Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
WotC had a loop-hole to reprint RL cards, but they closed it and created Modern instead. Legacy players were upset by this choice; just as Modern players will be upset if WotC creates and supports this format instead of upping the reprints for Modern.
Really it's the same situation - prices in Modern are prohibitively high and this is preventing players from joining. Apparently WotC has other concerns with reprinting expensive staples besides the RL (like consumer confidence in the secondary market). A cheaper non-rotating format will be an alternative to anybody who would have shelled out for the more expensive format but will take the cheaper option instead. Players who will be glad for a cheaper format won't care about the fate of Modern anymore than Modern players care about Legacy.
It won't stay cheap for long, and the same problems with card prices will ensue. There are two groups who favour this format. Those who wish to play cheaply, and those who do not like Modern. For those who wish to play cheaply.....tough. It is not going to happen. Ever. It is not in Wizards' interest to make a cheap Eternal format that is an alternative to Std. Secondly it is not in MTG vendors' interests for this to happen, and if the format takes off prices will sky rocket.
I do not believe that many Legacy players got upset over prices when Modern was created. The people who were upset by the RL loophole closure were the have-nots, those who did not have the RL cards. Those who had them may well have been in favour of abolishing the RL because they were worried that the format would die, but they were not upset by the actual price increase, because their collections have shot up, giving them massive trading/selling power.
Wizards are not going to let this format survive unless prices go up to please big vendors, it does not detract from Standard sales and it does not replace Modern. There will be a gap in the market for a new format at some point, it may well be "Frontier", but it won't be happening for quite some time yet- when it would please are larger percentage of people than those who started 3 years ago who can't afford Modern.
Frontier does not make as much money for wizards as standard does since many of the staples in the format are from sets already out of print.
As for modern, all of the problems people have with that format can be addressed through bans, unbans, and reprints - things that should happen anyway.
Remember, Frontier was created because of the lack of availability of many popular modern cards in Japan. All they need to do is reprint these cards in an upcoming modern masters set, in a standard legal set, or in another supplementary product.
Those wishing to play frontier to escape from so called "broken" and "unfair" cards in modern will only run into broken effects in frontier as well. And the issue of broken cards can always be adressed with the banned list in modern.
So really, Frontier is just a symptom of wizards not reprinting modern staples as often as they could be and not carefully managing the banned list.
Frontier does not make as much money for wizards as standard does since many of the staples in the format are from sets already out of print.
As for modern, all of the problems people have with that format can be addressed through bans, unbans, and reprints - things that should happen anyway.
Remember, Frontier was created because of the lack of availability of many popular modern cards in Japan. All they need to do is reprint these cards in an upcoming modern masters set, in a standard legal set, or in another supplementary product.
Those wishing to play frontier to escape from so called "broken" and "unfair" cards in modern will only run into broken effects in frontier as well. And the issue of broken cards can always be adressed with the banned list in modern.
So really, Frontier is just a symptom of wizards not reprinting modern staples as often as they could be and not carefully managing the banned list.
It may have started that way, but the way Frontier plays is far different from modern because it sheds the older designs left over from the transition period between legacy and modern. Finally getting away from one mana power cards drastically changes the game in a lot of ways and from what I've experienced so far, it's a lot better because of it. While people may not want to accept it, ultimately Wizards is going to end modern in favor of a new window, it's just that they haven't done it yet and seeing the cards in action I can see why. They are basically waiting to finish up experimentation on new card design and balancing before doing it and they probably aren't sure which set to start off with yet. I feel going back to M15 is a bit arbitrary on Hareyuya's part since M15 still includes cards of the older design and thus should have also included Theros due to the sets popularity. The real starting point is likely going to be either Magic Origins or BFZ, but right now WoTC hasn't released enough cards to counter the power of boneyard strategies introduced in SoI block and naming a new format now is kind of silly if the starting point is BFZ of all places.
Personally, I think the community is pretty strong for Frontier, and the following will be even stronger if they expand it to include theros. However, doing that means they will need to start cutting some cards from the pool like Thoughtseize and Collected Company, and right now they really should get rid of Collected Company because of all the ETB cards at 3 cmc or less in the format. It's not just a powerful card, it's a broken one.
