I am not sure if Daze is very good in this deck. You are not so fast and after a couple of turns it seems to be a dead card.
Mono-blue Delver decks sometimes play Force Spike which seems like a worse card than Daze. You want to be able to play spells, such as a turn 1-2 creature while knowing you can counter their Chainer's Edict or perhaps a Gurmag Angler. Winning counter wars with Daze feels awesome.
As far as adding red, I didn't think of the bonus of playing Red Blasts against other delver decks. Also, is Land Grant basically a better fetch "land" than our other fetches, besides the fact that it can only grab a forest. Perhaps we could run some number of RG tapped lands to fix both colors with only one land. Our fetches come into play tapped anyway
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I am not sure if Daze is very good in this deck. You are not so fast and after a couple of turns it seems to be a dead card.
Mono-blue Delver decks sometimes play Force Spike which seems like a worse card than Daze. You want to be able to play spells, such as a turn 1-2 creature while knowing you can counter their Chainer's Edict or perhaps a Gurmag Angler. Winning counter wars with Daze feels awesome.
As far as adding red, I didn't think of the bonus of playing Red Blasts against other delver decks. Also, is Land Grant basically a better fetch "land" than our other fetches, besides the fact that it can only grab a forest. Perhaps we could run some number of RG tapped lands to fix both colors with only one land. Our fetches come into play tapped anyway
How would we be able to fit Gush if we did that?
Hum, Gush is a good card to think about. I suppose a question to ask is how many non-island real lands should we run? I was thinking one forest and one mountain, but what if we added 1-2 Rugged Highlands to make color fixing a bit faster?
I am not sure if Daze is very good in this deck. You are not so fast and after a couple of turns it seems to be a dead card.
Mono-blue Delver decks sometimes play Force Spike which seems like a worse card than Daze. You want to be able to play spells, such as a turn 1-2 creature while knowing you can counter their Chainer's Edict or perhaps a Gurmag Angler. Winning counter wars with Daze feels awesome.
As far as adding red, I didn't think of the bonus of playing Red Blasts against other delver decks. Also, is Land Grant basically a better fetch "land" than our other fetches, besides the fact that it can only grab a forest. Perhaps we could run some number of RG tapped lands to fix both colors with only one land. Our fetches come into play tapped anyway
How would we be able to fit Gush if we did that?
Hum, Gush is a good card to think about. I suppose a question to ask is how many non-island real lands should we run? I was thinking one forest and one mountain, but what if we added 1-2 Rugged Highlands to make color fixing a bit faster?
Cutting forests screws over Land Grant.
Having a very hard time managing the red splash in the above lists along side both Gush, Daze and attempting to play the tempo game.
I haven't had any problems with Red since I already run fetches and 8 cantrips.
That said I prefer Fetches to Duals because they increase the Thresh count, are able to get Islands for Gush and Daze, and provide shuffle outlets for Ponder and Brainstorm.
How are you shuffling your cards for Brainstorm and achieving Threshold with no fetches?
I haven't had any problems with Red since I already run fetches and 8 cantrips.
That said I prefer Fetches to Duals because they increase the Thresh count, are able to get Islands for Gush and Daze, and provide shuffle outlets for Ponder and Brainstorm.
How are you shuffling your cards for Brainstorm and achieving Threshold with no fetches?
He can shuffle with Land Grant, but I agree that that's probably not enough.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
So how do people feel about Thought Scour and/or Mental Note? Was goldfishing a few times last night and they did seem a bit superfluous: most of the time I felt like I'd rather have a Ponder or Preordain or any other cantrip. Thoughts?
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EDH/Commander
(W/U)(W/U)Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
(W/B)(W/B)Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
(R/G)(R/G)Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
(B/G)(G/U)Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe Build
(W/U)(U/B)Aminatou, the Fateshifter: And a Child Shall Lead Them (superfriends)
They do make for a turbo way of filling your graveyard. I feel that if we want to play tempo with our big green beaters, we do need to be able to get threshold at the latest by turns 3-4. Without it I feel like 1/1s are not playable in pauper. Testing will be needed.
