So the idea comes from a few underplayed cards in the format that I would like to try. Land destruction is good against many deck. Tron is the first deck that will come to your mind, but notice how Green Stompy keeps one-lander, MBC plays without that many lands either (and will keep 2 lands with Sign in Blood), Delver (and all blue decks) tend to play less lands because of Ponder, Preordain, etc. (I play 18 lands in my UR Kiln Fiend deck) and my friend is playing Zoo, which is all about Nylea's Presence so... yeah.
First of all, the land destruction spells (I didn't list all of them since some are really bad but I think I cover up pretty much that area):
I think ~20-22 lands is needed to play the deck, at least 20 land destruction spells (24 would be best), 2-4 cards to win and 10-16 permanent cards to ramp to compensate the low land count considering we are sometimes sacrificing lands.
Maybe Krosan Tusker or some kind of draw spell, I'm not sure, but having Raze or a turn 2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss (thanks to Lumberjack) can completely kill your opponent.
Any thoughts on this? Quite inexpensive also. I know the Torch used to be bugged on MTGO but it's for a paper version (using MTGO legal cards) with my friends.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Uh... Sinkhole seems like the logical option here.
On that note, you could go RB with Smallpox and Crack The Earth basically functions as a Raze if put down turn 1.
Edit: Forgot Smallpox is uncommon. Still relevant for peasant though.
Sinkhole is banned on MTGO since it has never been printed as a Common. We are following MTGO guidelines so that we don't have to worry about a home-banlist. Don't forget, this is the pauper section... Smallpox has never been printed at Common level either. Crack the Earth is interesting but most pauper decks have turn 1 play.
Thanks for your input though! Turn 2 multiple Crack the Earth could be good but I think it would be a little bit too hard to accomplish.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I suspect if you don't have more early creature removal you'll be in trouble. I also question thermokarst due to the GG requirement. Wouldn't molten rain be better? It makes it slightly easier on your manabase as then you only need to worry about RR early on instead of both RR and GG which is only really possible with the turn 1 mountain, lumberjack into turn two forest start.
I suspect if you don't have more early creature removal you'll be in trouble. I also question thermokarst due to the GG requirement. Wouldn't molten rain be better? It makes it slightly easier on your manabase as then you only need to worry about RR early on instead of both RR and GG which is only really possible with the turn 1 mountain, lumberjack into turn two forest start.
What about Firebolt? Kills most early threats, can be used again late game.
I agree on Thermokarst but double-red isn't exactly better. Overgrown Battlement only produces green, Wall of Roots too. Tinder Wall is good for red but I'm not sure I want to keep it on the list, sacricing the creature doesn't really help for the game-plan, Axebane Guardian might be better.
The Aurochs Herd package is another option as far as card advantage goes (this is better than Squadron Hawk in this deck). If destroying land isn't working, game 2 could be played with the Aurochs, Crushers and Rolling Thunders. Also, Roiling Terrain is really good in the current meta with Treasure Cruise and all the fetch lands (it's good BEFORE Treasure Cruise is played, obviously; probably some graveyard hate would be needed because of that, or Mana Tithe/Daze with 1 Island/Plain and more Terramorphic Expanse).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I mean, there are a lot of possibilites with GR. Tilling Treefolk has to be considered too. The problem is not destroying lands but actually winning before turn 53.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Doesn't Firebolt addresses the Delver situation?
And the fact that T1 decks don't play many lands is exactly the reason to play LD, isn't it?
Raze is the all-star here, I certainly don't want to drop it lol, I playtested a little bit on MTGO and turn 1 Raze is nearly an auto-win. The opponent will need a few turns before drawing the land he needs to cast that second Ponder or that Sign in Blood and that's GG.
Lumberjack just allows to follow that same plan with turn 2 4CC spells. Destroying only one land in the first 2 turns is usually enough to mana screw your opponent and you will be able to destroy another one by the time they recover.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
This deck looks really interesting. I would agree that LD is an open opportunity, but would consider balancing it out a little bit. Splashing blue might be worth it with mnemonic wall, though probably not the more I think about it :S.
