When TLR and me talked through the ban list prior. I tried my hardest to get Dark Ritual unbanned instead of tendrils but alas it wasn't to be so we went with the conservative choice and its worked well... I do think DR would be busted but at the time we were coming off ceph and nothing I could brew was ceph level Busted :)...
Anyways I hate post too So Ill add my 2 cents even though i havn't been able to play in a while. Post has proven again to be too strong. and as it was already almost banned once. This time just pull the trigger please. No one likes playing against post decks. Most of them are Lock/hard Control decks that really are not fun to play against on top of being overpowered.
Anyways Just let me know when champs is ill be back soon though.
Also RIP saheeli Rah Glad I got my set I bought for heirloom She is up to $10 dollars now thanks to that AR spoiled card that makes a standard legal splinter twin lol.
yeah its just at the time Dark Ritual decks would have still been 1 turn behind Cephalid decks :)... But yeah not sure it would ever been fine to come back.
However I would ask that maybe we Ban cloudpost for the Championships given the format thing? I mean I could run 4 different colored Cloudpost varients in 3 different rounds....
Swiss Blue Post (Fars Multi Time Winning deck)
T8 Green Post (Multi time t4 deck)
T4 UW Post Lock (Multi Time Winning deck)
T2 GR Post Ramp. (Brew that Ive thought about but never ran)
I've been out of the loop for a while, but I really like cloudpost decks. Have they really been that bad? Has no one played price of progress.dek to beat these?
Come on, today's final had 2 Cloudpost.decs... With much less results than the cloudpost tons os players wanted cephalid's ban... It just was not banned because narcomeba was out of heirloom price range, but cloudpost ban is a must need for the heirloom health
Hello guys, I'm here to do a simple question, how healthy is cloudpost in heirloom?
Today we hasd 2 cloudpost decks in the final.
Before anyone gives me an answer, let's think a little more about this.
Cloudpost was banned in formats where there isn't restrictions about cards values, in modern I can't say anything, because i don't know the motive of his ban, in pauper cloudpost dominated the format until banned, or played with cloudpost ou against him.
In heirloom is not diferent, how many decks have disappeared? how many decks can't see play because of clouspost decks?
I have played with cloudpost in the last 2 events before I post this, to know if the deck is really all that, and yes, the deck is extremely powerful for the environment and i think that decerves to be banned.
While Cloudpost archetypes are overpowered, there are options other than banning it. Instead of killing the deck, maybe banning either Glimmerpost or Eye of ugin could allow the deck to exist without being as oppresive. Giving the format more time to adjust, and add Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge is another option that could tone down the deck.
Additionally, unbanning some cards could help the format.
Goblin Recruiter- While it is banned in legacy, this is only due to time constraints in paper, while on MTGO players have a clock. The issue with this is that it would force the format to be played under the vintage filter instead of legacy.
Question #1: The deck currently is too consistent and oppressive to continue to exist without any change. That leaves banning one of the three options below:
- Cloudpost: I am completely against killing a deck unless completely necessary. Banning Cloudpost kills the deck.
- Glimmerpost: This would give the deck a far worse aggro matchup, while giving it worse consistency at assembling enough mana to cast fatties.
- Eye of Ugin: Banning this would give the deck a far worse end game. This would allow other control decks to exist while not hurting any other deck. The deck would most likely have to replace it with Sanctum of Ugin
If something needed to be banned, I would recommend banning Glimmerpost, as it takes away a lot of the deck's consistency, as well as hurting the deck's aggro matchup. Doing so would also allow a ramp version to exist.
Unbanning cards is also an option. A poll should probably be opened asking what cards should be banned/unbanned.
Lastly, if Eye of Ugin would be banned, instead just say it can't be run in the same deck as Cloudpost. The card can be used in other decks after all.
So my questions are:
- What do you think should be banned? Cloudpost? Glimmerpost? Eye of Ugin?
- Why shouldn't I ban it before the Invitational?
- What card is banned in pauper and modern? Cloudpost or Glimmerpost? Ban cloudpost seems fair. Will it kill a deck? For sure, as Invigorate's ban killed infect, Worldgorger Dragon's ban killed a deck, Blazing Shoal's ban killed a deck, Necrotic Ooze's ban killed a deck, Sword of the Meek's ban killed a deck, Hypergenesis's ban killed a deck and Misthollow Griffin's ban killed a deck until last edition. Cloudpost decks kicks other decks from the metagame too lol. Kill a deck is not really a bad thing.
