We had a discussion, yesterday, if matches should/can be negotiated. My opinion is:
We usually have only 3 rounds, and sometimes 4. There is practically no way to play the format with 'strangers' in MTGO.
So, I think we actually should 'play' all matches, and don't 'negotiate' them. Your comments and votes(!) are appreciated.
We are using the old structure of the event again:
10(11)tix pool = 4/6 split between undefeated/lost once( +1 from former
door prize for winner = 5 tix)
If 2 undefeated, 6/4 split and +1 extra tic, so that the winner always get 5 tix (3 from 6, +1 (door)+1 extra). Loser of
finals get 3 tix.
The format is healthy right now; it doesn't require change in my opinion, or rather any changes would be unnecessary unless the community wanted to include more cards in the format from the current ban list.
The cards that would be safe to unban, but aren't necessary to increase the overall viability of different deck archetypes include:
I think the rest of the cards can stay on the banlist, and their inclusion would lead to imbalance. The above cards would be fine, but I don't think they make any given archetype more viable, but solely reinforce existing archetypes--which doesn't really strike me as something that needs to be done, unless the community really wants to play with the above cards.
In regards to taking cards away, I don't see any that are so oppressive that they cannot be beaten or lead to a widely unbalanced metagame, and certainly no one deck has shown itself to be dominant over the wide meta (sure UW/b miracles did pretty well when all the decks were WW lists, but that's indicative of an inbreed metagame and not per se the power of that deck versus a wide sampling of different available decks in the format). Over this half season, we've seen a vast increase in diversity of top winning decks from all varieties of different archetypes, which was, in my opinion, a welcome change from the clearly dominant deck, 4 Color Blood/Midrange, in season 3.
My recommendation, don't change a thing; the format is great. Referencing back to the historical precedence of the WoTC banlist is a stale arguement as the game has evolved way too much since that was even a maintained product--this format is ours now--we own it, so I could really care less personally what WoTC thought about half a decade ago--it's just not relevant.
I recommend, we set up a google poll, if you want to take away or add cards to the format and give folks 2 weeks to vote. If you want me to do this then let me know and I can put the cards up that the community either wants to vote on for inclusion or look to bar from the format and send you the link to post in here and I'll put it up on the 100c discord.
I'll do what I can to reinforce the prize pool with personal pool and as always I don't really care to take winnings from the tournament, but rather just enjoy the opportunity to play a format as diverse and enjoyable as 100 card.
Well, I did not know that, I'm sorry, so you are obviously the exception from the rule.
Let me get some things straight,too:
We did not start this event to make money, LeilaPari and me.
It was the love for the format and even when the official filter still existed in MTGO, most players didn't know or play it online, although there was a huge paper magic scene, at least in Germany. So we wanted to make it more known and wide-spread and have the chance to play our favourite format in a tournament. However, that was then. Things change, and now, I'm actually very thankful for the tix, because I had lost all my belongings.
When you are a group of people, that can help a lot. My 'carreer' started as one of several hosts for Heirloom, usally as replacement. Not really responsible, or the aim for criticism of the format and/or the event itself.
Hosting an event alone is very exhausting over the course of time. EVERY Saturday for years... If the host take his responsibilties seriously, it is also very time consuming outside the event.
It is also a difference, if you only host sometimes, or if you are responsible for the whole format and are the 'series organizer' or even the 'format organizer' in Gatherling.
I can only estimate, but if I take all the time I spent for this event( not including playing time!), the result emails, the postings in forum, discussion in chats, organizing special events and votings, searching for tix that players did not receive, ect pp, I guess, I got about 0.5-1 tic per hour 'payment'.
Nobody with a healthy mind would do this 'for the money'.
But, it is an appreciation of the host's work and an appeal to take the job seriously. Also a compensation for the rare, but very unpleasant confrontations with players, when you have to really act as host. When you have to ban a player for cheating. Or when you are accused of such absurd things by a player, that you even don't know what he means or how to defend yourself. Or when a player doesn't stop to use racist and facist comments to provoke his opponents and others.
So, it was also a release for me, when lowman pushed forward to become host. I was very confident, that he will have what it takes to be my successor, and I enjoyed my freedom, again. In October, only a few months, we will have the 4th anniversary of this event. And while I was only series organizer and sometimes a replacement host, for the 1st year, I have been hosting the rest of the time, excluding the last 7 months. I asked 2-3 weeks ago, if anybody wanted to become the new host, but nobody volunteered. Beside the fact, that nobody volunteered, my first and natural choices, which score 100 points in every category, are all 'hindered by life', Sensei, Sea, etc.
There are just a few players left in the community, which I know long enough, and which I think they could do it.
Michelle Wong and Golden Lin both need alarm clocks to attend the events, due the local time difference, and sometimes they are just too tired and don't want to stand up, which of course doesn't work as host. Socanelas still struggles with the English language, while beside other Brazilians nobody speaks Portuguese, etc pp. There are many things to be considered. Maybe, one from the newer players could take over in the future.
Brother, if you're going to do something that some folks may not like, then just do it and own it--please don't pardon yourself or appeal to the community in a sense of the travails you have to undergo in both your life and as host of the CSM and how these lend righteousness to your actions--the community isn't your sounding board; they're your friends and, in regards to the format, your responsibility. If you think that taking a portion of the prize pool equal to the what the victor receives each week in the tourney, due to the resources you have to put in, adheres to a sense of equity and fairness then so be it. However, no one wants to listen to groveling, me least of all because I know it for what it is, which is self-blind and unadulterated hypocrisy.
You say that you did not start this format to make money, and I believe you, but you sure did sell it for money to me for well over 100USD late last year. I've loaned tuned vintage decks to you at well over 400tix in value, so you could grind Gatherling tournaments to support your hobby during times of financial duress. When you had to sell your MTGO collection last year, I accepted your MTGO tickets in exchange for money over paypal to help you avoid unfavorable exchange rates. When you wanted to start playing 100c again, I gave you 30 tickets on MTGO to build a new deck up; with that deck you've won a few tournaments and I've provided you with special prizing of chase cards to help you continue your hobby in this great format. I did this for all folks because I love this format, and I like to help all of those that enjoy playing it, especially if it is challenging for them financially to compete in it.
That all said, I've paid it forward to you man, I've helped you out a lot of times even if you woke me up at 0100 in the morning to trade you a vintage deck for the next day, and what I'm going to ask you here is important to me: do not take a cut of the sponsored prize pool, leave this to the community. If it helps to think of yourself as the host and me as the producer then do so, I did technically buy the tournament from you (although I did this to help you out financially as much as I did because I wanted to be host). I'm at a point in my life where I have enough going on that I can't make it out every week, just won't happen, so I needed to hand the reins back off, but I would appreciate if you kept on in spirit of the changes that were made during the time I hosted as I think a lot of them did good things for the format and the whole of its player base.
Thanks man
K (lowman02)
PS-if you need help setting up polls, sending the results emails (I can cut and paste this in 5 mins or less) or bouncing racists/bigots/miscreants from the event than let me know, think the last miscreant (banned person) was in 2016 (ScionofJustice...go figure right) and was the only individual banned since the event was setup on gatherling (at least that's what the format editor's history has in it) [and this last one I'm serious on, I'm something of an anti-bully, and if I was honest with myself get kicks out of mentally crushing idiots who indiscriminately spurn others without provocation...maybe that's why I do what I do, who knows]
I like the idea of the host receiving part of the prize pool. As ML said above: "I got about 0.5-1 tic per hour 'payment'. Nobody with a healthy mind would do this 'for the money'." Those words make a lot of sense to me. It is a small token of recognition to the host that we are grateful as a community that someone is willing to host the event, week in and week out. Also, this small token of appreciation might help increase the chances that this event stays alive.
Ban List
I'd like a vote soon - so that we can play with Umezawa's Jitte (sorry WW and RDW players, you will simply need to adapt and put in more main deck answers). Seeing that we have Mystical Tutor and Demonic Tutor and Oath of Druids all legal for heaven's sake, Jitte should also have a chance to shine!
However, no one wants to listen to groveling, me least of all because I know it for what it is, which is self-blind and unadulterated hypocrisy.
