I'm glad to see this thread is still getting a lot of attention! It's definitely an interesting archetype.
It's really unfortunate that Crown-Hunter Hireling isn't legal online. It's such a great source of card advantage for red...
I think the radiant fountain is a great idea! It's certainly a significant amount of lifegain.
Tanglebloom is from a bygone era where Pristine Talisman didn't exist. I don't think there's a reason to run it anymore.
Flame Jet seems like a decent inclusion, though it's not card advantage.
I remember having good results beating burn by "going big" with my own burn spells in the sideboard. Talisman and Fountain will certainly make that matchup even easier.
I also like Avarax. There's something to be said about this card and the card advantage it creates. In the late game, being able to chain out hasty threats for several turns is relevant, not to mention its expensive firebreathing gets better with all our mana.
Thermo-Alchemist also hits a few important points. It hits as hard or harder than Curse of the Pierced Heart, it's cheap, and it has a pretty big butt for blocking and surviving some types of removal.
At this point I've actually dropped Skred entirely so I'm at 13 Mountains 4 Caves 4 Quicksand. I'm also up to 4 Talisman because that card has been consistently good against basically everything. Tanglebloom is still staying in there anyways, but I might make it into Radiant Fountains. I still have yet to draw it against burn. List again: https://deckbox.org/sets/1919265
Flame Jet seems unplayable. I don't think Cycling would add more to the card than Incinterate would. Players only is a no-go.
Avarax seems like it would be good at grinding card advantage (especially without the Crown-Hunter Hirelings) but I think I'm going to stick with Beetleback Chief for now at least. Costing one less in a "21" land deck is a real advantage. I think I'll get around to trying it at some point though.
Mind Stone seems like it would be fine, but I think I'd still rather have Pristine Talisman. Gaining 1 a turn is better than a card often enough.
Alchemist does block and does provide a fast clock, but it dies to everything that isn't Firebolt. I don't think I'd want to play it. Right now their best removal targets are Martyr of Ashes and Beetleback Chief, neither of which feel great to kill.
Mono U Delver is a nasty awful grindfest. Game one is very very favorable, but games 2-3 I have trouble getting Curse to stick when they're running a million cantrips, counterspells, and Hydroblasts to remove it after it resolves. They get more, cheaper counterspells and Stormbound Giest... it's just not a fun g2-3, but still winnable. Any good suggestions? Just max Pyroblast and pray?
If I could slot some sideboard cards into the deck, I'd definitely want 2 more Martyr of Ashes so I would have more of a prayer against Heroic and Bogles (despite being 2-0 against Heroic and 1-0 against Bogles). I haven't played against the Tron control decks yet so I don't know what that matchup feels like. I might cut the Molten Rains until then. I'm in a similar spot against Affinity and Gorilla Shaman. I'll find out how much I need my cards when I finally get the matchups I added the cards for. So basically I haven't seen a majority of my sideboard in any games, but my 19 card sideboard would be 3 Electrickery 4 Molten Rain 4 Pyroblast 4 Tanglebloom 2 Martyr of Ashes 4 Gorilla Shaman.
Well I just lost my first match with the deck against BUG Land Destruction. Record falls to 23-1. I still haven't played against Burn or Affinity though, so I'm still waiting for more sideboard info. I suspect the sideboard Tangleblooms will become Radiant Fountains, but I'm not 100% sure until I get to test against burn. This deck is so much fun! Only change I've made since is -1 Electrickery +1 Martyr of Ashes in the sideboard.
EDIT 2/27: Finally got in a match against Affinity. The matchup felt way better than I was expecting, got a clean 2-0. I think dropping a Shaman for another Martyr is a good option, since it's relevant in more matchups as well as Affinity. It's also possible I start using the slots for Burn hate (which I still have yet to see in nearly 35 matches/games). Current record: 26-2-3 in matches, 4-3 in single games. I may end up purchasing this on MTGO at some point because I think it's a lot of fun.
EDIT 3/21: I got in a couple matches vs Burn (3-0), Tireless Tribe (2-0), Affinity (3-1), Heroic (5-1), Bogles (3-0), UB Control (1-1-1), Mono Green Land Destruction (0-1) Sultai Land Destruction (0-2) since the last time I posted. Only major changes have been adding a 3rd Martyr Maindeck over a Fissure, and a Brimstone Volley over a Staggershock and an Arc Lightning. Affinity I think isn't a great matchup, but it's winnable because Mox Monkey is good. Heroic and Bogles have been surprisingly manageable. I'm still confident burn is a terrible matchup, despite not losing. After playing a bit more, I think I'm going to try 2 Radiant Fountain over 2 Quicksand, and 2 Rakdos Carnarium over 2 Mountains.
I'm constantly amazed at how well this is performing. I'm taking it to a big in-paper pauper tournament locally and if I win I figure I'll buy into MTGO with it.
Been forever since I posted. I got second in that tournament, losing only to TortEx in the Swiss, and only losing to the same TortEx player in the finals. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/942594#paper this list, just -1 Molten Rain +1 Tanglebloom in the sideboard. There were around 35 players.
Perhaps more importantly, I got my first 5-0 on MTGO! My decklist should be published next week. It's the exact list I linked above. Beat Elves 2-0 easily, Tron 2-1 because I got lucky, R/G Aggro 2-1 because he dropped 9 power turn 3 when I had 2 lands and couldn't find a third. Sitting too passively on my Martyr of Ashes to find the third land ended up getting me. Easy wins the rest of the time, although 4x Sprout Swarm was scary. Beat Stompy 2-1 because 8 power turn 2 (which I cleared with a Martyr of Ashes) into Silhana Ledgewalker --> 2x Elephant Guide is nearly impossible to beat without a Martyr already in play. Beat U/R Kiln Fiend 2-1 round 5 to seal up the win. Lost g1 because 3 Cyclops and 3 Kiln Fiend was rough. 3rd Clops got me.
That was my second league with the deck. My brother played it to two 3-2s and my first league was a 1-4.
Anyway, decklist feels really good. I want to try Serrated Arrows over an Arc Lightning one of these days, and might try out Brimstone Volley again.
Congratulations micah1! It's so great to see you getting such excellent results with the deck!
Do you think Pristine Talisman would be better than Tanglebloom? Gaining life without the stack has been important in some scenarios, and ramping with this deck is actually relevant. Is it the mana cost that is making you steer towards Tanglebloom?
I'll have to pick up your deck and give it a spin!
EDIT: Derp, didn't notice there is already a playset of talismans in the maindeck. Good stuff!
After playing the matchup several times, Tanglebloom is better. Every point matters, and if you're not activating Tanglebloom with your mana it's probably because you need your mana to clear the board or kill your opponent. You're generally not needing a ton of mana in the matchup so as long as you don't get bogged down with multiple you should be ok.
Note, just played another league and went 1-4 with a number of game losing punts and a very very close match against UR Delver.
I've been testing this deck out online and have been having a blast. My friend caught me playing and asked why I was playing Tanglebloom... I told him it was the best lifegain we could do outside of Talisman. He said: "What about Luxa River Shrine?"
What do you think? The initial cost is much steeper for the same ability, but being able to transition to 2 life a turn for no mana investment seems like a huge upgrade that is worth it. Thoughts?
Also, this deck is miserable to play against MBC...
River Shrine is awful. You can't gain life till turn 4. That's one that definitely comes up though.
MBC is miserable? I thought it was a pretty easy matchup! All their value dudes are 2/2s so you can Staggershock them and Firebolt them, and Gary dies to Flame Slash. Admittedly, Gurmag Angler sucks to deal with, but only 2 in most lists makes things easier. At least they've got lots of dead removal!
Also, how have you been doing, record wise? I've actually quit playing it because my record with the deck was 1-4, 5-0, 1-4, 1-4, 2-3, 0-5. I admittedly lost a good bit to myself, but sometimes lines are hard to see.
I just can't kill the MBC player, honestly. They gain so much life off Tendrils of Corruption and Garys, while drawing double off of a Thorn of the Black Rose without me being able to stop them. I know I can respond to Tendrils with more removal, but that isn't always possible and often they are the ones responding to my removal by killing their creature. We only have so much instant-speed removal. Eventually they can pull off a combo of Merchants and Crypt Rats that deals 30+ damage over just a few turns and kill me. Not to mention that post-board things get even worse as my hand gets picked apart by Wrench Mind and Duress.
Overall I've been pretty even record-wise. It's nice not losing to Delver, though.
I'm going to test out River Shrine for a while and see how effective or janky it is.
