So I have been playing on mtgo recently with some jank pauper cards that I got for free from bots. I a playing a mono-red goblin fling deck with traitorous instinct. It's super fun and holds its own against creature based decks, but it really gets wrecked against the grixis/mono black decks that play creature sacrifice and chittering rats to stall the heck out of the game. These decks are so degenerative and un-fun to play against because they just stall me out then counter my stuff and chittering rats makes me put cards on top of my library so I can never topdeck an answer. Is there any ways to beat these decks for mon-red? Or to counter the dang creature abilities that give them card advantage? Thanks
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
So I have been playing on mtgo recently with some jank pauper cards that I got for free from bots. I a playing a mono-red goblin fling deck with traitorous instinct. It's super fun and holds its own against creature based decks, but it really gets wrecked against the grixis/mono black decks that play creature sacrifice and chittering rats to stall the heck out of the game. These decks are so degenerative and un-fun to play against because they just stall me out then counter my stuff and chittering rats makes me put cards on top of my library so I can never topdeck an answer. Is there any ways to beat these decks for mon-red? Or to counter the dang creature abilities that give them card advantage? Thanks
Those decks are, in fact, not degenerative. You are playing a combo deck, which is what they are traditionally good at beating.
You are quite literally rock saying scissors are fine, please nerf paper.
That being said, a specific list would make it much easier to help you out. What exactly are you playing?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Like I mentioned this is just all free stuff. I was playing it to get to used to MTGO. Basically I run out chip damage with small goblins, then with a skirk prospector out I traitous blood your biggest creature and attack for all then fling it in your face. The other option is litter the board, heartlash cinder, falter, attack, fling. Font of Ire, spikeshot goblin, and skinbrand goblin are all kind of filler spots. I would be open to another color if it could help me get some card advantage going.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Turns out the word degenerate is used to describe combo decks, not control decks. To drive the point home, it would more likely describe your deck than the decks you're having trouble with. The word is thrown about pretty wildly in general, but generally describes decks that don't play "real" Magic. A Legacy/Vintage dredge deck would be the epitome of a "not real Magic" deck.
If you're counting on a combo finish, you might consider other decks that do similar things, try them (proxy/paper/cockatrice/etc.) to see how they work and why they are better against different archetypes. Decks like Affinity have more speed, and while they have a Atog/Fling finish, their creatures are MUCH more capable of doing the job themselves.
Even further along the combo spectrum is something like Bogles or Infect, which sometimes uses cards like Gitaxian Probe and Apostle's Blessing to ensure the coast is clear and protect combo pieces.
You said this was a budget deck so I imagine your resources might be constrained, but borrowing/trying/proxying other similar decks (attack-based combo) is still possible, and would help illustrate how other decks handle opposing strategies like control.
Turns out the word degenerate is used to describe combo decks, not control decks. To drive the point home, it would more likely describe your deck than the decks you're having trouble with. The word is thrown about pretty wildly in general, but generally describes decks that don't play "real" Magic. A Legacy/Vintage dredge deck would be the epitome of a "not real Magic" deck.
If you're counting on a combo finish, you might consider other decks that do similar things, try them (proxy/paper/cockatrice/etc.) to see how they work and why they are better against different archetypes. Decks like Affinity have more speed, and while they have a Atog/Fling finish, their creatures are MUCH more capable of doing the job themselves.
Even further along the combo spectrum is something like Bogles or Infect, which sometimes uses cards like Gitaxian Probe and Apostle's Blessing to ensure the coast is clear and protect combo pieces.
You said this was a budget deck so I imagine your resources might be constrained, but borrowing/trying/proxying other similar decks (attack-based combo) is still possible, and would help illustrate how other decks handle opposing strategies like control.
Definition of degenerative: characterized by progressive, often irreversible deterioration
The game starts with three or four slow turns on their end of playing dork lands to gain life and playing removal on anything that hits the board. Then they play counters and creatures with discard effects to lock you out of the board and then follow up with fat creatures like gurmag angler along with flashback removal to wreck you on card advantage.
