I've been playing a tribal Zombies list for a few weeks now and I love it. It's not highly competitive right now because of Treasure Cruise since most decks are now packing Relic of Progenitus (even saw it maindeck), but against any other tribal pauper deck and against mono-blue control, it's really good. They sit on their counterspells while you go for card advantage by cycling Viscera Dragger and unearth it for a free Lightning Bolt that they can't counter... it's just awesome.
A lot of card advantage without actually having any real drawing spells. Just cycle Draggers and Polluters, get them back with Ghoulcaller's Chant or Ghoulraiser, and play again. Polluter is also a good finisher and can win against fog decks (and it can't be countered). Gray Merchant is a zombie (thanks Wizards!), I have 12 Unearth dudes against counterspells or milling strategies (and it's good with Carrion Feeder). Rotting Rats has some advantages over Ravenous Rats too, it's a Zombie but Unearth also makes a huge difference when your opponent has 2 cards you want to get rid of or against countermagic (just Unearth it, get rid of the counterspell they can't cast on the Unearth ability, then play your shiny Gray Merchant for the win).
Nameless Inversion is a zombie card. Sideboard is pretty straight forward, I don't play Oubliette because Geth's Verdict is the only out against aura hexproof, Nausea is the only spell against white tokens/weenies (some versions play Guardian of the Guildpact and Obsidian Acolyte that are resiliant against Crypt Rats). Speaking of the Rats, it's too much better than Gangrenous Zombie (although I really love the tribal theme), it's a finisher, good against mass creature decks too. Stinkweed Imp is always a problem for MUC (Spire Golem anyone?) and finally, Sylvok Lifestaff is pretty much game over for Burn if you draw it.
I still have some bad matchups, any deck playing Relic of Progenitus maindeck is a really bad matchup. I can win, but it's really hard. Tron is not an easy matchup either, Zombies can be pretty agressive but if they have time to land a Fangren Marauder, things get quickly worse. Against Affinity, I need Festering Goblin to make Nameless Inversion really effective, if I can start some recursion engine with those 2, I'm usually winning. Crypt Rats paired with Sylvok Lifestaff and obviously Stinkweed Imp help post-sideboard.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
A lot of the "better" Zombie decks I've seen splash Green for Putrid Leech and/or Strength of Night. An instant-speed Overrun for 1 less mana is really good.
If going mono-black, people played snow-swamps for Gangrenous Zombies. Recurring it constantly was a lot to handle for other creature decks.
A lot of the "better" Zombie decks I've seen splash Green for Putrid Leech and/or Strength of Night. An instant-speed Overrun for 1 less mana is really good.
If going mono-black, people played snow-swamps for Gangrenous Zombies. Recurring it constantly was a lot to handle for other creature decks.
4 mana for Strength of Night is a little bit too much. The way I've been playing this deck so far, I'm winning because my opponents are sitting on Counterspells and can't do anything against Cycling and Unearth. As soon as I play as spell, they counter it, because there isn't many spells to counter in the deck anyway (I mean, yeah Ghoulraiser can be countered, but usually if you also play the game of draw-go, they end up trying to play creature and not keeping enough mana to counter 2 spells in a turn).
I don't think splashing green only for Putried Leech is worth it.
Gangrenous Zombies is always a consideration, but the fact that Crypt Rats is so much superior and better makes it hard to run the zombie version. 1 damage to everything is good, 2 damage can be good too, but 4, 5 or 6 damage is even better against Tron, Affinity and Spire Golem. Also, Crypt Rats can be activated the turn it comes into play and it saved me so many games that I'm not even counting anymore (especially against Aura Hexproof). Ghoulcaller's Chant can still target any creature when needed, so the only real interaction you lose is Ghoulraiser, which is pretty much random anyway.
If you play paper pauper though and are interested in playing some games, feel free to PM me since I don't know a lot of people in Quebec City playing the format.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Strength of Night is an extremely powerful spell that is usually a "counter me or lose" kinda of card. Not including cards under the premise that they'll get countered is not a good way to think of these things.
Putrid Leech is one of the better zombies available. As a stand-alone, he's the best in terms of power level. With a few good Green spells and sideboard cards, a Green splash is definitely worth it.
What do you think of Gurmag Angler? What I like about Delve here is that it can make Ghoulraiser a lot less random by exiling zombies you don't want to see again necessarily.
I'm definitely interested! Je viens de Sherbrooke, mais j'ai souvent à faire à Québec. I'll let you know if ever I'm around, and if ever you're in my area, feel free to message me!