Well, I'm glad at least someone else is doing ok with it.
Keep your life total high enough that Corrupt isn't an issue and try to land some Curses. It's work well for me so far, haven't lost a game in like 4 matches against MBC. Also, allowing Tendrils is its own problem. Kill your creature or their creature in response to the Tendrils and they won't gain the life.
You can follow my progress with this deck, if you're interested. It's been a blast in the Tournament practice room so far, an I'll be taking it through a couuple leagues soon.
I had a lot of great suggestions for comments on Youtube. After only two games, Flurry of Horns already feels much more useful in the deck than Beetleback Chief. You lose out on a body, but you can attack right away and having 3 toughness is super relevant in terms of surviving combat and a lot of the removal in Pauper. I think this might be the finisher this deck needed on top of the curses.
I'm going to be trying out the bounce lands. They are there mostly to buff the mana base, making it easier to get to 3 mana and occasionally buying back a Forgotten Cave we played in the early game.
Luxa River Shrine is still on the watch list, but so far it's been doing an ok job. My only issue so far is that in certain games, I won before it ever became relevant. I guess that's not really a problem, though.
I've kept Skred to handle big creatures. Arc Lightning is probably one of my favorite cards to draw! It never feels wasted since you can make every point of damage count! I started using Searing Blaze over Lightning Bolt for the extra value, but I might switch back after some more games.
Currently I am testing out 2 Guardian Idols in place of 2 Firebolts. The extra mana is pretty good, but the repeatable damage has been useful in a few games! Not sure if I'm sold on it quite yet, but I'll keep trying it.
that's my list atm. I'm loving lightning shrieker as a repeatable lava axe that dodges removal. Great for closing out games. Other than that the one of fissure in main and SB is really great for any stray Gurmag Angler or Fangren Marauder
The deck doesn't play very quickly, so I'm not sure Lightning Shrieker is the best of options as a repeatable Lava Axe. It's possible its a good enough of a damage boost to be worthwhile though. My only big thoughts are, well, the deviations from my list. Hordeling Outburst is okay I guess, but the 3 drop is already rather crowded, part of why I elected for Beetleback Chief. The other options, which may be better but I haven't tested, iare Flurry of Horns or Avarax. I've played a little with Avarax but it wasn't my favorite. Other thought is how awkward Fire at Will is. It can't go face when you're trying to close out the game, it requires RRR when you're playing 4 colorless lands and only 17 red sources... I think it's much better to just play Arc Lightning if you want the split damage effect, unless you're seeing a lot of Guardian of the Guildpact.
Due to the swarms of UB Delver, I suspect now is the time to play 21+ Snow Mountains and Skred, because Gurmag is a real pain, and UB Delver is really popular. Haven't played on MTGO in a while, might be time to give it a spin and some testing again.
@upkeep @DarkNinja, dunno if you'll read this, but how did Flurry of Horns and Guardian Idol turn out for you two? Had Skred been consistently big enough to kill things? And how was Radiant Fountain?
I think Flurry of Horns is definitely a great option for a finisher. 3 toughness and haste is huge for cleaning things up quickly. I've rarely been disappointed with it.
The biggest improvement to the deck was definitely Rakdos Carnarium. I started mulliganing a lot less thanks to these lands making extra land drops for free. I'm confident this change boosted my win-rate significantly.
Luxa River Shrine has had some good moments, but overall was just a bit slow for the Burn Matchup. I don't think I can recommend it to anyone, but I do think we need to find good, consistent sources of lifegain. Note that Burn now plays way more creatures than ever before, making it more susceptible to our strategy.
I agree with @micah1 on what he said about your list. Have you had a chance to test it in the meta? How does it feel to you?
@micah1 Guardian Idol was actually really good in most match ups! The ramp helped a lot plus the extra reach in damage worked in a fair amount of games. The only issue is Pristine Talisman competes for that slot since they both start working turn 3 and ramp. Talisman works better in the meta since Burn is big now, so that won over Idol.
Skred also manages to help against Anglers and Fissure is good as a single copy to help there too even though it costs a lot.
Watching Upkeep's channel (which I try to do every weekday when he updates) when he ran his list showed that Flurry of Horns is a great inclusion for the deck! There were rarely any moments when it wasn't a welcome draw.