Sorry, man, I think, it's important to explain things to be understood, I have been doing this since the start! There are 44 pages in this forum to prove this.
You call me 'Brother', but you are obviously not even my friend, that's what I call hypocrisy!
A friend would have at least answered to my mails. Nobody believes that you didn't check your privat email account for 2 weeks, at least, I don't, especially as you responded to my mails before you became host.
This is the 2nd time, that you are threatening the existence of this event.
The first time you organized and announced a boycott of the event and now you left the host position from one day to another, and while I try to keep the event alive, you accusing me and demand from me to donate my tix, as you did, while you hosted.
This is only to provoke a turmoil. You just gave all your credits from Mtgocardmarket to Bandit Keith, that's ok, you can do with them what you want, but I spent my tix the way I want, too. If you would care for the event or the community, you could have sponsored a special event or just distributed 5 extra tix to the pool for the next months. Instead you use the opportunity to attack me and start your next fight.
You are definitely an MTG expert! You have played all formats, you own every card or can buy it, without reconsidering. But your knowledge about the PRE-scene or experience as host and format organizer are rather limited. Your idea that the unbanning of cards will lead to a change in decks or even colors used by the majority of players, would assume that everybody has the cards and/or money to create a new competitive deck, which most just can't! They play PRE, because it's free.
There are other reasons, too. It is nice to play formats, that are not supported elsewhere, but if we would charge the same entrance fee as WotC for a tournament, you would be very likely the only one, who still wants to play.
Now, I want to correct some of your statements, which were plain wrong:
1. When you wanted to start playing 100c again, I gave you 30 tickets on MTGO to build a new deck up
I never wanted to start playing 100c again!! I was done, I had sold my entire collection, which took me 6 years to gather. I was demoralized and weared down by the the untenable and absurd accusations from STsung, and was rather happy to turn my back to some obviously disturbed personalities. Her incomprehensible abnormous hate for me, was absolutely shocking.
She even tried to agitate other host collagues on me, unfortunately for her, they have known me for years, and she was so in rage and absurd, also, it was reported to me. She claimed, that you and other people hate me,too and I didn't want to believe and even defended you with 'STsung is a friend of lowman, but he is also a friend of mine'. Which I still thought at that time because of the financial contributions from you. Poor people tend to forget that money is for rich people just a means to an end. I still have the email traffic and can publish it here.
So, what really happened is, that after I told you, that I had to sell my MTGO collection, because I need a new PC after 7 years, you offered to give me that 30 tix voucher, to build a new deck and being able to attend the event. I never asked for that or did expect it. I thought it was a genereous gift. In retrospective it was a clever move from you to be not seen as 'King's murderer', when starting as new host. It also provided you with a back up host, when you didn't want to host.
There is nothing wrong in using replacement hosts, but the custom in all PRE, is to ask or at least inform the replacement host BEFORE the event takes place. I hosted about 8-10 events in the last 7 months without any forwarning.
2. even if you woke me up at 0100 in the morning to trade
I never woke you ap at 1am! How should I have done this !?! I have an email adress from you, and I can enter a MTGO chat.
3.if you need help setting up polls, sending the results emails (I can cut and paste this in 5 mins or less)
Well, maybe you can do that, but you didn't as host. Oscar( our sponsor) was glad, when he heard, that from now on, I will host again, because you often didn't report anything for several weeks.
And I spent usally about 30 min for the result emails, because he is no abstract company, but a human being, and without him, this event would have not been running. I keep him up with informations about the event, players or format.
4. or bouncing racists/bigots/miscreants from the event than let me know
Now it's getting funny! You want to help me bouncing STsung, the sick dog you set on me ?!?
There is no defense against irrationalism, anyway, beside explaining, but often it fails. I spent a lot of time with ChaosBlackDoom to play and improve his decks, then in an event a card from his was bugged, and he demanded to be declared as winner( although a victory was not sure or immediately, even if the card worked correctly, if I remember that right), however after I explained him, that a bug is force majeure and no host would declare him as winner, he used the last 12-15 min to blame and insult me and his opponent, instead of keep playing.
5. think the last miscreant (banned person) was in 2016
No, it was Yokai in 2017.
There are other points, that I would like to comment, but it's 4.30 am and I spent already 5hours to write this post.
I do not hate you, and I promise I've never sicced another person on you; the drama is something I have no interest in; and yeah I'm a decently sharp fellow, but I never committed resources to help you in some deep seated, maniacal way to make you beholden to me, that's a bit out there...I did it because you are my friend, even if you piss me off regularly, I tell my friends the truth as I believe it whether they like it or not, especially when I think it's a truth that benefits the community. This is very simple: On principle I disagree with the host taking a 1/3 of the prize pool each week, this isn't about you personally, it's how I see the world and what I value. You are free to do whatever you like with it, but I'm not the sort of fellow to sit by if I think something is wrong; I speak my mind especially when I feel someone is taking something away from other people. You can take that or leave it, doesn't matter, it's an opinion piece.
I give my credits to other players because it helps them build better decks, further explore the format, and enjoy the hobby of magic...it has nothing to do with causing an insurrection. Bandit K is a good dude, he has a limited collection, he loves the format; I wanted to help him out...I've done this for many people including you.
As for the insurrection, what do I have to gain by opposing your policy, I personally don't take prizes and haven't historically, what would I gain by "attacking" you, qui bono, unless as I say I just don't think what you are doing is right.
My credibility as a host has no bearing on what I believe to be right morally, nor should what I believe to be right morally compel you to change your actions. However, I think there's enough folks that may disagree with you on this point, and I feel that they should have the truth. Nowhere in the forum does it say that the host get's 1/3 of the sponsored pool, I had no clue that was even the case until I took over the event after paying you for the right to do so...if that was a means to an ends, then I suppose it was to provide more value (eV) to the players of the format, and shake up a stale meta game that was clearly dominated by one deck. Money is a means to all people, if the ends of that are to provide more to all people that sounds like the decent thing to do. I am no saint, but I care about this format and the players of it, I wouldn't waste my time debating it with you otherwise.
That private email, is one I used pretty exclusively for gaming, with the advent of discord it's fallen into disuse, I have several private and professional emails. I'll try to do better checking them, but in no way did I deliberately ignore you.
I support ML Berlin's right to earn pennies for hosting s100 tournaments.
We are talking about pennies here everyone, pennies! It's like buying a friend a slice of pizza or a glass of beer for heaven's sake.
Yet ironically these little trinkets might actually help keep the s100 format alive. There is no need for moral outrage here. We all knew what the prize structure was on page 1 of this forum (in terms of player prizes). Oscar from MTGOCardMarket was aware of the prize structure for the host. It's Oscar's prize support money, and he's fine with it, so we should be too.
Also, to those who wish to oppose the host's prize, I say to you: Careful what you wish for. You do not know what harm will come of your opposition. Most PREs without a host prize support have fallen by the wayside.
From: Gianluca Aicardi
>> To: Michael Loth
>> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 10:35 PM
>> Subject: stsung
>>
>> Man, do you know stsung is out to get you? She kept me half an hour
>> talking about how bad a person you are, and basically told me in not
>> so many words she won't come to play in my events anymore (which she
>> doesn't much anyway) as long as I keep not sharing her opinions of you
>> (which I don't have any reason to).
>> The crux of it was something something timing out people grinding
>> events (whatever that means) posing as a good boy when you're actually
>> not.
>> My subtext is that she's pissed she timed out and lost to you, because
>> deep down she thinks when she bothers to come to a PRE, she should
>> just 1st place it. But maybe you actually did something to her and/or
>> her friends (which, she says, all hate you).
>>
>> Anyway, bottom line, I'd like for this kind of grudges not to add to
>> my burden as a host, I don't need drama on top of everything, so talk
>> to her, apologize to her, don't apologize to her, just try to get to
>> an understanding so that I don't get involved in something that, to
>> what I could understand, has nothing to do with my role as a host.
> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Michael Loth wrote:
>> Very interesting!
>> You were absolutely right about your guess. She lost to time( in 2nd game)
>> while I had 10 sec left on the clock, however she had lost the first game
>> already, and had no chance to win , only by timing me out. I see no reason
>> why I should let her win this way. I just F6ed as much as possible.