Well, what would you remove to go green? I don't want to remove anything in the list. I'm not saying BG is bad, I'm just saying it's a different deck, I actually like the 12 Unearth dudes, the 8 reanimation spells, the 4 Nameless Inversion and I feel like Carrion Feeder is really important in the unearth strategy.
That leaves me to Festering Goblin, Gray Merchant and maybe the Gempalm Polluter but that's only 6 cards and the Polluter adds a lot to the consistency (cycling) and with Merchant, it's a great wincon against turbofog.
Just PM me if you are in Quebec!
About the delve Zombie, I considered it, it's definitely playable but again, doesn't fit the Feeder/unearth strategy really much, all the zombies get reanimated, so I need to delve lands and Chants, not something I put a lot in the graveyard.
Maybe more in a BG build, but if you go BG, I think Tortured Existence is just much superior, except for the current GY hate being run because of TC.
Edit: I'm going to think a little bit more about delve since yeah, in some situations, filtering for Ghoulraiser could really help. Maybe as a 2-of, I will play test it on MTGO
I'll stick with Mono Black.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Cool deck premise, let us know how it fares online
Bad haha. Actually 50% of the decks are playing Treasure Cruise, half of the other half are playing Relic of Progenitus, which is, let's face it, really bad for this deck. The last 25% just doesn't care about TC for whatever reason, since we are mono-black we can deal with creatures just fine usually (especially post-sideboard).
I'm still able to beat mono-U Delver by playing wisely: play around Mana Leak and Miscalculation the first turn by cycling/unearthing creatures, then later in the game start to play relevant spells to get their hard Counterspells (some play Deprive too but it's less played than before). Also, we can play around Spellstutter Sprite just fine.
So if you are lucky, you will play against Treasure Cruise and Zombies can fight that, when you start chaining your Ghoulcaller's Chant into Ghoulraisers, you are getting a ton of card advantage too.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The question is: do I want to play 1 or 2? What do I remove? I think I can remove 1 Rotting Rats and/or 1 Dregscape Zombie, but playing 2 Gurmag Angler seems a lot, although late game I can just hardcast him. It's bigger enemy is probably Geth's Verdict and similar cards, but this deck is pretty resilient to sac effects late game... thanks to Butcher Ghoul and all the unearth creatures. Journey to Nowhere could be the real problem but I have Carrion Feeder against it. So yeah, a really good card, definitely must play at least 1.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I never want to have 2 Gurmag Angler in my opening hand, that would be worse than a mulligan. If I have 2 Gray Merchant, I have a game plan. If I habe 2 Gurmag Anglers, I don't really have a game plan, I can't even say that I will be able to play one by turn 5, and at least Gray Merchant can help me recover from early life loss.
Also, counterspells are a problem.
With that said, I will only play 1. Now, I have to remove 1 card, and I really considered every card in the deck. I think Rotting Rats is slightly better than Dregscape Zombie besides being 2+2 mana instead of 2+1 and despite the lesser power (1/1 instead of 2/1). To be able to fight control deck more, I really need those 4 Rats. I also really need 4 Feeders and I don't think 2 Goblins is too much either. I definitely don't want to touch Gary or Butcher Ghoul, and Ghoulraisers/Ghoucaller's Chant/Nameless Inversion are the heart of this deck.
That really doesn't leave me with many options, so I finally decide to cut 1 Dregscape Zombie. It's usually the first card I cut when I sideboard, with Butcher Ghoul depending on the matchup. So here we go. I think having 1 Gurmag Angler is an improvement over playing 4 Dregscape.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Just want to say that I looked at Wandering Tombshell but I definitely prefer Gurmag Angler.
Also, I swapped Nausea for Shrivel because I decided to foil the paper version of this deck. Only problem is Crypt Rats right now, because 1 foil is worth the rest of the deck, but I guess it's worth it, I love that 7th ed art anyway.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
That Zombie Turtle is just totally unplayable. It seems Black needs to have at least one overcosted creature with large toughness in every set now (rotting Mastodon... )
Have you tried Sultai Emissary? Seem that card could be pretty good, as it manifestrips itself.
That Zombie Turtle is just totally unplayable. It seems Black needs to have at least one overcosted creautre large toughness in every set now (rotting Mastodon... )
Have you tried Sultai Emissary? Seem that card could be pretty good, as it manifestrips itself.
I didn't try it, it is definitely interesting but I probably don't want to manifest Viscera Dragger or Gempalm Polluter. Ghoulraiser would be even worse. So that leaves me with not a lot of cards I want to manifest, maybe 12, and I think this is a problem, because I really can't afford to lose a Gray Merchant or a Ghoulraiser without any value.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
come to think of it, yeah, it's actually not that great. You have a lot of ETB abilities, alternate costs, and it would stop you from delving with Angler.
