I've been testing out this variant of wild pair slivers and have gotten a consistant 2-2 or 3-1 in a couple of FNMs I'm starting to take it more seriously because I am looking forward to the next round of PTQs, which for me is on the 23. I think this deck could be competitive, but then again, what do I know? Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
I don't have a good sideboard lined up so help with that would be much appreciated. Thanks guys.
*Edit*
How the deck actually works:
You use Dormant Sliver for massive draw (usually at least two out) with Wild pair you draw for the extra sliver as well. This will eventually stick me with either a disintegrate in my hand or the opponent locked down (Telekinetic Sliver) untill I do get a disintegrate and tap sac for lots of mana (i.e. Gemhide Sliver and Basal Sliver. and anything I cant deal with is dealt with quite nicely by my Delays and Cancels.
Have you considered Necrotic Sliver as a 1 of? you have the fixing to make it viable as well as a tutor in Wild Pair. With all of the slivers coming down, a repeatable Vindicate seems good. and with the gemhides, and all the cards you should be drawing, an outlet for excess land might be nice. I think Sliversmith would be neat in this regard, and it comboes with necrotic to read, 4 tap: gain all CIP and LP effects of your slivers and destroy a permanent. Mull it over a bit, though this might take the deck in an entirely different direction.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
L1 judge since 1/30/12 (lapsed as of 1/30/13)
My Friend Code is: 0146-9645-8893
Actually, Necrotic might be be a good replacement for psionic, which I have been having troubles with because of its mana cost when it does wind up in my hand... I will try it out. Thanks.
The problem I have with Psionic is that it is so darned mana expensive. Five mana is a bit when I need to be dropping slivers a lot. With the one I can Pair it out, and if it is down to having to use psionic sliver, I would almost rather pair out might sliver and sac my dormants and swing, probably with a shadow out. I don't know. Psionic sliver just seems like a card that is really really cool on the outside, but too slow on the inside. I would need ten slivers out for it to be a win, and that is a bit of an investment. Swinging with might takes less, and disintegrate takes less than that, especially since I can tap lands with it as well.
I would second the idea of a necrotic sliver and sliversmith. It is a very controlling combo. You would need to make the deck differently to either keep your hand full...and the dorment slivers should make that work out nicely.
I would almost consider adding Homing Sliver as a backup plan if Wild Pair fails.
As for a sideboard, there are cards like Krosan Grip or Wipe Away. It all depends on what kind of problems the deck faces. You could even throw in an Extirpate.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am looking for Date Stamped promos from Khans of Tarkir block so I can finish my set. Check my wants if you have any.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
The thing is that I don't usually attack for the win, Might and Shadow are there for when there is no other good option. I have not had a problem with Basal sliver being the way out of Dormant sliver... ever. Frenetic is nice and all, a decent tech against damnation, too, but I simply wouldn't know what to take out for it... the deck is kind of tight the way it is and it is hard to find things to take out for things that I know may be better.
I tried necrotic sliver in the deck, proved to be not very handy, sideboard material, same as the psionic I have there in the list. Thinking of using either a one of of either Whitemane lion or Homing sliver... The lion is quite nice, especially with wildpair out. Two mana= any sliver I want. My mana base has proven to be useful with a couple of off color cards thanks to Gemstone mine and Gemhide sliver so I am quite happy with it.
Sliversmith changes the whole deck, so that would be a great idea for another sliver deck, but not this one.
I saw that Wafo-Tapa used a wild pair deck in Montreal, used Mystic Snake (I kind of like that) and a couple other things and opted out of the Disintegrate win, and went for the might sliver one.
Thanks for the help so far guys. and I am also looking at something like this for a sideboard:
Thanks for your answers. Is Psionic Sliver good for this deck? I was thinking Reflex + Psionic means you probably would be able to "sac" your slivers for direct burn.
psionic is not the win con Wafo tapa is running. you could use it in the 1st posters version though
Hominf is not needed ( you have wild pair)
basal isn't either
disintegrate fits into the 1st posters deck but not wafo tapa's
the list that the great wafo tapa is using is a completely different list from the one posted on the 1st post.
his deck wins by quick acceleration to wild pair (via relics) and bringing in slivers via whitemane lion.
wall of roots are mana accelerators and aggro walls.
dormant slivers and for card draw. and don't worry you can always use darkheart to sac them when you wanna swing FTW.
the snakes and vensers are used to handle potential problems.
and i must say it is rather ingenious to use frenetic sliver. i always tought it was rather odd and pointless but he proved me wrong big time. he used it to evade most damnations in the pro tour (although it is based on luck).
well its obvious waht the other cards are for.
the swing for the win consists of reflex sliver, might sliver, darkheart sliver(to sac the dormants) and other slivers to swing for max dmg. (also telekinetic to tap blockers).
and look at the sideboard, you have sliver legion and teneb which could be your secondary win cons.
all in all i gotta say his deck is a masterpiece. it does have weaknesses but damn its original and it kicks ass too
someone in the casual forum had a terrific idea hypergenesis.
It has combo written all over it, and it fits like a glove in this deck.