@micah1 you were mainly right about the variations that my list contained; I cut fire at will and lightning shrieker is probablt coming back out for flurry which I was testing as a replacement. otherwise, I'm sticking with outburst for now. Beetleback chief has been pretty clunky for me in past and I have found that outburst just serves me a bit better in the matchups with lots of removal because it feels like less of a blowout when they have an answer or a counterspell.
I'm gonna get my snow lands together and test skred in the coming weeks.
Hey all, thanks for the updates, and sorry for the slow response. @Upkeep Rakdos Carnarium was something I had been looking at as well. I saw some of your more recent lists were using it. What's your mana looking like at the moment?
Agreed. Also what are we thinking in the way of skred? If we play carnarium and skred it might be time to start cutting quicksand(s) no? And how many carnariums was a good number for you guys?
Also, with burning prophet potentially improving our draws I will be testing a second thunderous wrath tomorrow at pauper league.
If you play Skred, you should definitely not be on Quicksands. It's debatable if you should be on anything *except* Snow Mountains, which is why I've been skeptical of trying it again. I also don't think that Burning Prophet is remotely playable in the deck. It's not a sturdy card, it's not a great clock, and the Scry, although nice, is attached to too small of a body. Maybe as an X/4... if it ends up being fantastic for you guys, make sure you let me know.
For those who have tried it more than me, how has Radiant Fountain been?
So I played a pauper (paper) event this weekend with burning prophet and she actually played quite well. She will require more testing but overall she was good early game pressure and value while not being dead late game. She never lasted long enough to be a "closer" but she almost always triggered at least twice before she ate a removal spell.
In general having creatures is bad because blanking removal is one of the strong points of this deck so maybe prophet doesn't deserve a major spot in the main but I'm currently playing 3 and it feels pretty good.
Not currently on skred. I played a few casual games with it and I pretty rarely was able to get real value out of it where I wouldn't have preferred flame slash or another spell.I also missed carnariums which I currently have 4 of in the main. Really liking the four carnariums. I never felt punished by them and they almost always helped out a mana tight hand when I got them.
This is the list I fielded at pauper (paper) this weekend
Went 30 against BW Edge of the Divinity , Golgari Aristocrats, and Elves
Edge was tough and I had to fight back from like 2 life game 1, he got to like 48 life and I beat him down with 4 minotaurs.
Game 2 he got there like turn 4 and I had no chance
Game 3 he just didn't get enough gas and I got ahead and won with 3 prophets on board
Aristocrats was pretty easy, with the number of 2 for 1s in the deck, I just kept him off of his resources and he ended up with a 1/1 carrion feeder both games
Elves is pretty much an auto win, I just kept him off his one drops and he didn't have any gas for his better creatures in the matchup.
I'm taking burning prophet down to a 3 of and not sure what to add it to but arc lightning was better than usual so maybe a fourth there. Otherwise, I'm going to go back to 4 firebolt. I would just cut prophet games 23 in removal heavy matchups.
Loving carnarium, lots more keepable hands and fewer mana problems in general because long games have more mana. Also, I returned forgotten cave in the late game for nice card advantage twice which was nice. Finally, I'm gonna stay off of skred because of the damage to the manabase and because in my other testing I havent had much problem dealing with Gurmag angler and with thunderous wrath we have a decent 1 for 1 in a pinch.
by the way, @upkeep I saw your videos on Rakdos control and was wondering if there was a primer somewhere for that or if you were just tinkering? How did it feel in comparison to Mono Red? Obviously alot of great stuff comes from black ie Gangler and Thorn
It's really unfortunate that Crown-Hunter Hireling isn't legal online. It's such a great source of card advantage for red...
I think the radiant fountain is a great idea! It's certainly a significant amount of lifegain.
Tanglebloom is from a bygone era where Pristine Talisman didn't exist. I don't think there's a reason to run it anymore.
Flame Jet seems like a decent inclusion, though it's not card advantage.
I remember having good results beating burn by "going big" with my own burn spells in the sideboard. Talisman and Fountain will certainly make that matchup even easier.
I also like Avarax. There's something to be said about this card and the card advantage it creates. In the late game, being able to chain out hasty threats for several turns is relevant, not to mention its expensive firebreathing gets better with all our mana.
How about Mind Stone?