I'd probably make room for a second Angler in there somewhere. That interaction with Ghoulraiser seem really good.
come to think of it, yeah, it's actually not that great. You have a lot of ETB abilities, alternate costs, and it would stop you from delving with Angler.
I'd probably make room for a second Angler in there somewhere. That interaction with Ghoulraiser seem really good.
Lifestaff is only needed in some specific match ups, I really think this is a sideboard card.
Bonesplitter could be good for sure. I don't have any specific reason to not include it, it would probably help to trade against Affinity too, it's just that I don't want to cut any zombie and it's not really a sideboard card, if you go for it I think it has to be maindeck.
Could definitely play 2 Anglers but I tend to draw a lot of cards with my cycler since I'm getting them back to my hand and cycle them again a couple of times, and I don't think I want to have 2 Anglers in my opening hand in any situation, so that's why I only play 1 right now. The fact that I can recur it anyway kind of makes up for that, there are games where I will never draw it but I prefer that to risk having 2 early game and not being able to play anything.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Fume Splitters? I'm not playing daily events anyway, my pauper decks are just for fun with friends, I prefer to stick with the zombie theme.
Didn't notice that Shambling Goblin says "opponent", that's why I didn't even mention it. Now, it looks strictly better. I'm sad though because the art was awesome on Festering Goblin with the old frame. No reason to keep it over that new one. I recall a couple of times where I couldn't play Festering Goblin because I would get 2-for-1.
I edited OP, thanks for that, but is rather not play Fume Splitter, I like having it all tribal in the maindeck at least and I honestly don't have that many situations where I would need Fume Splitter anyway. With a Carrion Feeder, the 2 Zombie Goblins are better.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
But yeah, I had similar results with the old Festering Goblin; someone destroying it at the wrong time and forcing me to target my own creatures. I actually really like the art on the new one, with the yellow eyes. It's different. I prefer the old card frame as well.
Looking over your deck, I feel like Viscera Dragger would be the easiest to cut for Bonesplitters. Butcher Ghoul and the Goblin are also pretty average. You might also consider Gempalm Polluter, as he can just be a bad cantrip in many scenarios. I wouldn't play a card that said "target opponent loses 2 life, draw a card" for example. Obviously it can't be countered and gets better with more creatures, but it can be hard to get good mileage out of that spell. A bit situational, I think.
Also, is Crypt Rats really good in the sideboard? I don't recall the last time I side it in while playing on MTGO, Shrivel usually gets the job done with Nameless and Geth's Verdict.
It's 30$ a piece for the foil 7th in paper.
Also, I'm now running 20 Swamps with 1 Bojuka Bog and 1 Barren Moor now, since I decided to foil the deck, I got 20 old frame Swamp foils with 20 different images (Invasion, Onslaught, 7th, Mercadian Masque and Odyssey). Didn't want to get promos so yeah... most mono black list I saw do run Bog and Barren Moor anyway. Just remember that this deck cycles through a lot of cards, playing 1-of isn't that bad and Barren Moor is actually good with Gurmag Angler too.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Yes, Gempalm Polluter isnt always good but the cyclers are what make this deck reliable. It's how I get card advantage, whether it's to play Angler or just cycle again with Ghoucaller's Chant. I really don't want to cut my 6 cycling cards, but that's just me. Don't forget that Viscera Dragger can't be countered, it's my best win against mono-U Control: unearth for the win, they sit on Miscalculation, Deprive and Counterspell but I just don't play spells.
Gempalm Polluter has the advantage of mixing things up in the turbo fog matchup. They play 20 Fogs and try to mill you out, so you just wait to have 10-12 mana, unearth everything and Gempalm for the win. It's also a reliable cycler, recurrable... reliable... I think it's well worth it over Bonesplitter. If I need a 4 power creature besides Angler... Gempalm Polluter and Viscera Dragger+Lifestaff (especially against affinity) work too
Butcher Ghoul is far better than "average", with Carrion Feeder it's good, with Lifestaff post-SB it's too much for any burn deck, against Edicts you are just laughing... I like it and that's why I removed a Dregscape Zombie before a Butcher Ghoul. I could play only 3 though, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Same for Rotting Rats. That's 2 cards for 2 Bonesplitters if you want to.
