I think you can find something better than Waterfront Bouncer, I really don't like the discard for his activation. Silent Departure can be a good replacement, even though it's not an instant. It gives you 2 casts with one copy and can be good to hold you over until you can afford the Buyback on Capsize.
I actually am a big fan of the Bouncer. First of all, look at his guns. I mean, really. Second, He'll turn any useless card in your hand into a bounce spell (namely an Island too many). He discourages attacks with big dudes. You use his bounce effect to basically destroy any creature with a counter, which is a very powerful effect. It's basically like killing any creature and making them waste mana or even an entire turn. Waterfront Bouncer dominates. And he's a damn good surfer, too.
I could see running some number of Curfew, maybe instead of Vapor Snag. The point of life is pretty useless anyways, since my creatures almost all hit for 2.
I'm interested in Withdraw. If the second creature I target were to be my own, then I would be the one choosing whether to pay or not, right? So I could return, say, a Fathom Seer as well as another opponent's creature for maximum effect, without the opponent choosing anything.
I can see how Bouncer would be useful to pitch lands, but I'd rather run him if I had more Flashback/graveyard usage, but if he works keep him. I haven't tried him out, so you sold me on giving him a whirl.
And Withdraw works how you said if you target your own guys, you make the choice to pay or not so it can essentially be a Curfew 5-8. So using Withdraw can put in a lot of work for you in both ways, bouncing your own guys or potentially clearing two threats.
As far as the rest of the sideboard, I feel you have you bases covered. How much testing/play have you done with the updated list?
Definitely try him out. He's just as bad-ass as he looks.
Yeah, Withdraw seems like a solid choice as an upgraded Curfew for an extra mana. I think I'll get my hands on some and include that into the sideboard first.
Here's what it looks like (I'm posting the list again since we started a new page. Hope that's not spam):
I've yet to do any testing. I have a day off tomorrow, so I'll split some time between this and the RGSpikeshot Goblin deck I've been working on.
Well, here's an update:
I like the changes! I'm especially astonished with how serviceable Desert was! I think I'll be cutting the Quicksand to have a playset, as having multiple in play makes attacking very difficult for the opponent. I'd be interested in seeing how they would interact with Sentinels of Glen Elendra.
The Brainstorms were good. They found me counters sometimes when I really needed one. Sometimes, however, I wished they were Ponders, just for the shuffling effect. It's depressing to know that you'll be drawing nothing but lands for the next two turns. The instant speed is what makes the difference with it and ponder though, so they'll be staying.
I used Capsize quite a bit, considering that I only have one (buyback helps with that :D). I guess I was lucky in drawing it often. It's a tad expensive to use, but it's reusable, and I managed to counter threats that were already on the battlefield thanks to it.
Halimar Wavewatch... Where to begin? It's a bit mana-intensive, which made playing with it a bit difficult. I definitely wasn't putting a counter on it every turn mostly because I have to activate Level Up only as a sorcery. That being said, putting one counter on it made sure that it could block anything in sight. I haven't tested against any Faerie decks, so the no-flying thing might be an issue. Eventually getting it to a 6/6 really turns the game around, though. By then I have the board under control and I can counter spells as they come, so attacking with a 6/6, protecting it, and leaving something back to defend is really easy. And if I draw it in the late game when everything is under control and I have lots of mana, I can afford to spend 4 or more just for the level up to have a finisher in no time. It's a good addition and I like it, but I'm not entirely convinced that it replaces Sentinels just yet. It's going to need some more testing.
I haven't played any post-board games, so I haven't tried Withdraw yet!
All in all, very happy with the changes. I've seen a definite improvement in playability!
Posts merged, in future please use the edit button rather than multiposting. -RabidVacin
I've been playing my MUC list for a while now, and as much as it does quite well sometimes, other times it really feels inadequate, flooding me with cards I don't need.
What's wrong with my list, though? Too many lands? 24 seems standard, and Oona's Grace cycles excess. Should I be using Brainstorm or Ponder? What should I take out for it? Do I need more draw in general? I have 19 cards that either draw cards or replace themselves.