However, on the subject of decks I'm starting to work on one myself based a bit on the work this fellow did with his jund build...
Not really sold on going with GRB since he's doing it mostly for the 3 cmc Live Fast. Also, his sideboard is really geared heavily towards fighting aggro decks and I'm not sure that's what the frontier meta is going to be shaping into. Control is actually pretty good and against CoCo U offers better utility as the problem from that card is it resolving and them getting Reflector Mage or Spell Queller onto the field, just to name a few things that could really ruin ones day.
Also, not sure of the wisdom of trying to stuff eldrazi titans into a deck that tries to cheat things into play with Aetherworks marvel. Noxious Gearhulk, Dragonlord Atarka, etc, seem like the cards one would want to use in this style of deck, though Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is always a solid pick.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It may have started that way, but the way Frontier plays is far different from modern because it sheds the older designs left over from the transition period between legacy and modern. Finally getting away from one mana power cards drastically changes the game in a lot of ways and from what I've experienced so far, it's a lot better because of it. While people may not want to accept it, ultimately Wizards is going to end modern in favor of a new window, it's just that they haven't done it yet and seeing the cards in action I can see why. They are basically waiting to finish up experimentation on new card design and balancing before doing it and they probably aren't sure which set to start off with yet. I feel going back to M15 is a bit arbitrary on Hareyuya's part since M15 still includes cards of the older design and thus should have also included Theros due to the sets popularity. The real starting point is likely going to be either Magic Origins or BFZ, but right now WoTC hasn't released enough cards to counter the power of boneyard strategies introduced in SoI block and naming a new format now is kind of silly if the starting point is BFZ of all places.
What are the older designs left over from the transitional period?
I don't think there is one specific era you can point to in Magic's History as the transitional from old to new designs.
Even a set as recent as Khans of Tarkir contained the arguably broken delve effects. Oh, and remember Rally? And then dragons gave us Collected Company. In retrospect, we may be looking back on cards that are currently in standard as "mistakes" and part of "older design".
The fact is that design keeps changing with each set as the designers and developers learn from their past mistakes, but whenever experimenting with something new or pushing an individual card or mechanic there are bound to be slips and that is why we end up with busted cards.
I don't predict wizards will stop printing mistakes because they are only human.
It may have started that way, but the way Frontier plays is far different from modern because it sheds the older designs left over from the transition period between legacy and modern. Finally getting away from one mana power cards drastically changes the game in a lot of ways and from what I've experienced so far, it's a lot better because of it. While people may not want to accept it, ultimately Wizards is going to end modern in favor of a new window, it's just that they haven't done it yet and seeing the cards in action I can see why. They are basically waiting to finish up experimentation on new card design and balancing before doing it and they probably aren't sure which set to start off with yet. I feel going back to M15 is a bit arbitrary on Hareyuya's part since M15 still includes cards of the older design and thus should have also included Theros due to the sets popularity. The real starting point is likely going to be either Magic Origins or BFZ, but right now WoTC hasn't released enough cards to counter the power of boneyard strategies introduced in SoI block and naming a new format now is kind of silly if the starting point is BFZ of all places.
What are the older designs left over from the transitional period?
I don't think there is one specific era you can point to in Magic's History as the transitional from old to new designs.
Even a set as recent as Khans of Tarkir contained the arguably broken delve effects. Oh, and remember Rally? And then dragons gave us Collected Company. In retrospect, we may be looking back on cards that are currently in standard as "mistakes" and part of "older design".
The fact is that design keeps changing with each set as the designers and developers learn from their past mistakes, but whenever experimenting with something new or pushing an individual card or mechanic there are bound to be slips and that is why we end up with busted cards.