Personally I think I prefer not running Bonesplitter, against affinity we now have Angler (they have nothing against this, especially when you recur it a couple of times) so the only reason to play Bonesplitter would be for the aggro plan. But the reality is that I don't always have a turn 1 play and turn 2 is usually a cycler, so I wouldn't call the deck aggro just for the occasional turn 1 Feeder and turn 2 Butcher. I have removal, might add a couple more in the sideboard if I decide to remove Crypt Rats (something like Snuff Out maybe). I prefer playing 4 Rats and 4 Butchers to add consistency to the deck instead.
But yeah, I had similar results with the old Festering Goblin; someone destroying it at the wrong time and forcing me to target my own creatures. I actually really like the art on the new one, with the yellow eyes. It's different. I prefer the old card frame as well.
I must be tired... Bonesplitter, Fume Spitter... or it might be dyslexia. Anyway. I like the yellow eyes too, there is nothing to be shy about a foil Shambling Goblin, it's just that the old frame with the star at the bottom... it looks good, especially with my 20 old frame foil Swamps, but that's OK, I can't have everything haha.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Cruel Revival *could be* interesting to replace Crypt Rats in my sideboard. The only problem I see is the fact that it's 5 mana. It's fast enough against Affinity but not again Kiln Fiend. Oubliette and Snuff Out are better in that department, but I'm not sure paying 4 life is that good with Snuff Out. Victim of Night might be better overall. The problem with the latter two are the mirror matchup or against MBC, it doesn't kill Gray Merchant; Oubliette has only been printed in Alliance, no chance for foils, and too slow against Kiln Fiend anyway (not to say that I could end up targetting my own creature because of Apostle's Blessing.
Other weird considerations: Infernal Caretaker: so slowww at 7 mana... but so gooood too. I don't think it really helps though, kind of a win more card maybe. Grave Scrabbler: because you know, Rotting Rats. A little bit narrow though. Shepherd of Rot: if you play Sylvok Lifestaff maindeck, you may want to play this too.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
While I don't think this deck is anywhere near being T1, the banning of Treasure Cruise today should eliminate a lot of the graveyard hate in the format.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Sideboard against zombies? none. It's pretty funny actually, because they can't do anything against Viscera Dragger, so they don't side out the Curse, they still play it, then they realize that they are helping me with my 11 unearth creatures, but whatever eh? they still go for it. They'd probably be better targetting themselves with that bad Curse...
It's fun because this deck is everywhere right now in the tournament practice room and I have a 100% win rate against it so far (played around 10 matches -- 20 games total, all 2-0'd). If this deck really becomes something (or the UG variant with Fogs which has nothing against Gempalm Polluter when you have 15 mana and unearth everything in the same turn + Gary), my Zombie deck could do some milleage in daily events. Zombies are really meta-dependant overall.
I'm not seeing a lot of Esper Combo right now, surprisingly, it will be interesting to see how it develops after April 1st, post-ban.
I saw a couple of 3-color Delve deck too, not sure it's really viable but I must say that I'm pretty limited against big bodies, besides Geth's Verdict and Stinkweed Imp. That last one is good though, most decks aren't really able to get through it. But they did print a 4/4 trample green delve creature which can still be a problem, but I don't think this deck will be present enough in the meta anyway. Saw a couple of Zoo brews going back to Brainstorm too, problem is they only have one body that is big enough to survive Nameless Inversion, it's the 3-cmc domain dude which is usually 5/5, Geth's Verdict is perfect against it and Sylvok Lifestaff does a pretty good job against Tribal Flames too (or any deck playing burn or trying to race, except for infect and aura hexproof maybe, which I still have Shrivel/Verdict too).
Snuff Out helps against most creature-based strategies.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Shambling Ghoul
This could be worth some discussion. I currently play Butcher Ghoul and Dregscape Zombie. I don't think it does what I want it to do, since unearth is really good against any control deck, but it's still a 2/3 for 2.
All things considered, I think Dregscape Zombie is nearly strictly superior. 2 power creature, can block the turn is enters the battlefield, will still do 2 damages if it gets countered/destroyed, can pump Carrion Feeder twice, can be discarded to Rotting Rats for quick haste damages. I mean, it's a lot. Downsides? Yeah, 1 toughness instead of 3... Dregscape Zombie trades where Shambling Ghoul probably eats a whole creature, but it's not worth the loss of tempo IMO (and even less worth it when you add unearth into the equation).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I like your list! You took it in a direction I hadn't thought of. I've recently also been toying with a Zombie deck on MTGO, and it competes pretty strongly with Tier one, it recently went 2-2 in a Modern Daily, and was pretty close to 3-1ing it. I'm going to run it few a few more dailies in the near future. Here is my list -- it differs a bit from yours, but the zombie spirit is still there. It goes full on aggro early, and then in the late game out attritions the opponent with dudes who won't stay dead. Also, my list is pretty budget (ca. 40 tix), so if you wanted to make it better there is plenty of room for higher dollar cards:
If you are interested in seeing some game play footage, including the Modern daily and some other non-tournament matches against Tier One, it can all be found on my Youtube channel. Here is a link for all the playlists with videos featuring it.