Any ideas?
-------------------------------------
Here is the original post from the thread previous to the Primer!
Well, this needs some work now that things have been merged. I am sure you know but I would completely change your first post in this thread to your primer and the title to be in conjunction with the other primer titles in this sub-forum.
Anyways, here are some things I'll post off dealing with the Pauper format and the Peasant format in case you wanted to add a different section for both, I took out what you had already included into the primer so these are all new additions if you so choose. Quite a number of these I actually use in some of my other MUC decks such as Force of Will.
Yes, I'm getting on that right now! I was sort of expecting the changes to put my new post at the beginning of the thread, but I guess it's complicated!
I'll edit the first post! How does one go about changing the title of a post?
And thanks for all the suggestions! I'll get started on a Peasant primer, with many of the cards you mentioned. We'll be able to discuss some of the Pauper choices. For one, I just want to highlight the fine line between MUC and the popular Delver deck. Many of the creatures you mentioned are part of the latter, and I find they don't fit the bill of what a MUC deck is (cold, hard control, rather than control with a clock). If you start putting small creatures into your MUC, your opponent's creatures will march right past you, because theirs are both faster and stronger in most cases.
The Piracy Charm is already in the Primer, under sideboard.
Thanks for suggesting Rewind and Serrated Arrows, I'll add that in. What is your opinion on Treasure Hunt? It seems like most of the time, it would net just one card, which isn't that great. It's also a sorcery.
Yes, I'm getting on that right now! I was sort of expecting the changes to put my new post at the beginning of the thread, but I guess it's complicated!
I'll edit the first post! How does one go about changing the title of a post?
And thanks for all the suggestions! I'll get started on a Peasant primer, with many of the cards you mentioned. We'll be able to discuss some of the Pauper choices. For one, I just want to highlight the fine line between MUC and the popular Delver deck. Many of the creatures you mentioned are part of the latter, and I find they don't fit the bill of what a MUC deck is (cold, hard control, rather than control with a clock). If you start putting small creatures into your MUC, your opponent's creatures will march right past you, because theirs are both faster and stronger in most cases.
The Piracy Charm is already in the Primer, under sideboard.
Thanks for suggesting Rewind and Serrated Arrows, I'll add that in. What is your opinion on Treasure Hunt? It seems like most of the time, it would net just one card, which isn't that great. It's also a sorcery.
In order to change the title of your thread go to your original post and hit the edit button, then you will see "Go to advanced" on the bottom right of your post; click that then you will see the title above your post and you can just change it as you would normally.
I knew Piracy Charm was in the primer, but I had a huge list of cards to add to the primer as I was originally planning on making one, (but I decided I didn't want to make all the primers which is why I didn't make any more lol), Anyways I just forgot to remove that card from my list before I posted it lol.
As for Treasure Hunt, it is really to just get rid of dead draw (land) so you can get to your good stuff, obviously not the best card but still a suggestion.
In order to change the title of your thread go to your original post and hit the edit button, then you will see "Go to advanced" on the bottom right of your post; click that then you will see the title above your post and you can just change it as you would normally.
I knew Piracy Charm was in the primer, but I had a huge list of cards to add to the primer as I was originally planning on making one, (but I decided I didn't want to make all the primers which is why I didn't make any more lol), Anyways I just forgot to remove that card from my list before I posted it lol.
As for Treasure Hunt, it is really to just get rid of dead draw (land) so you can get to your good stuff, obviously not the best card but still a suggestion.
Thanks a lot, I got that done!
Treasure hunt has the potential to be decent, but I think it would need more cards that manipulate the top card of you library to work well. Something like Index, Spy Network or just plain more Brainstorm and Ponder.
What is your assessment on Rewind? It's a cool card, but 4-mana is a bit of a drawback, especially since there's not really a way to abuse the untapping.
Silkbind Faerie is an interesting choice. I can see it being useful, since it can attack and take out an attacker while also being able to block. Paying 3 mana during your turn is getting kind of expensive, though. It also requires mana for every activation. For a creature to be worth that investment, I would want an immediate impact, like Fathom Seer (and even then, he can return two lands and let you play one, basically costing 2 mana).