>>
>> The other part is, that she wanted to change the ban list in S100, and
>> wrote
>> long posts about why, and I did not follow and agree with her arguements.
>> When she posted another snippy remark, Sensei answered( not me!) as snippy
>> as she did, since then she was totally pissed off, I think, because she
>> remained silent in forum.
>> The only friend she has is lowman02, who definitely doesn't hate me. He is
>> my friend, too. But he also wanted to change the banlist, and proposed a
>> council of 7 players who should decide about bannings, and she was one of
>> the proposed persons.
>> Unfortunately, I was against an unelected 'council' instead of our
>> democratic community vote, which we used since WotC abandoned the official
>> ban list. Which obviously did not help to raise her opinion about me:-)
>>
>> However, I not only never wrote any insult, I also treated her with
>> respect,
>> from my side I had no problem with her.
>> In fact, I had no idea that she hates me! I just did not agree with her
>> opinions.
>> So, I see no reason to apologize, I actually don't know for what!
>>
>> However, I see the things the same way as you, it's not worth to let this
>> ruin your mood or mine.
>> I resigned being host in S100 anyway, so she may take it easier in the
>> future.
>> If she doesn't stop, just tell her you don't care, but of course, she
>> probably will tell others what bad person you are:-)
>> I don't think it would help if I talk with her, she may think of you as
>> traitor, because I can't talk about that hate of her without releasing our
>> comunication, since she never expressed that before in public or to me.
>> Oh now, I remember an 'incident' ! When she posted the first times in our
>> forum, she had a blurred photo from a webcam, additionaly she is Asian and
>> on my 10 year old 19 inch monitor, I thought she was male.
>> When after a week or so I was informed about my mistake by another player,
>> of course, I apologized in the forum!
> From: Gianluca Aicardi
> To: Michael Loth
> Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: stsung
>
> Well, she knew I would talk with you about this, it's what she wanted
> me to do, ultimately. Like, to admonish you or something.
> But maybe it's better to let it blow off. She was just coming from
> losing the match at the time, it's always the moment players are the
> most litigious.
>
> By the way, it was game 3. I was in the match, she won game 2 with
> Batterskull, remember? Somebody made a joke about skulls being
> battered. And I remember thinking, "Man, is it still not the last
> game?" And also that she had a low clock at that point and had to
> speed up if she wanted to win the match.
On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Michael Loth <ml_berlin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That is even more weird. No real clue, why she hates me so much. Beside the
> incident I mentioned, which was already 6-8 months ago. Maybe she was a
> friend of Yokai, too, and did not like that I banned him in S100 after he
> cheated in Michelle's one-time gauntlet event. But, we even chatted
> sporadically, and she never spoke a word about that, or that I'm a 'bad
> person' or why. Obviously she was too cowardly to tell me that personally.
> But, I'm even more glad that I resigned now, and don't have to bother about
> such crazy behaviour anymore.
> Btw, I will still play in S100, and she did play there, too, yesterday. So,
> when she could endure that, I see no reason why she should not play in
> Tribal, when I'm registered, also:-)
>
> I actually did not remember that it was already the 3rd game, but it sounds
> logic when I had only 10 sec. left myself on the clock, and the Batterskull
> with Stoneforge rings a bell, now
> Oh and now I have an idea about what she meant by 'timing out' ! She
> probably expected me to concede the 2nd game immediately, after she brought
> in Batterskull so early, while I kept fighting, and she needed additionally
> 6-8 minutes to win that game. While I usually understand by this term:
> Activiting abilities( mostly without real effects, only so that the other
> player has to cklick ok and lose some seconds), which I didn't. I have not
> many cards in that deck, that could do that, anyway.
> However, now, I'm somehow very tempted to do so in future matches with
> her:-)
From: Gianluca Aicardi
To: Michael Loth
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: stsung
Yeah, apparently, she sent a mex to AJ about the timing out, and he
told her about the new rule from my article from a couple weeks ago.
But he got it wrong, actually, and later admitted he misconstrued what
I was saying in the article. To make it short, nobody is ever asked to
concede when they think they could still win! (I'll explain it better
in the next article). "Absolute certainty" is the key. And the rule
sure can't be used by a player to say, "You have to let me win" (which
is harassing, if anything). Only the host can ask a player to consider
if they shouldn't concede, and even the host can't DEMAND that player
to concede, because only that player knows what he or she is holding
in hand or has left in the deck. And timing out *is* a legitimate way
to lose, therefore a legitimate way to win, as clock is a resource on
MTGO, and it must be managed appropriately. If your lagging, that's
unfortunate, but mana screw is also unfortunate, and mana flood, and
never drawing the card you need, and disconnecting and failing to come
back. In none of these situations, your opponent will concede to you
because you're having bad luck.
The rule is not meant to the advantage of either player in the game;
it's meant to the advantage of all the players who are NOT in that
game, and maybe waiting for that game to end. Somebody starts a
click-intensive combo on game 3 and you know you have no way to stop
it? That's when you should concede, not to keep everyone waiting.
My last reply:
And now the funny part:
I usually read your articles, which means about 3 out of 4 times, but I didn't read that one!
So, I totally was not aware of any rule change, no matter if misinterpreted by AJ or not.
And indeed, I tend to let 'instant win combo' players do every click, just out of protesting vs this deck types, and showing how boring they are in my opinion. And definitely always in the 1st game when it's still about time on the clock.
However, that was all not the case in this match!
And now the funny part II:
If she had not wrote false messages to AJ about me trying to timing her out, she could have won! As I said I had 10 sec. left over, I bet she spent more time with writing to AJ in the 2nd game than that!
And now I get an idea of what happened that infuriated her maybe even more! She was obviously so biased negatively about me already before, that she full of hate misinterpreted my smilies in the game chat. I usually don't like to chat in matches anyway, because it distracts me, and just takes time, because I'm a slow typer and non-native English speaker. So, often, I answer with smilies. Usually player try to be funny anyway, or make remarks like:' OMG, the shuffler hates me' , ' You are only a top deck player' ,' I hate the shuffler' , etc
She wrote only 2 messages in game chat, that I remember now clearly, because they were a bit odd: "I wish you would give me the chance to win" , which I think was after I brought in my own Batterskull. I could not really understand what she meant, why should I let her win !?
However, in the middle of a battle I have no time for philosophical questions, so I sent a smiley back.
And a few minutes later she wrote: " I hate my client !"
And I thought, yeah, sure, and sent another smiley. I don't waste time for that, but try to be polite.
But instead of a friendly smiley she probably saw a diabolic grin every time and thought I would additionally taunt her.
But on the other hand, what could you answer to that remarks, anyway?
However, if she had not typed those, for me cryptic, messages she would have saved probably again enough seconds to win.
Nowhere in the forum does it say that the host get's 1/3 of the sponsored pool
Again it proves only that you don't know the PRE scene. Please show me the other websites and forums that say how much the host gets...!
Beside stash and his colleagues, all hosts get paid.
5 tix is the lowest, some get 7.5 or 10 tix.
The reason why Heirloom still exists, is this payment for the host. When V4 was introduced , it was to terrible and completely unstable, that we had to cancel several events, because MTGO server was down or let all matches crash. All other hosts quitted MTGO and suddenly, I was the only remaining player with host ability. Heirloom, was never one of my favourite formats, I mostly played there to earn some tix to buy me the cards for Tribal and later S100.
Now, 4-5 years later, it still runs. I wanted to assure that Chainsaw Massacre will still exist in the future, that's why I changed the prize structure to the old and wide-spread system in the PRE scene. I invented this event and still felt responsible. When a new hosts thinks he would like to donate his tix, he can, but he shouldn't feel obliged to do. However, you both, lowman and sstsung, just showed that 5 tix for an event is actually much too low, compared to the stress, lies and hypocrisis a host must face sometimes. I think you only lowered the chances to find a successor. I did not expect that you will quit, lowman, but when you did, I planned to do it until we have a new host.
Please, if anybody wants to host, let me know, so I can put him in Gatherling, I won't anymore.
He (Kumagoro?) may have just claimed that I have a personal grudge against you which can be considered as hate but I do not hate people
Well, at least you told him that you and your friends hate me.
As an Asian person in a world of whiteness where discrimination and oppression is what happens in everyday life I've simply had enough.