Also, I agree with you on Shambling Ghoul -- I don't think it makes it into my list either, it just doesn't do enough.
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My MTG Youtube Channel (weekly draft videos!): Nizzahon Magic
Well I agree Shambling Ghoul doesn't do much when you have access to Geralf's Messenger and Gravecrawler. You are in the pauper section of the forum and posting a decklist 18 legal cards out of 75 (mostly basic lands) so yeah, I do expect that our lists differ!
Zombies are still far from 3-1 in dailies because Affinity is pretty strong right now and so is Kiln Fiend, but I still think the deck does a really good job against the 2 most played decks in the format: MBC and MUC. I did beat Tron yesterday with this build but it's an horrible matchup when they get the 5/5 green life-gainer creature going.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
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Here's my list:
4 Carrion Feeder
2 Shambling Goblin
4 Butcher Ghoul
3 Dregscape Zombie
3 Rotting Rats
4 Ghoulraiser
4 Viscera Dragger
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Gempalm Polluter
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Ghoulcaller's Chant
Instants: 4
4 Nameless Inversion
Lands: 22
2 Barren Moor
20 Swamp
3 Sylvok Lifestaff
3 Geth's Verdict
3 Shrivel
3 Stinkweed Imp
3 Snuff Out
A lot of card advantage without actually having any real drawing spells. Just cycle Draggers and Polluters, get them back with Ghoulcaller's Chant or Ghoulraiser, and play again. Polluter is also a good finisher and can win against fog decks (and it can't be countered). Gray Merchant is a zombie (thanks Wizards!), I have 12 Unearth dudes against counterspells or milling strategies (and it's good with Carrion Feeder). Rotting Rats has some advantages over Ravenous Rats too, it's a Zombie but Unearth also makes a huge difference when your opponent has 2 cards you want to get rid of or against countermagic (just Unearth it, get rid of the counterspell they can't cast on the Unearth ability, then play your shiny Gray Merchant for the win).
Nameless Inversion is a zombie card. Sideboard is pretty straight forward, I don't play Oubliette because Geth's Verdict is the only out against aura hexproof, Nausea is the only spell against white tokens/weenies (some versions play Guardian of the Guildpact and Obsidian Acolyte that are resiliant against Crypt Rats). Speaking of the Rats, it's too much better than Gangrenous Zombie (although I really love the tribal theme), it's a finisher, good against mass creature decks too. Stinkweed Imp is always a problem for MUC (Spire Golem anyone?) and finally, Sylvok Lifestaff is pretty much game over for Burn if you draw it.
I still have some bad matchups, any deck playing Relic of Progenitus maindeck is a really bad matchup. I can win, but it's really hard. Tron is not an easy matchup either, Zombies can be pretty agressive but if they have time to land a Fangren Marauder, things get quickly worse. Against Affinity, I need Festering Goblin to make Nameless Inversion really effective, if I can start some recursion engine with those 2, I'm usually winning. Crypt Rats paired with Sylvok Lifestaff and obviously Stinkweed Imp help post-sideboard.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
If going mono-black, people played snow-swamps for Gangrenous Zombies. Recurring it constantly was a lot to handle for other creature decks.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
4 mana for Strength of Night is a little bit too much. The way I've been playing this deck so far, I'm winning because my opponents are sitting on Counterspells and can't do anything against Cycling and Unearth. As soon as I play as spell, they counter it, because there isn't many spells to counter in the deck anyway (I mean, yeah Ghoulraiser can be countered, but usually if you also play the game of draw-go, they end up trying to play creature and not keeping enough mana to counter 2 spells in a turn).
I don't think splashing green only for Putried Leech is worth it.
Gangrenous Zombies is always a consideration, but the fact that Crypt Rats is so much superior and better makes it hard to run the zombie version. 1 damage to everything is good, 2 damage can be good too, but 4, 5 or 6 damage is even better against Tron, Affinity and Spire Golem. Also, Crypt Rats can be activated the turn it comes into play and it saved me so many games that I'm not even counting anymore (especially against Aura Hexproof). Ghoulcaller's Chant can still target any creature when needed, so the only real interaction you lose is Ghoulraiser, which is pretty much random anyway.
