I'm guessing you run an "all-black" manabase, instead of the bunch of basic lands I run, to power the rats? Seems like with the rats you actually have the opponent within Consume Spirit range often enough. I use Evincar's Justice for board clear, I guess. I don't favour being all-in on the combo as I find that usually it's not enough to kill unless I get 2 Songs, and even then it's not usually good enough.
Anything you need to sideboard against? If you don't run white, how do you deal with grave hate?
Sure. The white splash hadn't occurred to me at all - the RBG version just runs grudge to kill relics and tries to just power through the other stuff. The blue-black version just hopes to mill a ton in one turn if there's grave hate expected and pretty much scoops to an unfired relic on board. The board is not so well tuned, probably wants more anti-control stuff (duresses or whatevs) and less removal.
Decided to shell out for Crypt Rats eventually. So far, they're worth the price, and they were cheap at the time
I took out the white splash - Gilded Light was a good idea, but with 4 colours the manabase became rather unwieldy and drawing into Plains/Gilded Light in a timely manner was an issue. Plan is now to go midrange if there's grave hate. Anyway, Death Denied is a decent answer to grave hate - send all the cyclers back to my hand for another round.
Jungle Weaver got replaced with the uncastable Architects of Will, because most matchups in which the reach would be relevant usually have small fliers that die to Rats/Justice. There's always Deadshot Minotaur, anyway.
SB is mainly BG goodstuff, except for Ambush Viper as a Doom Blade that doesn't target (mainly for Bogles).
I'm having a great success with the below list, I won more than ~60% of my online matches and got the first place in a local pauper tournament.
My matchups in the tournament:
2-1 Elves
2-0 Slivers
2-0 Mono black
2-0 Mono black
My mainboard list is focused against agro/midrange decks, which I think is the most common decks you will find out there. I don't know if is only my list or the deck per se, but I struggle against tron and delver, that is why I have some slots dedicated against these decks.
Some examples of my sideboard plan:
Mono black: +3 Death Denied, +2 Duress / -3 Songs of the Damned, -2 Gnaw to the Bone
The matchup against delver is very thought, even after SB.
I din't had a chance to play against teachings, but I think it is hard to play as well because of the magic counters.
looking for possible sideboard , i saw "aerial volley" together with "scattershot archer" + duress in the sideboard might force delver to use its precious counterspell.
not sure though how much sideboard space will it take.
current meta in our LGS are the following:
mbc x3
ub teachings x1
ub trinket x1
elf x1
turbo fog x1
delver x1
white flying tokens x1
i havent played against ub trinket, but i think its another headache for us since it can fetch for its graveyard hate.
I think it's about time there was a separation of the cycling archetype
there is the Songs of the Damned combo version and I believe we are finally at the point where a midrangy deck with big mana cycling creatures and Mortuary Mire/Erratic Explosion can work
hi all! has anyone still playing this deck? any latest list available for this deck?
i also like to ask what's the reasoning for viscera dragger in some list? is it worth it as compared to other cycling cards that only needs 1-mana to cycle?
i'm currently tuning my deck and hope someone can check it out and have a feedback regarding my list, thanks!
hi all! has anyone still playing this deck? any latest list available for this deck?
i also like to ask what's the reasoning for viscera dragger in some list? is it worth it as compared to other cycling cards that only needs 1-mana to cycle?
i'm currently tuning my deck and hope someone can check it out and have a feedback regarding my list, thanks!
in your list there are several cards that I do not understand as dead weight or unearth for example.
does not have any kind of synergy with the deck...
*unearth in hand*
scenario#1: i need life gain but no gnaw in hand and graveyard but satyr wayfinder is in graveyard, cast unearth > wayfinder > mill 4 > hope to get gnaw.
scenario#2: somehow able to cast a 1-cmc crypt rats from the yard.
scenario#3: need some blockers in early game while establishing gameplan: unearth > pit keeper > get spitter/wayfinder > cast spitter wayfinder
scenario#4: need to go plan B (casting creatures), unearth > pit keeper > get horror of the broken lands
scenario#4: pump for horror of the broken lands
scenario#5: just cycle it.
agree with viscera dragger as suboptimal, i used to play the jund manabase version before amonkhet, what i like here is the consistency provided by playing only 2 colors but i do miss hardcasting monstrous carabid specially in matches where i'm on plan B.
I've had a bit of success with this deck in local tournaments. Right now I'm testing a new version with more Grisly Salvage (this card has always seemed good), 1-2 Stinkweed Imp for some more aggressive graveyard dumping, and 1x Morgue Theft for extra Crypt Rats retrieval. Was Grim Harvest, but thinking of cutting Fume Spitters...it seems they'll be less needed post-Gush ban, since Faerie Delver will fall in the meta, and Tireless Tribe isn't really a deck anymore...and that makes it a bit harder for this deck to reliably trigger Recover.