Thermo-Alchemist also hits a few important points. It hits as hard or harder than Curse of the Pierced Heart, it's cheap, and it has a pretty big butt for blocking and surviving some types of removal.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Flame Jet seems unplayable. I don't think Cycling would add more to the card than Incinterate would. Players only is a no-go.
Avarax seems like it would be good at grinding card advantage (especially without the Crown-Hunter Hirelings) but I think I'm going to stick with Beetleback Chief for now at least. Costing one less in a "21" land deck is a real advantage. I think I'll get around to trying it at some point though.
Mind Stone seems like it would be fine, but I think I'd still rather have Pristine Talisman. Gaining 1 a turn is better than a card often enough.
Alchemist does block and does provide a fast clock, but it dies to everything that isn't Firebolt. I don't think I'd want to play it. Right now their best removal targets are Martyr of Ashes and Beetleback Chief, neither of which feel great to kill.
Mono U Delver is a nasty awful grindfest. Game one is very very favorable, but games 2-3 I have trouble getting Curse to stick when they're running a million cantrips, counterspells, and Hydroblasts to remove it after it resolves. They get more, cheaper counterspells and Stormbound Giest... it's just not a fun g2-3, but still winnable. Any good suggestions? Just max Pyroblast and pray?
If I could slot some sideboard cards into the deck, I'd definitely want 2 more Martyr of Ashes so I would have more of a prayer against Heroic and Bogles (despite being 2-0 against Heroic and 1-0 against Bogles). I haven't played against the Tron control decks yet so I don't know what that matchup feels like. I might cut the Molten Rains until then. I'm in a similar spot against Affinity and Gorilla Shaman. I'll find out how much I need my cards when I finally get the matchups I added the cards for. So basically I haven't seen a majority of my sideboard in any games, but my 19 card sideboard would be 3 Electrickery 4 Molten Rain 4 Pyroblast 4 Tanglebloom 2 Martyr of Ashes 4 Gorilla Shaman.
EDIT 2/27: Finally got in a match against Affinity. The matchup felt way better than I was expecting, got a clean 2-0. I think dropping a Shaman for another Martyr is a good option, since it's relevant in more matchups as well as Affinity. It's also possible I start using the slots for Burn hate (which I still have yet to see in nearly 35 matches/games). Current record: 26-2-3 in matches, 4-3 in single games. I may end up purchasing this on MTGO at some point because I think it's a lot of fun.
EDIT 3/21: I got in a couple matches vs Burn (3-0), Tireless Tribe (2-0), Affinity (3-1), Heroic (5-1), Bogles (3-0), UB Control (1-1-1), Mono Green Land Destruction (0-1) Sultai Land Destruction (0-2) since the last time I posted. Only major changes have been adding a 3rd Martyr Maindeck over a Fissure, and a Brimstone Volley over a Staggershock and an Arc Lightning. Affinity I think isn't a great matchup, but it's winnable because Mox Monkey is good. Heroic and Bogles have been surprisingly manageable. I'm still confident burn is a terrible matchup, despite not losing. After playing a bit more, I think I'm going to try 2 Radiant Fountain over 2 Quicksand, and 2 Rakdos Carnarium over 2 Mountains.
I'm constantly amazed at how well this is performing. I'm taking it to a big in-paper pauper tournament locally and if I win I figure I'll buy into MTGO with it.
Perhaps more importantly, I got my first 5-0 on MTGO! My decklist should be published next week. It's the exact list I linked above. Beat Elves 2-0 easily, Tron 2-1 because I got lucky, R/G Aggro 2-1 because he dropped 9 power turn 3 when I had 2 lands and couldn't find a third. Sitting too passively on my Martyr of Ashes to find the third land ended up getting me. Easy wins the rest of the time, although 4x Sprout Swarm was scary. Beat Stompy 2-1 because 8 power turn 2 (which I cleared with a Martyr of Ashes) into Silhana Ledgewalker --> 2x Elephant Guide is nearly impossible to beat without a Martyr already in play. Beat U/R Kiln Fiend 2-1 round 5 to seal up the win. Lost g1 because 3 Cyclops and 3 Kiln Fiend was rough. 3rd Clops got me.
That was my second league with the deck. My brother played it to two 3-2s and my first league was a 1-4.
Anyway, decklist feels really good. I want to try Serrated Arrows over an Arc Lightning one of these days, and might try out Brimstone Volley again.
