Dark ritual is inherent card disadvantage. In order for it to be worth it, the gain in board position must compensate for that in either killing speed or future card advantage.
MBA's use is for killing speed... but in this removal-heavy meta, it is simply not fast enough. A Dark Ritual opening will still, even without interaction and in an ideal hand, need 3 turns to kill someone (very rare) and will often need 5+. That gives control decks far too much time to stabilize, and there are far more consistent aggro decks (DelverFiend) that will usually win the race, with or without Dark Ritual.
Therefore, I concluded that it isn't worth it. It actually hurts our game against control (letting them stabilize by answering one fewer card more often than it would kill them), and it does not significantly help against other aggro decks with a faster, more consistent clock than ours. Also, as mentioned above, it's horrible to top-deck into one.
Whoa whoa whoa.. I really (usually) hold my tongue very well against comments of this nature but this is complete hogwash. Dark Ritual is one of the best advantages in the game, I will quote and agree with what Darkninja107 said below me. If you can throw down two-three creatures turn one then on turn two equip a Bonesplitter where the hell is the disadvantage? If you can jump the gun on board presence then Sign in Blood yourself you are all set.
It seems like you are grossly under-estimating Dark Ritual. You're saying it's a disadvantage to play 2-3 creatures in your opening turn than to play one creature due to removal? What removal will kill 3 creatures turn 1? If you say Dark Ritual isn't fast enough, then what is?
If you're on the play you can get 4-5 damage on the board, add in a turn 2 Bonesplitter then you have 6-7 damage. Assuming your opponent has turn one removal in their deck (Vapor Snag, Lightning Bolt or Disfigure being the main culprits) then you will only lose one creature on your turn 2 attack and still hit for 2-3 damage. Without Dark Ritual you play one creature first turn then that creature is dead second turn then you have no damage dealt until at least 3rd turn, but under your logic they still have enough removal, so there's goes turn 3 and possibly 4. You aren't running discard so removal will tear through your deck no matter what, but Dark Ritual gives you early pressure that can be completely answered until turn 3. If you assume they'll have answers against your opening Dark Ritual, then they will also have those answers for the same play spread out over your first few turns, so you lost either way. Even against Aggro putting out that many creatures first turn is good so then you'll have room to keep open mana for removal.
If you don't have the space or you don't want to play Dark Ritual, then that's fine, but don't try and dissuade other players from it with incorrect assumptions.
One important thing.
U dont got Dark ritual at hand , only u pick it in 3 turn. And what u do with that? Then its card disadvantage. On tournament , on 9 games i had 2 times only Dark Ritual on start hand , even if i was using 4 copies.
It seems like you are grossly under-estimating Dark Ritual. You're saying it's a disadvantage to play 2-3 creatures in your opening turn than to play one creature due to removal? What removal will kill 3 creatures turn 1? If you say Dark Ritual isn't fast enough, then what is?
If you're on the play you can get 4-5 damage on the board, add in a turn 2 Bonesplitter then you have 6-7 damage. Assuming your opponent has turn one removal in their deck (Vapor Snag, Lightning Bolt or Disfigure being the main culprits) then you will only lose one creature on your turn 2 attack and still hit for 2-3 damage. Without Dark Ritual you play one creature first turn then that creature is dead second turn then you have no damage dealt until at least 3rd turn, but under your logic they still have enough removal, so there's goes turn 3 and possibly 4. You aren't running discard so removal will tear through your deck no matter what, but Dark Ritual gives you early pressure that can be completely answered until turn 3. If you assume they'll have answers against your opening Dark Ritual, then they will also have those answers for the same play spread out over your first few turns, so you lost either way. Even against Aggro putting out that many creatures first turn is good so then you'll have room to keep open mana for removal.
If you don't have the space or you don't want to play Dark Ritual, then that's fine, but don't try and dissuade other players from it with incorrect assumptions.
Sorry, I forgot to properly emphasize Dark Ritual's worst point and the real reason it is not worth running (rather than pointing out that its strong point isn't good enough): It's horrible once you drop your hand (usually turn 3-4) in my meta.
Dark Ritual is 4 cards that are good in your opening hand and completely horrible later. Yes, it gives you a large amount of extra burst if you have one in your opening hand... but far more often than not, you will NOT get the ideal draw of three 1-drop creatures+Dark Ritual+Swamp. The point is that the card is inconsistent, and in a meta where MBA will enter top-deck mode fairly often in contested games (due to control removing everything or people putting blockers up), you're often just drawing a dead card. It is objectively sub-optimal for the deck compared to additional threats. It's great when it's perfect... but Magic is not a game where you will always get that.
I realize that your local paper metas may differ significantly from mine (MTGO, competitive, leans heavily toward mid-range/control after Storm bannings), which would affect its viability, and I do apologize for giving the impression it's always a bad choice.
I do like your suggestion about Sign in Blood, though. The extra sustain should help for the very reasons that Dark Ritual fails. Vault Skirge is also worth a test, probably replacing Pulse Tracker.