I don't predict wizards will stop printing mistakes because they are only human.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agree with Colt about "transitional" design. By 8th edition WotC had reigned in counter-magic (and no Dark Ritual or Armegeddon), but they were still printing quality LD, rituals, cantrips, lock-pieces, sweepers, and in general supporting all types of archetypes besides just aggro and midrange. Time Spiral / Ravnica Standard had a Storm deck, a Ponza deck, a U/W Tron control deck, a R/W aggro deck and a Reanimator combo deck! It's fair to call this "Legacy era" design because many of the supporting cards were banned in Modern!
I disagree that this old design is bad for the game. I hear people say it doesn't work very well in Modern and that games are too non-interactive. But if that's true I blame the lack of a wide range of quality answers (such as in Legacy), as well as a poorly handled banned list.
I also agree that from a marketing perspective, WotC are right to pursue midrange and aggro heavy formats, leaving more diverse and knowledge dependent formats in the background. I think they are unlikely to ever drop support for Modern entirely (unless the community collapses) because that would shake the confidence of anybody buying in to the new non-rotating format they will eventually try to push.
If the community embraces "Frontier", WotC will likely back away from Modern sooner than if it's up to their initiative. But it's already getting to the point where Modern is as distasteful to newer players as Legacy was 7 or 8 years ago.
Also still messing around with the idea of trying out Aethertorch Renegade as another way to do strait damage and Goblin Dark-dwellers may be a stronger choice than the gearhulk in this deck.
edit: The base I'm sort of working with at the moment...
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Big difference between this affecting Modern the way Modern affected legacy, no reserve list for modern, cards can always be reprinted to make sure enough are out there.
That is quite true, the only problem is that Wizards continues to refuse to reprint Modern, and also Legacy, cards in any meaningful way. Each Masters set has had some incredible problem with it and the only set to reprint any decent cards in any decent amount has been Conspiracy 2. WoTC still needs to bump up reprint rates big time.
And honestly I expect this format to run into issues of price that atleast in part is because of conception. WotC won't reprint enough. It's only cheap now because it's starting out and not popular
I think that Frontier may not have the reprint issues of Legacy and Modern as plenty of those cards are considered far too good for Standard, and some are considered too expensive to put into something like a Duel Deck or elsewhere that isn't a supplemental set. Frontier though may not have that issue as around M15 to Origins is when they started a different level of power and many of those cards could see far more reprints in Standard going forward. Then again we barely see any reprints in Standard, and all of the reprints are only focused on supplementary products, which have been mostly bad on the reprint front.
I keep hearing the same arguments here. I think the posts predicting another eternal format eventually running into same problems as Modern are spot on. It seems to me the answer is not another eternal format but rather a (large) rotating format.
I know Extended has been bashed anytime it's brought up. It was losing popularity and people were eager to move to Modern. Perhaps now that we know all the pros and cons of Modern, Extended deserves another shot.
To anyone still skeptical I ask you to consider the following:
1. For any shortcoming expressed about Modern, I argue that Frontier would eventually run into the same issue.
2. For any feature that draws people to Frontier, I argue that Extended also possesses similar positive attributes.
I keep hearing the same arguments here. I think the posts predicting another eternal format eventually running into same problems as Modern are spot on. It seems to me the answer is not another eternal format but rather a (large) rotating format.
I know Extended has been bashed anytime it's brought up. It was losing popularity and people were eager to move to Modern. Perhaps now that we know all the pros and cons of Modern, Extended deserves another shot.
To anyone still skeptical I ask you to consider the following:
1. For any shortcoming expressed about Modern, I argue that Frontier would eventually run into the same issue.
2. For any feature that draws people to Frontier, I argue that Extended also possesses similar positive attributes.
Well, basically the part of the entire deal is that Wizards can't keep up print runs of every card they print and people didn't like the broad sweeps that resulted from extended rotations. The real answer is probably just to use modern masters to keep cards the company wants legal and just make any card not reprinted within a 5 year time span no longer legal in modern. The only reason cards get expensive in modern is that they are not printed enough and the demand is too high. If the card never gets a reprint and climbs too high in price just let it go and move on.