If you play paper pauper though and are interested in playing some games, feel free to PM me since I don't know a lot of people in Quebec City playing the format.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Putrid Leech is one of the better zombies available. As a stand-alone, he's the best in terms of power level. With a few good Green spells and sideboard cards, a Green splash is definitely worth it.
What do you think of Gurmag Angler? What I like about Delve here is that it can make Ghoulraiser a lot less random by exiling zombies you don't want to see again necessarily.
I'm definitely interested! Je viens de Sherbrooke, mais j'ai souvent à faire à Québec. I'll let you know if ever I'm around, and if ever you're in my area, feel free to message me!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
That leaves me to Festering Goblin, Gray Merchant and maybe the Gempalm Polluter but that's only 6 cards and the Polluter adds a lot to the consistency (cycling) and with Merchant, it's a great wincon against turbofog.
Just PM me if you are in Quebec!
About the delve Zombie, I considered it, it's definitely playable but again, doesn't fit the Feeder/unearth strategy really much, all the zombies get reanimated, so I need to delve lands and Chants, not something I put a lot in the graveyard.
Maybe more in a BG build, but if you go BG, I think Tortured Existence is just much superior, except for the current GY hate being run because of TC.
Edit: I'm going to think a little bit more about delve since yeah, in some situations, filtering for Ghoulraiser could really help. Maybe as a 2-of, I will play test it on MTGO
I'll stick with Mono Black.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Bad haha. Actually 50% of the decks are playing Treasure Cruise, half of the other half are playing Relic of Progenitus, which is, let's face it, really bad for this deck. The last 25% just doesn't care about TC for whatever reason, since we are mono-black we can deal with creatures just fine usually (especially post-sideboard).
I'm still able to beat mono-U Delver by playing wisely: play around Mana Leak and Miscalculation the first turn by cycling/unearthing creatures, then later in the game start to play relevant spells to get their hard Counterspells (some play Deprive too but it's less played than before). Also, we can play around Spellstutter Sprite just fine.
So if you are lucky, you will play against Treasure Cruise and Zombies can fight that, when you start chaining your Ghoulcaller's Chant into Ghoulraisers, you are getting a ton of card advantage too.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The question is: do I want to play 1 or 2? What do I remove? I think I can remove 1 Rotting Rats and/or 1 Dregscape Zombie, but playing 2 Gurmag Angler seems a lot, although late game I can just hardcast him. It's bigger enemy is probably Geth's Verdict and similar cards, but this deck is pretty resilient to sac effects late game... thanks to Butcher Ghoul and all the unearth creatures. Journey to Nowhere could be the real problem but I have Carrion Feeder against it. So yeah, a really good card, definitely must play at least 1.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I never want to have 2 Gurmag Angler in my opening hand, that would be worse than a mulligan. If I have 2 Gray Merchant, I have a game plan. If I habe 2 Gurmag Anglers, I don't really have a game plan, I can't even say that I will be able to play one by turn 5, and at least Gray Merchant can help me recover from early life loss.
Also, counterspells are a problem.
With that said, I will only play 1. Now, I have to remove 1 card, and I really considered every card in the deck. I think Rotting Rats is slightly better than Dregscape Zombie besides being 2+2 mana instead of 2+1 and despite the lesser power (1/1 instead of 2/1). To be able to fight control deck more, I really need those 4 Rats. I also really need 4 Feeders and I don't think 2 Goblins is too much either. I definitely don't want to touch Gary or Butcher Ghoul, and Ghoulraisers/Ghoucaller's Chant/Nameless Inversion are the heart of this deck.
That really doesn't leave me with many options, so I finally decide to cut 1 Dregscape Zombie. It's usually the first card I cut when I sideboard, with Butcher Ghoul depending on the matchup. So here we go. I think having 1 Gurmag Angler is an improvement over playing 4 Dregscape.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Also, I swapped Nausea for Shrivel because I decided to foil the paper version of this deck. Only problem is Crypt Rats right now, because 1 foil is worth the rest of the deck, but I guess it's worth it, I love that 7th ed art anyway.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Have you tried Sultai Emissary? Seem that card could be pretty good, as it manifestrips itself.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I didn't try it, it is definitely interesting but I probably don't want to manifest Viscera Dragger or Gempalm Polluter. Ghoulraiser would be even worse. So that leaves me with not a lot of cards I want to manifest, maybe 12, and I think this is a problem, because I really can't afford to lose a Gray Merchant or a Ghoulraiser without any value.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I'd probably make room for a second Angler in there somewhere. That interaction with Ghoulraiser seem really good.