Guys what do u think about B/W lifegain/control deck? I mean with Gray Merchant of Asphodel , from white creatures Soul Sisters and other gaining life , and on black side , Soulcage Fiend , and others who costs our life points? ;d
Just play MBC if you want Gray Merchant; he fits best into that shell with his 5 CMC. Far too expensive for MBA; you could Dark Ritual to help... but the deck's manabase is meant for fast, cheap threats, not big spells.
You should take a look at Orzhov Control lists, too. They sound similar to what you're describing.
One important thing.
U dont got Dark ritual at hand , only u pick it in 3 turn. And what u do with that? Then its card disadvantage. On tournament , on 9 games i had 2 times only Dark Ritual on start hand , even if i was using 4 copies.
That happens some times, but sometimes it doesn't. If it was a problem for you and you think you can do fine without it, then go for it. My problem was Placebo Effect completely discrediting the card in an incorrect way, not that he didn't want to play it. I've played games with my Delver deck in which Daze wasn't in my opening hand and was a dead draw, but that doesn't mean I should drop it or tell people not to play it. You might play MBA and rarely get Vampire Lacerator in your opening had and only draw it when you're at low life and it's a dead draw, but would you completely drop it?
As XBM pointed out, Sign in Blood helps Dark Ritual be relevant throughout the game. Adding in a couple of Consume Spirits will help too. As your deck and Placebo Effect's deck stand you're gonna fall to efficient aggro and control since you are going to run out of steam. Sign in Blood is the best Card Advantage for black and Read the Bones is second (but too expensive for MBA) and Dark Ritual helps add early pressure to slip by MUC's counters or get in enough damage early to make Spot Removal an uphill battle.
How have your decks done so far? Am I incorrect in my assessments?
Sorry if it seems like I'm being overly negative, but Primers are supposed to help players learn and build the best decks of certain proven/established archetypes. That doesn't mean you have to build a deck a certain way and it's great to share ideas and showcase a variety of decks. We love it when discussions start about strategy and card choices, but to attempt to completely discredit the writer's advice is somewhat disrespectful to the OP. If you don't fully agree with some choices then that is fine, variety is the spice of life (and Magic) after all, but don't try and present your opinions as facts when they are counter active to the Primers advice.
That happens some times, but sometimes it doesn't. If it was a problem for you and you think you can do fine without it, then go for it. My problem was Placebo Effect completely discrediting the card in an incorrect way, not that he didn't want to play it. I've played games with my Delver deck in which Daze wasn't in my opening hand and was a dead draw, but that doesn't mean I should drop it or tell people not to play it. You might play MBA and rarely get Vampire Lacerator in your opening had and only draw it when you're at low life and it's a dead draw, but would you completely drop it?
As XBM pointed out, Sign in Blood helps Dark Ritual be relevant throughout the game. Adding in a couple of Consume Spirits will help too. As your deck and Placebo Effect's deck stand you're gonna fall to efficient aggro and control since you are going to run out of steam. Sign in Blood is the best Card Advantage for black and Read the Bones is second (but too expensive for MBA) and Dark Ritual helps add early pressure to slip by MUC's counters or get in enough damage early to make Spot Removal an uphill battle.
How have your decks done so far? Am I incorrect in my assessments?
Sorry if it seems like I'm being overly negative, but Primers are supposed to help players learn and build the best decks of certain proven/established archetypes. That doesn't mean you have to build a deck a certain way and it's great to share ideas and showcase a variety of decks. We love it when discussions start about strategy and card choices, but to attempt completely discredit the writer's advice is somewhat disrespectful to the OP. If you don't fully agree with some choices then that is fine, variety is the spice of life (and Magic) after all, but don't try and present your opinions as facts when they are counter active to the Primers advice.
Yes, I do see that I was wrong to push as hard as I did against Dark Ritual (I made another post since then, my apologies), especially since I am technically an online outsider where the metas are certainly different (there is no MBA online primer!).
Variety may be the spice of life, but there are objectively optimal and sub-optimal card choices given a certain meta.
My deck has had very favorable matchups so far against most of my meta:
MUC (with all the one-drops, it's pretty easy to play around counters, really. Bonesplitter + a couple unblockable creatures=easy game), Delver, Tron, Elves, various rogue decks like AzoriusKitty and Reality Acid.
Slivers is favorable as long as you remember to save your removal for the lords.
Hexproof and DelverFiend seem roughly even (unfavorable pre, very favorable postboard), Affinity (the Atog combo kind) is unfavorable at 60-40 or worse.
Sadly, it falls absolutely flat against MBC, which is itself a good 10-15% of the meta these days. I have lost 5 straight matches and barely won a 6th when he got mana-screwed both games (and seemed to be running a non-standard list that didn't focus on Gary). Removal and lifegain plus Guul Draz not having evasion is a tough mountain to climb.
Edit: For those reasons, the occasional Dimir control matchup is also pretty bad. It's been gaining popularity as well.
Yes, I do see that I was wrong to push as hard as I did against Dark Ritual (I made another post since then, my apologies), especially since I am technically an online outsider where the metas are certainly different (there is no MBA online primer!).