- It should be banned before the invitational... a emergency ban is what the format needs, dont need to wait the rotation for it.
1. TLR_TLR: I am new to the format, and my username is the same. My schedule clears up in a couple of weeks and then I will join the format.
2. Banning Glimmerpost will hurt the deck while allowing more decks to exist. The deck would not be nearly as oppresive and gives the format more options.
3. Whatever is going to be banned needs to be banned soon.
Now I'm going to bring a suggestion that no one has brought yet.
If you want to target ban cards based solely off the deck and not the power level of the cards.
Ban Glimmerpost And Expedition Map..
Both are replaceable but Would slow the deck down immensely. and make you run 4x post 4x thespian Stage (which is a slow card) and 4x Slyvan Scrying Or some other higher mana cost land search. So you can still have the super late game Post mana base. but no Map to play search up my posts or search up my 1x's for COLORLESS MANA would make people forced to run colors like Green for Sylvan Scrying Making the deck slightly less consistant because you would have to drop an actual land to play it or play it off a Star/sphere whatever is legal Like Modern Tron decks are forced to do.
I dont think banning two cards that are reasonable cards so that the problem card can still be allowed to just "maybe" be a problem going forward is an efficient answer to the problem.
There haven't been alot of people even putting up real attempts at trying to solve the problem with cloudpost in actual game play. This season has been one of target whatever won the previous week if its obvious(gW midrange in response to burn)(then cloudpost to hose the midrange creature decks). Or just play whatever won and snowball the chances of the better deck winning more often.
If the case is that cloudpost is far and away superior, which TLR has shown math as such, it should be the target for ban IMO. I personally would like bannings to come along with rotation announcements for sake of clarity and preparation by the field of competitors.
If everyone feels its alot of gambling on which matchup the round you play cloudpost gets for the invitational deck and wants it banned for that (assuming a ban at rotation) I can get behind that, but dont personally have a preference either way pre season end.
I dont think banning two cards that are reasonable cards so that the problem card can still be allowed to just "maybe" be a problem going forward is an efficient answer to the problem.
There haven't been alot of people even putting up real attempts at trying to solve the problem with cloudpost in actual game play. This season has been one of target whatever won the previous week if its obvious(gW midrange in response to burn)(then cloudpost to hose the midrange creature decks). Or just play whatever won and snowball the chances of the better deck winning more often.
If the case is that cloudpost is far and away superior, which TLR has shown math as such, it should be the target for ban IMO. I personally would like bannings to come along with rotation announcements for sake of clarity and preparation by the field of competitors.
If everyone feels its alot of gambling on which matchup the round you play cloudpost gets for the invitational deck and wants it banned for that (assuming a ban at rotation) I can get behind that, but dont personally have a preference either way pre season end.
The problem is if you don't ban 2 cards you have to just ban post...
Post doesn't need glimmerpost to win and Expedition map is Cloudpost 5-8 and Ugin 2-5 ect ect...
Expedition map goes in every cloudpost deck as a 4x regardless of color and makes you not run colored mana to get the lands. Taking out map will slow the deck and make you make meaningful Color Choices. but if you take out only map you gotta hit Glimmer too.
But my list of cards by order of importance.
#1 Cloudpost (kills the deck)
#2 Expedition map (hurts consistantcy of fast mana)
#3 Glimmerpost (no lifegain)
#4 Ugin (without Map you can't run 1x and its harder)
EDIT how is eye of ugin even legal? Foils are not supposed to affect
Neither of the rare versions went below 70 cents after KD release and the Only version that did get within the price was The masterpiece promo with 0 in stock because no site was dealing in non foil Masterpieces untill treasure chests became tradeable (which is why you see it jump up to 6 dollars) https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Zendikar Expeditions/Eye of Ugin#online
.... Eye should have never been legal in the first place and was an oversight....
But I mean take out Map or Glimmer or both and Eye will rotate since mastepiece pricing (which shouldn't even matter) is now fixed and at 6 dollars.
I played on Sunday, and Cloudpost felt like it was my most interactive match up, whereas the other games were decided by turn 3. In four rounds I played Jund, Jund, Cloudpost, bye. It's a small sample size, but back to back jund made me scoop my last game early because all my games up till that point seemed the same and thought I had another game in that round.