Could you include an MBC Cloudpost decklist? I've always been curious to see stuff about them.
Yes, I definitely can. However, I think you would probably learn more about playing that deck by looking at an UR Post Primer (there's a good one on this site), as you can basically see it as mono-blue with a red splash. There are a lot of neat things that a mono-Blue list can afford to do with its' space, but I think overall that the UR version is better.
Rewind would go well as a one of. It's a dead draw if you get it before turn five or six, in a deck that desperately needs to have all its cards be doing something.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
Rewind is a nice card I think personally. I mean it is a free counterspell much like Daze can essentially be free or how Snap is.
I dunno, I like the card but I will admit it is a late game counterspell when you have the cards and mana to spare.
What are you using that extra mana for, though? Sure, you get to untap your lands after it resolves, but what are you going to do with them then? It's not as though you can flash in a Snapcaster Mage or Restoration Angel in this format.
What are you using that extra mana for, though? Sure, you get to untap your lands after it resolves, but what are you going to do with them then? It's not as though you can flash in a Snapcaster Mage or Restoration Angel in this format.
If your deck is setup for draw, the extra mana could be used for any number of things since your hand should nearly be half to completely full, the Pauper/Peasant format is very diverse so their is a use for mana depending. It may not be apparent but I'm sure a brilliant idea is out there.
What are you using that extra mana for, though? Sure, you get to untap your lands after it resolves, but what are you going to do with them then? It's not as though you can flash in a Snapcaster Mage or Restoration Angel in this format.
The mana from Rewind can be used to play instant-speed draw, like Think Twice, creatures with flash like Sentinels of Glen Elendra or to just have another counter to play to counter two cards in a turn.
Silkbind Faerie is an interesting choice. I can see it being useful, since it can attack and take out an attacker while also being able to block. Paying 3 mana during your turn is getting kind of expensive, though. It also requires mana for every activation. For a creature to be worth that investment, I would want an immediate impact, like Fathom Seer (and even then, he can return two lands and let you play one, basically costing 2 mana).
I've added a matchup analysis for White Weenie and Goblins. I've also added in a few more card choices.
I also wanted to point out that in my current version of the deck, I left the Halimar Wavewatches and went back to Sentinels of Glen Elendra. It might be because of my personal play style, but I was so happy to go back to them. Being able to Flash-block and actually kill creatures makes all the difference, not to mention flying was very important against matches like Delver. And I don't have to invest so much mana in order to start doing damage. Wavewatch is good, but Sentinels just seem to 1-up them at everything. I think I'll test out Frostburn Weird next, as it seems promising as well.
If your deck is setup for draw, the extra mana could be used for any number of things since your hand should nearly be half to completely full, the Pauper/Peasant format is very diverse so their is a use for mana depending. It may not be apparent but I'm sure a brilliant idea is out there.
Actually, my point is that there's not a great option in this format for an instant-speed lategame spell. Yes, Pauper is diverse, but many of the best spells in the format are one and two drops. There are probably more options to work with in Peasant; I don't play the format.
If you think there's a deck in Pauper that exploits Rewind, tell us about it. I don't think that deck is out there. In Peasant, there very well might be.
The mana from Rewind can be used to play instant-speed draw, like Think Twice, creatures with flash like Sentinels of Glen Elendra or to just have another counter to play to counter two cards in a turn.
Sure, I get that, but let's imagine those cases if we replace Rewind with a two-mana counter such as Mana Leak or Memory Lapse:
- You have four mana open. You can counter with Mana Leak, then cast the front side of Think Twice. If you have five mana open, you can cast either side of Think Twice. (Accumulated Knowledge maybe?)
- You have four mana open. You can counter a spell with Mana Leak, then counter another with Counterspell etc.
- The two-mana spell would not allow you to play Sentinels, but frankly I don't think Sentinels is a powerful enough card, and I probably wouldn't run it. If you think Sentinels is good enough, Rewind could be a good complement. Personally, I'd rather run Spire Golem in that role.
Ever considered putting Alexi's Cloak in the sideboard against Mono Black Control?
No I haven't. I have yet to test against MBC, but I think it's going to be a really bad matchup because of all the discard. I doubt Alexi's Cloak will alleviate that very much, but I might try it. Thanks!
Sure, I get that, but let's imagine those cases if we replace Rewind with a two-mana counter such as Mana Leak or Memory Lapse:
- You have four mana open. You can counter with Mana Leak, then cast the front side of Think Twice. If you have five mana open, you can cast either side of Think Twice. (Accumulated Knowledge maybe?)
- You have four mana open. You can counter a spell with Mana Leak, then counter another with Counterspell etc.
- The two-mana spell would not allow you to play Sentinels, but frankly I don't think Sentinels is a powerful enough card, and I probably wouldn't run it. If you think Sentinels is good enough, Rewind could be a good complement. Personally, I'd rather run Spire Golem in that role.
lol two can play at that game.
- Let's say I have 4 mana open. I counter with Rewind and follow up with either end of Think Twice. I have 1 or two mana left over to potentially counter again, against having zero mana left.
- I have four mana open. I counter with Rewind, then counter with Counterspell. I have two mana left over instead of zero, which could allow me to counter even a third time or play a draw spell.
- I don't just think Sentinels of Glen Elendra is good enough, I think it's the very best creature after Spire Golem in Pauper MUC. Yup :nod:. Sentinels don't replace Golems (which don't even fit in this scenario because they don't have flash), they are the next best thing.
All this to say that I don't think I'd personally run Rewind as 4 mana is kinda hefty and won't be useful in earlier turns like a normal counter. It does have many up-sides, though.
All this to say that I don't think I'd personally run Rewind as 4 mana is kinda hefty and won't be useful in earlier turns like a normal counter. It does have many up-sides, though.
Yeah, my point was more that I don't think Rewind gives you that much upside over a two-mana counter in Pauper. Whereas a two-mana counter has a huge upside, in that it's relevant when you have two or three lands instead of four. If there weren't so many good two-mana counters in the format, or if I was on the Sentinels plan, I'd consider a Rewind or two.
Yeah, my point was more that I don't think Rewind gives you that much upside over a two-mana counter in Pauper. Whereas a two-mana counter has a huge upside, in that it's relevant when you have two or three lands instead of four. If there weren't so many good two-mana counters in the format, or if I was on the Sentinels plan, I'd consider a Rewind or two.
Yeah, usually the choices are good enough in the 2-mana slot that having a 4 mana counter is not necessary. Even with Sentinels being really good in my opinion, it's still not reason enough to play it.
Happy 1,000th post, by the way!
I've added a few cards and cleaned up the OP a bit (I can't believe I forgot Impulse!!). I've also added a rating for all card suggestions in the "building the deck" section. I rated as follows : 5= Staple, 4= Very useful and appropriate, 3= Somewhat useful, 2= Sometimes useful, 1= Rarely useful.
I've also added a matchup analysis for Mono-Black Control. It ended up being quite favorable for MUC! Our draw is just so much better that it leaves MBC in top-deck mode without having taken control of the game. I never would have thought!
Edit: I've added the matchup analysis versus Infect and Burn.
A few losses in that matchup were due to that card! This actually changes the win % significantly. I had built this deck by following the Goblins primer in the MTGO section, so I made a mistake in including it Death Spark.
The Banner on the front page is up and it looks fantastic! thanks so much, Ace5301 from Ace of Spades Studio!
What do you all think of Rune Snag? Does it have a place in this kind of slow controlling build?
I sort like that card as a four of in a deck for obvious reasons, but I'm not sure if I would want to give an opponent even the slightest chance of using a spell I see worthy of a counter. I am a big time fan of the plain old simple hard counters like Counterspell and Dispel. If you need to counter it, get it out of here and I don't want to see it again lol.
Repulse or Withdraw could be alternate choices too.
How do you feel about the sideboard already? Anything you think is lacking?
I could see running some number of Curfew, maybe instead of Vapor Snag. The point of life is pretty useless anyways, since my creatures almost all hit for 2.
I'm interested in Withdraw. If the second creature I target were to be my own, then I would be the one choosing whether to pay or not, right? So I could return, say, a Fathom Seer as well as another opponent's creature for maximum effect, without the opponent choosing anything.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
And Withdraw works how you said if you target your own guys, you make the choice to pay or not so it can essentially be a Curfew 5-8. So using Withdraw can put in a lot of work for you in both ways, bouncing your own guys or potentially clearing two threats.
As far as the rest of the sideboard, I feel you have you bases covered. How much testing/play have you done with the updated list?
Yeah, Withdraw seems like a solid choice as an upgraded Curfew for an extra mana. I think I'll get my hands on some and include that into the sideboard first.
Here's what it looks like (I'm posting the list again since we started a new page. Hope that's not spam):
4 Counterspell
4 Prohibit
4 Faerie Trickery
4 Exclude
Draw (9)
4 Think Twice
2 Oona's Grace
3 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
Creatures (10)
4 Spire Golem
3 Halimar Wavewatch
3 Fathom Seer
Lands (24)
20 Island
2 Quicksand
2 Desert
2 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Annul
4 Hydroblast
4 Withdraw
I've yet to do any testing. I have a day off tomorrow, so I'll split some time between this and the RG Spikeshot Goblin deck I've been working on.
Well, here's an update:
I like the changes! I'm especially astonished with how serviceable Desert was! I think I'll be cutting the Quicksand to have a playset, as having multiple in play makes attacking very difficult for the opponent. I'd be interested in seeing how they would interact with Sentinels of Glen Elendra.
The Brainstorms were good. They found me counters sometimes when I really needed one. Sometimes, however, I wished they were Ponders, just for the shuffling effect. It's depressing to know that you'll be drawing nothing but lands for the next two turns. The instant speed is what makes the difference with it and ponder though, so they'll be staying.
I used Capsize quite a bit, considering that I only have one (buyback helps with that :D). I guess I was lucky in drawing it often. It's a tad expensive to use, but it's reusable, and I managed to counter threats that were already on the battlefield thanks to it.
Halimar Wavewatch... Where to begin? It's a bit mana-intensive, which made playing with it a bit difficult. I definitely wasn't putting a counter on it every turn mostly because I have to activate Level Up only as a sorcery. That being said, putting one counter on it made sure that it could block anything in sight. I haven't tested against any Faerie decks, so the no-flying thing might be an issue. Eventually getting it to a 6/6 really turns the game around, though. By then I have the board under control and I can counter spells as they come, so attacking with a 6/6, protecting it, and leaving something back to defend is really easy. And if I draw it in the late game when everything is under control and I have lots of mana, I can afford to spend 4 or more just for the level up to have a finisher in no time. It's a good addition and I like it, but I'm not entirely convinced that it replaces Sentinels just yet. It's going to need some more testing.
I haven't played any post-board games, so I haven't tried Withdraw yet!
All in all, very happy with the changes. I've seen a definite improvement in playability!
Posts merged, in future please use the edit button rather than multiposting. -RabidVacin
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I've been playing my MUC list for a while now, and as much as it does quite well sometimes, other times it really feels inadequate, flooding me with cards I don't need.
4 Counterspell
4 Prohibit
4 Faerie Trickery
4 Exclude
Draw (6)
4 Think Twice
2 Oona's Grace
Removal/ Bounce (4)
2 Curse of Chains
2 Into the Roil
4 Spire Golem
3 Sentinels of Glen Elendra
3 Fathom Seer
Lands (24)
21 Island
2 Quicksand
1 Halimar Depths
2 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Annul
4 Hydroblast
4 Vapor Snag
What's wrong with my list, though? Too many lands? 24 seems standard, and Oona's Grace cycles excess. Should I be using Brainstorm or Ponder? What should I take out for it? Do I need more draw in general? I have 19 cards that either draw cards or replace themselves.
Any ideas?