Variety may be the spice of life, but there are objectively optimal and sub-optimal card choices given a certain meta.
My deck has had very favorable matchups so far against most of my meta:
MUC (with all the one-drops, it's pretty easy to play around counters, really. Bonesplitter + a couple unblockable creatures=easy game), Delver, Tron, Elves, various rogue decks like AzoriusKitty and Reality Acid.
Hexproof and DelverFiend seem roughly even (unfavorable pre, very favorable postboard), Affinity (the Atog combo kind) is unfavorable at 60-40 or worse
I understand that it hasn't worked out before. There's been times in which Dark Ritual hasn't worked for me, but it's good far outweighs the bad in my experience. But let's but that discussion to rest for now.
I get that you are coming from an Online point of view and don't have a Primer in the Online section, so I'm glad if this Primer helped you out. After a quick search through Pauper Dailies, I found that MBA wasn't included in the top Archetypes, so perhaps you found a lot of luck in the fact that it's a fringe deck that isn't expected. If it works in your meta then keep at it! Perhaps if you feel you have enough experience and knowledge with the deck you can write a Primer for the MTGO section.
Sadly, it falls absolutely flat against MBC, which is itself a good 10-15% of the meta these days. I have lost 5 straight matches and barely won a 6th when he got mana-screwed both games (and seemed to be running a non-standard list that didn't focus on Gary). Removal and lifegain plus Guul Draz not having evasion is a tough mountain to climb.
Have you tried Apostle's Blessing in your Side Board against MBC? Perhaps that can help turn the tides in those matchups. Even some recursion like Death Denied or Morbid Plunder can do some work for you. Duress and Wrench Mind are good choices as well.
^That's the deck you posted. You don't even need a full playset of Sign in Blood, 3 works fine. You could drop 1 Bonesplitter, 1 Vampire's Bite and 1 Bump in the Night. Or drop 2 Bumps and 1 Vampire's Bite or vice versa.
Guys what do u think about B/W lifegain/control deck? I mean with Gray Merchant of Asphodel , from white creatures Soul Sisters and other gaining life , and on black side , Soulcage Fiend , and others who costs our life points? ;d
By the time you did all that you'd be running a very different deck that wouldn't fit in this Primer. You might as well take that to the main Paper Pauper section and get feedback and discussion from there.
lol , i even dont know for what there is so much section , Casual & Related Formats > Paper Pauper / Peasant > Pauper Primers , there should be one section called PAUPER and thats it.
I dont know what is difffrence beetwen paper pauper and pauper primers lol
The Primer section in any subforum is a collection of Primers about deck Archetypes. It describes types of decks and card choices and variants. For example, we have a Primer for White Weenie decks and a Primer Infect decks. It also supplies a section for posts pertaining to the Archetype to cut down on too many similar posts in the main subforum.
The main Paper Pauper section is for everything else. Discussions and posts about any decks without a Primer, new cards and strategies.
lol , i even dont know for what there is so much section , Casual & Related Formats > Paper Pauper / Peasant > Pauper Primers , there should be one section called PAUPER and thats it.
I dont know what is difffrence beetwen paper pauper and pauper primers lol
It isn't a hard concept to grasp, and we shouldn't just have one section for Pauper because if we did we would have nearly an entire page of Sticky's. Sub-forums are required to separate things such as primers so it keeps the overall forum appearance clean and neat.
If you don't know the difference between paper Pauper and the primers section here it is.
Within the paper Pauper / Peasant sub-forum you discuss creative deck ideas, cards, strategies and many more things. For established decks such as White Weenie you have a primer section dedicated to those who want to create and talk about that deck, all such discussions take place in there as-well rather then all over the sub-forum. You don't have a primer for a Pauper spider deck because that deck isn't an established deck so it is discussed outside of that section.
Now that will be all that I mention on the matter because this primer has effectively been derailed long enough. I suggest creating a new thread outside of this if you wish to continue the discussion further so the wrath of the moderators isn't invoked.
I swapped out Bump in the Night for Sign in Blood, and it really has done wonders for me (thanks Darkninja, XBM for being patient with me!). Keeping the beaters coming is huge, particularly against control. I have a much more even matchup against MBC now. I've also been testing Altar's Reap as SB tech against control options; it works well in response to removal with the added bonus of countering Tendrils of Corruption lifegain.
Finally, I have to acknowledge that with SIB in there, Dark Ritual does do wonders for getting your guys out. I still don't run it in my meta, but my hand takes many more turns to empty now that I have an extra 2-drop that also refills my hand. Dark Ritual would speed that up significantly.
I swapped out Bump in the Night for Sign in Blood, and it really has done wonders for me (thanks Darkninja, XBM for being patient with me!). Keeping the beaters coming is huge, particularly against control. I have a much more even matchup against MBC now. I've also been testing Altar's Reap as SB tech against control options; it works well in response to removal with the added bonus of countering Tendrils of Corruption lifegain.