Turns out you really have no clue what you are talking about. My deck is not a combo deck, it is an alternative more aggro based burn deck. Sometimes a combo finish works but is not how I usually win. I mentioned it because I find it fun to fling big creatures out of nowhere as I don't often anticipate the move myself, I'll make it a point to not point out the odd synergy that some cards in my deck have the next time I ask for help. Considering this style of B/UB is 60-70% of the decks on MTGO this is quite "un-fun" and before you decide to try and complain some more about my "Combo deck" this was an issue two years ago when I first bought MTGO and bought a landfall pauper deck. I could not beat the deck with an aggro based deck that benefits from land triggers and in fact is the reason I stopped playing MTGO the first time.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Turns out the word degenerate is used to describe combo decks, not control decks. To drive the point home, it would more likely describe your deck than the decks you're having trouble with. The word is thrown about pretty wildly in general, but generally describes decks that don't play "real" Magic. A Legacy/Vintage dredge deck would be the epitome of a "not real Magic" deck.
If you're counting on a combo finish, you might consider other decks that do similar things, try them (proxy/paper/cockatrice/etc.) to see how they work and why they are better against different archetypes. Decks like Affinity have more speed, and while they have a Atog/Fling finish, their creatures are MUCH more capable of doing the job themselves.
Even further along the combo spectrum is something like Bogles or Infect, which sometimes uses cards like Gitaxian Probe and Apostle's Blessing to ensure the coast is clear and protect combo pieces.
You said this was a budget deck so I imagine your resources might be constrained, but borrowing/trying/proxying other similar decks (attack-based combo) is still possible, and would help illustrate how other decks handle opposing strategies like control.
Definition of degenerative: characterized by progressive, often irreversible deterioration Here are some more definitions that fit the description of the style of play of pauper control.
The game starts with three or four slow turns on their end of playing dork lands to gain life and playing removal on anything that hits the board. Then they play counters and creatures with discard effects to lock you out of the board and then follow up with fat creatures like gurmag angler along with flashback removal to wreck you on card advantage.
Turns out you really have no clue what you are talking about. My deck is not a combo deck, it is an alternative more aggro based burn deck. Sometimes a combo finish works but is not how I usually win. I mentioned it because I find it fun to fling big creatures out of nowhere as I don't often anticipate the move myself, I'll make it a point to not point out the odd synergy that some cards in my deck have the next time I ask for help. Considering this style of B/UB is 60-70% of the decks on MTGO this is quite "un-fun" and before you decide to try and complain some more about my "Combo deck" this was an issue two years ago when I first bought MTGO and bought a landfall pauper deck. I could not beat the deck with an aggro based deck that benefits from land triggers and in fact is the reason I stopped playing MTGO the first time.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Is there any ways to beat these decks for mon-red? Or to counter the dang creature abilities that give them card advantage? Thanks
To answer simply: play more direct damage spells. MBC and to a large extent UB control decks will have a hard time dealing with burn, as it's harder to interact with. If you deal a large amount of the damage with your creatures, you can eventually finish the game with burn. It can also take out their creatures for you to get in with your own, or trade up in combat.
Alternatively, but along the same vein, you can have your own inevitability engine that is difficult to disrupt. Death Spark is a hallmark burn spell for goblin decks, and you can easily see why.
Control also will struggle versus an explosive start. Many of your creatures sport poor stats compared to their mana cost, making it easy for control decks to stabilize. Stay low on the curve and pump out your threats to deal as much damage as possible, as soon as possible.
Last thing: You could benefit from creatures that are resistant to removal. A very popular red card for non-Burn decks is Mogg War Marshal, and it's not hard to see why. You get so much value out of him.
Every Pauper deck needs to have a plan for card advantage, or else be so fast that it doesn't matter.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Those decks are, in fact, not degenerative. You are playing a combo deck, which is what they are traditionally good at beating.
You are quite literally rock saying scissors are fine, please nerf paper.
That being said, a specific list would make it much easier to help you out. What exactly are you playing?
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
22 Mountain
2 Teetering Peeks
Creatures:
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Skirk Prospector
4 heartlash cinder
3 Skinbrand goblin
2 Goblin Matron
2 Mudbutton torchrunner
2 Spikeshot goblin
4 titan's strength
3 Falter
4 Fling
1 Font of Ire
4 Traitorous blood
2 Fireblast
Like I mentioned this is just all free stuff. I was playing it to get to used to MTGO. Basically I run out chip damage with small goblins, then with a skirk prospector out I traitous blood your biggest creature and attack for all then fling it in your face. The other option is litter the board, heartlash cinder, falter, attack, fling. Font of Ire, spikeshot goblin, and skinbrand goblin are all kind of filler spots. I would be open to another color if it could help me get some card advantage going.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Turns out the word degenerate is used to describe combo decks, not control decks. To drive the point home, it would more likely describe your deck than the decks you're having trouble with. The word is thrown about pretty wildly in general, but generally describes decks that don't play "real" Magic. A Legacy/Vintage dredge deck would be the epitome of a "not real Magic" deck.