Edit: Crap, if we do run some number of Thought Scour, perhaps 2-3, what should our cantrip suite be? I hate cutting Brainstorm, Ponder, or Preordain, and Gitaxian Probe seems good in this deck, but we can't be all air. Perhaps 12-14 is the max number to run?
I haven't had any problems with Red since I already run fetches and 8 cantrips.
That said I prefer Fetches to Duals because they increase the Thresh count, are able to get Islands for Gush and Daze, and provide shuffle outlets for Ponder and Brainstorm.
How are you shuffling your cards for Brainstorm and achieving Threshold with no fetches?
He can shuffle with Land Grant, but I agree that that's probably not enough.
Ponder can do the trick as well if you're trying to get yourself out of a lock.. Not ideal but I've has far less problems with 0 Fetches. I can actually keep up with the other Delver decks in the format now.
I like the idea of a red splash, but it feels so awkward sometimes. I also play mental note and milled my single mountain once. That taste was very sour indeed.
I like pestermite to tap down potential blockers and it adds some extra clock. It can also tap down opponent's lands to make Daze more potent. Memory Lapse is often a time walk. It get's even beter with thought scour. I might want a serene heart or two in my SB. Might cut 1 dispel and 1 negate for it.
Land grant cuts lands, fixes mana without runny cluncky ETBT lands, shuffles and help flips delver more consitantly. I often reveal my hand only once early game i with it,and it's well worth the tradeoff.
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Thanks to SpiderBoy4 @ High-Light Studio's for the awesome banner
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Well, finally hit upon a list that I'm willing to test (planning on setting up a paper league at school). Any suggestions for an all-purpose sideboard going into an unknown meta?
Well, finally hit upon a list that I'm willing to test (planning on setting up a paper league at school). Any suggestions for an all-purpose sideboard going into an unknown meta?
Feed the clan for burn? I'm not sure if it's needed, hydro blast instead?
Graveyard hate to some degree.
Something for token/ elves/ etc.
That's all I can think of off the top. I'm not the most experienced with this deck myself, but that's what I'd consider in an open field. Affinity and blue decks seems like a good place to start. I suppose there is the possibility that you'll face a ton of beat down decks, so that could be a thing as well I suppose.
Even if your opponent knows you have daze or potentially have one, they'll play around it. This is fine. Now you have an emblem that reads;'' spells your opponent casts cost 1 more to cast''. You can even board out dazes and your opponent will try to work around it.
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Thanks to SpiderBoy4 @ High-Light Studio's for the awesome banner
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Continuing to work on this list after crushing it non-stop on Xmage and testing with my friends. I'm admittedly fairly new to pauper and not sure what an ideal board should look like but this has functioned for right now (boarding with this deck is tough). Aether Burst has been an all star at dealing with creature heavy decks but everything else is sort of just in the air right now. Any suggestions would be great, thanks!
Scour over Note so you can interact with enemy scry. I also think you have way too many Forests. We only play two so we can have one in play and be able to cycle the other with Brainstorm and Land Grant, but I can see three clogging quite a bit, especially with just 13 lands.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Scour over Note so you can interact with enemy scry. I also think you have way too many Forests. We only play two so we can have one in play and be able to cycle the other with Brainstorm and Land Grant, but I can see three clogging quite a bit, especially with just 13 lands.
Makes sense on Scour vs. Note. 2 Forest makes sense and opens a slot for Fetch #5.
Scour over Note so you can interact with enemy scry. I also think you have way too many Forests. We only play two so we can have one in play and be able to cycle the other with Brainstorm and Land Grant, but I can see three clogging quite a bit, especially with just 13 lands.
Makes sense on Scour vs. Note. 2 Forest makes sense and opens a slot for Fetch #5.
The interaction thought scour has with memory lapse also seems very relevant as well if there is a threat you can't deal with.
Don't you feel a little bit land light? I run 17, and while it's true I often end up with 3-4 lands on the battlefield, I appreciate the ability to churn out 2-3 spells a turn instead of being choked on mana when I only have 1-2 lands.