Finally, I have to acknowledge that with SIB in there, Dark Ritual does do wonders for getting your guys out. I still don't run it in my meta, but my hand takes many more turns to empty now that I have an extra 2-drop that also refills my hand. Dark Ritual would speed that up significantly.
Glad it worked out! Card advantage is a very important of any deck and Sign in Blood is awesome for Black. One reason why I'm not a fan of running mono White or mono Red aggro is due to the lack of good card draws.
Great idea thinking of Altar's Reap against control. Instant speed drawing really puts in more work against those decks and you might as well get some use out of a creature if it's going to die anyway.
Guys what do u think about Renegade Demon?
How about putting him into mba? Is it worth? Or if not how deck should be builded to got him? Cause i saw him today and i would like to play him
Sry for my eng.
Guys what do u think about Renegade Demon?
How about putting him into mba? Is it worth? Or if not how deck should be builded to got him? Cause i saw him today and i would like to play him
Sry for my eng.
Renegade Demon might work in that deck you linked, but as a card by itself it is horrible. No abilities, poor toughness and a high mana cost just make it laughable in Pauper.
That overall deck is very fragile as-well, it might be fun but it won't really put up a great fight. It almost reminds me of decks that played the Big Furry Monster, it sucked but damn it was fun.
You MUST sacrifice six creatures named Shadowborn Apostle. By that it does mean all at once. Otherwise you might lose track or something, which could also lead to cheating.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
I noticed something in the Primer that needs correcting. In the Peasant section you have Nantuko Shade listed as a choice, but it has only been printed as a Rare. It isn't Peasant legal.
Ok so in all matches i was just out of creatures cause opponents was destroying this with spells . And then on the table i had 3 bonesplitters and no creatures.
So i think i will buy 4xUndying Evil and 3xSoulcage Fiend
And maybe Grim Roustabout? Undying evil will be in place of Victim of Night ,Soulcage Fiend in place of Vault Skirge . What do u think? Maybe i should throw out something more for Grim? Btw. I rly dont see any help from Vault skirge he costs me 2 lifes and land , and his flying and lifelink isnt something 'wow' with 1/1 stats. So i say bye bye to him.
Sry for eng.
Or maybe Unearth?
What kind of decks did you play against? Do you have a sideboard to change your deck to face certain matchups?
As far as sideboard, Apostle's Blessing can stop removal and recursion like Death Denied, Morbid Plunder can help too. Undying Evil and Unearth are also a good choices, which you already mentioned, but Unearth is better since it doesn't require a creature being in play to use.
As far as your other creature choices, Soulcage Fiend costs a good amount of mana and it'll die to the same removal all of your other creatures fall to, so he'll cost you 3 life. That means he just wasted more resources than Vault Skirge and, unless you lost all of your matches with your opponent at 3 life, the Fiend won't make a difference. Grim Roustabout can survive longer than other creatures, but unfortunately you have to play him on t4 to ensure he can survive a full turn to attack, otherwise any smart player will just kill it when you have no open mana to regen him.
I also wouldn't drop Victim of Night since it's solid removal and better than Dead Weight. If anything I would drop Dead Weight for Doom Blade or some other removal that'll work consistently throughout the game.
I also do not see how replacing a creature with a different type of creature will solve your problem of not drawing into more creatures. You still have the same chances of not drawing a creature. As we've said before Sign in Blood can help you dig into more creatures. Placebo Effect even mentioned he started using it in his last post and it has worked for him.
Ok thanks , but u see , when opp will destroy Soulcage Fiend it will do something (we both lose 3 lifes) , and btw. I can regenerate Grim Roustabout any time from graveyard? For example op kill it in my second turn , and i regenerate him in 3 rd turn?
And what do u think about Stab Wound?
Ah , and i was thinkin to throw out 2 bonesplitter for more creatures.
I was playing against MGA , Delver , UR (in this deck was a lot of card for 1 mana and doing 3 damage in my creature ;/) , and MB with sacrificion.
I get that Soulcage Fiend also affects your opponent, that's why I said he wouldn't make a difference unless you lost with your opponent at 3 life because if not he wouldn't make a difference. Plus there are ways around him like Pillar of Flame.
Also, regen doesn't work from the graveyard. You can only activate it if the creature is on the battlefield before it dies. That means Grim Roustabout still has the problems I mentioned before.
Stab Wound is worse than Dead Weight in my opinion. It costs too much mana. Sure it drains life, but if you play it for that reason then you leave a blocker on the field. I'd rather have cheap, reliable instants for my removal like Disfigure, Victim of Night, Doom Blade and Grasp of Darkness.
I'd test out 2 bonesplitters with some more creatures before you commit to the change. I understand the frustration of having Bonesplitters out but no creatures to equip it with, but it's still a great card.
And I think much of your problem has to do with not having a sideboard. A strong sideboard can help against most of the decks you lost to.
And i was thinking , maybe say bb to Highborn Ghoul and say hello to Renegade Demon? Cause u see in late i had so much empty useless mana ,so im thinking he could be nice ending slayer ;d.