Such a bull*****!
I have lived several years in Asia, and I like the people there more than my fellow Germans.
I've shared no lies or hypocrisy with you; there's a vast difference between these and sharing one's feelings on what is best for the community or what they think is morally right and wrong. If you cannot see the difference between these and feel that any dissension is only on the grounds of attacking your person, then I think you are looking for a fight where one was not intended or there is some hint of truth to my comments and a need for defense against them.
I considered systematically answering each of your points, but this will be my last post in this thread and I'd like to leave you with one consideration: Are WoTC employee's allowed to compete in tournament magic? No. This is obviously on a grander scale, because the money being talked about can be hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that is a difference of scale and not ethics; the ethical question is can someone who is already recieving monetary compensation and possessing greater inside information for a specific thing or event, also compete in said specific thing or event for greater monetary compensation. We're talking infentesimals here, like a swing of 1-5tix or maybe none if you go X-2, but the ethical question still remains and the answer would be no, the individual in this situation should not have a conflict of interest inherent in the nature of their arrangement, no matter how formal or informal; this is practiced in most business because like it or not if you're recieving money or giving money that is business.
The more saliant point is; I want the format to survive and even thrive, so if you're the gentlemen that has and will continue to enable that because I'm busy with life responsibilities right now, and the price is a smaller prize pool, then I can live with that eventhough I don't agree. However, I also understand that whatever these bile filled, back and forth arguements are, are also not the way to show a strong community and grow it. I've not lied to you and only given to you on numerous occasions, with no expectations in return, and for that I'm called a hypocrite and liar...I have done what I've done, in some cases from a position of generousity, and in other cases due to it being what I considered to be the most ethical (ie not keeping prizes as a paid host). None of what I've done has been intended to be selfserving, if it was it surely failed, because it's obviously led to strife and confusion, and come often at greater inconvenience to myself.
I wish you the best in perserving the community and hope that at some point you can see, I was trying to offer perspective, as you once said long ago, alot of folks won't talk up in forum, and I know I'm not the only one that feels a bit wrong about having a paid host with no non-compete clause and with no disclosure of that fact. I understand others don't share that information, but that doesn't make it correct.
To the community,
Good luck guys and keep playing 100c it's the best format in this great game!
I hope that all those who opposed the host's prize structure think it was worth the devastation they have unleashed on the format.
Sad thing is that it wasn't even an abnormal situation, as most hosts take a prize component in PRE events.
Regarding those who unleashed this devastation upon the format (predominantly stsung because it was stsung who went on a rampage to other TOs, not Lowman who did not encourage stsung to go about things like she did), I hope she is enjoying sitting in her Ivory Tower watching the world burn.
To ML Berlin, I say thank you Michael for all the many years you have supported us by hosting. The prize support you earned is not nearly enough to compensate you for all time, stress and headaches you suffered. It was a token of our appreciation, a few beers we would buy you in a pub if we met you in real life.
To Lowman I say thank you Kyle for hosting for us during the last year and for your passion for the format. I hope that a new spring will come whereby your work and other commitments will allow this to happen again.
To MTGOCardmarket, I want to thank you Oscar for your generosity towards us, week in week out. Your kindness to us and support of the format was always appreciated.
If you're going to end the whole event, then reload me as host, think you took me off, I'm busy, but I will run it. I'm not going to let it die. Thanks.
In other news, 1v1 Commander leagues and Q's are dying off, SpencerBot15 a diehard singleton player, but a lover of eV, is starting a movement on Reddit to petition WoTC for changing the format to 100c, using our current ban list as an example. Who knows how that will end up, but if you're interested follow on Discord or Reddit.
Despite some last minute gyrations, we got the CSM off without issue. Thanks to all the players who made it out, and if you didn't please come out next week.
Congrats to RobZdar on his win with Fish, and Spencerbot15, Maluc, and GoldenLin on their X-1 finishes. All X-1 finishes will be awarded 5.3 tix from our sponser on the MTGOCardMarket bot on MTGO. Rob, you got your prize from me.
Also, congrats to Yokai on winning the door prize, please catchup with me man, you went afk when the finals started and I didn't get a chance to give you your prize, but anytime I'm on hit me up and I'll get you. Sorry for not being able to provide it when you hit me up a few hours later I was in the middle of recording a cube draft at the time. Either way, your prize is waiting.
Thanks again guys, and I'll play catchup on making trophies and what not if folks care about flare on Gatherling.
100 card is still going strong, hope for folks that don't partake in the discord, they'll try to make the jump over as I try to circle around and make notifications here as well but a lot of the dialogue happens there first:
That's a perma invite for anyone still exclusively using MTGS that may be interested in making the jump over.
We're a bit light on players as of recent, which has been great eV for the folks showing up, last few weeks the least that any player regardless of record walked away with was 5.3 tickets.
Let your friends know about the event and have them give it a shot, and I also hope some of our long time players can make it back out to support the format and hopefully play some fun games.
Quick snapshot of the Metagame, based on Tournament Winning Decks:
Obviously alot of WW wins, but that's mostly due to presentation rate and the relative inexpense of the deck vs its ability to win games. Hope to see you all out next week and have a great week ahead!
It is sad to see the Chainsaw Massacre fade (as s100 is the best format in my opinion). We were the last small group in the world who were able to enjoy and play this format.
I want to thank all who contributed to the chainsaw experience during the last many years (especially the hosts and the sponsor), and I will keep on watch in case this event ever rises again like a Phoenix.
Hello Folks, don't know if anyone still haunts this space or not,
I apologize for the drop in the Chainsaw Massacre. I experienced a significant and unexpected family loss. I'm sorry for the lack of communication to you all, and I apologize if it came or comes as a disrespect to any of you; it was not so intended. I haven't been around MTGO or any of my MTGO based communications platforms for some months, and likely, due to recent personal events, will not be for the foreseeable future. I'm unfortunately not in a position to carry on running the event; although I love you all and love the format, I think I'm going to be on a spell slinging hiatus for sometime, but hopefully not forever.
I do wish you all the best, and would be honored one day to pick up some cards digital or otherwise and sit across from any of you centurions. Thanks guys and sorry for letting you down, ML you most of all because of your long standing efforts to keep the format alive and your love of it--it's tough to gauge sincerity in written word, especially with the drivel that's available in the wide medium of the internet, but I hope you know I mean that brother (ML), we've butted heads and see things differently pretty often, but at least on my behalf we part as friends and you have my kind regard, with hope that upon our next meeting we can greet each other on friendly terms.
We are sorry to hear about your family loss, and hope you can pass through that period in due time. Thoughts are with you.
I appreciate all the tremendous support you have given to the format during the last years, and I hope to duel you in future if we meet again online.
The format fell down not because of malicious intentions or laziness on anyone's behalf, it was all paved with good intentions but our small community has very different opinions on things.
It is sad because we were the last tiny bastion of an online community that preserved this s100 format. We battled on against WotC's lack of support for the format when they took away s100 tournaments, we battled on after WotC abandoned the s100 ban list, we battled on after WotC took away even our filter. We were the keepers of the flame, yet the flames took on a life of their own in the end.
Lowman's message is a very nice ray of hope for the future.
Hi,
I am new here. Found this forum because I was looking to play some German Highlander on mtgo. I was wondering if it is still possible to play a game of German Highlander and/or 100s even if the Chainsaw Massacre doesn't exist anymore? I am not looking for an event every Saturday... However, it would be great to find some people to play some German Highlander (or 100s which I am not so familiar with but it seems similar) on mtgo from time to time. I am greatful for any Response/help.
I think there will be several people who would like to duel you in s100 on Magic Online. I'd be happy to duel you (username Michelle_Wong), but I rarely go to Magic Online nowadays, so the chance that you would randomly encounter me online is slim. Others will hopefully come forward.
I am sad that you discovered this website at the worst possible moment. If you had joined us a few years ago, you would have experienced the Golden Age of this format, where we enjoyed the s100 format in a land flowing with milk and honey.
We usually have only 3 rounds, and sometimes 4. There is practically no way to play the format with 'strangers' in MTGO.
So, I think we actually should 'play' all matches, and don't 'negotiate' them. Your comments and votes(!) are appreciated.