What do we think about the different counterspell options?
I'm playing Pierce because I fear the Chainer's Edicts, Flame Slashes and Journey to Nowheres lurking around, so Pierce can counter them on curve. But Dispel is usually better overall, being live through the game and being able to win counter wars out of nowhere.
I'm also running Leak instead of Lapse because it's ability to permanently deal with a spell, but then again Lapse works at every stage of the game and is such a brutal tempo swing.
I've cut Mandrills for two more counterspells, as I was rarely happy to see them at all, and even when I could consistently cast them without losing Thresh they just get countered, burned, bounced... you name it. At least with Werebear I don't lose graveyard fuel. Here's my most recent list:
6 seems a pretty good number for fetches, so are 3 Land Grant with only 2 Forests now. I haven't tried with 7 fetches but 8 definitely slowed me down a lot. Now that I'm already running 8 Island, and that it's the color that I want the most in order to cast Gush, Daze, and my plethora of Blue spells, is Counterspell feasible?
Also I'm thinking about cutting a Spell Pierce for a Mountain or a Forest. I'm also thinking about accommodating two Twin Bolt, but I think I might be pushing the Red splash with 9 cards here.
Don't you feel a little bit land light? I run 17, and while it's true I often end up with 3-4 lands on the battlefield, I appreciate the ability to churn out 2-3 spells a turn instead of being choked on mana when I only have 1-2 lands.
What do we think about the different counterspell options?
I'm playing Pierce because I fear the Chainer's Edicts, Flame Slashes and Journey to Nowheres lurking around, so Pierce can counter them on curve. But Dispel is usually better overall, being live through the game and being able to win counter wars out of nowhere.
I'm also running Leak instead of Lapse because it's ability to permanently deal with a spell, but then again Lapse works at every stage of the game and is such a brutal tempo swing.
I've cut Mandrills for two more counterspells, as I was rarely happy to see them at all, and even when I could consistently cast them without losing Thresh they just get countered, burned, bounced... you name it. At least with Werebear I don't lose graveyard fuel. Here's my most recent list:
6 seems a pretty good number for fetches, so are 3 Land Grant with only 2 Forests now. I haven't tried with 7 fetches but 8 definitely slowed me down a lot. Now that I'm already running 8 Island, and that it's the color that I want the most in order to cast Gush, Daze, and my plethora of Blue spells, is Counterspell feasible?
Also I'm thinking about cutting a Spell Pierce for a Mountain or a Forest. I'm also thinking about accommodating two Twin Bolt, but I think I might be pushing the Red splash with 9 cards here.
dang, didn't know Tarmogoyf was pauper legal :P. I assume that's a werebear based on your previous posts. I like Counterspell in the deck, but I have no idea how the mana is for it in the RUG version. What changes would you make for it?
What about moldgraf scavenger when running fetchs and maybe thought scour?
In games i wont reach treshould soon, my creatures is just 1/1 and its hard to deal with creatures. Sometimes i trade a werebear to a goblins just to dont reach the read zone.
Moldgraf can be a turn 2 good blocker against mbc, mono white, goblins, monogreen...
What about moldgraf scavenger when running fetchs and maybe thought scour?
In games i wont reach treshould soon, my creatures is just 1/1 and its hard to deal with creatures. Sometimes i trade a werebear to a goblins just to dont reach the read zone.
Moldgraf can be a turn 2 good blocker against mbc, mono white, goblins, monogreen...
Scavenger would require contorting the deck construction in order to fit 4 types of cards to consistently throw in the yard in order to achieve delirium. Furthermore it dies to 4/4's and to everything else that already kills Werebear and Mandrills. The Gobs player will probably keep attacking and going wide and you're only going to be able to block 1 creature, which will be followed with a Lightning Bolt and get rid of Scavenger for good most of the time.
I've cut one land from 17 to 16. What would be a non-Daze, non-Gush card to fill in the spot? I've also been considering cutting Land Grant entirely and running 18 cards and see how consistently could I shuffle, flip Delver and reach Thresh without them. I'll probably test a no Land Grant, 18 lands build tomorrow.
