Hey guys, last saturday i played a pauper tournament with my white winnie deck in my local shop and won the first place :). The tournament had 20 players and very good decks like 8post, Mono Black Control, Burn and MUC.
I searched threw every single common white card and have come up with a list of some older cards that may prove useful in some or all situations. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Wordmail - Pretty straight forward what it does, in most cases it is at least a +2+2 and in the case of Guardian of the Guildpact it is a +4+4 for one mana that is permanent. If your playgroup allows it I think it should be used.
Stand Firm - Pump and Scry. White needs more draw and deck fixing so this might be useful in some versions of the deck.
Wordmail - Pretty straight forward what it does, in most cases it is at least a +2+2 and in the case of Guardian of the Guildpact it is a +4+4 for one mana that is permanent. If your playgroup allows it I think it should be used.
Seems like a good choice if it is allowed. Although it won't work on Guardian of the Guildpact since Wordmail is monocolored.
I think this is a great card for sideboards. Definitely help against any board wipes or against decks packing lots of removal. And using this to bring back more Standard Bearers would make some people rage!
Niveous Wisps - One mana for a tap and draw, possibly good.
A decent common cantrip for White! Tapping down a creature could really turn the game around in some situations and drawing is just great. I'd run it just for the draw!
This is pretty good. I actually saw this in an old collection a friend gave me and thought a bit on it. The potential to be free is tempting, but I feel Hyena Umbra is strictly better. Hyena Umbra pumps, gives first strike and has Totem Armor! For the low price of one mana!
Asha's Favor - Maybe? It is costly but the benefits are nice.
Not sure what to think on this one. It seems to give you a lot for 3 mana, but it is a bit higher on the curve. This needs some testing for sure.
It's great that you were able to dig up some fresh cards to look at for this primer! I haven't seen some of these cards before so thank you for bringing them to light!
Well I felt things were getting a bit stale so it needed some digging up. That breaks my heart about Guardian of the Guildpact, he is one of my favorite cards and I can't believe I overlooked the protect I so love lol.
After years of listening to my bf talking about mtg, i decided to finally start playing myself. He suggested to start with a pauper primer, and he picked Pestilence. Now i am thinking to start with the White Weenie 'total package'.
I don't mind losing over and over again, but i hope i'll lose because of my crappy playing style, and not because a poor deck choice. So would White Weenie be the way to go? It's going to be my first deck ever
Since you are just getting into Magic the suggestion of Pauper is valid as it will introduce you to the game without overwhelming you with a large card pool.
I am a big proponent of both Pauper and White Weenie, though many decks are competitive I personally feel that White Weenie will be an overall more versatile deck. I have played Pauper competitively and most often my "Total Package" version of White Weenie at several tournaments in the Bay Area here in CA. I've won first place and many top three spots time and time again. Just as I wrote it allows you to deal with nearly every threat, so it will introduce you into what works against what, and how to sideboard.
In case you didn't know how to properly sideboard cards here is an example. In the "Total Package" deck you have two Unmakes, that card cost three mana and removes a single creature from the game. Normally this is the single best removal card in Pauper, but in this example it isn't. Now if you are facing an artifact deck such as Affinity, then you would remove Unmake and replace it with Dust to Dust. It costs the same amount of mana, but it removes twice as many creatures because they are all artifacts.
If you need any advice on how to play it, or general questions and combos feel free to ask as I am not sure of your level of knowledge.
Dust to Dust would actually work fairly well against my Pestilence deck too.
What do you think of Guardians' Pledge? I think it could be a relevant card against slower decks, which could be used in the place Prismatic Strands, as it can still deal with similar combat situations and yet deal massive amounts of damage to finish the game more quickly. The only disadvantage I see is that it doesn't have flashback.
Dust to Dust would actually work fairly well against my Pestilence deck too.
What do you think of Guardians' Pledge? I think it could be a relevant card against slower decks, which could be used in the place Prismatic Strands, as it can still deal with similar combat situations and yet deal massive amounts of damage to finish the game more quickly. The only disadvantage I see is that it doesn't have flashback.
I actually really like that card, maybe you can come up with an aggro version of White Weenie?
I've used it before in an older version of my White Weenie deck, it was more of a developing version of White Weenie.
The card was perfect for tribal soldiers too. In the right soldier deck and if you run Lotus Petal you can do some serious damage quickly.
More of a "weenie" feel to it than your creations, aiming to get more creatures in the air and finish the game with the Overrun of White, which can also surprise your opponents into unfavorable blocks or attacks. I thought 20 lands was too few, so I went up one, but I think an ideal number would be 22.