We are using the old structure of the event again:
10(11)tix pool = 4/6 split between undefeated/lost once( +1 from former
door prize for winner = 5 tix)
If 2 undefeated, 6/4 split and +1 extra tic, so that the winner always get 5 tix (3 from 6, +1 (door)+1 extra). Loser of
finals get 3 tix.
Event 4.34
Winner: DrPringles -5
Lost once:
BrunoDogma -1
jackslagel -1
Jota_F -1
AEFabricio -1
BoozeMongoose -1
Socanelas -1
Event 4.35
Winner: Goblin_hero -5
Lost once:
AEFabricio -2
DrPringles -2
lowman02 -2
The format is healthy right now; it doesn't require change in my opinion, or rather any changes would be unnecessary unless the community wanted to include more cards in the format from the current ban list.
The cards that would be safe to unban, but aren't necessary to increase the overall viability of different deck archetypes include:
[Channel]
[Umezawa's Jitte]
[Sensei's Divining Top]
I think the rest of the cards can stay on the banlist, and their inclusion would lead to imbalance. The above cards would be fine, but I don't think they make any given archetype more viable, but solely reinforce existing archetypes--which doesn't really strike me as something that needs to be done, unless the community really wants to play with the above cards.
In regards to taking cards away, I don't see any that are so oppressive that they cannot be beaten or lead to a widely unbalanced metagame, and certainly no one deck has shown itself to be dominant over the wide meta (sure UW/b miracles did pretty well when all the decks were WW lists, but that's indicative of an inbreed metagame and not per se the power of that deck versus a wide sampling of different available decks in the format). Over this half season, we've seen a vast increase in diversity of top winning decks from all varieties of different archetypes, which was, in my opinion, a welcome change from the clearly dominant deck, 4 Color Blood/Midrange, in season 3.
My recommendation, don't change a thing; the format is great. Referencing back to the historical precedence of the WoTC banlist is a stale arguement as the game has evolved way too much since that was even a maintained product--this format is ours now--we own it, so I could really care less personally what WoTC thought about half a decade ago--it's just not relevant.
I recommend, we set up a google poll, if you want to take away or add cards to the format and give folks 2 weeks to vote. If you want me to do this then let me know and I can put the cards up that the community either wants to vote on for inclusion or look to bar from the format and send you the link to post in here and I'll put it up on the 100c discord.
I'll do what I can to reinforce the prize pool with personal pool and as always I don't really care to take winnings from the tournament, but rather just enjoy the opportunity to play a format as diverse and enjoyable as 100 card.
Take it easy folks,
K (lowman02)
[#s100] ML_Berlin: however ALL events that did not pay the host have been quit
Above statement is false. Me as Legacy and the whole TO for PD never take anything from the prize pool. We host our event for free.
Just to set thing straight because I don't want players think that all TOs receive some sort of compensation.
Thanks
Let me get some things straight,too:
We did not start this event to make money, LeilaPari and me.
It was the love for the format and even when the official filter still existed in MTGO, most players didn't know or play it online, although there was a huge paper magic scene, at least in Germany. So we wanted to make it more known and wide-spread and have the chance to play our favourite format in a tournament. However, that was then. Things change, and now, I'm actually very thankful for the tix, because I had lost all my belongings.
When you are a group of people, that can help a lot. My 'carreer' started as one of several hosts for Heirloom, usally as replacement. Not really responsible, or the aim for criticism of the format and/or the event itself.
Hosting an event alone is very exhausting over the course of time. EVERY Saturday for years... If the host take his responsibilties seriously, it is also very time consuming outside the event.
It is also a difference, if you only host sometimes, or if you are responsible for the whole format and are the 'series organizer' or even the 'format organizer' in Gatherling.
I can only estimate, but if I take all the time I spent for this event( not including playing time!), the result emails, the postings in forum, discussion in chats, organizing special events and votings, searching for tix that players did not receive, ect pp, I guess, I got about 0.5-1 tic per hour 'payment'.
Nobody with a healthy mind would do this 'for the money'.
But, it is an appreciation of the host's work and an appeal to take the job seriously. Also a compensation for the rare, but very unpleasant confrontations with players, when you have to really act as host. When you have to ban a player for cheating. Or when you are accused of such absurd things by a player, that you even don't know what he means or how to defend yourself. Or when a player doesn't stop to use racist and facist comments to provoke his opponents and others.
So, it was also a release for me, when lowman pushed forward to become host. I was very confident, that he will have what it takes to be my successor, and I enjoyed my freedom, again. In October, only a few months, we will have the 4th anniversary of this event. And while I was only series organizer and sometimes a replacement host, for the 1st year, I have been hosting the rest of the time, excluding the last 7 months. I asked 2-3 weeks ago, if anybody wanted to become the new host, but nobody volunteered. Beside the fact, that nobody volunteered, my first and natural choices, which score 100 points in every category, are all 'hindered by life', Sensei, Sea, etc.
There are just a few players left in the community, which I know long enough, and which I think they could do it.
Michelle Wong and Golden Lin both need alarm clocks to attend the events, due the local time difference, and sometimes they are just too tired and don't want to stand up, which of course doesn't work as host. Socanelas still struggles with the English language, while beside other Brazilians nobody speaks Portuguese, etc pp. There are many things to be considered. Maybe, one from the newer players could take over in the future.
Brother, if you're going to do something that some folks may not like, then just do it and own it--please don't pardon yourself or appeal to the community in a sense of the travails you have to undergo in both your life and as host of the CSM and how these lend righteousness to your actions--the community isn't your sounding board; they're your friends and, in regards to the format, your responsibility. If you think that taking a portion of the prize pool equal to the what the victor receives each week in the tourney, due to the resources you have to put in, adheres to a sense of equity and fairness then so be it. However, no one wants to listen to groveling, me least of all because I know it for what it is, which is self-blind and unadulterated hypocrisy.
You say that you did not start this format to make money, and I believe you, but you sure did sell it for money to me for well over 100USD late last year. I've loaned tuned vintage decks to you at well over 400tix in value, so you could grind Gatherling tournaments to support your hobby during times of financial duress. When you had to sell your MTGO collection last year, I accepted your MTGO tickets in exchange for money over paypal to help you avoid unfavorable exchange rates. When you wanted to start playing 100c again, I gave you 30 tickets on MTGO to build a new deck up; with that deck you've won a few tournaments and I've provided you with special prizing of chase cards to help you continue your hobby in this great format. I did this for all folks because I love this format, and I like to help all of those that enjoy playing it, especially if it is challenging for them financially to compete in it.
That all said, I've paid it forward to you man, I've helped you out a lot of times even if you woke me up at 0100 in the morning to trade you a vintage deck for the next day, and what I'm going to ask you here is important to me: do not take a cut of the sponsored prize pool, leave this to the community. If it helps to think of yourself as the host and me as the producer then do so, I did technically buy the tournament from you (although I did this to help you out financially as much as I did because I wanted to be host). I'm at a point in my life where I have enough going on that I can't make it out every week, just won't happen, so I needed to hand the reins back off, but I would appreciate if you kept on in spirit of the changes that were made during the time I hosted as I think a lot of them did good things for the format and the whole of its player base.
Thanks man
K (lowman02)
PS-if you need help setting up polls, sending the results emails (I can cut and paste this in 5 mins or less) or bouncing racists/bigots/miscreants from the event than let me know, think the last miscreant (banned person) was in 2016 (ScionofJustice...go figure right) and was the only individual banned since the event was setup on gatherling (at least that's what the format editor's history has in it) [and this last one I'm serious on, I'm something of an anti-bully, and if I was honest with myself get kicks out of mentally crushing idiots who indiscriminately spurn others without provocation...maybe that's why I do what I do, who knows]
Host
I like the idea of the host receiving part of the prize pool. As ML said above: "I got about 0.5-1 tic per hour 'payment'. Nobody with a healthy mind would do this 'for the money'." Those words make a lot of sense to me. It is a small token of recognition to the host that we are grateful as a community that someone is willing to host the event, week in and week out. Also, this small token of appreciation might help increase the chances that this event stays alive.