Do you think Pristine Talisman would be better than Tanglebloom? Gaining life without the stack has been important in some scenarios, and ramping with this deck is actually relevant. Is it the mana cost that is making you steer towards Tanglebloom?
I'll have to pick up your deck and give it a spin!
EDIT: Derp, didn't notice there is already a playset of talismans in the maindeck. Good stuff!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Note, just played another league and went 1-4 with a number of game losing punts and a very very close match against UR Delver.
What do you think? The initial cost is much steeper for the same ability, but being able to transition to 2 life a turn for no mana investment seems like a huge upgrade that is worth it. Thoughts?
Also, this deck is miserable to play against MBC...
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
MBC is miserable? I thought it was a pretty easy matchup! All their value dudes are 2/2s so you can Staggershock them and Firebolt them, and Gary dies to Flame Slash. Admittedly, Gurmag Angler sucks to deal with, but only 2 in most lists makes things easier. At least they've got lots of dead removal!
Also, how have you been doing, record wise? I've actually quit playing it because my record with the deck was 1-4, 5-0, 1-4, 1-4, 2-3, 0-5. I admittedly lost a good bit to myself, but sometimes lines are hard to see.
Overall I've been pretty even record-wise. It's nice not losing to Delver, though.
I'm going to test out River Shrine for a while and see how effective or janky it is.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Keep your life total high enough that Corrupt isn't an issue and try to land some Curses. It's work well for me so far, haven't lost a game in like 4 matches against MBC. Also, allowing Tendrils is its own problem. Kill your creature or their creature in response to the Tendrils and they won't gain the life.
Here's what I'm thinking right now:
3 Martyr of Ashes
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Slash
4 Firebolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Arc Lightning
4 Staggershock
1 Fissure
4 Curse of the Pierced Heart
4 Pristine Talisman
4 Flurry of Horns
Lands (21)
4 Forgotten Cave
4 Quicksand
4 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Pyroblast
1 Martyr of Ashes
3 Gorilla Shaman
2 Electrickery
3 Pillage
2 Luxa River Shrine
I had a lot of great suggestions for comments on Youtube. After only two games, Flurry of Horns already feels much more useful in the deck than Beetleback Chief. You lose out on a body, but you can attack right away and having 3 toughness is super relevant in terms of surviving combat and a lot of the removal in Pauper. I think this might be the finisher this deck needed on top of the curses.
I'm going to be trying out the bounce lands. They are there mostly to buff the mana base, making it easier to get to 3 mana and occasionally buying back a Forgotten Cave we played in the early game.
Luxa River Shrine is still on the watch list, but so far it's been doing an ok job. My only issue so far is that in certain games, I won before it ever became relevant. I guess that's not really a problem, though.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
3x Magma Jet
3x Searing Blaze
4x Skred
3x Staggershock
2x Thunderous Wrath
4x Arc Lightning
4x Firebolt
3x Flame Slash
2x Beetleback Chief
2x Martyr of Ashes
Other Permanents
3x Pristine Talisman
4x Curse of the Pierced Heart
Lands
2x Forgotten Cave
2x Quicksand
2x Radiant Fountain
17x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Flame Rift
3x Keldon Marauders
4x Pillage
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Shattering Pulse
1x Swirling Sandstorm
I've kept Skred to handle big creatures. Arc Lightning is probably one of my favorite cards to draw! It never feels wasted since you can make every point of damage count! I started using Searing Blaze over Lightning Bolt for the extra value, but I might switch back after some more games.
Currently I am testing out 2 Guardian Idols in place of 2 Firebolts. The extra mana is pretty good, but the repeatable damage has been useful in a few games! Not sure if I'm sold on it quite yet, but I'll keep trying it.
I feel like my sideboard needs a bit of work. I went with budget options, so that's why I don't have Gorilla Shaman or Pyroblast. I never seem to want Flame Rift or Keldon Marauders.
3 Martyr of Ashes
3 Lightning Shrieker
4 Firebolt
3 Flame Slash
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Fire at Will
2 Hordeling Outburst
4 Staggershock
1 Fissure
4 Pristine Talisman
4 Curse of the Pierced Heart
4 Forgotten Cave
13 Mountain
4 Quicksand
1 Martyr of Ashes
1 Flame Slash
4 Pyroblast
2 Brimstone Volley
4 Molten Rain
2 Fissure
1 Thunderous Wrath
that's my list atm. I'm loving lightning shrieker as a repeatable lava axe that dodges removal. Great for closing out games. Other than that the one of fissure in main and SB is really great for any stray Gurmag Angler or Fangren Marauder
Thoughts?