This makes no sense to me. If you ban map you potentially hurt other decks, and glimmerpost could be used for life gain without cloudpost, but it's not broken. If you're going to ban this deck, ban the namesake card, otherwise people will be playing thespian's stages and maybe ancient stirrings/sylvan scrying.
Neither of the rare versions went below 70 cents after KD release and the Only version that did get within the price was The masterpiece promo with 0 in stock because no site was dealing in non foil Masterpieces untill treasure chests became tradeable (which is why you see it jump up to 6 dollars) https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Zendikar Expeditions/Eye of Ugin#online
.... Eye should have never been legal in the first place and was an oversight....
The original printing (in Worldwake) was a mythic, not a rare, so if it's under $1.50 then it's playable.
Also, just getting caught up on this thread. I appreciate seeing actual numbers. My vote is just to ban cloudpost, not eye or map.
On a Non banning sidenote
Smuggler's Copter is now down to 45 cents and has a good chance of coming in next rotation with its standard ban. Wonder if anyone has any idea's for it my RW vehicles deck I had brewed a while back would love 4x Smugglers.
Not to mention Scrapheap Scrounger Might be making its way into the format as one of the ultimate anti control cards... My Jundvine deck may finally get a chance to shine next next rotation as long as cryptbreaker stays legal :).
On a Non banning sidenote
Smuggler's Copter is now down to 45 cents and has a good chance of coming in next rotation with its standard ban. Wonder if anyone has any idea's for it my RW vehicles deck I had brewed a while back would love 4x Smugglers.
Not to mention Scrapheap Scrounger Might be making its way into the format as one of the ultimate anti control cards... My Jundvine deck may finally get a chance to shine next next rotation as long as cryptbreaker stays legal :).
Ban two cards instead of cloudpost? Come on, it does not make sense. Ban cloudpost, there is no other card to ban. And ban it before the invitational, we dont want tons of cloudpost variants playing it.
Expedition Map is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Glimmerpost is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Eye of Ugin is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
All these cards are not op without Cloudpost, Cloudpost is the root of the problem. Banning it will restore the heirloom metagame's health.
Ban two cards instead of cloudpost? Come on, it does not make sense. Ban cloudpost, there is no other card to ban. And ban it before the invitational, we dont want tons of cloudpost variants playing it.
Expedition Map is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Glimmerpost is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Eye of Ugin is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
All these cards are not op without Cloudpost, Cloudpost is the root of the problem. Banning it will restore the heirloom metagame's health.
Summer Bloom was banned in modern to slow a deck down without banning the card that actually broke the deck (Amulet)
Ban two cards instead of cloudpost? Come on, it does not make sense. Ban cloudpost, there is no other card to ban. And ban it before the invitational, we dont want tons of cloudpost variants playing it.
Expedition Map is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Glimmerpost is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Eye of Ugin is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
All these cards are not op without Cloudpost, Cloudpost is the root of the problem. Banning it will restore the heirloom metagame's health.
Summer Bloom was banned in modern to slow a deck down without banning the card that actually broke the deck (Amulet)
Cloudpost isn't a deck that wins by speed, it's a deck that wins by consistency. The other cards in the deck are replaceable.
Ban two cards instead of cloudpost? Come on, it does not make sense. Ban cloudpost, there is no other card to ban. And ban it before the invitational, we dont want tons of cloudpost variants playing it.
Expedition Map is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Glimmerpost is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Eye of Ugin is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
All these cards are not op without Cloudpost, Cloudpost is the root of the problem. Banning it will restore the heirloom metagame's health.
Summer Bloom was banned in modern to slow a deck down without banning the card that actually broke the deck (Amulet)
Summer Bloom allow turn 2 win lol
I can't belive that you compare both cases, really.
One is a hard control that has tons of mana (with Cloudpost) on middle-late game, the other is a combo that wins on turno 2. It does not make sense, as banning Expedition Map + Glimmerpost.
If Cloudpost is as oppressive as it was stated (ruins diversity, it's overpowered etc.) and we aren't sure about the rotation date, then I think it must be banned before rotation.
Hi guys i'm DuckX at MOL, i think the emergency ban of cloudpost is necessary because if this ban won't happen we know how will be the results of heirloom's invitional, will be like the last top 4 weakly tourment. I have some points about why ban cloudpost and not glimmerpost, the main point is glimmerpost without cloudpost is nothing... Second, cloudpost with blue color generate a huge advantage in cantrips, mana ramp and have the power to resolve the game in few turns, without reckless in RDW and invigorate in Infect we don't have many faster decks, so the cloudpost ban going bring the balance and way to new decks to the format in my opinion.
