I've been getting into Dungeons and Dragons and Magic at the same time. Now I know there is a homebrew RPG set in the Magic omniverse, but I was wondering if any of you have tried to incorporate the actual cards in with an RPG-esque game, and how that went. I'm very interested in trying to mesh the two together somehow and was looking for any directions someone who has gone down this path before could offer. Thanks!
I spent some significant time working on this and stalled out for one reason. Points of damage in Magic don't correlate well to HP in D&D. Also, mana is far easier to keep cranking out creatures than what wizards in D&D can do. All you have to do is have unused "talismans" with which to cast your MtG spells, whereas D&D spells are far more restrictive. I was working on a conversion to make that work. Magic would work as done in the card game only when dealing with summoned permanents. When dealing with real world creatures and PCs, the results would be less effective. A summoned creature's toughness and damage might be a d4 dice per point, so a Craw Wurm would deal 6d4 on a hit (with only a single attack), and could take 4d4 damage before it disappeared. A fireball in MtG would deal its damage in d4 per point, so X=10 would be 10d4 points of damage, and then still have to deal with saving throws and such. A MtG mage in D&D would therefore have to take down D&D enemies with a horde of summoned creatures, which would inevitably result in circus players, similar to the Necromancer and Druid in Diablo 2.
Another problem is that even a low-level mage in MtG could have a pouch of talismans and basic mana (harkening back to the original Magic novel Arena). To combat this, I did have a limiter that prevented lower level MtG mages from casting the higher CMC spells because they can only handle so much mana at a single throw, and mana burn was a very real threat if they biffed it up. Even at that, the spells don't scale well by CMC. For example, the most effective counterspell is only two mana, and a team of lesser mages could tie down a single higher-level mage. That then leads to in-game counterspell battles since in-game PCs would realize this inherent strength to counterspells. Swords to Plowshares is truly OP at 1 mana when you can take out a Blightsteel Colossus as a first level mage. See the problem with that fix?
I eventually concluded that the two systems were just too incompatible to spend my time trying to convert, even when using the cards in the game as the "talisman". A great idea, but I just don't see a chance of making it work. If you come up with a great idea, though, please do post it here, as I would be very interested to review the ideas.
Then you build a mass cardpool similar to a cube as the "dungeon" or the "instance" that the players will be venturing into. You could even assign tiny-leader commands to the decks but that seemed to complicate things for me.
Each round, 5 cards are flipped from the cube deck. Players receive 3 gold each round (lets say, 4 players) and can spend that gold to pay for colorless mana or to buy basic land from a side pool of basics (each land costs 3). Basic lands bought go straight to the graveyard, not into play. At the end of each turn, you discard your hand and draw a new one. This part is very similar to Ascension if anyone has tried that game. When your deck runs out you immediately shuffle your graveyard and start over.
Acquiring cards in the center row can be done two ways - if you want a spell, you pay its mana cost to acquire it and put it in your graveyard. You must defeat a creature by dealing damage to it with a spell or attacking it. Damage is cleared each turn just as normal MTG, so you must deal all the dmg necessary in one turn. Defeating a creature allows you to collect gold equal to its converted mana cost OR acquire it and place it in your graveyard.
Other than this center row, the game works as normal. Players can attack each other, target each other will spells, etc. The center row provides a way to "creep" or build up your strength while keeping an eye on what your opponents are doing. Sometimes the better strategy is just to go right for your opponent's head, only acquiring cards as they fit your gameplan perfectly. A card exiled is just as it was originally meant - removed from the game. It doesn't come back when your graveyard is reshuffled. A creature that's defeated for money becomes exiled. When the cube runs out, players are on their own to defeat each other.
The RPG aspect becomes more apparent when you build the cube. You can build a basic one and then after the match, build a stronger one and everyone keeps their same characters (or decks) or you can reroll new ones. The starting deck of each faction (or class) is completely customizable as well, obviously. You can make them as powerful or as weak (or budget-friendly) as you want.
I'm working on an rpg for mtg as well. The stories are very short and can be completed in as little as an hour if you understand the concept of how things work. To keep things short and simple. It's pre-built cube designed to play against horde magic decks like zombies, wolves, bounty hunters, elves, Tower defence, dragon hunting and improved event decks like face the hydra, battle the horde, and defeat a god. Players play with a 40 card mono colored deck that they can build from the cards in the cube after they choose a level up "hero/commander" card ex: Ikiral Outrider. All 5 colors are available but no player can share colors. Their starting life totals are a low 13. Almost everything is upgradeable through payment with gold coins. Such as deck size, life totals, powerful or synergistic cards like veteran's Armaments that reside in the command zone just as your hero does, hero cards from Theros prerelease and experience counters that determines what level your hero is whether he/ she is on or off the battlefield. There are 5 different, 3 chapter, stories to choose from so far. Players are given choices in each story that can help them discover side missions, informations, treasure or cause dire consequences down the line.
This isn't exactly the same, but I've been running this game for a little bit. You may be able to take a thing or two from it.
I think one of the main things that needs to exist is a sort of game-deck, or series of game-decks. Building a deck of characters to draw upon, a deck of monsters, and problems to deal with, and a deck of places to visit is probably a good start. These wouldn't need to be used randomly, but a random encounters deck may be useful.
The main issue is how to deal with mana. An obvious option is to give characters a mana pool that replenishes daily, and let them choose some spells that they know. For example, my level one red mage may have a pool of RRRRG, and know Shower of Sparks, Emblem of the Warmind, Smoke, and Roots. In such a way, I know several spells, but I have to be careful about how I use them. I can also learn more as I level up, though it's probably in your best interest to limit what spells you give them access to. This system also works well with various artifacts.