BTW I think Architects of Will are strictly better than Monstrous Carabid in this deck. Both are uncastable, but the Architects are better since they can be pitched as an artifact to Wrench Mind.
hi! sharing to you guys my experience with winding way from MH1, i'm currently playing 2 copies MB. i find it to be a very good fit in our deck:
- can be cast T2 and choose land to ensure our land drops on succeeding turns while milling our deck for gnaw/creature count.
- not a bad topdeck late game, choose creature and cycle them for more digging
- great tool to refill our hands vs discard effects
i'm trying x2 barrier of bones in the fume spitter slot, 0/3 can block a lot in pauper and the card filtering from surveil is also a plus in this deck. infect is nowhere to be seen and delver is not that popular in the current meta for fume spitter to shine.
i'm also loving how winding way performs, i'm currently at x3. i normally find myself choosing lands except in scenarios wherein i'm looking for a wincon (crypt rats / pit keeper (to get back crypt rats) / horror of the broken lands (if already on plan B).
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I'm guessing you run an "all-black" manabase, instead of the bunch of basic lands I run, to power the rats? Seems like with the rats you actually have the opponent within Consume Spirit range often enough. I use Evincar's Justice for board clear, I guess. I don't favour being all-in on the combo as I find that usually it's not enough to kill unless I get 2 Songs, and even then it's not usually good enough.
Anything you need to sideboard against? If you don't run white, how do you deal with grave hate?
Retired: WUEphara, God of the PolisWU blink | WGerrard CapashenW lifegain | WUB Ertai, the CorruptedWUB combo | WAvacyn, Angel of HopeW
mono-white controlangel tribalPauper: UBDimirKittyUB | RBG Deathcycle RBG
Modern: GWUEnchantressGWU | GWUTurbofogGWU
2 Krosan Tusker
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Architects of Will
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
3 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Crypt Rats
1 Moment's Peace
4 Pit Keeper
4 Songs of the Damned
1 Death Denied
4 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Fume Spitter
2 Mountain
3 Consume Spirit
2 Forest
6 Swamp
3 Jungle Hollow
2 Moment's Peace
2 Duress
3 Fume Spitter
2 Doom Blade
3 Ancient Grudge
And here's the wombo-combo BUG version:
4 Architects of Will
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
3 Crypt Rats
4 Tortured Existence
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Songs of the Damned
2 Mnemonic Wall
3 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Blood Celebrant
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Pit Keeper
4 Evolving Wilds
8 Swamp
5 Forest
1 Island
1 Festercreep
3 Fume Spitter
1 Crypt Rats
2 Moment's Peace
1 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Duress
2 Naturalize
2 Scattershot Archer
4 Architects of Will
4 Barkhide Mauler
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
Utility (12)
2 Death Denied
2 Duress
4 Evincar's Justice
4 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Crypt Rats
4 Songs of the Damned
Lands (20)
4 Barren Moor
1 Bloodfell Caves
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Ambush Viper
3 Bojuka Bog
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
4 Naturalize
Decided to shell out for Crypt Rats eventually. So far, they're worth the price, and they were cheap at the time
I took out the white splash - Gilded Light was a good idea, but with 4 colours the manabase became rather unwieldy and drawing into Plains/Gilded Light in a timely manner was an issue. Plan is now to go midrange if there's grave hate. Anyway, Death Denied is a decent answer to grave hate - send all the cyclers back to my hand for another round.
I tried a manabase without cycling lands (Jungle Hollow for Tranquil Thicket, Swamp/Bloodfell Caves for Barren Moor) but it was too slow and I got mana flooded more often than I'd like without cycling lands to search for key cards like Crypt Rats/Evincar's Justice against aggro. So I gave up on that.
Jungle Weaver got replaced with the uncastable Architects of Will, because most matchups in which the reach would be relevant usually have small fliers that die to Rats/Justice. There's always Deadshot Minotaur, anyway.
SB is mainly BG goodstuff, except for Ambush Viper as a Doom Blade that doesn't target (mainly for Bogles).
Thoughts?
Retired: WUEphara, God of the PolisWU blink | WGerrard CapashenW lifegain | WUB Ertai, the CorruptedWUB combo | WAvacyn, Angel of HopeW
mono-white controlangel tribalPauper: UBDimirKittyUB | RBG Deathcycle RBG
Modern: GWUEnchantressGWU | GWUTurbofogGWU
My matchups in the tournament:
2-1 Elves
2-0 Slivers
2-0 Mono black
2-0 Mono black
My mainboard list is focused against agro/midrange decks, which I think is the most common decks you will find out there. I don't know if is only my list or the deck per se, but I struggle against tron and delver, that is why I have some slots dedicated against these decks.
Some examples of my sideboard plan:
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Pit Keeper
3 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Pulse of Murasa
Wrath
2 Swirling Sandstorm
4 Songs of the Damned
4 Crypt Rats
Cycling
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Architects of Will
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Street Wraith
2 Mountain
3 Barren Moor
2 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Jungle Hollow
1 Rugged Highlands
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Pyroblast
3 Doom Blade
2 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Scattershot Archer
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Death Denied
using your sideboard plan, how's your game against delver?