Ahh War Falcon. I've seen a few people running him at my shop with some success. I think his soldier/knight only issue scared off some players but for one mana and the right deck he is almost a free turn two hit. Lotus Petal him with a soldier and you are very well setup.
I really like him actually, and I think he shouldn't be relegated to only soldier WW. There are enough soldier/knights in almost any WW deck to fit in.
I really like him actually, and I think he shouldn't be relegated to only soldier WW. There are enough soldier/knights in almost any WW deck to fit in.
The only thing I can think of is how are you going to push through to get the lethal blow? That is the problem with my current Soul Sister deck, it gains lots of life and slowly grinds away. But put anything nasty in front of it and it crumbles.
Loyal Cathar is a great card, though I don't have room for him. Many people run with him literally all the time. They swear by him as if he was a Guardian of the Guildpact lol.
I suppose that by having some recursive creatures that are slightly beefy and adding some combat tricks, the deck could push some damage through.
Maybe 12 sisters is too many? If you're gaining more life than you need, but can't win, maybe you have too much life gain and need to readjust the numbers a bit!
I suppose that by having some recursive creatures that are slightly beefy and adding some combat tricks, the deck could push some damage through.
Maybe 12 sisters is too many? If you're gaining more life than you need, but can't win, maybe you have too much life gain and need to readjust the numbers a bit!
At the end of it all I bumped the deck to Peasant and added Ajani's Pridemate and called it a day.
Regarding Renewed Faith, most of the time people tend to run a recurring life gain such as Suture Priest so a life gain card in most cases isn't aren't their radar. As for the cycling ability I don't really find it useful. Mostly because White Weenie focuses on cheap and efficient creatures and spells. If perhaps I had dead cards in my hand I would find it useful but the entire strategy behind White Weenie is to make everything playable at every single moment.
Gempalm Avenger I can only see use in a soldier deck, not White Weenie. If you check my soldier primer HERE you will see most of the options already have first strike in addition to if I wanted to pay three mana for a pump I could just use Guardians' Pledge.
Marshaling Cry I will give a nod and actually say it would find use in an aggro version of White Weenie or a tribal soldier deck, but not because of the cycling.
Unfortunately, it doesn't have a relevant creature type, but two power in the air at 1 mana seems like a really good deal. I can't tell whether that or War Falcon are a better pick. What do you think?
Unfortunately, it doesn't have a relevant creature type, but two power in the air at 1 mana seems like a really good deal. I can't tell whether that or War Falcon are a better pick. What do you think?
I saw that too and thought on it a bit. It's a horrible card IMO, especially in a mono white deck that doesn't have Haste creatures. Loyal Pegasus is a bad first turn play since he won't be able to attack until turn 3 at least. War Falcon can at least attack turn 2. I also think on the fact that I don't use Mogg Flunkies in a deck since the attack/block clause can shoot you in the foot against removal.
Unfortunately, it doesn't have a relevant creature type, but two power in the air at 1 mana seems like a really good deal. I can't tell whether that or War Falcon are a better pick. What do you think?
The only way I think I could find him viable is if you put him into a WR deck to make use of the haste ability. I honestly don't really like him though, War Falcon is the clear winner here.
Little offtop
Why this archetyp is called White Weenie? Not Mw aggro?
It is called White Weenie because it employs small white creatures with several abilities (not always meant for speed). An example would be Standard Bearer. This is one of the best Pauper creatures hands down, no disputing it, but aggro it is not. Another example is Benevolent Bodyguard, not aggro but once again one of the best creatures around.
If you want a Mono-W aggro deck you are best of going with tribal soldiers.
War Falcon works out really well. I have never had a game where he can't attack, because I'll always have a knight or soldier to drop the next turn for him.
Standard Bearer and Prismatic Strands and GoG were all in the MTGO forum's initial decks, but they've been fine-tuning the deck constantly, and they ended up with something like the deck I posted, where all the cards are low-cost. It's interesting that this thread and the other thread have started with the same idea and ended up with such different decks.
I find it interesting that they've fine tuned it to have less resilient creatures but instead just cheap ones. Do you play conservatively so if you lose guys to a board wipe then you just keep dropping your hand of low cost creatures? Or do you dump your hand and hope to win before other decks can stabilize?
Loyal Cathar is definitely great against most control since it comes back if it dies. The flip side even dodges Doom Blades and Victim of Night which are the two MBC staples.
I'm not too surprised that the MTGO decklist is different than ours. MTGO has a very different meta than paper.
I've been play testing both of these decks some more, and I am more satisfied with the traditional paper deck's performance. The MTGO online comes out very strong, but it ends up not being able to finish opponents because its weak creatures fade out so quickly. The paper decks have just enough control to let them weather the storm and finish strong with cards like GoG.
A standard White Weenie deck uses Dust to Dust, Kor Sanctifiers, Sunlance and a few other choice cards in its sideboard. I am not a big fan of Divine Offering and I personally would replace it with Dust to Dust, but then again I also run Suture Priest which I am kind of surprised that you aren't.
W White Weenie
I searched threw every single common white card and have come up with a list of some older cards that may prove useful in some or all situations. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Wordmail - Pretty straight forward what it does, in most cases it is at least a +2+2 and in the case of Guardian of the Guildpact it is a +4+4 for one mana that is permanent. If your playgroup allows it I think it should be used.
Stand Firm - Pump and Scry. White needs more draw and deck fixing so this might be useful in some versions of the deck.
Reinforcements - I don't know about this one, thoughts?
Niveous Wisps - One mana for a tap and draw, possibly good.
Lashknife - potentially free first strike. Maybe?
Hyena Umbra - An overlooked gem I think.
Deathward - I really like this card, for only a single mana it can really turn the tides.
Asha's Favor - Maybe? It is costly but the benefits are nice.
W White Weenie
Seems like a good choice if it is allowed. Although it won't work on Guardian of the Guildpact since Wordmail is monocolored.
I think this should be tested further! The Scry seems like something that could really help White Weenie.
I think this is a great card for sideboards. Definitely help against any board wipes or against decks packing lots of removal. And using this to bring back more Standard Bearers would make some people rage!
A decent common cantrip for White! Tapping down a creature could really turn the game around in some situations and drawing is just great. I'd run it just for the draw!
This is pretty good. I actually saw this in an old collection a friend gave me and thought a bit on it. The potential to be free is tempting, but I feel Hyena Umbra is strictly better. Hyena Umbra pumps, gives first strike and has Totem Armor! For the low price of one mana!
Definitely a gem! I would probably run this in my deck if I tried my hand at White Weenie.
Seems good. This would probably need some more testing. More of a sideboard card, but I could see running a couple in the main deck.
Not sure what to think on this one. It seems to give you a lot for 3 mana, but it is a bit higher on the curve. This needs some testing for sure.
It's great that you were able to dig up some fresh cards to look at for this primer! I haven't seen some of these cards before so thank you for bringing them to light!
W White Weenie
Since you are just getting into Magic the suggestion of Pauper is valid as it will introduce you to the game without overwhelming you with a large card pool.
I am a big proponent of both Pauper and White Weenie, though many decks are competitive I personally feel that White Weenie will be an overall more versatile deck. I have played Pauper competitively and most often my "Total Package" version of White Weenie at several tournaments in the Bay Area here in CA. I've won first place and many top three spots time and time again. Just as I wrote it allows you to deal with nearly every threat, so it will introduce you into what works against what, and how to sideboard.
In case you didn't know how to properly sideboard cards here is an example. In the "Total Package" deck you have two Unmakes, that card cost three mana and removes a single creature from the game. Normally this is the single best removal card in Pauper, but in this example it isn't. Now if you are facing an artifact deck such as Affinity, then you would remove Unmake and replace it with Dust to Dust. It costs the same amount of mana, but it removes twice as many creatures because they are all artifacts.
If you need any advice on how to play it, or general questions and combos feel free to ask as I am not sure of your level of knowledge.
Sample combo: Standard Bearer + Inviolability = Invincible creature aside from removal.
W White Weenie
What do you think of Guardians' Pledge? I think it could be a relevant card against slower decks, which could be used in the place Prismatic Strands, as it can still deal with similar combat situations and yet deal massive amounts of damage to finish the game more quickly. The only disadvantage I see is that it doesn't have flashback.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I actually really like that card, maybe you can come up with an aggro version of White Weenie?
I've used it before in an older version of my White Weenie deck, it was more of a developing version of White Weenie.
The card was perfect for tribal soldiers too. In the right soldier deck and if you run Lotus Petal you can do some serious damage quickly.