Have you thought of Maindeck equipment? I feel like some Bonesplitter or Sylvok Lifestaff would be pretty good.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Lifestaff is only needed in some specific match ups, I really think this is a sideboard card.
Bonesplitter could be good for sure. I don't have any specific reason to not include it, it would probably help to trade against Affinity too, it's just that I don't want to cut any zombie and it's not really a sideboard card, if you go for it I think it has to be maindeck.
Could definitely play 2 Anglers but I tend to draw a lot of cards with my cycler since I'm getting them back to my hand and cycle them again a couple of times, and I don't think I want to have 2 Anglers in my opening hand in any situation, so that's why I only play 1 right now. The fact that I can recur it anyway kind of makes up for that, there are games where I will never draw it but I prefer that to risk having 2 early game and not being able to play anything.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Replaces Festering Goblin pretty effectively.
I'll take another look at your list. I'm sure it would be possible to find space for 2 'Splitters.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Didn't notice that Shambling Goblin says "opponent", that's why I didn't even mention it. Now, it looks strictly better. I'm sad though because the art was awesome on Festering Goblin with the old frame. No reason to keep it over that new one. I recall a couple of times where I couldn't play Festering Goblin because I would get 2-for-1.
I edited OP, thanks for that, but is rather not play Fume Splitter, I like having it all tribal in the maindeck at least and I honestly don't have that many situations where I would need Fume Splitter anyway. With a Carrion Feeder, the 2 Zombie Goblins are better.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
But yeah, I had similar results with the old Festering Goblin; someone destroying it at the wrong time and forcing me to target my own creatures. I actually really like the art on the new one, with the yellow eyes. It's different. I prefer the old card frame as well.
Looking over your deck, I feel like Viscera Dragger would be the easiest to cut for Bonesplitters. Butcher Ghoul and the Goblin are also pretty average. You might also consider Gempalm Polluter, as he can just be a bad cantrip in many scenarios. I wouldn't play a card that said "target opponent loses 2 life, draw a card" for example. Obviously it can't be countered and gets better with more creatures, but it can be hard to get good mileage out of that spell. A bit situational, I think.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
It's 30$ a piece for the foil 7th in paper.
Also, I'm now running 20 Swamps with 1 Bojuka Bog and 1 Barren Moor now, since I decided to foil the deck, I got 20 old frame Swamp foils with 20 different images (Invasion, Onslaught, 7th, Mercadian Masque and Odyssey). Didn't want to get promos so yeah... most mono black list I saw do run Bog and Barren Moor anyway. Just remember that this deck cycles through a lot of cards, playing 1-of isn't that bad and Barren Moor is actually good with Gurmag Angler too.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Gempalm Polluter has the advantage of mixing things up in the turbo fog matchup. They play 20 Fogs and try to mill you out, so you just wait to have 10-12 mana, unearth everything and Gempalm for the win. It's also a reliable cycler, recurrable... reliable... I think it's well worth it over Bonesplitter. If I need a 4 power creature besides Angler... Gempalm Polluter and Viscera Dragger+Lifestaff (especially against affinity) work too
Butcher Ghoul is far better than "average", with Carrion Feeder it's good, with Lifestaff post-SB it's too much for any burn deck, against Edicts you are just laughing... I like it and that's why I removed a Dregscape Zombie before a Butcher Ghoul. I could play only 3 though, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Same for Rotting Rats. That's 2 cards for 2 Bonesplitters if you want to.
Personally I think I prefer not running Bonesplitter, against affinity we now have Angler (they have nothing against this, especially when you recur it a couple of times) so the only reason to play Bonesplitter would be for the aggro plan. But the reality is that I don't always have a turn 1 play and turn 2 is usually a cycler, so I wouldn't call the deck aggro just for the occasional turn 1 Feeder and turn 2 Butcher. I have removal, might add a couple more in the sideboard if I decide to remove Crypt Rats (something like Snuff Out maybe). I prefer playing 4 Rats and 4 Butchers to add consistency to the deck instead.
I must be tired... Bonesplitter, Fume Spitter... or it might be dyslexia. Anyway. I like the yellow eyes too, there is nothing to be shy about a foil Shambling Goblin, it's just that the old frame with the star at the bottom... it looks good, especially with my 20 old frame foil Swamps, but that's OK, I can't have everything haha.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Also, Duress.
Other weird considerations:
Infernal Caretaker: so slowww at 7 mana... but so gooood too. I don't think it really helps though, kind of a win more card maybe.