Its my first time to play against a delver deck and I say it's very difficult to win, too many counter.
now that we have a delver deck in our LGS, I think I need to dedicate some sideboard slots against it.
btw, have you played against a teachings deck? thats another deck Im having trouble to play with, it can search for it's crypt incursion and that's it
I din't had a chance to play against teachings, but I think it is hard to play as well because of the magic counters.
not sure though how much sideboard space will it take.
current meta in our LGS are the following:
mbc x3
ub teachings x1
ub trinket x1
elf x1
turbo fog x1
delver x1
white flying tokens x1
i havent played against ub trinket, but i think its another headache for us since it can fetch for its graveyard hate.
The deck of this thread is good against agro decks, so it's not suitable for your meta.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/563225#paper
there is the Songs of the Damned combo version and I believe we are finally at the point where a midrangy deck with big mana cycling creatures and Mortuary Mire/Erratic Explosion can work
i also like to ask what's the reasoning for viscera dragger in some list? is it worth it as compared to other cycling cards that only needs 1-mana to cycle?
i'm currently tuning my deck and hope someone can check it out and have a feedback regarding my list, thanks!
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tranquil Thicket
2 Ash Barrens
4 Jungle Hollow
2 Forest
8 Swamp
Creatures (29)
4 Crypt Rats
3 Fume Spitter
2 Pit Keeper
2 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
4 Lurching Rotbeast
4 Street Wraith
4 Monstrous Carabid
2 Krosan Tusker
3 Songs of the Damned
2 Dead Weight
2 Unearth
3 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Moment's Peace
1 Grisly Salvage
3 Duress
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Shrivel
2 Naturalize
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Moment's Peace
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Bone Harvest
in your list there are several cards that I do not understand as dead weight or unearth for example.
does not have any kind of synergy with the deck...
I keep playing the deck, the list is as follows
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/songs-of-the-damned-bgr/
i can no longer remember my reasoning about dead weight (my bad).
my reasoning for unearth is as a toolbox for satyr wayfinder/pit keeper/crypt rats.
this are the sample scenario in which unearth may come in handy:
*unearth in hand*
scenario#1: i need life gain but no gnaw in hand and graveyard but satyr wayfinder is in graveyard, cast unearth > wayfinder > mill 4 > hope to get gnaw.
scenario#2: somehow able to cast a 1-cmc crypt rats from the yard.
scenario#3: need some blockers in early game while establishing gameplan: unearth > pit keeper > get spitter/wayfinder > cast spitter wayfinder
scenario#4: need to go plan B (casting creatures), unearth > pit keeper > get horror of the broken lands
scenario#4: pump for horror of the broken lands
scenario#5: just cycle it.
btw, here's my updated decklist: https://deckstats.net/decks/121773/1246330-song-cycling/en
without red sources you can not hardcasting Monstrous Carabid
You should try my version, I assure you that you never get stuck in mana
agree with viscera dragger as suboptimal, i used to play the jund manabase version before amonkhet, what i like here is the consistency provided by playing only 2 colors but i do miss hardcasting monstrous carabid specially in matches where i'm on plan B.
I'm going to leave a little guide for sb
In front of boros monarch and burn we have a very favorable match the only card that really hurts us is the post side relic and the base bojuka
VS BOROS
-------------
in:
+ 2 Stinkweed Imp
+ 2 Ingot Chewer
out:
- 1 Grisly Salvage
- 1 Krosan Tusker
- 2 Street Wraith
VS BURN
----------------
in:
+ 3 Duress
+ 3 Augur of Skulls
out:
- 4 Street Wraith
- 1 Krosan Tusker
- 1 Crypt Rats
VS UR DELVER
--------------
in:
+2 Stinkweed Imp
+2 Moment's Peace
+3 Duress (for dispel flaring pain or gush)
out:
-2 Krosan Tusker
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Crypt Rats
-1 Monstrous Carabid
VS MBC
-----------
in:
+1 Battlefield Scrounger
+3 Duress
out:
-3 Songs of the Damned
-1 Grisly Salvage
**generally the games are very long and there is a lot of wear and I decide to cut the songs because we accumulate a lot of land
BTW I think Architects of Will are strictly better than Monstrous Carabid in this deck. Both are uncastable, but the Architects are better since they can be pitched as an artifact to Wrench Mind.
- can be cast T2 and choose land to ensure our land drops on succeeding turns while milling our deck for gnaw/creature count.
- not a bad topdeck late game, choose creature and cycle them for more digging
- great tool to refill our hands vs discard effects
i'm also loving how winding way performs, i'm currently at x3. i normally find myself choosing lands except in scenarios wherein i'm looking for a wincon (crypt rats / pit keeper (to get back crypt rats) / horror of the broken lands (if already on plan B).