Highborn Ghoul could be cut, but there are better choices than Renegade Demon. It doesn't matter how late in the game you play the Demon, he can easily die like your other creatures. Keeping him around for late game is counter active to your plans since you should win before it becomes relevant.
Hymn to Tourach is great against control/Delver as well as Duress so that can be changed, but Hymn does more for you IMO.
Apostle's Blessing also stops control from targeting your creatures and it can double as evasion for extra evasion in a pinch.
Death Denied helps in late game against control and even in some aggro matchups allowing you to use all your mana for a handful of threats!
Doom Blade/Geth's Verdict are there to add more removal against MGA and other aggro decks. Swap them with Dead Weight since the instant speed is better. Geth's Verdict is also great against Hexproof Auras.
Nihil Spellbomb will stop any decks that abuse the graveyard, but this depends greatly on your meta. This slot can be a flexible slot to add in an extra copy of any of the other suggestions.
OK thanks . but u see , i wrote Renegade Demon for late , cause then , i dont got any cards at hand , and its better to draw him not Dauthi horror
which is more easier to be destroyed. I was also thinking about Viscera Dragger what u think? But this demon got so ****ing great art
And if i would got Soulcage Fiend and Renegade Demon maybe i could use also Raving Oni-Slave?
And unless i'll draw Dark Ritual at hand , only in for example 3rd turn , i Could put demon into battle and save 1 mana for undying evil if opp would like to destroy him ;p
Cause when i was drawing Dark ritual in mid/late game it was also useless , now with demon it wouldnt ;]
I understood you meant to use the Demon in late game, that's why I said what I said. A great late game choice if you're stuck with that idea is Twisted Abomination It has really cheap Regen and you can cycle it away if you don't need it. Using Dark Ritual to cast Renegade Demon will still be a waste if the demon dies to a Lightning Bolt.
Raving Oni-Slave is kinda pointless. If you want to play him without losing life then you won't play him until turn 4 or later, destroying the point of MBA. If you play him before then you are losing a lot of life if he's killed.
Make whatever changes you want and see how it works in tournaments. I already gave all the advice I can.
The archetype you might be thinking of is Mono-Black Control (for which the primer is now noticeably absent, given the current online metagame). It attempts to stall the opponent's plan with lots of disruption and win in the later turns.
If this isn't quite what you had in mind, then you're probably thinking of some sort of Midrange strategy, which aims to use the higher end of the curve in order to have access to a better card quality, which can then outrace the opponent. This is a very hard strategy to pull off, and usually ends up being sub-par. I'm not saying that you couldn't build something that could possibly work, and I think Black might be a good place to do it, what with Dark Rituals and removal and stuff, but it probably won't be as consistently good as other streamlined strategies out there.
Not a fan of Duty-Bound Dead. Exalted is not so useful in black, where it just wasn't pushed enough to be playable. He's not the best first turn play, and his regen ability is expensive no matter how you look at it.
If you are running a more pump oriented build nightshade stinger could be a reasonable include, offering evasion that will make your auras and equipment better able to connect, it competes with vault skirge, but if you are pulling out as much suicide as possible it has uses. It is also a rogue which plays nicely with morsel theft.
If you are running a more pump oriented build nightshade stinger could be a reasonable include, offering evasion that will make your auras and equipment better able to connect, it competes with vault skirge, but if you are pulling out as much suicide as possible it has uses. It is also a rogue which plays nicely with morsel theft.
I'd rather have Vault Skirge. Vault Skirge almost always negates the suicide he brings and then some plus it can block. Now Nightshade Stinger could be ran alongside Vault Skirge if you are a fan of that first turn evasion, but there are some better choices for the deck. Child of Night can also help negate suicide effects, so instead of removing the suicide (which allows you to keep our heavy hitters) you just shrug it off.
I can't make up my mind about Sign in blood. To me, it does not seem as great it is supposed to be. However, as it is pauper stable in MBC, there must be something wrong in my thinking, maybe. So help me out!
How valuable is a single card advantage? In an early game, 2 mana for an extra card might cause you not to able to cast anything you draw with the sign in blood in the same turn, while you could have drawn something that you get instant use of, if you play something else in the place of sign in blood.
Obviously, it is a good card in later game, when you have more mana available and if you have no problems with your life total.
What would you suggest to replace them with in the current build I have?
Any other suggestions of what to replace with what? (I play so many carnophage and vampire lacerator for emotional reasons; I like to play them, so those are only 'must have' cards in the deck.)
Your deck looks pretty good already! You got the Rager, Barren Moor and Sign in Blood to keep fueling your hand. You have Hymn which adds card advantage too and is great disruption. Unearth is also a great choice since it adds some hand extension to your games. How has the deck performed so far? Is there something you don't like that's causing you to seek changes?
Sign in Blood is a Pauper staple and if you read through the thread you'll see that a lot of us think rather highly of it. As far as your feelings on Sign in Blood I think you're strategy with it needs to change. Playing it on turn 2 is a great choice for MBC since it gives you early advantage and it gives control much needed answers early on to be reactive and proactive in their plan. Aggro however needs to drop creatures early to close the game as fast as it can so using your second, third turn to play Sign in Blood isn't always the best choice (unless you mulled down to 4 or 5 cards and need to dig up creatures). Your going to want to have it to fill your hand after you've emptied it dropping creatures. With your list there's no need to hold back the early board pressure since you have Sign in Blood and Unearth to make sure you keep the board full.