It may also be useful to have the player characters not be representable in card form, but rather in character sheet form without a direct MTG parallel. In my online MTG RPG, I had my players create balanced cards that represented their characters, which is an option. Or you could give them an existing card that archetypally represents their character, but I think it would be best to use these sorts of things as rough guidelines, if you use them at all.
It may also help to have a damage conversion chart that converts 2 damage in MTG to 2d4 damage in the RPG, for example.
I like the idea of exploring specific lands, but I feel as though that could be used even moreso in the long run. In the novels (ex. The Ice Age block with Jodah) mana was calling upon memories of land. So a starting character wouldn't be as well travelled and have less lands. Each land would generate a mana every X gamestory minutes/hours/seconds. Players can also draw from the land where they currently are, but it generates at the same rate as the land the have "from memory".
I also think that "spell levels" should be utilized so that Timewalk isn't abused early on...or at all. One of the things that makes D&D work is that it doesn't have hundreds of spells with each release/update. Having a shortened but useful list would make things far simpler, especially if you made the "reward" spells thematic to the current land.
One thing that I think would be amazing would be making discard=steal a spell from enemy/npc. This sort of pickpocket method would keep the mechanic alive with the shift.
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Another problem is that even a low-level mage in MtG could have a pouch of talismans and basic mana (harkening back to the original Magic novel Arena). To combat this, I did have a limiter that prevented lower level MtG mages from casting the higher CMC spells because they can only handle so much mana at a single throw, and mana burn was a very real threat if they biffed it up. Even at that, the spells don't scale well by CMC. For example, the most effective counterspell is only two mana, and a team of lesser mages could tie down a single higher-level mage. That then leads to in-game counterspell battles since in-game PCs would realize this inherent strength to counterspells. Swords to Plowshares is truly OP at 1 mana when you can take out a Blightsteel Colossus as a first level mage. See the problem with that fix?
I eventually concluded that the two systems were just too incompatible to spend my time trying to convert, even when using the cards in the game as the "talisman". A great idea, but I just don't see a chance of making it work. If you come up with a great idea, though, please do post it here, as I would be very interested to review the ideas.
Players begin by choosing one of the ten 2-color factions, each beginning with 4 lands (2 of each) and 6 basic cards for their color pie. Examples:
2 Forest
3 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 Mountain
3 Serum Visions
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Wee Dragonauts
1 Kiln Fiend
2 Swamp
3 Duress
1 Lingering Souls
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Doomed Traveler
Each round, 5 cards are flipped from the cube deck. Players receive 3 gold each round (lets say, 4 players) and can spend that gold to pay for colorless mana or to buy basic land from a side pool of basics (each land costs 3). Basic lands bought go straight to the graveyard, not into play. At the end of each turn, you discard your hand and draw a new one. This part is very similar to Ascension if anyone has tried that game. When your deck runs out you immediately shuffle your graveyard and start over.
Acquiring cards in the center row can be done two ways - if you want a spell, you pay its mana cost to acquire it and put it in your graveyard. You must defeat a creature by dealing damage to it with a spell or attacking it. Damage is cleared each turn just as normal MTG, so you must deal all the dmg necessary in one turn. Defeating a creature allows you to collect gold equal to its converted mana cost OR acquire it and place it in your graveyard.
Other than this center row, the game works as normal. Players can attack each other, target each other will spells, etc. The center row provides a way to "creep" or build up your strength while keeping an eye on what your opponents are doing. Sometimes the better strategy is just to go right for your opponent's head, only acquiring cards as they fit your gameplan perfectly. A card exiled is just as it was originally meant - removed from the game. It doesn't come back when your graveyard is reshuffled. A creature that's defeated for money becomes exiled. When the cube runs out, players are on their own to defeat each other.
The RPG aspect becomes more apparent when you build the cube. You can build a basic one and then after the match, build a stronger one and everyone keeps their same characters (or decks) or you can reroll new ones. The starting deck of each faction (or class) is completely customizable as well, obviously. You can make them as powerful or as weak (or budget-friendly) as you want.
Draft My Cube!
I think one of the main things that needs to exist is a sort of game-deck, or series of game-decks. Building a deck of characters to draw upon, a deck of monsters, and problems to deal with, and a deck of places to visit is probably a good start. These wouldn't need to be used randomly, but a random encounters deck may be useful.
The main issue is how to deal with mana. An obvious option is to give characters a mana pool that replenishes daily, and let them choose some spells that they know. For example, my level one red mage may have a pool of RRRRG, and know Shower of Sparks, Emblem of the Warmind, Smoke, and Roots. In such a way, I know several spells, but I have to be careful about how I use them. I can also learn more as I level up, though it's probably in your best interest to limit what spells you give them access to. This system also works well with various artifacts.
It may also be useful to have the player characters not be representable in card form, but rather in character sheet form without a direct MTG parallel. In my online MTG RPG, I had my players create balanced cards that represented their characters, which is an option. Or you could give them an existing card that archetypally represents their character, but I think it would be best to use these sorts of things as rough guidelines, if you use them at all.
It may also help to have a damage conversion chart that converts 2 damage in MTG to 2d4 damage in the RPG, for example.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I also think that "spell levels" should be utilized so that Timewalk isn't abused early on...or at all. One of the things that makes D&D work is that it doesn't have hundreds of spells with each release/update. Having a shortened but useful list would make things far simpler, especially if you made the "reward" spells thematic to the current land.
One thing that I think would be amazing would be making discard=steal a spell from enemy/npc. This sort of pickpocket method would keep the mechanic alive with the shift.