 3 toughness.
here's my observation:
desert - is not good like we thought it would be, it shine G1 against the jeskai deck that uses spellstutter but the opponent able to play around it afterwards, there are a lot of games that it's not a factor and worst case let's us manascrew or cause our mulligan.
jace's erasure - this card is still our primary wincon and presents our clock, might increase to 3.
weather the storm - just wow! mvp specially against the astrolabe package, i really like it and might try maindecking a 2-of.
can you share your after thoughts for those matches and adjustments moving forward? looking forward for more turbo fog contents from you, i really missed watching this videos, again super thanks!