Whoa whoa whoa.. I really (usually) hold my tongue very well against comments of this nature but this is complete hogwash. Dark Ritual is one of the best advantages in the game, I will quote and agree with what Darkninja107 said below me. If you can throw down two-three creatures turn one then on turn two equip a Bonesplitter where the hell is the disadvantage? If you can jump the gun on board presence then Sign in Blood yourself you are all set.
Wow...
W White Weenie
Sign in Blood on turn three then cast Dark Ritual to play what you drew.
W White Weenie
Sorry, I forgot to properly emphasize Dark Ritual's worst point and the real reason it is not worth running (rather than pointing out that its strong point isn't good enough): It's horrible once you drop your hand (usually turn 3-4) in my meta.
Dark Ritual is 4 cards that are good in your opening hand and completely horrible later. Yes, it gives you a large amount of extra burst if you have one in your opening hand... but far more often than not, you will NOT get the ideal draw of three 1-drop creatures+Dark Ritual+Swamp. The point is that the card is inconsistent, and in a meta where MBA will enter top-deck mode fairly often in contested games (due to control removing everything or people putting blockers up), you're often just drawing a dead card. It is objectively sub-optimal for the deck compared to additional threats. It's great when it's perfect... but Magic is not a game where you will always get that.
I realize that your local paper metas may differ significantly from mine (MTGO, competitive, leans heavily toward mid-range/control after Storm bannings), which would affect its viability, and I do apologize for giving the impression it's always a bad choice.
I do like your suggestion about Sign in Blood, though. The extra sustain should help for the very reasons that Dark Ritual fails. Vault Skirge is also worth a test, probably replacing Pulse Tracker.
Just play MBC if you want Gray Merchant; he fits best into that shell with his 5 CMC. Far too expensive for MBA; you could Dark Ritual to help... but the deck's manabase is meant for fast, cheap threats, not big spells.
You should take a look at Orzhov Control lists, too. They sound similar to what you're describing.
That happens some times, but sometimes it doesn't. If it was a problem for you and you think you can do fine without it, then go for it. My problem was Placebo Effect completely discrediting the card in an incorrect way, not that he didn't want to play it. I've played games with my Delver deck in which Daze wasn't in my opening hand and was a dead draw, but that doesn't mean I should drop it or tell people not to play it. You might play MBA and rarely get Vampire Lacerator in your opening had and only draw it when you're at low life and it's a dead draw, but would you completely drop it?
As XBM pointed out, Sign in Blood helps Dark Ritual be relevant throughout the game. Adding in a couple of Consume Spirits will help too. As your deck and Placebo Effect's deck stand you're gonna fall to efficient aggro and control since you are going to run out of steam. Sign in Blood is the best Card Advantage for black and Read the Bones is second (but too expensive for MBA) and Dark Ritual helps add early pressure to slip by MUC's counters or get in enough damage early to make Spot Removal an uphill battle.
How have your decks done so far? Am I incorrect in my assessments?
Sorry if it seems like I'm being overly negative, but Primers are supposed to help players learn and build the best decks of certain proven/established archetypes. That doesn't mean you have to build a deck a certain way and it's great to share ideas and showcase a variety of decks. We love it when discussions start about strategy and card choices, but to attempt to completely discredit the writer's advice is somewhat disrespectful to the OP. If you don't fully agree with some choices then that is fine, variety is the spice of life (and Magic) after all, but don't try and present your opinions as facts when they are counter active to the Primers advice.
Yes, I do see that I was wrong to push as hard as I did against Dark Ritual (I made another post since then, my apologies), especially since I am technically an online outsider where the metas are certainly different (there is no MBA online primer!).
Variety may be the spice of life, but there are objectively optimal and sub-optimal card choices given a certain meta.
My deck has had very favorable matchups so far against most of my meta:
MUC (with all the one-drops, it's pretty easy to play around counters, really. Bonesplitter + a couple unblockable creatures=easy game), Delver, Tron, Elves, various rogue decks like AzoriusKitty and Reality Acid.
Slivers is favorable as long as you remember to save your removal for the lords.
Hexproof and DelverFiend seem roughly even (unfavorable pre, very favorable postboard), Affinity (the Atog combo kind) is unfavorable at 60-40 or worse.
Sadly, it falls absolutely flat against MBC, which is itself a good 10-15% of the meta these days. I have lost 5 straight matches and barely won a 6th when he got mana-screwed both games (and seemed to be running a non-standard list that didn't focus on Gary). Removal and lifegain plus Guul Draz not having evasion is a tough mountain to climb.
Edit: For those reasons, the occasional Dimir control matchup is also pretty bad. It's been gaining popularity as well.