W White Weenie
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Icatian Javelineers
4 Kor Skyfisher
2 War Falcon
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Standard Bearer
3 Suture Priest
3 Bonesplitter
3 Journey to Nowhere
4 Guardians' Pledge
2 Unmake
19 Plains
2 Secluded Steppe
More of a "weenie" feel to it than your creations, aiming to get more creatures in the air and finish the game with the Overrun of White, which can also surprise your opponents into unfavorable blocks or attacks. I thought 20 lands was too few, so I went up one, but I think an ideal number would be 22.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
What do you think about this?
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Icatian Javelineers
3 War Falcon
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Standard Bearer
3 Suture Priest
4 Lotus Petal
3 Bonesplitter
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Guardians' Pledge
2 Unmake
20 Plains
W White Weenie
I also like Loyal Cathar. What do you think of a shell with Loyal Cathar, Doomed Traveler, Kor Skyfisher, Whitemane Lion and 12 Soul Sisters? Could be a recursive aggro shell that gains tons of life.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
The only thing I can think of is how are you going to push through to get the lethal blow? That is the problem with my current Soul Sister deck, it gains lots of life and slowly grinds away. But put anything nasty in front of it and it crumbles.
Loyal Cathar is a great card, though I don't have room for him. Many people run with him literally all the time. They swear by him as if he was a Guardian of the Guildpact lol.
W White Weenie
Maybe 12 sisters is too many? If you're gaining more life than you need, but can't win, maybe you have too much life gain and need to readjust the numbers a bit!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
At the end of it all I bumped the deck to Peasant and added Ajani's Pridemate and called it a day.
W White Weenie
Other cycling cards that could be used are gempalm avenger and marshaling cry.
Any thoughts?
Regarding Renewed Faith, most of the time people tend to run a recurring life gain such as Suture Priest so a life gain card in most cases isn't aren't their radar. As for the cycling ability I don't really find it useful. Mostly because White Weenie focuses on cheap and efficient creatures and spells. If perhaps I had dead cards in my hand I would find it useful but the entire strategy behind White Weenie is to make everything playable at every single moment.
Gempalm Avenger I can only see use in a soldier deck, not White Weenie. If you check my soldier primer HERE you will see most of the options already have first strike in addition to if I wanted to pay three mana for a pump I could just use Guardians' Pledge.
Marshaling Cry I will give a nod and actually say it would find use in an aggro version of White Weenie or a tribal soldier deck, but not because of the cycling.
W White Weenie
Loyal Pegasus
Unfortunately, it doesn't have a relevant creature type, but two power in the air at 1 mana seems like a really good deal. I can't tell whether that or War Falcon are a better pick. What do you think?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I saw that too and thought on it a bit. It's a horrible card IMO, especially in a mono white deck that doesn't have Haste creatures. Loyal Pegasus is a bad first turn play since he won't be able to attack until turn 3 at least. War Falcon can at least attack turn 2. I also think on the fact that I don't use Mogg Flunkies in a deck since the attack/block clause can shoot you in the foot against removal.
The only way I think I could find him viable is if you put him into a WR deck to make use of the haste ability. I honestly don't really like him though, War Falcon is the clear winner here.
W White Weenie
It is called White Weenie because it employs small white creatures with several abilities (not always meant for speed). An example would be Standard Bearer. This is one of the best Pauper creatures hands down, no disputing it, but aggro it is not. Another example is Benevolent Bodyguard, not aggro but once again one of the best creatures around.
If you want a Mono-W aggro deck you are best of going with tribal soldiers.
W White Weenie
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Icatian Javelineer
4 War Falcon
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Loyal Cathar
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Leonin Skyhunter
2 Lone Missionary
3 Ramosian Rally
3 Sunlance
4 Bonesplitters
How do you guys feel about decks like this that have shifted away from some of the bigger drops like GoG?
How has War Falcon been working out? He does have a lot of buddies to fight with him, but has it been consistent?
I'd definitely use Standard Bearer somewhere in this list to really hurt control. Prismatic Strands might also be worth it if Electrickery is a problem.
I'm not sure if dropping GoG is worth it. He's a big problem in the format and can hold equipment well.
Standard Bearer and Prismatic Strands and GoG were all in the MTGO forum's initial decks, but they've been fine-tuning the deck constantly, and they ended up with something like the deck I posted, where all the cards are low-cost. It's interesting that this thread and the other thread have started with the same idea and ended up with such different decks.
Loyal Cathar is definitely great against most control since it comes back if it dies. The flip side even dodges Doom Blades and Victim of Night which are the two MBC staples.
I'm not too surprised that the MTGO decklist is different than ours. MTGO has a very different meta than paper.