But that's likely how whatever new eternal format Wizards comes up with will work anyway. If they use modern as a card base then it would allow modern players to play whatever got printed in the last 5 years or so, including cards that got reprints in modern masters. As for Frontier, I think it's a safe buy in and will get enough support to take off on it's own. The cards in the format are cheap enough that printing them in commander products and other supplementary products wont be as problematic, as long as wizards of the coast does so early on and keeps up the pace. If they let it go like they did with modern we'll eventually run into the same issues modern has and have to go through this entire cycle all over again.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't see why it matters exactly how and why it rotates. Rotating formats still have problems. I play Modern specifically because it doesn't rotate. I can take a long time to finish a deck, I can still have a competitive experience while not constantly keeping up with the changes to the format, and when I walk away during busy periods and come back my deck and the format as a whole are still basically the same as they were before. If I wanted to play a format that rotated, I would play Standard. A longer Standard with Modern Masters added is basically Extended, and Extended has (for me) the same issues as Standard.
I don't see why it matters exactly how and why it rotates. Rotating formats still have problems. I play Modern specifically because it doesn't rotate. I can take a long time to finish a deck, I can still have a competitive experience while not constantly keeping up with the changes to the format, and when I walk away during busy periods and come back my deck and the format as a whole are still basically the same as they were before. If I wanted to play a format that rotated, I would play Standard. A longer Standard with Modern Masters added is basically Extended, and Extended has (for me) the same issues as Standard.
Well the reality is that there is no good answer. The choices are either not have every standard set get added to the non-rotating set and keep reprinting the existing cards in the set, or have cards get added to the set and rotate out the older cards that aren't in print, or keep adding sets until the eternal format is rendered nearly unplayable on a competitive level and change the window to a new format. That's pretty much it. The one thing going for modern that Legacy doesn't have going for it is the lack of the reserve list, which means they can keep supporting it with Frontier coming in, unlike legacy which is basically doomed to a slow death.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"Leave Modern alone" is a pretty good answer. It's fine for the people who enjoy playing it. The only problem with it is, unlike Standard, it doesn't reward constant play and practice, because it doesn't change that much. I can see how that would be boring for pros & aspiring pros. For those who have less time and money to commit and want a competitive level somewhere between EDH and Standard, that's actually an asset.
Also, I wish people would stop saying "eternal" when they mean "non-rotating." Legacy is an eternal format. Many of its problems stem from the problems with eternal formats in general. Modern doesn't have to worry about anything new outside of Standard sets, and the card pool is large enough that no single Standard set can have too big of an impact (OGW was an abberation, and has been fixed), yet also small enough that there's room for a handful of cards from each set to revitalize certain shells and shift the meta. It's kind of in a sweet spot right now. Will that change down the line? Possibly. But we're talking years. People are still brewing with old cards (Skred Red, Lantern Control) and much as they're taking new cards and bringing old archetypes back to life (Dredge). That's a sign of a really healthy format.
"Leave Modern alone" is a pretty good answer. It's fine for the people who enjoy playing it. The only problem with it is, unlike Standard, it doesn't reward constant play and practice, because it doesn't change that much. I can see how that would be boring for pros & aspiring pros. For those who have less time and money to commit and want a competitive level somewhere between EDH and Standard, that's actually an asset.
Also, I wish people would stop saying "eternal" when they mean "non-rotating." Legacy is an eternal format. Many of its problems stem from the problems with eternal formats in general. Modern doesn't have to worry about anything new outside of Standard sets, and the card pool is large enough that no single Standard set can have too big of an impact (OGW was an abberation, and has been fixed), yet also small enough that there's room for a handful of cards from each set to revitalize certain shells and shift the meta. It's kind of in a sweet spot right now. Will that change down the line? Possibly. But we're talking years. People are still brewing with old cards (Skred Red, Lantern Control) and much as they're taking new cards and bringing old archetypes back to life (Dredge). That's a sign of a really healthy format.
Even if they have a new non-rotating international format coming in the form of Frontier, Modern is still going to exist for a while. The real killer with Modern is the earlier printed sets had much more limited print runs than the later ones and there's a pretty big concentration of power in those sets, which has made it hard for newer sets like RtR to even make a dent outside shocks. That and the international community is left floating like a fish out of water because of the lack of print runs.