I understand that it hasn't worked out before. There's been times in which Dark Ritual hasn't worked for me, but it's good far outweighs the bad in my experience. But let's but that discussion to rest for now.
I get that you are coming from an Online point of view and don't have a Primer in the Online section, so I'm glad if this Primer helped you out. After a quick search through Pauper Dailies, I found that MBA wasn't included in the top Archetypes, so perhaps you found a lot of luck in the fact that it's a fringe deck that isn't expected. If it works in your meta then keep at it! Perhaps if you feel you have enough experience and knowledge with the deck you can write a Primer for the MTGO section.
Have you tried Apostle's Blessing in your Side Board against MBC? Perhaps that can help turn the tides in those matchups. Even some recursion like Death Denied or Morbid Plunder can do some work for you. Duress and Wrench Mind are good choices as well.
There's plenty of space for Sign in Blood. Most the sample lists in the Primer include it and my deck and I know of plenty of others that use it.
You can find space in your deck for it.
18 swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Tormented Soul
4 Vault Skirge
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Dauthi Slayer
4 Vampire's Bite
4 Victim of Night
4 Bump in the Night
^That's the deck you posted. You don't even need a full playset of Sign in Blood, 3 works fine. You could drop 1 Bonesplitter, 1 Vampire's Bite and 1 Bump in the Night. Or drop 2 Bumps and 1 Vampire's Bite or vice versa.
By the time you did all that you'd be running a very different deck that wouldn't fit in this Primer. You might as well take that to the main Paper Pauper section and get feedback and discussion from there.
The Primer section in any subforum is a collection of Primers about deck Archetypes. It describes types of decks and card choices and variants. For example, we have a Primer for White Weenie decks and a Primer Infect decks. It also supplies a section for posts pertaining to the Archetype to cut down on too many similar posts in the main subforum.
The main Paper Pauper section is for everything else. Discussions and posts about any decks without a Primer, new cards and strategies.
It isn't a hard concept to grasp, and we shouldn't just have one section for Pauper because if we did we would have nearly an entire page of Sticky's. Sub-forums are required to separate things such as primers so it keeps the overall forum appearance clean and neat.
If you don't know the difference between paper Pauper and the primers section here it is.
Within the paper Pauper / Peasant sub-forum you discuss creative deck ideas, cards, strategies and many more things. For established decks such as White Weenie you have a primer section dedicated to those who want to create and talk about that deck, all such discussions take place in there as-well rather then all over the sub-forum. You don't have a primer for a Pauper spider deck because that deck isn't an established deck so it is discussed outside of that section.
Now that will be all that I mention on the matter because this primer has effectively been derailed long enough. I suggest creating a new thread outside of this if you wish to continue the discussion further so the wrath of the moderators isn't invoked.
W White Weenie
I swapped out Bump in the Night for Sign in Blood, and it really has done wonders for me (thanks Darkninja, XBM for being patient with me!). Keeping the beaters coming is huge, particularly against control. I have a much more even matchup against MBC now. I've also been testing Altar's Reap as SB tech against control options; it works well in response to removal with the added bonus of countering Tendrils of Corruption lifegain.
Finally, I have to acknowledge that with SIB in there, Dark Ritual does do wonders for getting your guys out. I still don't run it in my meta, but my hand takes many more turns to empty now that I have an extra 2-drop that also refills my hand. Dark Ritual would speed that up significantly.
Glad it worked out! Card advantage is a very important of any deck and Sign in Blood is awesome for Black. One reason why I'm not a fan of running mono White or mono Red aggro is due to the lack of good card draws.
Great idea thinking of Altar's Reap against control. Instant speed drawing really puts in more work against those decks and you might as well get some use out of a creature if it's going to die anyway.
Renegade Demon is waay too high on the curve for MBA. It's not even that good as it has no evasion or any way to survive like Regen.
That deck is pretty interesting though. I like Deathgreeter as a wincon in the deck, but I'm pretty sure control can stop that deck in it's tracks.
Renegade Demon might work in that deck you linked, but as a card by itself it is horrible. No abilities, poor toughness and a high mana cost just make it laughable in Pauper.
That overall deck is very fragile as-well, it might be fun but it won't really put up a great fight. It almost reminds me of decks that played the Big Furry Monster, it sucked but damn it was fun.
W White Weenie
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My lame attempt at humor...
Why does everyone in Bant hate the Lord of Riots? 'Cause they're all, Rakdos-intolerant! Awwww, yeah...
What kind of decks did you play against? Do you have a sideboard to change your deck to face certain matchups?
As far as sideboard, Apostle's Blessing can stop removal and recursion like Death Denied, Morbid Plunder can help too. Undying Evil and Unearth are also a good choices, which you already mentioned, but Unearth is better since it doesn't require a creature being in play to use.
As far as your other creature choices, Soulcage Fiend costs a good amount of mana and it'll die to the same removal all of your other creatures fall to, so he'll cost you 3 life. That means he just wasted more resources than Vault Skirge and, unless you lost all of your matches with your opponent at 3 life, the Fiend won't make a difference. Grim Roustabout can survive longer than other creatures, but unfortunately you have to play him on t4 to ensure he can survive a full turn to attack, otherwise any smart player will just kill it when you have no open mana to regen him.
