I'm going to be getting back into Heirloom and I'd love to test brews rather then goldfish/play both sides of a MU once in a while. PM me here or on MTGO it's yndrby
I'm going to be getting back into Heirloom and I'd love to test brews rather then goldfish/play both sides of a MU once in a while. PM me here or on MTGO it's yndrby
If I'm on, I'll help with play testing, I usually have several decks built for the format. (Username gumgod on MTGO)
Guys, I can't host today and couldn't get someone to cover for me yet, so today's event is cancelled. Sorry about that, but I'll see you guys on Friday
is everything MBC now? lol where is the 4x smiter 3x pro black elk maindeck Zoo decks with 4x dodecapod sb to make MBC cry? Did I not teach you guys anything about destroying a Discard meta the first time :P.
1. There are 60 Card Standard Heirloom Singleton, Classic Heirloom, Heirloom Kaleidoscope, Legacy Heirloom and Standard Heirloom. I guess Classic Heirloom is the most popular because is the only one I've seen a thread in this forum. I know this thread is only about Classic Heirloom but I just would like to know which of the others formats are the most played. Why is Classic preferred over Legacy? The Standard Heirloom seems to use cards that are not in Standard, why is that?
2. When I first heared about Heirloom the price limits were $0.05, $0.10, $0.20 and $1.00, now they are 0.13, 0.25, 0.5 and 1.5. When did that change and why?
3. This is supposed to be a extremely budget format but when I introduce a deck I like into TCGplayer mass entry I see it costs $66. I know there is difference between online and paper magic but that much? What's the average price in dollars of a Heirloom deck in mtgo?
4. I would like to play this format in paper magic, is there a page like the Heirloom legality checker for paper magic?
5. Do you know how to contact the person who created the Heirloom legality checker? I would like to make a page like that taking the prices from MagicCardMarket which is where I use to buy cards.
6. If you know someone who wants to play this format in cockatrice let me know.
I'm wanting to get into the format but am having trouble reconciling some differences between the Heirloom legality checker site, the spreadsheet that is linked, and Gatherling. Is the spreadsheet the most accurate document? It seems like it is since the legality checker lists Thrummingstone, which is a bit expensive atm, while the spreadsheet doesn't. Right now I'm specifically curious if Pulse of Murasa is legal, it is in the spreadsheet, but does not show up in Gatherer. Is there a standard method for listing a card from the spreadsheet that isn't in Gatherer?
Was there ever any movement on the idea of rescinding the ban on Swords to Plowshares in blue decks?
No? Nothing? Anyone?
Sorry for the late reply, but I haven't been able to use the internet socially this week.
The partial bans will end on the next rotation (which should happen next week if I have the time to do it).
0.o so i can build the UW tempo deck ive wanted to build for 4 months? now i have to show up for the first week this rotation happens.
Might be. Also, consider I said the partial bans will end. I said nothing about whose cards will be banned/unbanned (might be even new bans)
Don't get my hopes up like that Just saying if STP is unbanned you might see some Rattlechains Or a Rafiq of the many from me Ive had UW spirits and Bant both on my radar waiting for the announcement So guess we will see.
Invigorate is banned. This is a preventive measure as the infect deck is already capable of killing on turn 2 and with this rotation would receive Invigorate and Groundswell and would become much more consistent, so I decided to take out the card I thought as being the worst offender.
I don't agree with this type of banning. Cards should get an opportunity to prove whether or not they are oppressive through playtesting. I have read that you tried it yourself in a deck, but that doesn't really show how it holds up against the current gauntlet of things other people are playing, or that they might build with the new legality list.
Invigorate is banned. This is a preventive measure as the infect deck is already capable of killing on turn 2 and with this rotation would receive Invigorate and Groundswell and would become much more consistent, so I decided to take out the card I thought as being the worst offender.
I don't agree with this type of banning. Cards should get an opportunity to prove whether or not they are oppressive through playtesting. I have read that you tried it yourself in a deck, but that doesn't really show how it holds up against the current gauntlet of things other people are playing, or that they might build with the new legality list.
goldfish the deck 15 times and get back to me if you still have that opinion..... I was going to play infect this week 100%. it goldfishes a turn 2/3 win 70% of the time. and Even can goldfish a turn 2 with with a dispel backup... Or you know just wait till turn 3 and have double counter backup lol. and this was turn 2/3 goldfish wins while running 10 counters maindeck in the one i was gonna run..
1. Fact or Fiction is banned. This was one of the reasons I love Heirloom format, because it is a super sweet card and it did not seem to be dominating the events.
2. Decree of Justice is completely banned. I do not agree with that decision, because the popular blue/white control deck has now lost Counterspell and Fact or Fiction. Completely banning a fair white card seems too harsh. I realise that it is too awkward to ban it in non-white decks, therefore I recommend making it legal in all decks.
I am happy that Invigorate is banned, because the power level of that card is too huge in this format. Cards which can be cast for free and can win the game on turn 2 are too powerful in my opinion. The infect deck can already kill on Turn 2, so it makes sense to reduce the amount of times a Turn 2 win is achievable.
So, with these changes, can I see the complete ban list? The one on the first post in the thread isn't accurate anymore. Thank you. Also, how do other people feel about Berserk? Personally I think it's only used to be a broken combo kill. I've had others say that Temur Battle Rage is just as bad, but TBR requires a second color, and is twice as expensive mana wise.
If this is the case, then I recommend during the next rotation to ban Hymn to Tourach. If Decree of Justice is banned in all decks, then it is absurd that Hymn to Tourach is allowed (given that the Hymn is both incredibly powerful AND rampant). Decree of Justice, on the other hand, if used in an Azorius or Esper deck, must contend with having no Counterspells, no Facts or Fictions, and an awkward mana base.
Today I wanted to use Decree of Justice in a fair way in a mono white deck (to give me reach against Draw-Go decks), and yet it was not possible.
(And yes I use Hymn myself in my black decks, but only because the card is completely bonkers and yet somehow legal).
These are my thoughts with all respect to everyone.
If this is the case, then I recommend during the next rotation to ban Hymn to Tourach. If Decree of Justice is banned in all decks, then it is absurd that Hymn to Tourach is allowed (given that the Hymn is both incredibly powerful AND rampant). Decree of Justice, on the other hand, if used in an Azorius or Esper deck, must contend with having no Counterspells, no Facts or Fictions, and an awkward mana base.
Today I wanted to use Decree of Justice in a fair way in a white deck (to give me reach against Draw-Go decks), and yet it was not possible.
(And yes I use Hymn myself in my black decks, but only because the card is completely bonkers and yet somehow legal).
These are my thoughts with all respect to everyone.
its funny you say that cause after looking at the results of last night I was coming here to say the same thing... Ive Felt this way for a while but Didn't really bring it up because I was playing zoo and people were playing zoo so Jund had a true counter... But Honestly Hymn needs to be watched for the next few months. and if jund keeps being consistently the best deck Hymn needs to go. Like hymn is just too destructive of a card and it limits what can be run in this format because turn 2 hymn you just lose sometimes to no lands left or all your gas gone. Overall I think banning it wouldn't kill jund they would just have to go down to 4x duress or 4x the creature one and have to play "fair" cards. rather than having the best discard spell every printed.
Losing BBE didn't really hurt jund as it wasn't that broken in the deck. Losing BBE killed decks like zoo that relied on getting 7-8 power off of it and since zoo is now basically dead the natural counter to Jund (zoo) isn't around. So We can either get to a point where everyone has to run like 4x dedecopod+Smiters off color Just to play vs jund. Or people having to run blue decks with counterspells to stop the early decimation of their hands. The Deck that I may play sunday if I play Is the 2nd and I feel I can beat jund but not everyone is going to have 6+ 1 drop counters to not get raped by turn 2 hymn.
There is a decent mix of viable archetypes in the format.
My opinions on the bannings:
How is decree of justice banned?
Hymn, Berserk, probably both need to be allowed but monitored closely.
other bits: Using the promo and in some case lowest foil costs on cards would give us access to more great cards. *lightning bolt is the number one. It is easily available for pennies from several vendors. Many have bolts for the reason, hey they are bolts. I should have these.
So in summary, is it fair to say that we are in agreement that Decree of Justice should be unbanned? (noting that the UW Control archetype has already been nerfed due to the banning of Fact or Fiction and Counterspell).
If Hymn to Tourach stays legal, then it will be a crazy situation if the innocent Decree of Justice is banned.
As for Zuran Orb, I wasn't around when it was banned. Does anybody know why it was banned? I won't mess around with the banlist without at least understanding the reason it was banned, so I can evaluate the danger of unbans.
If you want to take a ride on the way back machine, you can dig through the 300 posts from the old forum and see if there's an answer there.
edit: took a ride on the way back machine myself. It has been banned since at least 2014. (see attached)
edit 2: Holy crap Heirloom used to be really popular, going back on the old PRE forums I've found Standard Heirloom, Singleton Heirloom, and even Longtimegone trying to host a heirloom cube draft. O.O
edit 3: I think I found the reason, since heirloom was based on the classic format (instead of legacy), balance was once a card that you could play. It makes sense that Balance + Orb would get one or both of those cards banned.
Is there a standard way to get in heirloom practice matches? Do people hang out in the chat room when tournies aren't happening? Really love brewing in this format and would like to play more games, feel free to message me on MTGO if you're interested. Username: PauperRBust
is misthollow griffin doing something that eternal scourge isnt doing to be banned?
The question of why Griffin was banned has been brought up before. This is all I know about it, and it actually sounds like an interesting (but not broken) deck.
[quote from="SenseiRob »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/magic-online-formats/other-mtgo-formats/641612-classic-heirloom-every-friday-sunday-now-in-our-10?comment=55"][quote from="Honorbound84 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/magic-online-formats/other-mtgo-formats/641612-classic-heirloom-every-friday-sunday-now-in-our-10?comment=26"]
I don't know what this had to do with my original post. Anyway, banning a card only for a specific deck is weird/unfair. Decree of Justice should be allowed for every deck, I doubt it will impact the format. The ban list for Heirloom atm seems clunky and unusual. I was with the format when the bans occurred and I still don't understand the reasoning fully. It seems a ton of mediocre cards (Griffin/Decree etc.) are banned while overpowered cards are not. I can elaborate as needed.
I had to look at the banned list to see what griffin was banned, and now I want to know what deck caused this. How is Misthollow Griffin broken in any deck that's not food chain? Food Chain is clearly not in this format... why is this banned?
Misthollow Griffin was banned in an Heirloom CawBlade deck. It was a "fair" deck which used Squadron Hawk to fill up your hand and Empyrial Plate as the primary equipment to pump it. Misthollow Griffin enabled two powerful interactions. The first being Manipulate Fate, which in conjunction with Misthollow Griffin was tantamount to drawing 4 cards for 2 mana. The second being Moorland Haunt, which enabled you to exile Misthollow Griffin from your gy, and replay it from exile. These interactions were slow, fair, and easily answered by Pithing Needle. The deck was moderately weak to combo and aggro but it decimated control. Everyone back in those days loved playing control so it became banned. Kinda silly now in light of the fact that legitimately broken cards such as Cloudpost and Goblin Lackey are allowed. I don't want Cloudpost to be banned but I want consistency. Don't allow broken cards but ban fair cards just because people win with the fair cards. When I was playing every week it seemed as if whenever I had a winning deck cards in that deck would get banned, regardless of whether those cards were legitimately broken, or whether I had just designed a good deck and played well.
If I'm on, I'll help with play testing, I usually have several decks built for the format. (Username gumgod on MTGO)
Thanks for the heads up.
1. There are 60 Card Standard Heirloom Singleton, Classic Heirloom, Heirloom Kaleidoscope, Legacy Heirloom and Standard Heirloom. I guess Classic Heirloom is the most popular because is the only one I've seen a thread in this forum. I know this thread is only about Classic Heirloom but I just would like to know which of the others formats are the most played. Why is Classic preferred over Legacy? The Standard Heirloom seems to use cards that are not in Standard, why is that?
2. When I first heared about Heirloom the price limits were $0.05, $0.10, $0.20 and $1.00, now they are 0.13, 0.25, 0.5 and 1.5. When did that change and why?
3. This is supposed to be a extremely budget format but when I introduce a deck I like into TCGplayer mass entry I see it costs $66. I know there is difference between online and paper magic but that much? What's the average price in dollars of a Heirloom deck in mtgo?
4. I would like to play this format in paper magic, is there a page like the Heirloom legality checker for paper magic?
5. Do you know how to contact the person who created the Heirloom legality checker? I would like to make a page like that taking the prices from MagicCardMarket which is where I use to buy cards.
6. If you know someone who wants to play this format in cockatrice let me know.
0.o so i can build the UW tempo deck ive wanted to build for 4 months? now i have to show up for the first week this rotation happens.
Don't get my hopes up like that
I don't agree with this type of banning. Cards should get an opportunity to prove whether or not they are oppressive through playtesting. I have read that you tried it yourself in a deck, but that doesn't really show how it holds up against the current gauntlet of things other people are playing, or that they might build with the new legality list.
goldfish the deck 15 times and get back to me if you still have that opinion..... I was going to play infect this week 100%. it goldfishes a turn 2/3 win 70% of the time. and Even can goldfish a turn 2 with with a dispel backup... Or you know just wait till turn 3 and have double counter backup lol. and this was turn 2/3 goldfish wins while running 10 counters maindeck in the one i was gonna run..
1. Fact or Fiction is banned. This was one of the reasons I love Heirloom format, because it is a super sweet card and it did not seem to be dominating the events.
2. Decree of Justice is completely banned. I do not agree with that decision, because the popular blue/white control deck has now lost Counterspell and Fact or Fiction. Completely banning a fair white card seems too harsh. I realise that it is too awkward to ban it in non-white decks, therefore I recommend making it legal in all decks.
I am happy that Invigorate is banned, because the power level of that card is too huge in this format. Cards which can be cast for free and can win the game on turn 2 are too powerful in my opinion. The infect deck can already kill on Turn 2, so it makes sense to reduce the amount of times a Turn 2 win is achievable.
If this is the case, then I recommend during the next rotation to ban Hymn to Tourach. If Decree of Justice is banned in all decks, then it is absurd that Hymn to Tourach is allowed (given that the Hymn is both incredibly powerful AND rampant). Decree of Justice, on the other hand, if used in an Azorius or Esper deck, must contend with having no Counterspells, no Facts or Fictions, and an awkward mana base.
Today I wanted to use Decree of Justice in a fair way in a mono white deck (to give me reach against Draw-Go decks), and yet it was not possible.
(And yes I use Hymn myself in my black decks, but only because the card is completely bonkers and yet somehow legal).
These are my thoughts with all respect to everyone.
its funny you say that cause after looking at the results of last night I was coming here to say the same thing... Ive Felt this way for a while but Didn't really bring it up because I was playing zoo and people were playing zoo so Jund had a true counter... But Honestly Hymn needs to be watched for the next few months. and if jund keeps being consistently the best deck Hymn needs to go. Like hymn is just too destructive of a card and it limits what can be run in this format because turn 2 hymn you just lose sometimes to no lands left or all your gas gone. Overall I think banning it wouldn't kill jund they would just have to go down to 4x duress or 4x the creature one and have to play "fair" cards. rather than having the best discard spell every printed.
Losing BBE didn't really hurt jund as it wasn't that broken in the deck. Losing BBE killed decks like zoo that relied on getting 7-8 power off of it and since zoo is now basically dead the natural counter to Jund (zoo) isn't around. So We can either get to a point where everyone has to run like 4x dedecopod+Smiters off color Just to play vs jund. Or people having to run blue decks with counterspells to stop the early decimation of their hands. The Deck that I may play sunday if I play Is the 2nd and I feel I can beat jund but not everyone is going to have 6+ 1 drop counters to not get raped by turn 2 hymn.
There is a decent mix of viable archetypes in the format.
My opinions on the bannings:
How is decree of justice banned?
Hymn, Berserk, probably both need to be allowed but monitored closely.
other bits: Using the promo and in some case lowest foil costs on cards would give us access to more great cards. *lightning bolt is the number one. It is easily available for pennies from several vendors. Many have bolts for the reason, hey they are bolts. I should have these.
If Hymn to Tourach stays legal, then it will be a crazy situation if the innocent Decree of Justice is banned.
I asked on page 3 of this thread, and Holica asked on page 8, no one has ever supplied the reason.
If you want to take a ride on the way back machine, you can dig through the 300 posts from the old forum and see if there's an answer there.
edit: took a ride on the way back machine myself. It has been banned since at least 2014. (see attached)
edit 2: Holy crap Heirloom used to be really popular, going back on the old PRE forums I've found Standard Heirloom, Singleton Heirloom, and even Longtimegone trying to host a heirloom cube draft. O.O
edit 3: I think I found the reason, since heirloom was based on the classic format (instead of legacy), balance was once a card that you could play. It makes sense that Balance + Orb would get one or both of those cards banned.
The question of why Griffin was banned has been brought up before. This is all I know about it, and it actually sounds like an interesting (but not broken) deck.