But I would definitely add in Tilling Treefolk and Crack the Earth - this will help you kill creatures too in the early game until you can afford the land destruction, but doubles as LD, so I think its a nice card. Vine Trellis may be slower than Llanowar Elves but it works better with Axebane Guardian and Overgrown Battlement
Also since youre playing green/red, just seems logical to make room for manamorphose and speed the deck up/help with mana fixing
I might also consider playing Rugged Highlands because the life gain can really help in Pauper
By the way - lots of props to you DnLL for actively helping develop so many cool decks You have won my admiration
Thank you, but honestly, this deck (GR LD) is probably the only one I really made from scratch. All the other decks I ever played are based on other decklists I found while browsing the Web.
This deck is just a different approach to the format, Orcish Lumberjack is hands down the best acceleration you can get in pauper (5 mana on turn 2) so that's why I got the idea of this deck. A turn 2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss or even a turn 2 Thermokarst after a turn 1 Llanowar Elves is usually enough to win game 1 since your opponents don't expect this at all and let's face it, we are all greedy when it comes down to opening hands, people usually keep 2 lands with 5 spells on the draw because they only need to draw 1 land in the first 3 turns to get their hand going, but Raze (or Crack the Earth which is a nice find since you don't sacrifice as an additional cost if it gets countered) can set back your opponent long enough to draw some more LD spells and mana and then just win with Roiling Terrain and a well timed Kaervek's Torch.
It's definitely not a great deck. It's just a different approach if you really want to piss off your opponents and it definitely can win some matches. Even against Red Burn, when they keep only 1 land (and they don't play a lot of lands). I didn't playtest this deck since the release of Treasure Cruise, your opponents can now get some value with what they discard (because they have 8 cards and no lands) but I don't think it should matter really much. Dropping an island on turn 8 to play TC for 1 mana and then discarding all the cards you have just drawn...
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Well I have been playing this deck online and getting CREAMED! While the land destruction made for a long, drawn out game, there was no BITE in it, very little card draw (and I used my deck list with manamorphose) and no finishers (Treasure Crusie makes the Roiling Terrain significantly weaker) and the Torch I used mostly to defend myself. But, I am not giving up on this deck, I am thinking about tweaking the creatures (getting rid of the walls) and will see what happens!
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First of all, the land destruction spells (I didn't list all of them since some are really bad but I think I cover up pretty much that area):
- Raze
- Thermokarst
- Stone Rain
- Molten Rain
- Aftershock
- Craterize
- Demolish
- Desecration Plague
- Earth Rift
- Icefall
- Lay Waste
- Melt Terrain
- Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
- Reap and Sow
- Roiling Terrain
- Seismic Spike
- Frenzied Tilling
- Plunder
Now, winning conditions: Ulamog's Crusher or Kaervek's Torch, and obviously Roiling Terrain.Mass-mana producing creatures: Axebane Guardian, Wall of Roots, Tinder Wall, Orcish Lumberjack and Overgrown Battlement.
I think ~20-22 lands is needed to play the deck, at least 20 land destruction spells (24 would be best), 2-4 cards to win and 10-16 permanent cards to ramp to compensate the low land count considering we are sometimes sacrificing lands.
Here's a sample decklist:
8 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
Land destruction: 22
4 Raze
4 Thermokarst
4 Stone Rain
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Roiling Terrain
2 Earth Rift
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Wall of Roots
4 Tinder Walls
4 Orcish Lumberjack
Win: 4
2 Ulamog's Crusher
2 Kaervek's Torch
Maybe Krosan Tusker or some kind of draw spell, I'm not sure, but having Raze or a turn 2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss (thanks to Lumberjack) can completely kill your opponent.
Any thoughts on this? Quite inexpensive also. I know the Torch used to be bugged on MTGO but it's for a paper version (using MTGO legal cards) with my friends.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
On that note, you could go RB with Smallpox and Crack The Earth basically functions as a Raze if put down turn 1.
Edit: Forgot Smallpox is uncommon. Still relevant for peasant though.
Thanks for your input though! Turn 2 multiple Crack the Earth could be good but I think it would be a little bit too hard to accomplish.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
What about Firebolt? Kills most early threats, can be used again late game.