Actually that's the nutlow. I can't imagine hypergenisis being good in this deck. The decks slots are extremely uninterchangeable, and it accomplishes nothing for the decks overrall goal.
That was an idea I had a while ago with Glittering Wish to fetch slivers.
I've been testing this and found that it needs good hands to win, and only an exceptionally good player can pilot it well. On MWS, when testing other decks, I have beat it almost every time because it's an expert level deck (kinda like Heartbeat, maybe)
I also wanted to point out to everyone that you can use Frenetic Sliver to get rid of your Dormant Slivers. When you flip a coin, the Dorment Sliver would either be removed from the game or sent to the graveyard via Frenetic's ability.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Procrastinator of Project Mayhem
Procrastination is like masturbation. Its only fun until you realize you just screwed yourself.
Are the Coalition Relics replaceable with Prismatic Lens or Search for Tomorrows?
And Are Wall of Roots replaceable with Evolution Charms?(I know its 99% not recommened but barely acceptable?)
with 1 day left til PTQ I dunno if I can get 4 of each of those cards. Even the card shop has no stock. I bought 2 wild pairs, still need 2 wild pairs !!!
I have an idea, Can you use Psionic Sliver then fast effect use the ability of Frenetic Sliver, to save the sliver from killing itself?.. just like Mangara of Corondor's ability then fast effect Momentary blink to save it.
prismatic lenses are slower than coalition relic if you ask me. at 1st i was skeptical about relic's usefulness but soon realised i was dead wrong. relics is good. very good. but if you dont have time to dig them up i suppose the lenses will be fine
as for wall of roots. they are both your defenders and your mana accelerators. its really important. if you don't have them you'll find your self being hit hard early.
forsees really help to dig up the cards you want. i'd say you need a few of em.
as for psionic sliver, i personally don't like em. but i guess you could experiment with them and let us know the results
I've recently just begun to play this in gear for the upcoming PTQ, and it is a great deck, and rewards good play. I think wafo's MD is allmost flawless, but his sb is very negotiable.
3 x detritivore, 3x rift sweeper is the only given in his SB.
I agree in that this is possibly the hardest deck to sideboard with I've ever played. That is, in part, why I chose to put Glittering Wish in it, because it makes sideboarding very easy, you usually don't have to!
The second Lion, Frenetic #4 and Snakes are also must-have in the SB, they're extremely useful but only in certain matchups (like black control decks) where you don't need Telekinetic to tap their threats (I usually side 2 Telekinetics out, because despite what Peebles-Mundy says in his so called "Primer", you cannot even HOPE to tap your opponent down every turn not allowing them to cast Damnation, because with a single land in hand and 4 storage counters they can already clean the board...) but rather you need to keep Damnation and spot removal away from your guys.
Yes, you can try and save Psionic Sliver with Frenetic's ability but I really dunno where you'd fit a Psionic, with such a tight list...
SBing is usually a problem because of how tight it is
@argumentative:
Relic are needed but Prismatic Lenses are the "less-worse" substitute you can find.
Relic are mana acceleration AND fixing, both in one, unlike the Lenses that are accel OR fixing..
Wall of Roots, on the other hand, cannot find any decent replacement, giving fits to Tarmagoyf, MonoRed and WW while speeding you up.
Fair comments here, and you do not need a complement of telekentic against tendrils/damnation decks. I also grab the extra lion, snake and fentetic for these matchups.
Also a little strategy i've been using is siding out wall of roots against these decks. This seems quite crazy but it is a similar concept to siding out sakura tribe elder against non-agro decks in the old heartbeat combo decks. If the wall of roots cannot block anything, its place should be questioned. More often than not my sb against black control decks is
Are the Coalition Relics replaceable with Prismatic Lens or Search for Tomorrows?
And Are Wall of Roots replaceable with Evolution Charms?(I know its 99% not recommened but barely acceptable?)
And are foresees really necessary?
The coalition relicas are not replaceable because they help get out wild pair faster than the lens or help get the white for the whitemane lion. They can even play the t4 Take Possession if you wanted to.
Wall of roots help search for creatures using wild pair because you play the wall and when the wild pair triggers onto the stack you add a -0/-1 counter so its combines p/t is equal to 4.
The foresees help out as card advantage which is also good because it removes unneeded cards to help draw out a needed card liek wild pair or mana accel.
I recently played against UB Teachings and ran into the problem of Take Possession. It completely stopped me from attacking and gave them the long game since I lost my Venser earlier.
Has anyone tried to figure out the SB or fix it? It seems that the alternate win conditions are just there and not a solid strategy.
Seriously though, this deck is capable of beating any deck in the format if you play really really well, that's why Wafo-Tapa finished first at the end of the swiss at the GP. Granted, he's one of the best players in the world, but the way to fix any matchup with this deck is to play really well. The sideboard really doesn't help all that much in the long run; it only provides a few supports for the main engine of the deck, and that's the part that needs to be played with, not the board. Honestly this deck could probably do fine without a sideboard, but none of us are that crazy
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Here is the deck.