More discussion along these lines: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3a73w7/what_makes_a_combo_degenerate/
Ok, let's actually address your concern.
If you're counting on a combo finish, you might consider other decks that do similar things, try them (proxy/paper/cockatrice/etc.) to see how they work and why they are better against different archetypes. Decks like Affinity have more speed, and while they have a Atog/Fling finish, their creatures are MUCH more capable of doing the job themselves.
Even further along the combo spectrum is something like Bogles or Infect, which sometimes uses cards like Gitaxian Probe and Apostle's Blessing to ensure the coast is clear and protect combo pieces.
You said this was a budget deck so I imagine your resources might be constrained, but borrowing/trying/proxying other similar decks (attack-based combo) is still possible, and would help illustrate how other decks handle opposing strategies like control.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Definition of degenerative: characterized by progressive, often irreversible deterioration
The game starts with three or four slow turns on their end of playing dork lands to gain life and playing removal on anything that hits the board. Then they play counters and creatures with discard effects to lock you out of the board and then follow up with fat creatures like gurmag angler along with flashback removal to wreck you on card advantage.
Turns out you really have no clue what you are talking about. My deck is not a combo deck, it is an alternative more aggro based burn deck. Sometimes a combo finish works but is not how I usually win. I mentioned it because I find it fun to fling big creatures out of nowhere as I don't often anticipate the move myself, I'll make it a point to not point out the odd synergy that some cards in my deck have the next time I ask for help. Considering this style of B/UB is 60-70% of the decks on MTGO this is quite "un-fun" and before you decide to try and complain some more about my "Combo deck" this was an issue two years ago when I first bought MTGO and bought a landfall pauper deck. I could not beat the deck with an aggro based deck that benefits from land triggers and in fact is the reason I stopped playing MTGO the first time.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Definition of degenerative: characterized by progressive, often irreversible deterioration
Here are some more definitions that fit the description of the style of play of pauper control.
The game starts with three or four slow turns on their end of playing dork lands to gain life and playing removal on anything that hits the board. Then they play counters and creatures with discard effects to lock you out of the board and then follow up with fat creatures like gurmag angler along with flashback removal to wreck you on card advantage.
Turns out you really have no clue what you are talking about. My deck is not a combo deck, it is an alternative more aggro based burn deck. Sometimes a combo finish works but is not how I usually win. I mentioned it because I find it fun to fling big creatures out of nowhere as I don't often anticipate the move myself, I'll make it a point to not point out the odd synergy that some cards in my deck have the next time I ask for help. Considering this style of B/UB is 60-70% of the decks on MTGO this is quite "un-fun" and before you decide to try and complain some more about my "Combo deck" this was an issue two years ago when I first bought MTGO and bought a landfall pauper deck. I could not beat the deck with an aggro based deck that benefits from land triggers and in fact is the reason I stopped playing MTGO the first time.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
To answer simply: play more direct damage spells. MBC and to a large extent UB control decks will have a hard time dealing with burn, as it's harder to interact with. If you deal a large amount of the damage with your creatures, you can eventually finish the game with burn. It can also take out their creatures for you to get in with your own, or trade up in combat.
Alternatively, but along the same vein, you can have your own inevitability engine that is difficult to disrupt. Death Spark is a hallmark burn spell for goblin decks, and you can easily see why.
Control also will struggle versus an explosive start. Many of your creatures sport poor stats compared to their mana cost, making it easy for control decks to stabilize. Stay low on the curve and pump out your threats to deal as much damage as possible, as soon as possible.
Last thing: You could benefit from creatures that are resistant to removal. A very popular red card for non-Burn decks is Mogg War Marshal, and it's not hard to see why. You get so much value out of him.
Every Pauper deck needs to have a plan for card advantage, or else be so fast that it doesn't matter.
I hope this helps.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
There have been very few things in pauper that were actually degenerate--i.e. Storm decks, Peregrine Drake combos, etc.
Also, craft a SB.