Ban List
I'd like a vote soon - so that we can play with Umezawa's Jitte (sorry WW and RDW players, you will simply need to adapt and put in more main deck answers). Seeing that we have Mystical Tutor and Demonic Tutor and Oath of Druids all legal for heaven's sake, Jitte should also have a chance to shine!
Sorry, man, I think, it's important to explain things to be understood, I have been doing this since the start! There are 44 pages in this forum to prove this.
You call me 'Brother', but you are obviously not even my friend, that's what I call hypocrisy!
A friend would have at least answered to my mails. Nobody believes that you didn't check your privat email account for 2 weeks, at least, I don't, especially as you responded to my mails before you became host.
This is the 2nd time, that you are threatening the existence of this event.
The first time you organized and announced a boycott of the event and now you left the host position from one day to another, and while I try to keep the event alive, you accusing me and demand from me to donate my tix, as you did, while you hosted.
This is only to provoke a turmoil. You just gave all your credits from Mtgocardmarket to Bandit Keith, that's ok, you can do with them what you want, but I spent my tix the way I want, too. If you would care for the event or the community, you could have sponsored a special event or just distributed 5 extra tix to the pool for the next months. Instead you use the opportunity to attack me and start your next fight.
You are definitely an MTG expert! You have played all formats, you own every card or can buy it, without reconsidering. But your knowledge about the PRE-scene or experience as host and format organizer are rather limited. Your idea that the unbanning of cards will lead to a change in decks or even colors used by the majority of players, would assume that everybody has the cards and/or money to create a new competitive deck, which most just can't! They play PRE, because it's free.
There are other reasons, too. It is nice to play formats, that are not supported elsewhere, but if we would charge the same entrance fee as WotC for a tournament, you would be very likely the only one, who still wants to play.
Now, I want to correct some of your statements, which were plain wrong:
1. When you wanted to start playing 100c again, I gave you 30 tickets on MTGO to build a new deck up
I never wanted to start playing 100c again!! I was done, I had sold my entire collection, which took me 6 years to gather. I was demoralized and weared down by the the untenable and absurd accusations from STsung, and was rather happy to turn my back to some obviously disturbed personalities. Her incomprehensible abnormous hate for me, was absolutely shocking.
She even tried to agitate other host collagues on me, unfortunately for her, they have known me for years, and she was so in rage and absurd, also, it was reported to me. She claimed, that you and other people hate me,too and I didn't want to believe and even defended you with 'STsung is a friend of lowman, but he is also a friend of mine'. Which I still thought at that time because of the financial contributions from you. Poor people tend to forget that money is for rich people just a means to an end. I still have the email traffic and can publish it here.
So, what really happened is, that after I told you, that I had to sell my MTGO collection, because I need a new PC after 7 years, you offered to give me that 30 tix voucher, to build a new deck and being able to attend the event. I never asked for that or did expect it. I thought it was a genereous gift. In retrospective it was a clever move from you to be not seen as 'King's murderer', when starting as new host. It also provided you with a back up host, when you didn't want to host.
There is nothing wrong in using replacement hosts, but the custom in all PRE, is to ask or at least inform the replacement host BEFORE the event takes place. I hosted about 8-10 events in the last 7 months without any forwarning.
2. even if you woke me up at 0100 in the morning to trade
I never woke you ap at 1am! How should I have done this !?! I have an email adress from you, and I can enter a MTGO chat.
3.if you need help setting up polls, sending the results emails (I can cut and paste this in 5 mins or less)
Well, maybe you can do that, but you didn't as host. Oscar( our sponsor) was glad, when he heard, that from now on, I will host again, because you often didn't report anything for several weeks.
And I spent usally about 30 min for the result emails, because he is no abstract company, but a human being, and without him, this event would have not been running. I keep him up with informations about the event, players or format.
4. or bouncing racists/bigots/miscreants from the event than let me know
Now it's getting funny! You want to help me bouncing STsung, the sick dog you set on me ?!?
There is no defense against irrationalism, anyway, beside explaining, but often it fails. I spent a lot of time with ChaosBlackDoom to play and improve his decks, then in an event a card from his was bugged, and he demanded to be declared as winner( although a victory was not sure or immediately, even if the card worked correctly, if I remember that right), however after I explained him, that a bug is force majeure and no host would declare him as winner, he used the last 12-15 min to blame and insult me and his opponent, instead of keep playing.
5. think the last miscreant (banned person) was in 2016
No, it was Yokai in 2017.
There are other points, that I would like to comment, but it's 4.30 am and I spent already 5hours to write this post.
I do not hate you, and I promise I've never sicced another person on you; the drama is something I have no interest in; and yeah I'm a decently sharp fellow, but I never committed resources to help you in some deep seated, maniacal way to make you beholden to me, that's a bit out there...I did it because you are my friend, even if you piss me off regularly, I tell my friends the truth as I believe it whether they like it or not, especially when I think it's a truth that benefits the community. This is very simple: On principle I disagree with the host taking a 1/3 of the prize pool each week, this isn't about you personally, it's how I see the world and what I value. You are free to do whatever you like with it, but I'm not the sort of fellow to sit by if I think something is wrong; I speak my mind especially when I feel someone is taking something away from other people. You can take that or leave it, doesn't matter, it's an opinion piece.
I give my credits to other players because it helps them build better decks, further explore the format, and enjoy the hobby of magic...it has nothing to do with causing an insurrection. Bandit K is a good dude, he has a limited collection, he loves the format; I wanted to help him out...I've done this for many people including you.
As for the insurrection, what do I have to gain by opposing your policy, I personally don't take prizes and haven't historically, what would I gain by "attacking" you, qui bono, unless as I say I just don't think what you are doing is right.
My credibility as a host has no bearing on what I believe to be right morally, nor should what I believe to be right morally compel you to change your actions. However, I think there's enough folks that may disagree with you on this point, and I feel that they should have the truth. Nowhere in the forum does it say that the host get's 1/3 of the sponsored pool, I had no clue that was even the case until I took over the event after paying you for the right to do so...if that was a means to an ends, then I suppose it was to provide more value (eV) to the players of the format, and shake up a stale meta game that was clearly dominated by one deck. Money is a means to all people, if the ends of that are to provide more to all people that sounds like the decent thing to do. I am no saint, but I care about this format and the players of it, I wouldn't waste my time debating it with you otherwise.
That private email, is one I used pretty exclusively for gaming, with the advent of discord it's fallen into disuse, I have several private and professional emails. I'll try to do better checking them, but in no way did I deliberately ignore you.
K
We are talking about pennies here everyone, pennies! It's like buying a friend a slice of pizza or a glass of beer for heaven's sake.
Yet ironically these little trinkets might actually help keep the s100 format alive. There is no need for moral outrage here. We all knew what the prize structure was on page 1 of this forum (in terms of player prizes). Oscar from MTGOCardMarket was aware of the prize structure for the host. It's Oscar's prize support money, and he's fine with it, so we should be too.
Also, to those who wish to oppose the host's prize, I say to you: Careful what you wish for. You do not know what harm will come of your opposition. Most PREs without a host prize support have fallen by the wayside.
>> To: Michael Loth
>> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 10:35 PM
>> Subject: stsung
>>
>> Man, do you know stsung is out to get you? She kept me half an hour
>> talking about how bad a person you are, and basically told me in not
>> so many words she won't come to play in my events anymore (which she
>> doesn't much anyway) as long as I keep not sharing her opinions of you
>> (which I don't have any reason to).
>> The crux of it was something something timing out people grinding
>> events (whatever that means) posing as a good boy when you're actually
>> not.
>> My subtext is that she's pissed she timed out and lost to you, because
>> deep down she thinks when she bothers to come to a PRE, she should
>> just 1st place it. But maybe you actually did something to her and/or
>> her friends (which, she says, all hate you).
>>
>> Anyway, bottom line, I'd like for this kind of grudges not to add to
>> my burden as a host, I don't need drama on top of everything, so talk
>> to her, apologize to her, don't apologize to her, just try to get to
>> an understanding so that I don't get involved in something that, to
>> what I could understand, has nothing to do with my role as a host.
> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Michael Loth wrote:
>> Very interesting!
>> You were absolutely right about your guess. She lost to time( in 2nd game)
>> while I had 10 sec left on the clock, however she had lost the first game
>> already, and had no chance to win , only by timing me out. I see no reason
>> why I should let her win this way. I just F6ed as much as possible.