I also wouldn't drop Victim of Night since it's solid removal and better than Dead Weight. If anything I would drop Dead Weight for Doom Blade or some other removal that'll work consistently throughout the game.
I also do not see how replacing a creature with a different type of creature will solve your problem of not drawing into more creatures. You still have the same chances of not drawing a creature. As we've said before Sign in Blood can help you dig into more creatures. Placebo Effect even mentioned he started using it in his last post and it has worked for him.
I get that Soulcage Fiend also affects your opponent, that's why I said he wouldn't make a difference unless you lost with your opponent at 3 life because if not he wouldn't make a difference. Plus there are ways around him like Pillar of Flame.
Also, regen doesn't work from the graveyard. You can only activate it if the creature is on the battlefield before it dies. That means Grim Roustabout still has the problems I mentioned before.
Stab Wound is worse than Dead Weight in my opinion. It costs too much mana. Sure it drains life, but if you play it for that reason then you leave a blocker on the field. I'd rather have cheap, reliable instants for my removal like Disfigure, Victim of Night, Doom Blade and Grasp of Darkness.
I'd test out 2 bonesplitters with some more creatures before you commit to the change. I understand the frustration of having Bonesplitters out but no creatures to equip it with, but it's still a great card.
And I think much of your problem has to do with not having a sideboard. A strong sideboard can help against most of the decks you lost to.
Highborn Ghoul could be cut, but there are better choices than Renegade Demon. It doesn't matter how late in the game you play the Demon, he can easily die like your other creatures. Keeping him around for late game is counter active to your plans since you should win before it becomes relevant.
A good Sideboard would be:
3 Apostle's Blessing
1 Death Denied
3 Doom Blade
3 Geth's Verdict
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Hymn to Tourach is great against control/Delver as well as Duress so that can be changed, but Hymn does more for you IMO.
Apostle's Blessing also stops control from targeting your creatures and it can double as evasion for extra evasion in a pinch.
Death Denied helps in late game against control and even in some aggro matchups allowing you to use all your mana for a handful of threats!
Doom Blade/Geth's Verdict are there to add more removal against MGA and other aggro decks. Swap them with Dead Weight since the instant speed is better. Geth's Verdict is also great against Hexproof Auras.
Nihil Spellbomb will stop any decks that abuse the graveyard, but this depends greatly on your meta. This slot can be a flexible slot to add in an extra copy of any of the other suggestions.
I understood you meant to use the Demon in late game, that's why I said what I said. A great late game choice if you're stuck with that idea is Twisted Abomination It has really cheap Regen and you can cycle it away if you don't need it. Using Dark Ritual to cast Renegade Demon will still be a waste if the demon dies to a Lightning Bolt.
Raving Oni-Slave is kinda pointless. If you want to play him without losing life then you won't play him until turn 4 or later, destroying the point of MBA. If you play him before then you are losing a lot of life if he's killed.
Make whatever changes you want and see how it works in tournaments. I already gave all the advice I can.
If this isn't quite what you had in mind, then you're probably thinking of some sort of Midrange strategy, which aims to use the higher end of the curve in order to have access to a better card quality, which can then outrace the opponent. This is a very hard strategy to pull off, and usually ends up being sub-par. I'm not saying that you couldn't build something that could possibly work, and I think Black might be a good place to do it, what with Dark Rituals and removal and stuff, but it probably won't be as consistently good as other streamlined strategies out there.
Not a fan of Duty-Bound Dead. Exalted is not so useful in black, where it just wasn't pushed enough to be playable. He's not the best first turn play, and his regen ability is expensive no matter how you look at it.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I'd rather have Vault Skirge. Vault Skirge almost always negates the suicide he brings and then some plus it can block. Now Nightshade Stinger could be ran alongside Vault Skirge if you are a fan of that first turn evasion, but there are some better choices for the deck. Child of Night can also help negate suicide effects, so instead of removing the suicide (which allows you to keep our heavy hitters) you just shrug it off.
Your deck looks pretty good already! You got the Rager, Barren Moor and Sign in Blood to keep fueling your hand. You have Hymn which adds card advantage too and is great disruption. Unearth is also a great choice since it adds some hand extension to your games. How has the deck performed so far? Is there something you don't like that's causing you to seek changes?
Sign in Blood is a Pauper staple and if you read through the thread you'll see that a lot of us think rather highly of it. As far as your feelings on Sign in Blood I think you're strategy with it needs to change. Playing it on turn 2 is a great choice for MBC since it gives you early advantage and it gives control much needed answers early on to be reactive and proactive in their plan. Aggro however needs to drop creatures early to close the game as fast as it can so using your second, third turn to play Sign in Blood isn't always the best choice (unless you mulled down to 4 or 5 cards and need to dig up creatures). Your going to want to have it to fill your hand after you've emptied it dropping creatures. With your list there's no need to hold back the early board pressure since you have Sign in Blood and Unearth to make sure you keep the board full.