Due to the swarms of UB Delver, I suspect now is the time to play 21+ Snow Mountains and Skred, because Gurmag is a real pain, and UB Delver is really popular. Haven't played on MTGO in a while, might be time to give it a spin and some testing again.
@upkeep @DarkNinja, dunno if you'll read this, but how did Flurry of Horns and Guardian Idol turn out for you two? Had Skred been consistently big enough to kill things? And how was Radiant Fountain?
The biggest improvement to the deck was definitely Rakdos Carnarium. I started mulliganing a lot less thanks to these lands making extra land drops for free. I'm confident this change boosted my win-rate significantly.
Luxa River Shrine has had some good moments, but overall was just a bit slow for the Burn Matchup. I don't think I can recommend it to anyone, but I do think we need to find good, consistent sources of lifegain. Note that Burn now plays way more creatures than ever before, making it more susceptible to our strategy.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
@micah1 Guardian Idol was actually really good in most match ups! The ramp helped a lot plus the extra reach in damage worked in a fair amount of games. The only issue is Pristine Talisman competes for that slot since they both start working turn 3 and ramp. Talisman works better in the meta since Burn is big now, so that won over Idol.
Skred also manages to help against Anglers and Fissure is good as a single copy to help there too even though it costs a lot.
Watching Upkeep's channel (which I try to do every weekday when he updates) when he ran his list showed that Flurry of Horns is a great inclusion for the deck! There were rarely any moments when it wasn't a welcome draw.
I'm gonna get my snow lands together and test skred in the coming weeks.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE ENGINE WE NEED
and im gonna test Jaya's Greeting in the place of flame slashes in the main
I'd rather have Flame Slash over Jaya's Greeting since Slash is more mana efficient and can deal with more threats.
Also, with burning prophet potentially improving our draws I will be testing a second thunderous wrath tomorrow at pauper league.
For those who have tried it more than me, how has Radiant Fountain been?
In general having creatures is bad because blanking removal is one of the strong points of this deck so maybe prophet doesn't deserve a major spot in the main but I'm currently playing 3 and it feels pretty good.
Not currently on skred. I played a few casual games with it and I pretty rarely was able to get real value out of it where I wouldn't have preferred flame slash or another spell.I also missed carnariums which I currently have 4 of in the main. Really liking the four carnariums. I never felt punished by them and they almost always helped out a mana tight hand when I got them.
decklist to follow soon.
Went 3
Edge was tough and I had to fight back from like 2 life game 1, he got to like 48 life and I beat him down with 4 minotaurs.
Game 2 he got there like turn 4 and I had no chance
Game 3 he just didn't get enough gas and I got ahead and won with 3 prophets on board
Aristocrats was pretty easy, with the number of 2 for 1s in the deck, I just kept him off of his resources and he ended up with a 1/1 carrion feeder both games
Elves is pretty much an auto win, I just kept him off his one drops and he didn't have any gas for his better creatures in the matchup.
I'm taking burning prophet down to a 3 of and not sure what to add it to but arc lightning was better than usual so maybe a fourth there. Otherwise, I'm going to go back to 4 firebolt. I would just cut prophet games 2
Loving carnarium, lots more keepable hands and fewer mana problems in general because long games have more mana. Also, I returned forgotten cave in the late game for nice card advantage twice which was nice. Finally, I'm gonna stay off of skred because of the damage to the manabase and because in my other testing I havent had much problem dealing with Gurmag angler and with thunderous wrath we have a decent 1 for 1 in a pinch.
4 Martyr of Ashes
4 Burning Prophet
3 Firebolt
2 Flame Slash
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Arc Lightning
3 Staggershock
3 Flurry of Horns
2 Thunderous Wrath
3 Pristine Talisman
4 Curse of the Pierced Heart
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Quicksand
4 Rakdos Carnarium
13 Mountain
4 Pyroblast
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Hordeling Outburst
4 Molten Rain
2 Fissure
1 Pristine Talisman