What about moldgraf scavenger when running fetchs and maybe thought scour?
In games i wont reach treshould soon, my creatures is just 1/1 and its hard to deal with creatures. Sometimes i trade a werebear to a goblins just to dont reach the read zone.
Moldgraf can be a turn 2 good blocker against mbc, mono white, goblins, monogreen...
What about moldgraf scavenger when running fetchs and maybe thought scour?
In games i wont reach treshould soon, my creatures is just 1/1 and its hard to deal with creatures. Sometimes i trade a werebear to a goblins just to dont reach the read zone.
Moldgraf can be a turn 2 good blocker against mbc, mono white, goblins, monogreen...
What about moldgraf scavenger when running fetchs and maybe thought scour?
In games i wont reach treshould soon, my creatures is just 1/1 and its hard to deal with creatures. Sometimes i trade a werebear to a goblins just to dont reach the read zone.
Moldgraf can be a turn 2 good blocker against mbc, mono white, goblins, monogreen...
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Hum, Gush is a good card to think about. I suppose a question to ask is how many non-island real lands should we run? I was thinking one forest and one mountain, but what if we added 1-2 Rugged Highlands to make color fixing a bit faster?
Cutting forests screws over Land Grant.
Having a very hard time managing the red splash in the above lists along side both Gush, Daze and attempting to play the tempo game.
Here's the main I'm testing tonight:
4x Brainstorm
4x Counterspell
3x Daze
3x Gush
3x Mana Leak
4x Snap
2x Vapor Snag
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Jeskai Sage
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Werebear
Sorcery (8)
4x Land Grant
4x Ponder
3x Forest
10x Island
That said I prefer Fetches to Duals because they increase the Thresh count, are able to get Islands for Gush and Daze, and provide shuffle outlets for Ponder and Brainstorm.
How are you shuffling your cards for Brainstorm and achieving Threshold with no fetches?
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Edit: Crap, if we do run some number of Thought Scour, perhaps 2-3, what should our cantrip suite be? I hate cutting Brainstorm, Ponder, or Preordain, and Gitaxian Probe seems good in this deck, but we can't be all air. Perhaps 12-14 is the max number to run?
Ponder can do the trick as well if you're trying to get yourself out of a lock.. Not ideal but I've has far less problems with 0 Fetches. I can actually keep up with the other Delver decks in the format now.
My current list.
4 nimble mongoose
4 werebear
4 delver of secrets
2 pestermite
sorceries 9
1 temporal spring
4 land grant
4 ponder
instants 24
4 brainstorm
3 gush
3 thought scour
4 daze
3 memory lapse
3 spell pierce
4 vapor snag
2 forest
6 island
4 evolving wilds
1 terramorphic expanse
2 Hidden spider
3 gut shot
2 sandstorm
3 negate
3 dispel
2 moment's peace
I like pestermite to tap down potential blockers and it adds some extra clock. It can also tap down opponent's lands to make Daze more potent. Memory Lapse is often a time walk. It get's even beter with thought scour. I might want a serene heart or two in my SB. Might cut 1 dispel and 1 negate for it.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
2 Hooting Mandrills
Instants (25)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Vapor Snag
3 Gush
3 Memory Lapse
3 Mental Note
3 Spell Pierce
1 Pulse of Murasa
4 Land Grant
4 Ponder
Lands (13)
6 Island
3 Forest
4 Evolving Wilds
Just some suggestions:
Dispel for blue decks
Some type of hate for affinity,
Feed the clan for burn? I'm not sure if it's needed, hydro blast instead?
Graveyard hate to some degree.
Something for token/ elves/ etc.
That's all I can think of off the top. I'm not the most experienced with this deck myself, but that's what I'd consider in an open field. Affinity and blue decks seems like a good place to start. I suppose there is the possibility that you'll face a ton of beat down decks, so that could be a thing as well I suppose.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Continuing to work on this list after crushing it non-stop on Xmage and testing with my friends. I'm admittedly fairly new to pauper and not sure what an ideal board should look like but this has functioned for right now (boarding with this deck is tough). Aether Burst has been an all star at dealing with creature heavy decks but everything else is sort of just in the air right now. Any suggestions would be great, thanks!