>>
>> The other part is, that she wanted to change the ban list in S100, and
>> wrote
>> long posts about why, and I did not follow and agree with her arguements.
>> When she posted another snippy remark, Sensei answered( not me!) as snippy
>> as she did, since then she was totally pissed off, I think, because she
>> remained silent in forum.
>> The only friend she has is lowman02, who definitely doesn't hate me. He is
>> my friend, too. But he also wanted to change the banlist, and proposed a
>> council of 7 players who should decide about bannings, and she was one of
>> the proposed persons.
>> Unfortunately, I was against an unelected 'council' instead of our
>> democratic community vote, which we used since WotC abandoned the official
>> ban list. Which obviously did not help to raise her opinion about me:-)
>>
>> However, I not only never wrote any insult, I also treated her with
>> respect,
>> from my side I had no problem with her.
>> In fact, I had no idea that she hates me! I just did not agree with her
>> opinions.
>> So, I see no reason to apologize, I actually don't know for what!
>>
>> However, I see the things the same way as you, it's not worth to let this
>> ruin your mood or mine.
>> I resigned being host in S100 anyway, so she may take it easier in the
>> future.
>> If she doesn't stop, just tell her you don't care, but of course, she
>> probably will tell others what bad person you are:-)
>> I don't think it would help if I talk with her, she may think of you as
>> traitor, because I can't talk about that hate of her without releasing our
>> comunication, since she never expressed that before in public or to me.
>> Oh now, I remember an 'incident' ! When she posted the first times in our
>> forum, she had a blurred photo from a webcam, additionaly she is Asian and
>> on my 10 year old 19 inch monitor, I thought she was male.
>> When after a week or so I was informed about my mistake by another player,
>> of course, I apologized in the forum!
> From: Gianluca Aicardi
> To: Michael Loth
> Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: stsung
>
> Well, she knew I would talk with you about this, it's what she wanted
> me to do, ultimately. Like, to admonish you or something.
> But maybe it's better to let it blow off. She was just coming from
> losing the match at the time, it's always the moment players are the
> most litigious.
>
> By the way, it was game 3. I was in the match, she won game 2 with
> Batterskull, remember? Somebody made a joke about skulls being
> battered. And I remember thinking, "Man, is it still not the last
> game?" And also that she had a low clock at that point and had to
> speed up if she wanted to win the match.
On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Michael Loth <ml_berlin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That is even more weird. No real clue, why she hates me so much. Beside the
> incident I mentioned, which was already 6-8 months ago. Maybe she was a
> friend of Yokai, too, and did not like that I banned him in S100 after he
> cheated in Michelle's one-time gauntlet event. But, we even chatted
> sporadically, and she never spoke a word about that, or that I'm a 'bad
> person' or why. Obviously she was too cowardly to tell me that personally.
> But, I'm even more glad that I resigned now, and don't have to bother about
> such crazy behaviour anymore.
> Btw, I will still play in S100, and she did play there, too, yesterday. So,
> when she could endure that, I see no reason why she should not play in
> Tribal, when I'm registered, also:-)
>
> I actually did not remember that it was already the 3rd game, but it sounds
> logic when I had only 10 sec. left myself on the clock, and the Batterskull
> with Stoneforge rings a bell, now
> Oh and now I have an idea about what she meant by 'timing out' ! She
> probably expected me to concede the 2nd game immediately, after she brought
> in Batterskull so early, while I kept fighting, and she needed additionally
> 6-8 minutes to win that game. While I usually understand by this term:
> Activiting abilities( mostly without real effects, only so that the other
> player has to cklick ok and lose some seconds), which I didn't. I have not
> many cards in that deck, that could do that, anyway.
> However, now, I'm somehow very tempted to do so in future matches with
> her:-)
From: Gianluca Aicardi
To: Michael Loth
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: stsung
Yeah, apparently, she sent a mex to AJ about the timing out, and he
told her about the new rule from my article from a couple weeks ago.
But he got it wrong, actually, and later admitted he misconstrued what
I was saying in the article. To make it short, nobody is ever asked to
concede when they think they could still win! (I'll explain it better
in the next article). "Absolute certainty" is the key. And the rule
sure can't be used by a player to say, "You have to let me win" (which
is harassing, if anything). Only the host can ask a player to consider
if they shouldn't concede, and even the host can't DEMAND that player
to concede, because only that player knows what he or she is holding
in hand or has left in the deck. And timing out *is* a legitimate way
to lose, therefore a legitimate way to win, as clock is a resource on
MTGO, and it must be managed appropriately. If your lagging, that's
unfortunate, but mana screw is also unfortunate, and mana flood, and
never drawing the card you need, and disconnecting and failing to come
back. In none of these situations, your opponent will concede to you
because you're having bad luck.
The rule is not meant to the advantage of either player in the game;
it's meant to the advantage of all the players who are NOT in that
game, and maybe waiting for that game to end. Somebody starts a
click-intensive combo on game 3 and you know you have no way to stop
it? That's when you should concede, not to keep everyone waiting.
My last reply:
And now the funny part:
I usually read your articles, which means about 3 out of 4 times, but I didn't read that one!
So, I totally was not aware of any rule change, no matter if misinterpreted by AJ or not.
And indeed, I tend to let 'instant win combo' players do every click, just out of protesting vs this deck types, and showing how boring they are in my opinion. And definitely always in the 1st game when it's still about time on the clock.
However, that was all not the case in this match!
And now the funny part II:
If she had not wrote false messages to AJ about me trying to timing her out, she could have won! As I said I had 10 sec. left over, I bet she spent more time with writing to AJ in the 2nd game than that!
And now I get an idea of what happened that infuriated her maybe even more! She was obviously so biased negatively about me already before, that she full of hate misinterpreted my smilies in the game chat. I usually don't like to chat in matches anyway, because it distracts me, and just takes time, because I'm a slow typer and non-native English speaker. So, often, I answer with smilies. Usually player try to be funny anyway, or make remarks like:' OMG, the shuffler hates me' , ' You are only a top deck player' ,' I hate the shuffler' , etc
She wrote only 2 messages in game chat, that I remember now clearly, because they were a bit odd: "I wish you would give me the chance to win" , which I think was after I brought in my own Batterskull. I could not really understand what she meant, why should I let her win !?
However, in the middle of a battle I have no time for philosophical questions, so I sent a smiley back.
And a few minutes later she wrote: " I hate my client !"
And I thought, yeah, sure, and sent another smiley. I don't waste time for that, but try to be polite.
But instead of a friendly smiley she probably saw a diabolic grin every time and thought I would additionally taunt her.
But on the other hand, what could you answer to that remarks, anyway?
However, if she had not typed those, for me cryptic, messages she would have saved probably again enough seconds to win.
Again it proves only that you don't know the PRE scene. Please show me the other websites and forums that say how much the host gets...!
Beside stash and his colleagues, all hosts get paid.
5 tix is the lowest, some get 7.5 or 10 tix.
The reason why Heirloom still exists, is this payment for the host. When V4 was introduced , it was to terrible and completely unstable, that we had to cancel several events, because MTGO server was down or let all matches crash. All other hosts quitted MTGO and suddenly, I was the only remaining player with host ability. Heirloom, was never one of my favourite formats, I mostly played there to earn some tix to buy me the cards for Tribal and later S100.
Now, 4-5 years later, it still runs. I wanted to assure that Chainsaw Massacre will still exist in the future, that's why I changed the prize structure to the old and wide-spread system in the PRE scene. I invented this event and still felt responsible. When a new hosts thinks he would like to donate his tix, he can, but he shouldn't feel obliged to do. However, you both, lowman and sstsung, just showed that 5 tix for an event is actually much too low, compared to the stress, lies and hypocrisis a host must face sometimes. I think you only lowered the chances to find a successor. I did not expect that you will quit, lowman, but when you did, I planned to do it until we have a new host.
Please, if anybody wants to host, let me know, so I can put him in Gatherling, I won't anymore.
He (Kumagoro?) may have just claimed that I have a personal grudge against you which can be considered as hate but I do not hate people
Well, at least you told him that you and your friends hate me.