-------------------------------------
Here is the original post from the thread previous to the Primer!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Anyways, here are some things I'll post off dealing with the Pauper format and the Peasant format in case you wanted to add a different section for both, I took out what you had already included into the primer so these are all new additions if you so choose. Quite a number of these I actually use in some of my other MUC decks such as Force of Will.
PAUPER MUC
Counters
Rewind
Draw
Board control
Creatures
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PEASANT MUC
Counters
Draw
Board control
Creatures
Lands
W White Weenie
I'll edit the first post! How does one go about changing the title of a post?
And thanks for all the suggestions! I'll get started on a Peasant primer, with many of the cards you mentioned. We'll be able to discuss some of the Pauper choices. For one, I just want to highlight the fine line between MUC and the popular Delver deck. Many of the creatures you mentioned are part of the latter, and I find they don't fit the bill of what a MUC deck is (cold, hard control, rather than control with a clock). If you start putting small creatures into your MUC, your opponent's creatures will march right past you, because theirs are both faster and stronger in most cases.
The Piracy Charm is already in the Primer, under sideboard.
Thanks for suggesting Rewind and Serrated Arrows, I'll add that in. What is your opinion on Treasure Hunt? It seems like most of the time, it would net just one card, which isn't that great. It's also a sorcery.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
In order to change the title of your thread go to your original post and hit the edit button, then you will see "Go to advanced" on the bottom right of your post; click that then you will see the title above your post and you can just change it as you would normally.
I knew Piracy Charm was in the primer, but I had a huge list of cards to add to the primer as I was originally planning on making one, (but I decided I didn't want to make all the primers which is why I didn't make any more lol), Anyways I just forgot to remove that card from my list before I posted it lol.
As for Treasure Hunt, it is really to just get rid of dead draw (land) so you can get to your good stuff, obviously not the best card but still a suggestion.
W White Weenie
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
Thanks a lot, I got that done!
Treasure hunt has the potential to be decent, but I think it would need more cards that manipulate the top card of you library to work well. Something like Index, Spy Network or just plain more Brainstorm and Ponder.
What is your assessment on Rewind? It's a cool card, but 4-mana is a bit of a drawback, especially since there's not really a way to abuse the untapping.
Silkbind Faerie is an interesting choice. I can see it being useful, since it can attack and take out an attacker while also being able to block. Paying 3 mana during your turn is getting kind of expensive, though. It also requires mana for every activation. For a creature to be worth that investment, I would want an immediate impact, like Fathom Seer (and even then, he can return two lands and let you play one, basically costing 2 mana).
Yes, I definitely can. However, I think you would probably learn more about playing that deck by looking at an UR Post Primer (there's a good one on this site), as you can basically see it as mono-blue with a red splash. There are a lot of neat things that a mono-Blue list can afford to do with its' space, but I think overall that the UR version is better.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I dunno, I like the card but I will admit it is a late game counterspell when you have the cards and mana to spare.
W White Weenie
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
What are you using that extra mana for, though? Sure, you get to untap your lands after it resolves, but what are you going to do with them then? It's not as though you can flash in a Snapcaster Mage or Restoration Angel in this format.
If your deck is setup for draw, the extra mana could be used for any number of things since your hand should nearly be half to completely full, the Pauper/Peasant format is very diverse so their is a use for mana depending. It may not be apparent but I'm sure a brilliant idea is out there.
W White Weenie
The mana from Rewind can be used to play instant-speed draw, like Think Twice, creatures with flash like Sentinels of Glen Elendra or to just have another counter to play to counter two cards in a turn.
Silkbind Faerie is an interesting choice. I can see it being useful, since it can attack and take out an attacker while also being able to block. Paying 3 mana during your turn is getting kind of expensive, though. It also requires mana for every activation. For a creature to be worth that investment, I would want an immediate impact, like Fathom Seer (and even then, he can return two lands and let you play one, basically costing 2 mana).
I've added a matchup analysis for White Weenie and Goblins. I've also added in a few more card choices.
I also wanted to point out that in my current version of the deck, I left the Halimar Wavewatches and went back to Sentinels of Glen Elendra. It might be because of my personal play style, but I was so happy to go back to them. Being able to Flash-block and actually kill creatures makes all the difference, not to mention flying was very important against matches like Delver. And I don't have to invest so much mana in order to start doing damage. Wavewatch is good, but Sentinels just seem to 1-up them at everything. I think I'll test out Frostburn Weird next, as it seems promising as well.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
Actually, my point is that there's not a great option in this format for an instant-speed lategame spell. Yes, Pauper is diverse, but many of the best spells in the format are one and two drops. There are probably more options to work with in Peasant; I don't play the format.
If you think there's a deck in Pauper that exploits Rewind, tell us about it. I don't think that deck is out there. In Peasant, there very well might be.
Sure, I get that, but let's imagine those cases if we replace Rewind with a two-mana counter such as Mana Leak or Memory Lapse:
- You have four mana open. You can counter with Mana Leak, then cast the front side of Think Twice. If you have five mana open, you can cast either side of Think Twice. (Accumulated Knowledge maybe?)
- You have four mana open. You can counter a spell with Mana Leak, then counter another with Counterspell etc.
- The two-mana spell would not allow you to play Sentinels, but frankly I don't think Sentinels is a powerful enough card, and I probably wouldn't run it. If you think Sentinels is good enough, Rewind could be a good complement. Personally, I'd rather run Spire Golem in that role.
No I haven't. I have yet to test against MBC, but I think it's going to be a really bad matchup because of all the discard. I doubt Alexi's Cloak will alleviate that very much, but I might try it. Thanks!
lol two can play at that game.
- Let's say I have 4 mana open. I counter with Rewind and follow up with either end of Think Twice. I have 1 or two mana left over to potentially counter again, against having zero mana left.
- I have four mana open. I counter with Rewind, then counter with Counterspell. I have two mana left over instead of zero, which could allow me to counter even a third time or play a draw spell.
- I don't just think Sentinels of Glen Elendra is good enough, I think it's the very best creature after Spire Golem in Pauper MUC. Yup :nod:. Sentinels don't replace Golems (which don't even fit in this scenario because they don't have flash), they are the next best thing.
All this to say that I don't think I'd personally run Rewind as 4 mana is kinda hefty and won't be useful in earlier turns like a normal counter. It does have many up-sides, though.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Yeah, my point was more that I don't think Rewind gives you that much upside over a two-mana counter in Pauper. Whereas a two-mana counter has a huge upside, in that it's relevant when you have two or three lands instead of four. If there weren't so many good two-mana counters in the format, or if I was on the Sentinels plan, I'd consider a Rewind or two.
Yeah, usually the choices are good enough in the 2-mana slot that having a 4 mana counter is not necessary. Even with Sentinels being really good in my opinion, it's still not reason enough to play it.
Happy 1,000th post, by the way!
I've added a few cards and cleaned up the OP a bit (I can't believe I forgot Impulse!!). I've also added a rating for all card suggestions in the "building the deck" section. I rated as follows : 5= Staple, 4= Very useful and appropriate, 3= Somewhat useful, 2= Sometimes useful, 1= Rarely useful.
I've also added a matchup analysis for Mono-Black Control. It ended up being quite favorable for MUC! Our draw is just so much better that it leaves MBC in top-deck mode without having taken control of the game. I never would have thought!
Edit: I've added the matchup analysis versus Infect and Burn.
Edit: The matchup analysis section is complete!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
A few losses in that matchup were due to that card! This actually changes the win % significantly. I had built this deck by following the Goblins primer in the MTGO section, so I made a mistake in including it Death Spark.
The Banner on the front page is up and it looks fantastic! thanks so much, Ace5301 from Ace of Spades Studio!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
I sort like that card as a four of in a deck for obvious reasons, but I'm not sure if I would want to give an opponent even the slightest chance of using a spell I see worthy of a counter. I am a big time fan of the plain old simple hard counters like Counterspell and Dispel. If you need to counter it, get it out of here and I don't want to see it again lol.
W White Weenie
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...