About the ban of CLOUDPOST this is practically a certainty, now the moment of this ban is not sure, but first, let's observe the pic.
With a quick look at the table we can see that in the last 10 events, and in this event, the decks with CLOUDPOST were champions in 6 of them and in only 1 event the decks with CLOUDPOST did not make top4.
I believe that with this small table CLOUDPOST should be banned before the invitational, otherwise we will see mirrors and mirros of this deck.
ATTACHMENTS
cloudpost
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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When TLR and me talked through the ban list prior. I tried my hardest to get Dark Ritual unbanned instead of tendrils but alas it wasn't to be so we went with the conservative choice and its worked well... I do think DR would be busted but at the time we were coming off ceph and nothing I could brew was ceph level Busted :)...
Anyways I hate post too So Ill add my 2 cents even though i havn't been able to play in a while. Post has proven again to be too strong. and as it was already almost banned once. This time just pull the trigger please. No one likes playing against post decks. Most of them are Lock/hard Control decks that really are not fun to play against on top of being overpowered.
Anyways Just let me know when champs is
Also RIP saheeli Rah Glad I got my set I bought for heirloom She is up to $10 dollars now thanks to that AR spoiled card that makes a standard legal splinter twin lol.
However I would ask that maybe we Ban cloudpost for the Championships given the format thing? I mean I could run 4 different colored Cloudpost varients in 3 different rounds....
Swiss Blue Post (Fars Multi Time Winning deck)
T8 Green Post (Multi time t4 deck)
T4 UW Post Lock (Multi Time Winning deck)
T2 GR Post Ramp. (Brew that Ive thought about but never ran)
what is that 6 wins in last 8 events now? that deserves an emergency ban.
Today we hasd 2 cloudpost decks in the final.
Before anyone gives me an answer, let's think a little more about this.
Cloudpost was banned in formats where there isn't restrictions about cards values, in modern I can't say anything, because i don't know the motive of his ban, in pauper cloudpost dominated the format until banned, or played with cloudpost ou against him.
In heirloom is not diferent, how many decks have disappeared? how many decks can't see play because of clouspost decks?
I have played with cloudpost in the last 2 events before I post this, to know if the deck is really all that, and yes, the deck is extremely powerful for the environment and i think that decerves to be banned.
Additionally, unbanning some cards could help the format.
- Cloudpost: I am completely against killing a deck unless completely necessary. Banning Cloudpost kills the deck.
- Glimmerpost: This would give the deck a far worse aggro matchup, while giving it worse consistency at assembling enough mana to cast fatties.
- Eye of Ugin: Banning this would give the deck a far worse end game. This would allow other control decks to exist while not hurting any other deck. The deck would most likely have to replace it with Sanctum of Ugin
If something needed to be banned, I would recommend banning Glimmerpost, as it takes away a lot of the deck's consistency, as well as hurting the deck's aggro matchup. Doing so would also allow a ramp version to exist.
Unbanning cards is also an option. A poll should probably be opened asking what cards should be banned/unbanned.
Lastly, if Eye of Ugin would be banned, instead just say it can't be run in the same deck as Cloudpost. The card can be used in other decks after all.
- What card is banned in pauper and modern? Cloudpost or Glimmerpost? Ban cloudpost seems fair. Will it kill a deck? For sure, as Invigorate's ban killed infect, Worldgorger Dragon's ban killed a deck, Blazing Shoal's ban killed a deck, Necrotic Ooze's ban killed a deck, Sword of the Meek's ban killed a deck, Hypergenesis's ban killed a deck and Misthollow Griffin's ban killed a deck until last edition. Cloudpost decks kicks other decks from the metagame too lol. Kill a deck is not really a bad thing.
- It should be banned before the invitational... a emergency ban is what the format needs, dont need to wait the rotation for it.
2. Banning Glimmerpost will hurt the deck while allowing more decks to exist. The deck would not be nearly as oppresive and gives the format more options.
3. Whatever is going to be banned needs to be banned soon.
If you want to target ban cards based solely off the deck and not the power level of the cards.
Ban Glimmerpost And Expedition Map..