On another note, great time to be picking up frontier cards, though. Most of Kahns and Dragons have bottomed out now so the prices are pretty good on the command cycle and legendary dragons. Not to mention Sorin is a steal right now. All the stuff from BFZ and up is still stuck in the inflation hell of standard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
And Jace has once again started climbing his mountain again. I swear that guy is going to be the poster child of the frontier format at this rate.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Moderns financial problems are more than enough reason to have frontier. Modern cards from older sets are much more limited in supply. With print runs going as strong as they are now the real issue is pack openings and people buying huge lots to sell later at inflated prices. You can't count on singles sellers to give a good price on singles when they got to shoulder the burden of paying for boxes and cracking them open alone. The unfair prices on the second hand market are in part due to no singles retail sheets being supplied so as to enable proper singles sales.
The most important thing with frontier is people like the format and are playing it. The fact it's also super hard to manipulate into a financial nightmare like tiny leaders is also a big plus.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Anyone here play Elves in frontier? I've been trying to figure out if Chord of calling is even worth it in the format at the moment since there doesn't seem like a lot of good targets. Decimator of the Provinces is on cast so that basically kills it as a viable Craterhoof Behemoth and you can't fetch Obelisk of Urd with calling.
Edit: Also, had an interesting conversation with a friend earlier about Frontier itself and actually, this format might be getting pushed because of the anti-counterfit measures. It seems that there are a lot more counter fit modern cards out there than people realized and without that hologram tag down there on the bottom, they are way too easy to print now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
WotC can only support so many formats, otherwise the playerbase is fractured and that is awful for their business model. They basically support only 5 formats at a time, if that and those have always been vintage, legacy, extended/modern, standard, and limited. Vintage and legacy aren't really supported much anymore since the reserved list ties their hands. You could argue that commander has usurped the place of legacy/vintage in terms of their support as they have yearly releases for it, whereas legacy/vintage have had one dedicated set since basically chronicles in eternal masters. Can't even say conspiracy 1 or 2 really since they didn't print the super staples/wasteland and force of will, 2 cornerstones of both legacy and vintage. You can't just have as many formats as you want.
If there were counterfeits out there that passed the harshest scrutinizing by people who have been in this game for over 20 years, the secondary market would have collapsed by now as the market would be flooded with tarmogoyf, underground sea, etc. etc. and people would panic sell sending the gigantic skyscraper that is the secondary market of magic crashing into the ground like the world trade center. It would be horrific. You wouldn't hear a word about the reserved list again if it happened is about the only good that would come of it, except that WotC should abolish it in response and print power and duals with holograms on it.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
My feeling is that the real post-modern format is going to be origins and up + whatever gets reprinted in the later modern masters sets. Frontier is more so WoTC testing waters to see how the format may play out right now without actually devoting resources or saying they are starting a new format. If they officially state Frontier is the new modern format right now, it would pretty much shatter the hopes and dreams of way too many players, cause an upheaval on the secondary market the likes of which no one has ever seen, and probably result in the spiking of just about every card in the Frontier cardpool to high heavens. Hence, that's why I'm getting into this early instead of after WoTC does announce post modern. This frontier format likely IS post-modern in an alpha form. So all of us guys playing Frontier right now are their unofficial beta/alpha testers. Hurray for being used like a guinea pig!
Also, reason I'm pretty convinced at this point this is the case is that it's being pushed by Hareyuya and japan like crazy and not a small, near no name group like what was the case with tiny leaders, it's based on a new card frame with holotag that was created by WoTC themselves, the majority of the cards in the set are not money makers in the slightest for the second hand market and the ones that are generally are found in modern decks, and the format has the peculiar trait of annexing literally all of the worst mistakes to make it into modern as per articles dating as far back as 2008.