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Gush
4x Memory Lapse
4x Mental Note
3x Spell Pierce
4x Vapor Snag
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Werebear
Land (13)
4x Evolving Wilds
3x Forest
6x Island
Sorcery (8)
4x Land Grant
4x Ponder
4x AEther Burst
2x Annul
1x Dispel
1x Gut Shot
2x Hydroblast
2x Natural State
1x Pulse of Murasa
2x Tangle
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Makes sense on Scour vs. Note. 2 Forest makes sense and opens a slot for Fetch #5.
The interaction thought scour has with memory lapse also seems very relevant as well if there is a threat you can't deal with.
What do we think about the different counterspell options?
1 CMC: Spell Pierce vs Dispel
2 CMC: Mana Leak vs Memory Lapse
I'm playing Pierce because I fear the Chainer's Edicts, Flame Slashes and Journey to Nowheres lurking around, so Pierce can counter them on curve. But Dispel is usually better overall, being live through the game and being able to win counter wars out of nowhere.
I'm also running Leak instead of Lapse because it's ability to permanently deal with a spell, but then again Lapse works at every stage of the game and is such a brutal tempo swing.
I've cut Mandrills for two more counterspells, as I was rarely happy to see them at all, and even when I could consistently cast them without losing Thresh they just get countered, burned, bounced... you name it. At least with Werebear I don't lose graveyard fuel. Here's my most recent list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (21)
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
3 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
3 Gush
4 Ponder
3 Land Grant
3 Flame Slash
Land (17)
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
8 Island
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Pyroblast
4 Spreading Seas
3 Dispel
2 Electrickery
2 Ancient Grudge
6 seems a pretty good number for fetches, so are 3 Land Grant with only 2 Forests now. I haven't tried with 7 fetches but 8 definitely slowed me down a lot. Now that I'm already running 8 Island, and that it's the color that I want the most in order to cast Gush, Daze, and my plethora of Blue spells, is Counterspell feasible?
Also I'm thinking about cutting a Spell Pierce for a Mountain or a Forest. I'm also thinking about accommodating two Twin Bolt, but I think I might be pushing the Red splash with 9 cards here.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
dang, didn't know Tarmogoyf was pauper legal :P. I assume that's a werebear based on your previous posts. I like Counterspell in the deck, but I have no idea how the mana is for it in the RUG version. What changes would you make for it?
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
In games i wont reach treshould soon, my creatures is just 1/1 and its hard to deal with creatures. Sometimes i trade a werebear to a goblins just to dont reach the read zone.
Moldgraf can be a turn 2 good blocker against mbc, mono white, goblins, monogreen...
Scavenger would require contorting the deck construction in order to fit 4 types of cards to consistently throw in the yard in order to achieve delirium. Furthermore it dies to 4/4's and to everything else that already kills Werebear and Mandrills. The Gobs player will probably keep attacking and going wide and you're only going to be able to block 1 creature, which will be followed with a Lightning Bolt and get rid of Scavenger for good most of the time.
If you're having problem with swarms I would suggest Gut Shot / Dual Shot / Twin Bolt.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
Instant (21)
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
3 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
3 Gush
4 Ponder
3 Land Grant
3 Flame Slash
Land (16)
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Island
2 Forest
1 Mountain
I've cut one land from 17 to 16. What would be a non-Daze, non-Gush card to fill in the spot? I've also been considering cutting Land Grant entirely and running 18 cards and see how consistently could I shuffle, flip Delver and reach Thresh without them. I'll probably test a no Land Grant, 18 lands build tomorrow.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
is electrickery not a better option than those cards?
In the sideboard yes. I meant if you wanna run maindeckable hate.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Ah, gotcha. In my humble opinion though, none of those seem main board worthy unless it's a big meta game choice.