Both are replaceable but Would slow the deck down immensely. and make you run 4x post 4x thespian Stage (which is a slow card) and 4x Slyvan Scrying Or some other higher mana cost land search. So you can still have the super late game Post mana base. but no Map to play search up my posts or search up my 1x's for COLORLESS MANA would make people forced to run colors like Green for Sylvan Scrying Making the deck slightly less consistant because you would have to drop an actual land to play it or play it off a Star/sphere whatever is legal Like Modern Tron decks are forced to do.
There haven't been alot of people even putting up real attempts at trying to solve the problem with cloudpost in actual game play. This season has been one of target whatever won the previous week if its obvious(gW midrange in response to burn)(then cloudpost to hose the midrange creature decks). Or just play whatever won and snowball the chances of the better deck winning more often.
If the case is that cloudpost is far and away superior, which TLR has shown math as such, it should be the target for ban IMO. I personally would like bannings to come along with rotation announcements for sake of clarity and preparation by the field of competitors.
If everyone feels its alot of gambling on which matchup the round you play cloudpost gets for the invitational deck and wants it banned for that (assuming a ban at rotation) I can get behind that, but dont personally have a preference either way pre season end.
The problem is if you don't ban 2 cards you have to just ban post...
Post doesn't need glimmerpost to win and Expedition map is Cloudpost 5-8 and Ugin 2-5 ect ect...
Expedition map goes in every cloudpost deck as a 4x regardless of color and makes you not run colored mana to get the lands. Taking out map will slow the deck and make you make meaningful Color Choices. but if you take out only map you gotta hit Glimmer too.
But my list of cards by order of importance.
#1 Cloudpost (kills the deck)
#2 Expedition map (hurts consistantcy of fast mana)
#3 Glimmerpost (no lifegain)
#4 Ugin (without Map you can't run 1x and its harder)
EDIT how is eye of ugin even legal? Foils are not supposed to affect
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Modern Masters 2015/Eye of Ugin#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Worldwake/Eye of Ugin#online
Neither of the rare versions went below 70 cents after KD release and the Only version that did get within the price was The masterpiece promo with 0 in stock because no site was dealing in non foil Masterpieces untill treasure chests became tradeable (which is why you see it jump up to 6 dollars)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Zendikar Expeditions/Eye of Ugin#online
.... Eye should have never been legal in the first place and was an oversight....
But I mean take out Map or Glimmer or both and Eye will rotate since mastepiece pricing (which shouldn't even matter) is now fixed and at 6 dollars.
This makes no sense to me. If you ban map you potentially hurt other decks, and glimmerpost could be used for life gain without cloudpost, but it's not broken. If you're going to ban this deck, ban the namesake card, otherwise people will be playing thespian's stages and maybe ancient stirrings/sylvan scrying.
The original printing (in Worldwake) was a mythic, not a rare, so if it's under $1.50 then it's playable.
Also, just getting caught up on this thread. I appreciate seeing actual numbers. My vote is just to ban cloudpost, not eye or map.
Smuggler's Copter is now down to 45 cents and has a good chance of coming in next rotation with its standard ban. Wonder if anyone has any idea's for it
Not to mention Scrapheap Scrounger Might be making its way into the format as one of the ultimate anti control cards... My Jundvine deck may finally get a chance to shine next next rotation as long as cryptbreaker stays legal :).
Reflector mage should enter as well.
Expedition Map is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Glimmerpost is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
Eye of Ugin is not a problem, Cloudpost is.
All these cards are not op without Cloudpost, Cloudpost is the root of the problem. Banning it will restore the heirloom metagame's health.
Summer Bloom was banned in modern to slow a deck down without banning the card that actually broke the deck (Amulet)
Cloudpost isn't a deck that wins by speed, it's a deck that wins by consistency. The other cards in the deck are replaceable.
Summer Bloom allow turn 2 win lol
I can't belive that you compare both cases, really.
One is a hard control that has tons of mana (with Cloudpost) on middle-late game, the other is a combo that wins on turno 2. It does not make sense, as banning Expedition Map + Glimmerpost.
If Cloudpost is as oppressive as it was stated (ruins diversity, it's overpowered etc.) and we aren't sure about the rotation date, then I think it must be banned before rotation.
About the ban of CLOUDPOST this is practically a certainty, now the moment of this ban is not sure, but first, let's observe the pic.
With a quick look at the table we can see that in the last 10 events, and in this event, the decks with CLOUDPOST were champions in 6 of them and in only 1 event the decks with CLOUDPOST did not make top4.
I believe that with this small table CLOUDPOST should be banned before the invitational, otherwise we will see mirrors and mirros of this deck.