Grave Scrabbler: because you know, Rotting Rats. A little bit narrow though.
Shepherd of Rot: if you play Sylvok Lifestaff maindeck, you may want to play this too.
Edit: Decided to go for Snuff Out now, it's better than Crypt Rats against Ulamog's Crusher, Fangren Marauder, Spire Golem, Matca Rioters and Nivix Cyclops. It's not the cheapest foils to get either, but 3 Snuff Out are the same price of 1 Crypt Rats, so that will do for now, I think it's a better card overall for my deck anyway, besides maybe the fact that I was able to recur Crypt Rats with the first part of Ghoulcaller's Chant. But a friend of mine plays zoo and besides trying to kill everything with Nameless Inversion for a well timed Geth's Verdict, it's really hard to get rid of Matca Rioters.
I don't have a lot of answers against a Gurmag Angler besides playing one of my own, but that's fair, it's not a card I see that often.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Sideboard against zombies? none. It's pretty funny actually, because they can't do anything against Viscera Dragger, so they don't side out the Curse, they still play it, then they realize that they are helping me with my 11 unearth creatures, but whatever eh? they still go for it. They'd probably be better targetting themselves with that bad Curse...
It's fun because this deck is everywhere right now in the tournament practice room and I have a 100% win rate against it so far (played around 10 matches -- 20 games total, all 2-0'd). If this deck really becomes something (or the UG variant with Fogs which has nothing against Gempalm Polluter when you have 15 mana and unearth everything in the same turn + Gary), my Zombie deck could do some milleage in daily events. Zombies are really meta-dependant overall.
I'm not seeing a lot of Esper Combo right now, surprisingly, it will be interesting to see how it develops after April 1st, post-ban.
I saw a couple of 3-color Delve deck too, not sure it's really viable but I must say that I'm pretty limited against big bodies, besides Geth's Verdict and Stinkweed Imp. That last one is good though, most decks aren't really able to get through it. But they did print a 4/4 trample green delve creature which can still be a problem, but I don't think this deck will be present enough in the meta anyway. Saw a couple of Zoo brews going back to Brainstorm too, problem is they only have one body that is big enough to survive Nameless Inversion, it's the 3-cmc domain dude which is usually 5/5, Geth's Verdict is perfect against it and Sylvok Lifestaff does a pretty good job against Tribal Flames too (or any deck playing burn or trying to race, except for infect and aura hexproof maybe, which I still have Shrivel/Verdict too).
Snuff Out helps against most creature-based strategies.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
This could be worth some discussion. I currently play Butcher Ghoul and Dregscape Zombie. I don't think it does what I want it to do, since unearth is really good against any control deck, but it's still a 2/3 for 2.
All things considered, I think Dregscape Zombie is nearly strictly superior. 2 power creature, can block the turn is enters the battlefield, will still do 2 damages if it gets countered/destroyed, can pump Carrion Feeder twice, can be discarded to Rotting Rats for quick haste damages. I mean, it's a lot. Downsides? Yeah, 1 toughness instead of 3... Dregscape Zombie trades where Shambling Ghoul probably eats a whole creature, but it's not worth the loss of tempo IMO (and even less worth it when you add unearth into the equation).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
4x Blood Crypt
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Sulfurous Springs
10x Swamp
Creatures:
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Gravecrawler
4x Rakdos Guildmage
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Death Baron
4x Risen Executioner
3x Tymaret, the Murder King
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Dreadbore
4x Terminate
1x Necromancer's Stockpile
2x Dreadbore
2x Necromancer's Stockpile
3x Slaughter Games
3x Anathemancer
2x Stromgald Crusader
3x Rakdos Charm
If you are interested in seeing some game play footage, including the Modern daily and some other non-tournament matches against Tier One, it can all be found on my Youtube channel. Here is a link for all the playlists with videos featuring it.
Also, I agree with you on Shambling Ghoul -- I don't think it makes it into my list either, it just doesn't do enough.
Well I agree Shambling Ghoul doesn't do much when you have access to Geralf's Messenger and Gravecrawler. You are in the pauper section of the forum and posting a decklist 18 legal cards out of 75 (mostly basic lands) so yeah, I do expect that our lists differ!
Zombies are still far from 3-1 in dailies because Affinity is pretty strong right now and so is Kiln Fiend, but I still think the deck does a really good job against the 2 most played decks in the format: MBC and MUC. I did beat Tron yesterday with this build but it's an horrible matchup when they get the 5/5 green life-gainer creature going.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.