As an Asian person in a world of whiteness where discrimination and oppression is what happens in everyday life I've simply had enough.
Such a bull*****!
I have lived several years in Asia, and I like the people there more than my fellow Germans.
I've shared no lies or hypocrisy with you; there's a vast difference between these and sharing one's feelings on what is best for the community or what they think is morally right and wrong. If you cannot see the difference between these and feel that any dissension is only on the grounds of attacking your person, then I think you are looking for a fight where one was not intended or there is some hint of truth to my comments and a need for defense against them.
I considered systematically answering each of your points, but this will be my last post in this thread and I'd like to leave you with one consideration: Are WoTC employee's allowed to compete in tournament magic? No. This is obviously on a grander scale, because the money being talked about can be hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that is a difference of scale and not ethics; the ethical question is can someone who is already recieving monetary compensation and possessing greater inside information for a specific thing or event, also compete in said specific thing or event for greater monetary compensation. We're talking infentesimals here, like a swing of 1-5tix or maybe none if you go X-2, but the ethical question still remains and the answer would be no, the individual in this situation should not have a conflict of interest inherent in the nature of their arrangement, no matter how formal or informal; this is practiced in most business because like it or not if you're recieving money or giving money that is business.
The more saliant point is; I want the format to survive and even thrive, so if you're the gentlemen that has and will continue to enable that because I'm busy with life responsibilities right now, and the price is a smaller prize pool, then I can live with that eventhough I don't agree. However, I also understand that whatever these bile filled, back and forth arguements are, are also not the way to show a strong community and grow it. I've not lied to you and only given to you on numerous occasions, with no expectations in return, and for that I'm called a hypocrite and liar...I have done what I've done, in some cases from a position of generousity, and in other cases due to it being what I considered to be the most ethical (ie not keeping prizes as a paid host). None of what I've done has been intended to be selfserving, if it was it surely failed, because it's obviously led to strife and confusion, and come often at greater inconvenience to myself.
I wish you the best in perserving the community and hope that at some point you can see, I was trying to offer perspective, as you once said long ago, alot of folks won't talk up in forum, and I know I'm not the only one that feels a bit wrong about having a paid host with no non-compete clause and with no disclosure of that fact. I understand others don't share that information, but that doesn't make it correct.
To the community,
Good luck guys and keep playing 100c it's the best format in this great game!
V/R
K (lowman02)
Sad thing is that it wasn't even an abnormal situation, as most hosts take a prize component in PRE events.
Regarding those who unleashed this devastation upon the format (predominantly stsung because it was stsung who went on a rampage to other TOs, not Lowman who did not encourage stsung to go about things like she did), I hope she is enjoying sitting in her Ivory Tower watching the world burn.
To ML Berlin, I say thank you Michael for all the many years you have supported us by hosting. The prize support you earned is not nearly enough to compensate you for all time, stress and headaches you suffered. It was a token of our appreciation, a few beers we would buy you in a pub if we met you in real life.
To Lowman I say thank you Kyle for hosting for us during the last year and for your passion for the format. I hope that a new spring will come whereby your work and other commitments will allow this to happen again.
To MTGOCardmarket, I want to thank you Oscar for your generosity towards us, week in week out. Your kindness to us and support of the format was always appreciated.
If you're going to end the whole event, then reload me as host, think you took me off, I'm busy, but I will run it. I'm not going to let it die. Thanks.
In other news, 1v1 Commander leagues and Q's are dying off, SpencerBot15 a diehard singleton player, but a lover of eV, is starting a movement on Reddit to petition WoTC for changing the format to 100c, using our current ban list as an example. Who knows how that will end up, but if you're interested follow on Discord or Reddit.
K (lowman02)
Despite some last minute gyrations, we got the CSM off without issue. Thanks to all the players who made it out, and if you didn't please come out next week.
Congrats to RobZdar on his win with Fish, and Spencerbot15, Maluc, and GoldenLin on their X-1 finishes. All X-1 finishes will be awarded 5.3 tix from our sponser on the MTGOCardMarket bot on MTGO. Rob, you got your prize from me.
Also, congrats to Yokai on winning the door prize, please catchup with me man, you went afk when the finals started and I didn't get a chance to give you your prize, but anytime I'm on hit me up and I'll get you. Sorry for not being able to provide it when you hit me up a few hours later I was in the middle of recording a cube draft at the time. Either way, your prize is waiting.
Thanks again guys, and I'll play catchup on making trophies and what not if folks care about flare on Gatherling.
Take it easy and have a great week.
K (lowman02)
100 card is still going strong, hope for folks that don't partake in the discord, they'll try to make the jump over as I try to circle around and make notifications here as well but a lot of the dialogue happens there first:
https://discord.gg/REWVR4X
That's a perma invite for anyone still exclusively using MTGS that may be interested in making the jump over.
We're a bit light on players as of recent, which has been great eV for the folks showing up, last few weeks the least that any player regardless of record walked away with was 5.3 tickets.
Let your friends know about the event and have them give it a shot, and I also hope some of our long time players can make it back out to support the format and hopefully play some fun games.
Quick snapshot of the Metagame, based on Tournament Winning Decks:
White Weenie-11
RDW-2
RGMidrange/Ramp-2
Oath-2
Mefolk-2
Reanimator-2
UWRAggro/Control-2
GrixisDelve-1
Esper-5
4/5CShift-2
URMoon/Twin-3
4CBlood-5
Obviously alot of WW wins, but that's mostly due to presentation rate and the relative inexpense of the deck vs its ability to win games. Hope to see you all out next week and have a great week ahead!
Take care,
K (lowman02)
I want to thank all who contributed to the chainsaw experience during the last many years (especially the hosts and the sponsor), and I will keep on watch in case this event ever rises again like a Phoenix.
I apologize for the drop in the Chainsaw Massacre. I experienced a significant and unexpected family loss. I'm sorry for the lack of communication to you all, and I apologize if it came or comes as a disrespect to any of you; it was not so intended. I haven't been around MTGO or any of my MTGO based communications platforms for some months, and likely, due to recent personal events, will not be for the foreseeable future. I'm unfortunately not in a position to carry on running the event; although I love you all and love the format, I think I'm going to be on a spell slinging hiatus for sometime, but hopefully not forever.
I do wish you all the best, and would be honored one day to pick up some cards digital or otherwise and sit across from any of you centurions. Thanks guys and sorry for letting you down, ML you most of all because of your long standing efforts to keep the format alive and your love of it--it's tough to gauge sincerity in written word, especially with the drivel that's available in the wide medium of the internet, but I hope you know I mean that brother (ML), we've butted heads and see things differently pretty often, but at least on my behalf we part as friends and you have my kind regard, with hope that upon our next meeting we can greet each other on friendly terms.
Take care folks
Thanks for your kind message.
We are sorry to hear about your family loss, and hope you can pass through that period in due time. Thoughts are with you.
I appreciate all the tremendous support you have given to the format during the last years, and I hope to duel you in future if we meet again online.
The format fell down not because of malicious intentions or laziness on anyone's behalf, it was all paved with good intentions but our small community has very different opinions on things.
It is sad because we were the last tiny bastion of an online community that preserved this s100 format. We battled on against WotC's lack of support for the format when they took away s100 tournaments, we battled on after WotC abandoned the s100 ban list, we battled on after WotC took away even our filter. We were the keepers of the flame, yet the flames took on a life of their own in the end.
Lowman's message is a very nice ray of hope for the future.
I am new here. Found this forum because I was looking to play some German Highlander on mtgo. I was wondering if it is still possible to play a game of German Highlander and/or 100s even if the Chainsaw Massacre doesn't exist anymore? I am not looking for an event every Saturday... However, it would be great to find some people to play some German Highlander (or 100s which I am not so familiar with but it seems similar) on mtgo from time to time. I am greatful for any Response/help.
Nice to see your message.
I think there will be several people who would like to duel you in s100 on Magic Online. I'd be happy to duel you (username Michelle_Wong), but I rarely go to Magic Online nowadays, so the chance that you would randomly encounter me online is slim. Others will hopefully come forward.
I am sad that you discovered this website at the worst possible moment. If you had joined us a few years ago, you would have experienced the Golden Age of this format, where we enjoyed the s100 format in a land flowing with milk and honey.