The implications of this are that modern masters sets are a temporary measure and they will not have any modern masters sets once they announce the new format. The other matter is MTGO, Magic Duels, and the upcoming MTG Digital Next. If they are really creating an up to date competitor to Hearthstone with MTG Digital Next, then they have to run off a smaller card pool with fewer mechanics to deal with. Technically, even if they only go back to M15, there are still a ton of mechanics they'd have to account for, so we'll have to see how this pans out.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You're suggesting WotC is manipulating Hareyuya behind the scenes? I don't see why we need a conspiracy theory when a major vendor already has an incentive to generate interest in a large catalog of rotated standard rares.
Also: some of these singles (Jace, Anafenza, Hangarback) spiked this week. Whether that's speculation or more players buying in time will tell, but I'm sure attention from major sites such at MTGGoldfish hasn't hurt.
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It won't stay cheap for long, and the same problems with card prices will ensue. There are two groups who favour this format. Those who wish to play cheaply, and those who do not like Modern. For those who wish to play cheaply.....tough. It is not going to happen. Ever. It is not in Wizards' interest to make a cheap Eternal format that is an alternative to Std. Secondly it is not in MTG vendors' interests for this to happen, and if the format takes off prices will sky rocket.
I do not believe that many Legacy players got upset over prices when Modern was created. The people who were upset by the RL loophole closure were the have-nots, those who did not have the RL cards. Those who had them may well have been in favour of abolishing the RL because they were worried that the format would die, but they were not upset by the actual price increase, because their collections have shot up, giving them massive trading/selling power.
Wizards are not going to let this format survive unless prices go up to please big vendors, it does not detract from Standard sales and it does not replace Modern. There will be a gap in the market for a new format at some point, it may well be "Frontier", but it won't be happening for quite some time yet- when it would please are larger percentage of people than those who started 3 years ago who can't afford Modern.
As for modern, all of the problems people have with that format can be addressed through bans, unbans, and reprints - things that should happen anyway.
Remember, Frontier was created because of the lack of availability of many popular modern cards in Japan. All they need to do is reprint these cards in an upcoming modern masters set, in a standard legal set, or in another supplementary product.
Those wishing to play frontier to escape from so called "broken" and "unfair" cards in modern will only run into broken effects in frontier as well. And the issue of broken cards can always be adressed with the banned list in modern.
So really, Frontier is just a symptom of wizards not reprinting modern staples as often as they could be and not carefully managing the banned list.
It may have started that way, but the way Frontier plays is far different from modern because it sheds the older designs left over from the transition period between legacy and modern. Finally getting away from one mana power cards drastically changes the game in a lot of ways and from what I've experienced so far, it's a lot better because of it. While people may not want to accept it, ultimately Wizards is going to end modern in favor of a new window, it's just that they haven't done it yet and seeing the cards in action I can see why. They are basically waiting to finish up experimentation on new card design and balancing before doing it and they probably aren't sure which set to start off with yet. I feel going back to M15 is a bit arbitrary on Hareyuya's part since M15 still includes cards of the older design and thus should have also included Theros due to the sets popularity. The real starting point is likely going to be either Magic Origins or BFZ, but right now WoTC hasn't released enough cards to counter the power of boneyard strategies introduced in SoI block and naming a new format now is kind of silly if the starting point is BFZ of all places.
Personally, I think the community is pretty strong for Frontier, and the following will be even stronger if they expand it to include theros. However, doing that means they will need to start cutting some cards from the pool like Thoughtseize and Collected Company, and right now they really should get rid of Collected Company because of all the ETB cards at 3 cmc or less in the format. It's not just a powerful card, it's a broken one.
However, on the subject of decks I'm starting to work on one myself based a bit on the work this fellow did with his jund build...
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/frontier-jund-aetherworks#paper
Not really sold on going with GRB since he's doing it mostly for the 3 cmc Live Fast. Also, his sideboard is really geared heavily towards fighting aggro decks and I'm not sure that's what the frontier meta is going to be shaping into. Control is actually pretty good and against CoCo U offers better utility as the problem from that card is it resolving and them getting Reflector Mage or Spell Queller onto the field, just to name a few things that could really ruin ones day.
Also, not sure of the wisdom of trying to stuff eldrazi titans into a deck that tries to cheat things into play with Aetherworks marvel. Noxious Gearhulk, Dragonlord Atarka, etc, seem like the cards one would want to use in this style of deck, though Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is always a solid pick.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What are the older designs left over from the transitional period?
I don't think there is one specific era you can point to in Magic's History as the transitional from old to new designs.
Even a set as recent as Khans of Tarkir contained the arguably broken delve effects. Oh, and remember Rally? And then dragons gave us Collected Company. In retrospect, we may be looking back on cards that are currently in standard as "mistakes" and part of "older design".
The fact is that design keeps changing with each set as the designers and developers learn from their past mistakes, but whenever experimenting with something new or pushing an individual card or mechanic there are bound to be slips and that is why we end up with busted cards.
I don't predict wizards will stop printing mistakes because they are only human.
The cards that got sucked up into modern from the Legacy days are things like Lightning Bolt, Blood Moon, the Urza lands, Ensnaring Bridge, and Worship, to name a few.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I disagree that this old design is bad for the game. I hear people say it doesn't work very well in Modern and that games are too non-interactive. But if that's true I blame the lack of a wide range of quality answers (such as in Legacy), as well as a poorly handled banned list.
I also agree that from a marketing perspective, WotC are right to pursue midrange and aggro heavy formats, leaving more diverse and knowledge dependent formats in the background. I think they are unlikely to ever drop support for Modern entirely (unless the community collapses) because that would shake the confidence of anybody buying in to the new non-rotating format they will eventually try to push.
If the community embraces "Frontier", WotC will likely back away from Modern sooner than if it's up to their initiative. But it's already getting to the point where Modern is as distasteful to newer players as Legacy was 7 or 8 years ago.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Decoction Module + Dynavolt Tower + make use of all the token producing insanity in the format in the form of Monastery Mentor, Raise the Alarm, Hordeling Outburst, Dragon Fodder, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy or Smuggler's Copter, and capping off with Torrential Gearhulk. There's a lot of ways to take the deck at the moment and it generally favors spells over creatures, so I'm trying to minimize the non-spell portions at the moment.
Also still messing around with the idea of trying out Aethertorch Renegade as another way to do strait damage and Goblin Dark-dwellers may be a stronger choice than the gearhulk in this deck.
edit: The base I'm sort of working with at the moment...
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That is quite true, the only problem is that Wizards continues to refuse to reprint Modern, and also Legacy, cards in any meaningful way. Each Masters set has had some incredible problem with it and the only set to reprint any decent cards in any decent amount has been Conspiracy 2. WoTC still needs to bump up reprint rates big time.
I think that Frontier may not have the reprint issues of Legacy and Modern as plenty of those cards are considered far too good for Standard, and some are considered too expensive to put into something like a Duel Deck or elsewhere that isn't a supplemental set. Frontier though may not have that issue as around M15 to Origins is when they started a different level of power and many of those cards could see far more reprints in Standard going forward. Then again we barely see any reprints in Standard, and all of the reprints are only focused on supplementary products, which have been mostly bad on the reprint front.
I know Extended has been bashed anytime it's brought up. It was losing popularity and people were eager to move to Modern. Perhaps now that we know all the pros and cons of Modern, Extended deserves another shot.
To anyone still skeptical I ask you to consider the following:
1. For any shortcoming expressed about Modern, I argue that Frontier would eventually run into the same issue.
2. For any feature that draws people to Frontier, I argue that Extended also possesses similar positive attributes.
Well, basically the part of the entire deal is that Wizards can't keep up print runs of every card they print and people didn't like the broad sweeps that resulted from extended rotations. The real answer is probably just to use modern masters to keep cards the company wants legal and just make any card not reprinted within a 5 year time span no longer legal in modern. The only reason cards get expensive in modern is that they are not printed enough and the demand is too high. If the card never gets a reprint and climbs too high in price just let it go and move on.
But that's likely how whatever new eternal format Wizards comes up with will work anyway. If they use modern as a card base then it would allow modern players to play whatever got printed in the last 5 years or so, including cards that got reprints in modern masters. As for Frontier, I think it's a safe buy in and will get enough support to take off on it's own. The cards in the format are cheap enough that printing them in commander products and other supplementary products wont be as problematic, as long as wizards of the coast does so early on and keeps up the pace. If they let it go like they did with modern we'll eventually run into the same issues modern has and have to go through this entire cycle all over again.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well the reality is that there is no good answer. The choices are either not have every standard set get added to the non-rotating set and keep reprinting the existing cards in the set, or have cards get added to the set and rotate out the older cards that aren't in print, or keep adding sets until the eternal format is rendered nearly unplayable on a competitive level and change the window to a new format. That's pretty much it. The one thing going for modern that Legacy doesn't have going for it is the lack of the reserve list, which means they can keep supporting it with Frontier coming in, unlike legacy which is basically doomed to a slow death.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Also, I wish people would stop saying "eternal" when they mean "non-rotating." Legacy is an eternal format. Many of its problems stem from the problems with eternal formats in general. Modern doesn't have to worry about anything new outside of Standard sets, and the card pool is large enough that no single Standard set can have too big of an impact (OGW was an abberation, and has been fixed), yet also small enough that there's room for a handful of cards from each set to revitalize certain shells and shift the meta. It's kind of in a sweet spot right now. Will that change down the line? Possibly. But we're talking years. People are still brewing with old cards (Skred Red, Lantern Control) and much as they're taking new cards and bringing old archetypes back to life (Dredge). That's a sign of a really healthy format.
Even if they have a new non-rotating international format coming in the form of Frontier, Modern is still going to exist for a while. The real killer with Modern is the earlier printed sets had much more limited print runs than the later ones and there's a pretty big concentration of power in those sets, which has made it hard for newer sets like RtR to even make a dent outside shocks. That and the international community is left floating like a fish out of water because of the lack of print runs.
On another note, great time to be picking up frontier cards, though. Most of Kahns and Dragons have bottomed out now so the prices are pretty good on the command cycle and legendary dragons. Not to mention Sorin is a steal right now. All the stuff from BFZ and up is still stuck in the inflation hell of standard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The most important thing with frontier is people like the format and are playing it. The fact it's also super hard to manipulate into a financial nightmare like tiny leaders is also a big plus.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Edit: Also, had an interesting conversation with a friend earlier about Frontier itself and actually, this format might be getting pushed because of the anti-counterfit measures. It seems that there are a lot more counter fit modern cards out there than people realized and without that hologram tag down there on the bottom, they are way too easy to print now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If there were counterfeits out there that passed the harshest scrutinizing by people who have been in this game for over 20 years, the secondary market would have collapsed by now as the market would be flooded with tarmogoyf, underground sea, etc. etc. and people would panic sell sending the gigantic skyscraper that is the secondary market of magic crashing into the ground like the world trade center. It would be horrific. You wouldn't hear a word about the reserved list again if it happened is about the only good that would come of it, except that WotC should abolish it in response and print power and duals with holograms on it.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Also, reason I'm pretty convinced at this point this is the case is that it's being pushed by Hareyuya and japan like crazy and not a small, near no name group like what was the case with tiny leaders, it's based on a new card frame with holotag that was created by WoTC themselves, the majority of the cards in the set are not money makers in the slightest for the second hand market and the ones that are generally are found in modern decks, and the format has the peculiar trait of annexing literally all of the worst mistakes to make it into modern as per articles dating as far back as 2008.
The implications of this are that modern masters sets are a temporary measure and they will not have any modern masters sets once they announce the new format. The other matter is MTGO, Magic Duels, and the upcoming MTG Digital Next. If they are really creating an up to date competitor to Hearthstone with MTG Digital Next, then they have to run off a smaller card pool with fewer mechanics to deal with. Technically, even if they only go back to M15, there are still a ton of mechanics they'd have to account for, so we'll have to see how this pans out.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Also: some of these singles (Jace, Anafenza, Hangarback) spiked this week. Whether that's speculation or more players buying in time will tell, but I'm sure attention from major sites such at MTGGoldfish hasn't hurt.