I agree on Thermokarst but double-red isn't exactly better. Overgrown Battlement only produces green, Wall of Roots too. Tinder Wall is good for red but I'm not sure I want to keep it on the list, sacricing the creature doesn't really help for the game-plan, Axebane Guardian might be better.
I think Lumberjack is a necessity. Llanowar Elves could help that turn 2 Thermokarst though.
10 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
Land destruction: 18
4 Raze
3 Thermokarst
3 Stone Rain
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Roiling Terrain
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Wall of Roots
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Orcish Lumberjack
Win/removal: 6
2 Kaervek's Torch
4 Firebolt
4 Aurochs Herd
3 Ulamog's Crusher
3 Rolling Tunder
3 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
The Aurochs Herd package is another option as far as card advantage goes (this is better than Squadron Hawk in this deck). If destroying land isn't working, game 2 could be played with the Aurochs, Crushers and Rolling Thunders. Also, Roiling Terrain is really good in the current meta with Treasure Cruise and all the fetch lands (it's good BEFORE Treasure Cruise is played, obviously; probably some graveyard hate would be needed because of that, or Mana Tithe/Daze with 1 Island/Plain and more Terramorphic Expanse).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I mean, there are a lot of possibilites with GR. Tilling Treefolk has to be considered too. The problem is not destroying lands but actually winning before turn 53.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
And the fact that T1 decks don't play many lands is exactly the reason to play LD, isn't it?
Raze is the all-star here, I certainly don't want to drop it lol, I playtested a little bit on MTGO and turn 1 Raze is nearly an auto-win. The opponent will need a few turns before drawing the land he needs to cast that second Ponder or that Sign in Blood and that's GG.
Lumberjack just allows to follow that same plan with turn 2 4CC spells. Destroying only one land in the first 2 turns is usually enough to mana screw your opponent and you will be able to destroy another one by the time they recover.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It's working for some as a sideboard tech against karoo lands at least (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/magic-online-general/pauper/established/189712-primer-affinity?comment=152).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
But I would definitely add in Tilling Treefolk and Crack the Earth - this will help you kill creatures too in the early game until you can afford the land destruction, but doubles as LD, so I think its a nice card. Vine Trellis may be slower than Llanowar Elves but it works better with Axebane Guardian and Overgrown Battlement
Also since youre playing green/red, just seems logical to make room for manamorphose and speed the deck up/help with mana fixing
I might also consider playing Rugged Highlands because the life gain can really help in Pauper
8 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Rugged Highlands
Land destruction: 17
4 Raze
4 Crack the Earth
3 Stone Rain
3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
3 Roiling Terrain
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Vine Trellis
2 Orcish Lumberjack
2 Tilling Treefolk
Win/removal: 4
3 Kaervek's Torch
1 Firebolt
Cantrips
3x Manamorphose
4 Aurochs Herd
3 Ulamog's Crusher
3 Rolling Tunder
3 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
By the way - lots of props to you DnLL for actively helping develop so many cool decks You have won my admiration
This deck is just a different approach to the format, Orcish Lumberjack is hands down the best acceleration you can get in pauper (5 mana on turn 2) so that's why I got the idea of this deck. A turn 2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss or even a turn 2 Thermokarst after a turn 1 Llanowar Elves is usually enough to win game 1 since your opponents don't expect this at all and let's face it, we are all greedy when it comes down to opening hands, people usually keep 2 lands with 5 spells on the draw because they only need to draw 1 land in the first 3 turns to get their hand going, but Raze (or Crack the Earth which is a nice find since you don't sacrifice as an additional cost if it gets countered) can set back your opponent long enough to draw some more LD spells and mana and then just win with Roiling Terrain and a well timed Kaervek's Torch.
It's definitely not a great deck. It's just a different approach if you really want to piss off your opponents and it definitely can win some matches. Even against Red Burn, when they keep only 1 land (and they don't play a lot of lands). I didn't playtest this deck since the release of Treasure Cruise, your opponents can now get some value with what they discard (because they have 8 cards and no lands) but I don't think it should matter really much. Dropping an island on turn 8 to play TC for 1 mana and then discarding all the cards you have just drawn...
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gvlTXp-bbo
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio