How do you play against mirror matchups? I heard perhaps Teneb, the Harvester is a good option. What you think of Necrotic Sliver?
Prismatic Lens or Search for Tomorrow or Evolution Charm, which one is the best to replace relic? ( I can get 1 relic max can should I just get 1 relic or omit relics and go with 4 of the above?)
I've won quite a few mirror matches just by Factory, Venser, and Snake beats. That said, if they have a lot more Slivers then you, this plan won't really work. I may throw a Necrotic Sliver in the SB, not to win more mirror matches, but to speed games up. I'll take it out depending on how much of this deck I scout before the PTQ tomorrow.
Mono Blue Pickles is not an aggro deck. The hardest aggro matchup is Mono Red, followed by GR on WGr. Thornscape Battlemage out of the side really hurts, as does Dead // Gone MD and any other burn they may have. Mono Red is a nightmare, as they've got plenty of burn. I try and mulligan into Sliver-filled hands, as they give up a lot of speed when burning your guys, and if you can refill with Forsee or Dormant quickly enough you can beat them.
I just placed 10th at a PTQ playing Glittering Wish...
It's actually probably the best idea for the deck, because you lose absolutely nothing by cutting the Darkheart and Dormant Slivers, and then I removed an additional Foresee. The manabase is easy to tweak, just remove the burnwillows, add in two plains, one mountain, and a forest, and it's fine.
The wishboard is really nice in the deck. Wafo-Tapa's list is hard pressed to win without a Wild Pair on the board, Glittering Wish not only allows that to happen, but it allows you to protect your wild pair should you get it. Some notable targets;
Mystic Snake
Fiery Justice (Good vs. morphs, lots of stuff)
Teferi's Moat
Teneb, The Harvester, or any dragon really
Frenetic Sliver
Dormant Sliver
Dark Heart Sliver
Harmonic Sliver
Void (unbelievable card in block, it was my MVP of the day if Wish wasn't)
Mystic Enforcer
Coalition Victory (I acutally stole not one, but two games with this card today, it's quite a lot easier to do than one would think and is hugely funny)
Go ahead and try with the Wishes, you definitely won't notice much missing from the deck, and you won't be disappointed.
EDIT: I'd like to affirm that I was playing Glittering Wish in this Sliver Control deck.
I just Top 8ed the Neutral Ground PTQ. I didn't deserve it because I played like a donk, but I did notice a few things.
Although GW might seem like a good matchup, I played against Osyp's version that has Scryb Ranger. The card is crazy against you. They slap on Griffin Guide and it's hard to tap it down since it's Pro Blue.
Also, Stonewood Invocation rushes out against Telekinetic lock and wins games out of no where.
I think that Thornwield Archer should be in the SB against GW since the matchup really isn't that great of the lock.
I actually saw one of the matches where you so-called "played like a donk", and I know what you mean, but don't sweat it The deck is incredibly hard to play in situations where the right move doesn't scream itself out of nowhere, and without a little bit of luck to drawing into Wild Pair early every time, it's ten times worse. I agree with you in that the GW matchup is typically poor, even without the Scryb Rangers. If they get a relatively quick start, you are under a decent amount of pressure to lay down some defense in the form of Telekinetic Sliver, Wild Pair, or even Take Possession. There are numerous Trumps to the enchantments that they will always side in, and if they have one when you go to play it, it's bad news. For Telekinetic Sliver, I saw a lot of boarded Sunlances, but I'd be more scared of Scryb Ranger. There's always the rogue Invocation that flies out of nowhere as well, so it's really not all that good of a matchup.
I remember there were quite a few Wild Pair decks at the Neutral Ground PTQ, and I definitely learned a lot from playing it. First and foremost is, the deck is really interactive and play skill reliant, especially against the teachings decks, but without quite a large amount of luck of drawing into and sticking your mana acceleration and fixing, the deck is in trouble. Second is that it's really not an entirely difficult deck to dismantle when playing against it, although nobody who could seemed to know how. This is probably due to the scarcity fo the deck, and possibly due to the player skill at the PTQs. Regardless, if you are careful, tap all of your mana correctly, and think before you go to win, there's very few people at one of these who will be able to stop it.
Third, and probably most importantly, control decks are hard to play at a long tournament such as a PTQ. When you are not presented with the obvious plays with this deck, it is about ten times worse on your head than a control deck is. As mentioned before, there are tons and tons and tons of options almost every turn when there's no obvious one, so it's really important to, if you plan on playing this at a PTQ, get a good night's sleep, eat breakfast, and make sure you don't get tired during the day. Unless you're incredibly lucky, in which case there's no need to
Finally, as mentioned, I sported the version with Glittering Wish. I'm still undecided upon which is the better deck. I shortened my budget on dual lands, so that may have affected some of my mana issues (of which there weren't much to begin with), but the addition of this card certainly boggles the mana base. That said, if one could work out a base that's really solid for the addition of the card, I'd reccommend it in the deck. I lost no real consistancy in powering out spells and wild pair, and the toolbox gained from the card is really great. The matches I lost were both to aggro decks, and there really isn't anything in the board that could help that. I would consider wishing for Fiery Justice, or Teferi's Moat, or Void on turn 4-5 without a Wild Pair in hand a much better play than throwing down a Foresee, or a Dormant Sliver, or a Dark Heart Sliver. What's even better with Void is that, especially in the G/W matchup, almost all of their creatures cost two mana. Serra Avenger, Mire Boa, Tarmogoyf, it's very effective there.
So, in short, I'd suggest first finding a way to tweak the mana base into supporting Glittering Wish without losing any mana consistancy. If you can do that, I'd suggest playing it, because I really think it helps the deck out quite a lot.
As for me, that's the last time I'll play this deck at a PTQ, because it's too much thinking for that long The highlight of my day, however, was winning in round 2 with Glittering Wish into Coalition Victory. I'm pretty sure that's never been done lol
Round 1 I played some U/W tempo deck with Blink and those Djinn things. I started out pretty slow, lacking much acceleration in both games. It didn't help that he blinked a djinn turn three on me in one game. I don't think it was a bad matchup, just bad luck.
Round 2 I was up against RDW, and I drew typical hands both games, and Wished into Dark Heart Sliver both games. It was a fairly easy victory.
Round 3 I got paired against a UBgw teachings deck. It was an incredibly easy match for me, but I am really good at playing against slow control decks, so I'm not sure this would be true for everyone. The trick against the deck for me was to keep seven cards in my hand, basically. Not to overplay, cast dormant sliver, etc. etc. It was an easy matchup in my opinion, however I think it was due to play skill against this deck more than anything.
Round 4 I got paired against a GW Tarmogoyf deck. I drew a good hand game 1, game 2 he drew a good hand, and game 3 I made a wrong decision on a Wish target. He had Krosan Grips and Kestrels in his deck, and I needed to stabilize. My choice was either Moat or Teneb, and I chose Teneb in fear of the enchantment destruction. Turns out he didn't have any in his hand, and he wound up drawing into enough creatures to swarm around him before I could do anything. Oh well.
Round 5 I was up against a UG Goyf deck, which I beat with stunning hands again. Both allowed me to play out quick Wild Pairs, and he was pretty much beaten after that.
Round 6 I was up against another teachings deck, which I again beat rather handily. This was a more traditional UBw deck, but the idea is still the same.
Round 7 I was up against a UG Pickles deck, which is an auto-loss with anything less than super-fast hands. Turns out this is what happened game 2, but games 1 and 3 turned out in my favor.
Round 8 I scooped to my friend to give him a chance to get into the top 8.
I also played at the NG PTQ, but scrubbed out at 1-3.
Round 1 I played Josh Sandler (great player) with GW. I mulled to 5 the first game on no land hands, and never saw a third land with the one I kept. Game 2 I mulled to four, with a fairly decent 2 Wall, 2 land hand, but never drew an out to Griffin Guide (or Mystic Enforcer, can't remember)
Round 2 I played BRG Control. He got a game loss for decklist error, and I beat him down game 2, even after being Voided x3.
Round 3 I played a fellow NGer Asher Hecht with UG. This is a pretty bad matchup for me, and he was able to tempo out and beat me both games. I mulled to 5 game 2 on 2 no land hands.
Round 4, playing for pride now, I played against Travis Jones with WG. I mulled to 5 both games, yet again. I almost pulled out a win game 2, but he got in there with Scryb Ranger armed with Stonewood Invocation.
A very unsuccesful day, but I think I played the best I could with the luck that screwed me over. Out of 7 total games, I mulled to 5 four times, and to 4 once. Pretty crappy, because these weren't even keepable hands. These were no land hands, and the debatable one was when I had 2 lands and 4 cards costing 4cc and above against Asher. I may add in a 23rd land to keep this from happening again, but I'm guessing it was just one of those days and not the deck itself.
In my opinion, the lands are easily the big problem to this deck. Without the mana accelerators on the board, if somebody can't hit their land, the game is over, and with only 22 and four terramorphic expanses, this happens a whole lot.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
No. Whitemane comes down at instant speed to pull out a Venser or Mystic Snake at instant speed. It can also be used in conjuntion with Wild Pair to fetch almost any sliver you need to answer whatever threat may be thrown at you.
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If I do good - I feel good. If I do bad -I feel bad. That's my religion.
If you read the feature matches from Grand Prix: Montreal, then you'll see that Wafo-Tapa actually manged some sick rolls of the die to save his Slivers from all manner of things.
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Official Procrastinator of Project Mayhem
Procrastination is like masturbation. Its only fun until you realize you just screwed yourself.
Sometimes it is neccessary to have more than 1 frenetic sliver in paly because sometimes a control deck will try to tendrils the frenetic to force you to flip/sac it to its own ability then damn because there is no frenetic sliver to save your sliver. It is probably the most useful sliver in the entire deck other than dormant.
My guess, is that aside from Darkheart Sliver, it's the cheapest 2/2 sliver he runs, and he needs to have 2/2 bodies to let Wild Pair bring him the Lion. Yeah, Wall of Roots can do it too, but it's good to be redundant there, and I don't expect Spinneret Sliver to be worth it. Phago's comments are quite true as well.
Another thing to note about the frenetics is that they allow you to chump at times you don't want to and have them come back half the time. They are essential to making the deck resilient in this format.
I'm new here. I was introduced by a friend to use this deck and I observed many of the wafo tapa's gameplay and this deck is really excellent. Almost flawless when comes into comboing. The first block PTQ i lost 8 rounds in a row miserably due to not enough practice on this deck, mistakes which cost me game and also lack of experiences.
I just played against few players in MWS Online Play, and one guy particularly played Magus of Tarbenacle, Porphyr Nodes, Aven riftwatcher, Aeon chronicler. It's the key cards which I can see, runs careful consideration, mystical teaching, cancel, akroma, angel of wrath and maybe teferi, mage of zhalfir and not to mention boom bust.
My main concern is cards like Phorphyr nodes and magus of tarbanacle. For the nodes, it can be easily countered with frenetic slivers. But what if there's no frenetic slivers in play or counters ? Should i put in extirpate to go against the node ?
And also against another player, a mirror match, he used screeching sliver, what can I do if my slivers are less than opponents ? I even tried to get him deck out by dropping 2 dormant slivers to prevent him from dropping slivers. In the end, I got decked out faster than I deck him out.
I still considered inexperienced, but from this deck I really learned a lot and how the tips and tricks of playing MTG as well. Hope I can seek some advices on using this deck.
Hello! I'm new to the thread and I am very excited to work on this deck for as long as it can hold my attention. I built a budget version of the deck (read: no rare lands or Take Possessions) and came to realize that there was quite a good deal of power under the hood. Over time, I've adapted my deck to the better funded, pro-related builds (my first real build was, as with everybody, Wafo-Tapa's) and have been very happy with how the deck is running. I do, however, believe that there are a number of concerns and branches of deck building that are left to discuss and explore. I hope that none of them have been abused through debate for too long, but here are a few of my thoughts:
For the sake of consistency, most of these reference the Wafo-Tapa build that has been so popular.
1. We need an alternative strategy for playing against.. Well, ourselves. Allow me to introduce mine.
This deck needs a much stronger defense for the mirror (That is, the original popular build by Wafo). This was a match I could rarely get above 50%, but I think if we test enough we can break that barrier by exploring one synergistic, non-intrusive strategy. My main concern is the lockdown/stalemate from the trademark Telekinetic-to-Might-Sliver series when you're facing a field full of enemy slivers. Even with the utmost focus and thought, even a slight play by your opponent (frequently out of your interruption capabilities) can seriously force your Telekinetic Sliveragainst you. I have tested (not extremely extensively, but enough to see it work repeatedly) a sideboard that has one Primal Forcemage, as well as one Necrotic Sliver maindeck (I prefer it as part of my main deck toolbox). I will usually side out a Telekinetic for a Forcemage. This strategy involves making sure you can clear their field WITHOUT Telekinetic by using Necrotic in their end step. The following turn, you simply need to begin comboing out as usual with the Primal Forcemage (which is a search-able 2/2) COMING OUT FIRST. Then, with Reflex Sliver and the rest of his buddies, it will only require 4 2/2 slivers over all, which we know to be easily manageable with this deck, especially with Wild Pair in play. Because the Forcemage and Necrotic (assuming you time its activations properly) have pretty one-sided benefits, you are able to avoid the heart ache of putting down a Telekinetic only to witness a painful stalemate. Also, by using Necrotic Sliver instead of Telekinetic, you won't have to worry about your opponent dropping a hasted [card]Whitemane Lion[card] to start tapping you down with that difficult survival effort. Necrotic demands mana from your opponent he won't have open, while all your opponent needs to abuse your Telekinetic is, well, a sliver.
Sorry if that seem long and diluted. I'm trying to be as informative and helpful as possible. I really like this deck, and I do think I know what I'm talking about. I'll give a quick summary of how my strategy works:
1. Game 2 in the mirror, sideboard in Primal Forcemage for a Telekinetic. This doesn't really interfere with other strategies, so feel free to mix and match.
2. The endstep before the turn you're set to combo off, choke their mana and sliver resources using Necrotic. It's a very easy thing to set up, because opponents won't leave mana open to abuse a Necrotic you haven't even dropped yet.
3. The next turn, send in a 2/2 to search up Primal Forcemage. They will both still be 2/2's no matter how you stack it, but it won't matter.
4. Dig up 3 more slivers in the cheap degenerate Whitemane Lion fashion our deck is so famous for, then gnab Reflex for the attack. You should have upwards of 20 damage headed into a clear red zone.
(EDIT: I suppose I didn't explain very well why I decided on the Forcemage rather than the simple Might Sliver approach. Honestly, it isn't drastically better, but it has worked out situations with opponent's slivers. Using this strategy, I also make a point to take out my opponent's combo set up via Enchantment destruction (see below), so their unexpected Take Possession can't easily abuse the Forcemage's power in the same manner they might with Might Sliver. With the Forcemage, if they manage to live through the alpha strike by some means, you're more likely to get through more damage because killing the Forcemage does nothing to those he has already pumped. This is very important with Slaughter Pact, which is an increasingly popular tutor target for any UB Teachings deck against us. The Pact is useless in that situation to do anything if you have enough slivers pumped via the Forcemage, something not true with Might Sliver. Besides, if you feel the situation isn't right, this way you can use the MD Might Sliver and still have another option available that doesn't clog up deck space at all.)
I am NOT saying anybody should rely solely on this strategy. This is simply a very, very effective strategy to go hand in hand with your other methods for the mirror match. For only one spot in the sideboard (and one spot in the mainboard that I consider entirely necessary anyways), you greatly increase your win-percentage in the ridiculously frustrating mirror.
2. Reanimation is becoming more popular with every block event. I find it ridiculous that our deck's main defense against a deck capable of being as degenerate as ours is usually just 2 Extirpates sitting in the SB. I have no problem with Extirpate as an answer: it's cheap, direct and can be very effective. And we certainly shouldn't give graveyard hate MD spots because outside of the single matchup it is useless. The problem is making sure that one of those two Extirpates ends up in your hand when you need it after boarding it in. You may even need it more than once. Unfortunately, our deck has no way to search for these Extirpates, which I believe is unacceptable. In my sideboard, I've taken a similar but more effective route: using 1 Extirpate and 1 Withered Wretch.
Why Withered Wretch? If you need to handle the graveyard immediately and you can get/have Wild Pair out, WW is just one quick 2/2 search away. Yes, this does assume you have search capabilities, true. But Extirpate is entirely unsearchable in comparison, even with Wild Pair. The mass card draw route is the only way to search for Extirpate in your library, and that can waste searches and mana very quickly, and the draws might not even bring you one. It is better to be absolutely assured by using a card that is easier to find and can be played for free like any other 2/2 in the deck. (This is something I will point towards with another card later.)
Why one of each if I so prefer the Wretch? Well, there's no reason to have two Wretches if we only need one to have it found by Wild Pair. Other than the search, Extirpate is certainly better. So, if we are going to dedicate two slots to graveyard hate, and it would be useless to have both be WW, the other may as well be Extirpate, the less synergistic king of graveyard hate. Best of both worlds with a little innovation and no more effort or chance.
3. Pacts
To be honest, I have very little to say about the pacts, if only because I've done very little testing with them. I'm interested to see who has tried which Pact(s) and what results they've had. I'm particularly interested in Intervention and Slaughter pacts. I believe the former could be invaluable in the control match-up while the latter could be astounding in the mirror and Poison Slivers match ups.
4. Enchantment Hate
This is another mirror match problem I run into. Some players have been using Harmonic Sliver in their sideboard (some even main deck for whatever reason) and I believe that is extremely poor deck building. A friend of mine interested in the deck wanted me to try the sliver our for awhile as a part of the single-sliver toolbox set-up. Not once was I happy when I drew him. Not because he couldn't get the job done, no. He was great at that part. The thing is, with Harmonic Sliver, I constantly found myself having to revolved my playing style around how terribly it interacts with your own Wild Pair. If you have any decent opponent, they will know how to make you make forced, unavoidable decisions about having to blow up your own Wild Pair or Coalition Relic because of the Harmonic Sliver you played earlier. I'm not saying this is unbearable. Like others have said, this deck demands much concentration in skill, but this is a problem that not only asks you to think, but change your focus on something like not destroying your own permanents instead of trying to combo off.
So now that I've appropriately complained about the status quo, what do I recommend to go along with the other strategies we have employed?
Yes, I'm sure that sounds ridiculous. Why a bird that only destroys enchantments? Why should that be in a sliver deck? We have to remember that while this is a deck that functions with Slivers, our primary goal is Wild Pair abuse and board manipulation, not to say good old brute force doesn't have its place). In all of these categories, Cloudchaser is superior. Instead of forcing you to tiptoe around him once he's on the field to avoid blowing up your own permanents, Cloudchaser is very capable of adapting to your normal, usual end game strategies. Cloudchaser, unlike Harmonic Sliver, is Wild Pair-search-able with the rest of your 2/2 crew as well. He doesn't have artifact destruction capabilities, unfortunately, but unlike enchantments, artifact are already prone to the tapping tricks of Telekinetic Sliver (examples: prismatic lens, serrated arrows, and Triskelevus) in ways that make Harmonic Sliver seem unnecessary and show just how that sliver is another wasted use of mana and play choice.
The bird even has useful abilities.
Yes, I must sound ridiculous to say that. Cloudchaser Kestrel is great for covering the airgame in ways that only Telekinetic Sliver can. As I may have led on in the end of the last paragraph, I'm always happy to have them on the field at the same time or independently. It helps just fill a few more small holes in our gameplay without sacrificing efficiency or deck space.
Also, just to end on a little bit of a fun note, the "turn a permanent white" ability has served its place too. Don't believe me? Drop Cloudchaser Kestrel into any battle involving Sulfur Elemental involved and watch how much the damage math swings into your control.
Anyways, I hope somebody is able to make it through all that. I can't stress enough that THIS IS NOT ME TRYING TO REDEFINE THE DECK OR TELL ANYBODY THEY'RE WRONG. They're simply a few very useful, easy to incorporate tactics that will work hand-in-hand with your current strategies to really help bring up those win percentages.
Have a good one. Drop me an email at [EMAIL="Poochy818@gmail.com"]Poochy818@gmail.com[/EMAIL] if you want to chat about any suggestion in particular or private. Otherwise, I'm happy to discuss anything I said right here. Thanks for your time, and best of luck getting to 4GG!
The deck seems to have trouble with U/G Goyf and Pickles. With all the bounce and counters running around, I really don't think this deck is a good choice anymore.
Ok. I'm going to Grand Prix: San Fransisco and I'm going to play this deck since I already got first in a tournament with it. So I was wondering any updates to it? It seems pretty good versus WG Goyf and RDW. I don't know how it does against UG Goyf and Pickles, so I would love some insight.
The deck gets wrecked by ug goyf and pickles. Not to mention that teachings is only 50/50ish and gw goyf has been replaced by the better predator deck (which is also around even with this deck). At this point in the format, wild pair slivers is defunct and wont get you a good record.
have anyone tried with these cards in this deck?
1: saffi(2/2) + crypt champion(2/2) + essence warden(1/1)
-saffi can also bring back any important sliver
which can be easily pull off using wild pair with any other 2/2 creature and 1/1 gemhide sliver
2: cautery sliver
3: necrotic sliver
4: playing 4 darkheart sliver against rush decks, which means we need to:
+few swamps/ urborg
-mountain and red cards in the decks (since frenetic can do nothing much vs aggro)
5: gae's blessing (running 2 gae's blessing allows us to shuffle one another blessing into deck with 2 slivers)
This is block, those first cards aren't in the format.
I've thought of Necrotic, it seems pretty decent.
Darkheart should only be a 1 of if anything. You only want it to watch out for Psi Blast or something.
Blessing seems pretty decent against Poison Slivers, though that doesn't isn't around anymore.
Prismatic Lens or Search for Tomorrow or Evolution Charm, which one is the best to replace relic? ( I can get 1 relic max can should I just get 1 relic or omit relics and go with 4 of the above?)
Mono Blue Pickles is not an aggro deck. The hardest aggro matchup is Mono Red, followed by GR on WGr. Thornscape Battlemage out of the side really hurts, as does Dead // Gone MD and any other burn they may have. Mono Red is a nightmare, as they've got plenty of burn. I try and mulligan into Sliver-filled hands, as they give up a lot of speed when burning your guys, and if you can refill with Forsee or Dormant quickly enough you can beat them.
SB
4x Riftsweeper
4x Krosan Grip
3x Detritivore
1x Frenetic Sliver
1x Telekinetic Sliver
1x Whitemane Lion
1x Mystic Snake
That's my SB as of now. Krosan Grips are really good against the Ruel deck, which I expect plenty of, and stellar against the mirror.
It's actually probably the best idea for the deck, because you lose absolutely nothing by cutting the Darkheart and Dormant Slivers, and then I removed an additional Foresee. The manabase is easy to tweak, just remove the burnwillows, add in two plains, one mountain, and a forest, and it's fine.
The wishboard is really nice in the deck. Wafo-Tapa's list is hard pressed to win without a Wild Pair on the board, Glittering Wish not only allows that to happen, but it allows you to protect your wild pair should you get it. Some notable targets;
Mystic Snake
Fiery Justice (Good vs. morphs, lots of stuff)
Teferi's Moat
Teneb, The Harvester, or any dragon really
Frenetic Sliver
Dormant Sliver
Dark Heart Sliver
Harmonic Sliver
Void (unbelievable card in block, it was my MVP of the day if Wish wasn't)
Mystic Enforcer
Coalition Victory (I acutally stole not one, but two games with this card today, it's quite a lot easier to do than one would think and is hugely funny)
Go ahead and try with the Wishes, you definitely won't notice much missing from the deck, and you won't be disappointed.
EDIT: I'd like to affirm that I was playing Glittering Wish in this Sliver Control deck.
Although GW might seem like a good matchup, I played against Osyp's version that has Scryb Ranger. The card is crazy against you. They slap on Griffin Guide and it's hard to tap it down since it's Pro Blue.
Also, Stonewood Invocation rushes out against Telekinetic lock and wins games out of no where.
I think that Thornwield Archer should be in the SB against GW since the matchup really isn't that great of the lock.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378565
I remember there were quite a few Wild Pair decks at the Neutral Ground PTQ, and I definitely learned a lot from playing it. First and foremost is, the deck is really interactive and play skill reliant, especially against the teachings decks, but without quite a large amount of luck of drawing into and sticking your mana acceleration and fixing, the deck is in trouble. Second is that it's really not an entirely difficult deck to dismantle when playing against it, although nobody who could seemed to know how. This is probably due to the scarcity fo the deck, and possibly due to the player skill at the PTQs. Regardless, if you are careful, tap all of your mana correctly, and think before you go to win, there's very few people at one of these who will be able to stop it.
Third, and probably most importantly, control decks are hard to play at a long tournament such as a PTQ. When you are not presented with the obvious plays with this deck, it is about ten times worse on your head than a control deck is. As mentioned before, there are tons and tons and tons of options almost every turn when there's no obvious one, so it's really important to, if you plan on playing this at a PTQ, get a good night's sleep, eat breakfast, and make sure you don't get tired during the day. Unless you're incredibly lucky, in which case there's no need to
Finally, as mentioned, I sported the version with Glittering Wish. I'm still undecided upon which is the better deck. I shortened my budget on dual lands, so that may have affected some of my mana issues (of which there weren't much to begin with), but the addition of this card certainly boggles the mana base. That said, if one could work out a base that's really solid for the addition of the card, I'd reccommend it in the deck. I lost no real consistancy in powering out spells and wild pair, and the toolbox gained from the card is really great. The matches I lost were both to aggro decks, and there really isn't anything in the board that could help that. I would consider wishing for Fiery Justice, or Teferi's Moat, or Void on turn 4-5 without a Wild Pair in hand a much better play than throwing down a Foresee, or a Dormant Sliver, or a Dark Heart Sliver. What's even better with Void is that, especially in the G/W matchup, almost all of their creatures cost two mana. Serra Avenger, Mire Boa, Tarmogoyf, it's very effective there.
So, in short, I'd suggest first finding a way to tweak the mana base into supporting Glittering Wish without losing any mana consistancy. If you can do that, I'd suggest playing it, because I really think it helps the deck out quite a lot.
As for me, that's the last time I'll play this deck at a PTQ, because it's too much thinking for that long
Round 2 I was up against RDW, and I drew typical hands both games, and Wished into Dark Heart Sliver both games. It was a fairly easy victory.
Round 3 I got paired against a UBgw teachings deck. It was an incredibly easy match for me, but I am really good at playing against slow control decks, so I'm not sure this would be true for everyone. The trick against the deck for me was to keep seven cards in my hand, basically. Not to overplay, cast dormant sliver, etc. etc. It was an easy matchup in my opinion, however I think it was due to play skill against this deck more than anything.
Round 4 I got paired against a GW Tarmogoyf deck. I drew a good hand game 1, game 2 he drew a good hand, and game 3 I made a wrong decision on a Wish target. He had Krosan Grips and Kestrels in his deck, and I needed to stabilize. My choice was either Moat or Teneb, and I chose Teneb in fear of the enchantment destruction. Turns out he didn't have any in his hand, and he wound up drawing into enough creatures to swarm around him before I could do anything. Oh well.
Round 5 I was up against a UG Goyf deck, which I beat with stunning hands again. Both allowed me to play out quick Wild Pairs, and he was pretty much beaten after that.
Round 6 I was up against another teachings deck, which I again beat rather handily. This was a more traditional UBw deck, but the idea is still the same.
Round 7 I was up against a UG Pickles deck, which is an auto-loss with anything less than super-fast hands. Turns out this is what happened game 2, but games 1 and 3 turned out in my favor.
Round 8 I scooped to my friend to give him a chance to get into the top 8.
Round 1 I played Josh Sandler (great player) with GW. I mulled to 5 the first game on no land hands, and never saw a third land with the one I kept. Game 2 I mulled to four, with a fairly decent 2 Wall, 2 land hand, but never drew an out to Griffin Guide (or Mystic Enforcer, can't remember)
Round 2 I played BRG Control. He got a game loss for decklist error, and I beat him down game 2, even after being Voided x3.
Round 3 I played a fellow NGer Asher Hecht with UG. This is a pretty bad matchup for me, and he was able to tempo out and beat me both games. I mulled to 5 game 2 on 2 no land hands.
Round 4, playing for pride now, I played against Travis Jones with WG. I mulled to 5 both games, yet again. I almost pulled out a win game 2, but he got in there with Scryb Ranger armed with Stonewood Invocation.
A very unsuccesful day, but I think I played the best I could with the luck that screwed me over. Out of 7 total games, I mulled to 5 four times, and to 4 once. Pretty crappy, because these weren't even keepable hands. These were no land hands, and the debatable one was when I had 2 lands and 4 cards costing 4cc and above against Asher. I may add in a 23rd land to keep this from happening again, but I'm guessing it was just one of those days and not the deck itself.
No. Whitemane comes down at instant speed to pull out a Venser or Mystic Snake at instant speed. It can also be used in conjuntion with Wild Pair to fetch almost any sliver you need to answer whatever threat may be thrown at you.
Member: Team Revolution & MTGSalivation
If you read the feature matches from Grand Prix: Montreal, then you'll see that Wafo-Tapa actually manged some sick rolls of the die to save his Slivers from all manner of things.
I'm new here. I was introduced by a friend to use this deck and I observed many of the wafo tapa's gameplay and this deck is really excellent. Almost flawless when comes into comboing. The first block PTQ i lost 8 rounds in a row miserably due to not enough practice on this deck, mistakes which cost me game and also lack of experiences.
I just played against few players in MWS Online Play, and one guy particularly played Magus of Tarbenacle, Porphyr Nodes, Aven riftwatcher, Aeon chronicler. It's the key cards which I can see, runs careful consideration, mystical teaching, cancel, akroma, angel of wrath and maybe teferi, mage of zhalfir and not to mention boom bust.
My main concern is cards like Phorphyr nodes and magus of tarbanacle. For the nodes, it can be easily countered with frenetic slivers. But what if there's no frenetic slivers in play or counters ? Should i put in extirpate to go against the node ?
And also against another player, a mirror match, he used screeching sliver, what can I do if my slivers are less than opponents ? I even tried to get him deck out by dropping 2 dormant slivers to prevent him from dropping slivers. In the end, I got decked out faster than I deck him out.
I still considered inexperienced, but from this deck I really learned a lot and how the tips and tricks of playing MTG as well. Hope I can seek some advices on using this deck.
For the sake of consistency, most of these reference the Wafo-Tapa build that has been so popular.
1. We need an alternative strategy for playing against.. Well, ourselves. Allow me to introduce mine.
This deck needs a much stronger defense for the mirror (That is, the original popular build by Wafo). This was a match I could rarely get above 50%, but I think if we test enough we can break that barrier by exploring one synergistic, non-intrusive strategy. My main concern is the lockdown/stalemate from the trademark Telekinetic-to-Might-Sliver series when you're facing a field full of enemy slivers. Even with the utmost focus and thought, even a slight play by your opponent (frequently out of your interruption capabilities) can seriously force your Telekinetic Sliveragainst you. I have tested (not extremely extensively, but enough to see it work repeatedly) a sideboard that has one Primal Forcemage, as well as one Necrotic Sliver maindeck (I prefer it as part of my main deck toolbox). I will usually side out a Telekinetic for a Forcemage. This strategy involves making sure you can clear their field WITHOUT Telekinetic by using Necrotic in their end step. The following turn, you simply need to begin comboing out as usual with the Primal Forcemage (which is a search-able 2/2) COMING OUT FIRST. Then, with Reflex Sliver and the rest of his buddies, it will only require 4 2/2 slivers over all, which we know to be easily manageable with this deck, especially with Wild Pair in play. Because the Forcemage and Necrotic (assuming you time its activations properly) have pretty one-sided benefits, you are able to avoid the heart ache of putting down a Telekinetic only to witness a painful stalemate. Also, by using Necrotic Sliver instead of Telekinetic, you won't have to worry about your opponent dropping a hasted [card]Whitemane Lion[card] to start tapping you down with that difficult survival effort. Necrotic demands mana from your opponent he won't have open, while all your opponent needs to abuse your Telekinetic is, well, a sliver.
Sorry if that seem long and diluted. I'm trying to be as informative and helpful as possible. I really like this deck, and I do think I know what I'm talking about. I'll give a quick summary of how my strategy works:
1. Game 2 in the mirror, sideboard in Primal Forcemage for a Telekinetic. This doesn't really interfere with other strategies, so feel free to mix and match.
2. The endstep before the turn you're set to combo off, choke their mana and sliver resources using Necrotic. It's a very easy thing to set up, because opponents won't leave mana open to abuse a Necrotic you haven't even dropped yet.
3. The next turn, send in a 2/2 to search up Primal Forcemage. They will both still be 2/2's no matter how you stack it, but it won't matter.
4. Dig up 3 more slivers in the cheap degenerate Whitemane Lion fashion our deck is so famous for, then gnab Reflex for the attack. You should have upwards of 20 damage headed into a clear red zone.
(EDIT: I suppose I didn't explain very well why I decided on the Forcemage rather than the simple Might Sliver approach. Honestly, it isn't drastically better, but it has worked out situations with opponent's slivers. Using this strategy, I also make a point to take out my opponent's combo set up via Enchantment destruction (see below), so their unexpected Take Possession can't easily abuse the Forcemage's power in the same manner they might with Might Sliver. With the Forcemage, if they manage to live through the alpha strike by some means, you're more likely to get through more damage because killing the Forcemage does nothing to those he has already pumped. This is very important with Slaughter Pact, which is an increasingly popular tutor target for any UB Teachings deck against us. The Pact is useless in that situation to do anything if you have enough slivers pumped via the Forcemage, something not true with Might Sliver. Besides, if you feel the situation isn't right, this way you can use the MD Might Sliver and still have another option available that doesn't clog up deck space at all.)
I am NOT saying anybody should rely solely on this strategy. This is simply a very, very effective strategy to go hand in hand with your other methods for the mirror match. For only one spot in the sideboard (and one spot in the mainboard that I consider entirely necessary anyways), you greatly increase your win-percentage in the ridiculously frustrating mirror.
2. Reanimation is becoming more popular with every block event. I find it ridiculous that our deck's main defense against a deck capable of being as degenerate as ours is usually just 2 Extirpates sitting in the SB. I have no problem with Extirpate as an answer: it's cheap, direct and can be very effective. And we certainly shouldn't give graveyard hate MD spots because outside of the single matchup it is useless. The problem is making sure that one of those two Extirpates ends up in your hand when you need it after boarding it in. You may even need it more than once. Unfortunately, our deck has no way to search for these Extirpates, which I believe is unacceptable. In my sideboard, I've taken a similar but more effective route: using 1 Extirpate and 1 Withered Wretch.
Why Withered Wretch? If you need to handle the graveyard immediately and you can get/have Wild Pair out, WW is just one quick 2/2 search away. Yes, this does assume you have search capabilities, true. But Extirpate is entirely unsearchable in comparison, even with Wild Pair. The mass card draw route is the only way to search for Extirpate in your library, and that can waste searches and mana very quickly, and the draws might not even bring you one. It is better to be absolutely assured by using a card that is easier to find and can be played for free like any other 2/2 in the deck. (This is something I will point towards with another card later.)
Why one of each if I so prefer the Wretch? Well, there's no reason to have two Wretches if we only need one to have it found by Wild Pair. Other than the search, Extirpate is certainly better. So, if we are going to dedicate two slots to graveyard hate, and it would be useless to have both be WW, the other may as well be Extirpate, the less synergistic king of graveyard hate. Best of both worlds with a little innovation and no more effort or chance.
3. Pacts
To be honest, I have very little to say about the pacts, if only because I've done very little testing with them. I'm interested to see who has tried which Pact(s) and what results they've had. I'm particularly interested in Intervention and Slaughter pacts. I believe the former could be invaluable in the control match-up while the latter could be astounding in the mirror and Poison Slivers match ups.
4. Enchantment Hate
This is another mirror match problem I run into. Some players have been using Harmonic Sliver in their sideboard (some even main deck for whatever reason) and I believe that is extremely poor deck building. A friend of mine interested in the deck wanted me to try the sliver our for awhile as a part of the single-sliver toolbox set-up. Not once was I happy when I drew him. Not because he couldn't get the job done, no. He was great at that part. The thing is, with Harmonic Sliver, I constantly found myself having to revolved my playing style around how terribly it interacts with your own Wild Pair. If you have any decent opponent, they will know how to make you make forced, unavoidable decisions about having to blow up your own Wild Pair or Coalition Relic because of the Harmonic Sliver you played earlier. I'm not saying this is unbearable. Like others have said, this deck demands much concentration in skill, but this is a problem that not only asks you to think, but change your focus on something like not destroying your own permanents instead of trying to combo off.
So now that I've appropriately complained about the status quo, what do I recommend to go along with the other strategies we have employed?
1 Cloudchaser Kestrel in place of that Harmonic Sliver in the sideboard.
Yes, I'm sure that sounds ridiculous. Why a bird that only destroys enchantments? Why should that be in a sliver deck? We have to remember that while this is a deck that functions with Slivers, our primary goal is Wild Pair abuse and board manipulation, not to say good old brute force doesn't have its place). In all of these categories, Cloudchaser is superior. Instead of forcing you to tiptoe around him once he's on the field to avoid blowing up your own permanents, Cloudchaser is very capable of adapting to your normal, usual end game strategies. Cloudchaser, unlike Harmonic Sliver, is Wild Pair-search-able with the rest of your 2/2 crew as well. He doesn't have artifact destruction capabilities, unfortunately, but unlike enchantments, artifact are already prone to the tapping tricks of Telekinetic Sliver (examples: prismatic lens, serrated arrows, and Triskelevus) in ways that make Harmonic Sliver seem unnecessary and show just how that sliver is another wasted use of mana and play choice.
The bird even has useful abilities.
Yes, I must sound ridiculous to say that. Cloudchaser Kestrel is great for covering the airgame in ways that only Telekinetic Sliver can. As I may have led on in the end of the last paragraph, I'm always happy to have them on the field at the same time or independently. It helps just fill a few more small holes in our gameplay without sacrificing efficiency or deck space.
Also, just to end on a little bit of a fun note, the "turn a permanent white" ability has served its place too. Don't believe me? Drop Cloudchaser Kestrel into any battle involving Sulfur Elemental involved and watch how much the damage math swings into your control.
Anyways, I hope somebody is able to make it through all that. I can't stress enough that THIS IS NOT ME TRYING TO REDEFINE THE DECK OR TELL ANYBODY THEY'RE WRONG. They're simply a few very useful, easy to incorporate tactics that will work hand-in-hand with your current strategies to really help bring up those win percentages.
Have a good one. Drop me an email at [EMAIL="Poochy818@gmail.com"]Poochy818@gmail.com[/EMAIL] if you want to chat about any suggestion in particular or private. Otherwise, I'm happy to discuss anything I said right here. Thanks for your time, and best of luck getting to 4GG!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378565
The deck gets wrecked by ug goyf and pickles. Not to mention that teachings is only 50/50ish and gw goyf has been replaced by the better predator deck (which is also around even with this deck). At this point in the format, wild pair slivers is defunct and wont get you a good record.
1: saffi(2/2) + crypt champion(2/2) + essence warden(1/1)
-saffi can also bring back any important sliver
which can be easily pull off using wild pair with any other 2/2 creature and 1/1 gemhide sliver
2: cautery sliver
3: necrotic sliver
4: playing 4 darkheart sliver against rush decks, which means we need to:
+few swamps/ urborg
-mountain and red cards in the decks (since frenetic can do nothing much vs aggro)
5: gae's blessing (running 2 gae's blessing allows us to shuffle one another blessing into deck with 2 slivers)
random ideas~
I've thought of Necrotic, it seems pretty decent.
Darkheart should only be a 1 of if anything. You only want it to watch out for Psi Blast or something.
Blessing seems pretty decent against Poison Slivers, though that doesn't isn't around anymore.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378565
blessing can bring back the sacked slivers=)