7 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
6 Island
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Basal Sliver
4 Dormant Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
1 Might Sliver
1 Psionic Sliver
3 Reflex Sliver
1 Shadow Sliver
4 Telekinetic Sliver
4 Wall of Roots
3 Cancel
4 Delay
2 Disintegrate
Enchantments:
3 Wild Pair
I don't have a good sideboard lined up so help with that would be much appreciated. Thanks guys.
*Edit*
How the deck actually works:
You use Dormant Sliver for massive draw (usually at least two out) with Wild pair you draw for the extra sliver as well. This will eventually stick me with either a disintegrate in my hand or the opponent locked down (Telekinetic Sliver) untill I do get a disintegrate and tap sac for lots of mana (i.e. Gemhide Sliver and Basal Sliver. and anything I cant deal with is dealt with quite nicely by my Delays and Cancels.
My Friend Code is: 0146-9645-8893
I would almost consider adding Homing Sliver as a backup plan if Wild Pair fails.
As for a sideboard, there are cards like Krosan Grip or Wipe Away. It all depends on what kind of problems the deck faces. You could even throw in an Extirpate.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
What would a good sb look like for this as well?
If you have dormant sliver in play, slivers have defender so they cant attack?
1. Basal Sliver - this is sub par.
2. Frenetic Sliver - activate the ability that your Dormant/s obtain, it'll die/RFG and swing.
-TEAM REVOLUTION
I tried necrotic sliver in the deck, proved to be not very handy, sideboard material, same as the psionic I have there in the list. Thinking of using either a one of of either Whitemane lion or Homing sliver... The lion is quite nice, especially with wildpair out. Two mana= any sliver I want. My mana base has proven to be useful with a couple of off color cards thanks to Gemstone mine and Gemhide sliver so I am quite happy with it.
Sliversmith changes the whole deck, so that would be a great idea for another sliver deck, but not this one.
I saw that Wafo-Tapa used a wild pair deck in Montreal, used Mystic Snake (I kind of like that) and a couple other things and opted out of the Disintegrate win, and went for the might sliver one.
Thanks for the help so far guys. and I am also looking at something like this for a sideboard:
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Might Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Psionic Sliver
1 Cancel
2 Extirpate
4 Krosan Grip
1 Wild Pair
1 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Pendelhaven
4 Forest
6 Island
1 Urza's Factory
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Plains
1 Mountain
Creatures
1 Whitemane Lion
4 Wall of Roots
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Dormant Sliver
3 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Reflex Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
3 Frenetic Sliver
1 Mystic Snake
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Might Sliver
4 Foresee
4 Coalition Relic
4 Wild Pair
2 Take Possession
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Frenetic Sliver
2 Extirpate
3 Detritivore
3 Riftsweeper
1 Sliver Legion
1 Mystic Snake
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Vesuva
The deck is a house. So far, I've only lost one game to GW Tarmogoyf. I just can see how it would lose to aggro unless it gets a horrible draw.
and also I heard this deck is quite weak considering there are krosan grips, cloudchaser kestrels, disenchants. Is that true?
Also what are your opinions on these slivers?
Homing Sliver
Basal Sliver (Is the disintegrate strategy still viable?)
and Necrotic Sliver?(I thought this was an autoinclude for Fortune Thiefs etc)
Hominf is not needed ( you have wild pair)
basal isn't either
disintegrate fits into the 1st posters deck but not wafo tapa's
the list that the great wafo tapa is using is a completely different list from the one posted on the 1st post.
his deck wins by quick acceleration to wild pair (via relics) and bringing in slivers via whitemane lion.
wall of roots are mana accelerators and aggro walls.
dormant slivers and for card draw. and don't worry you can always use darkheart to sac them when you wanna swing FTW.
the snakes and vensers are used to handle potential problems.
and i must say it is rather ingenious to use frenetic sliver. i always tought it was rather odd and pointless but he proved me wrong big time. he used it to evade most damnations in the pro tour (although it is based on luck).
well its obvious waht the other cards are for.
the swing for the win consists of reflex sliver, might sliver, darkheart sliver(to sac the dormants) and other slivers to swing for max dmg. (also telekinetic to tap blockers).
and look at the sideboard, you have sliver legion and teneb which could be your secondary win cons.
all in all i gotta say his deck is a masterpiece. it does have weaknesses but damn its original and it kicks ass too
Actually that's the nutlow. I can't imagine hypergenisis being good in this deck. The decks slots are extremely uninterchangeable, and it accomplishes nothing for the decks overrall goal.
I've been testing this and found that it needs good hands to win, and only an exceptionally good player can pilot it well. On MWS, when testing other decks, I have beat it almost every time because it's an expert level deck (kinda like Heartbeat, maybe)
And Are Wall of Roots replaceable with Evolution Charms?(I know its 99% not recommened but barely acceptable?)
with 1 day left til PTQ I dunno if I can get 4 of each of those cards. Even the card shop has no stock. I bought 2 wild pairs, still need 2 wild pairs !!!
And are foresees really necessary?
I have an idea, Can you use Psionic Sliver then fast effect use the ability of Frenetic Sliver, to save the sliver from killing itself?.. just like Mangara of Corondor's ability then fast effect Momentary blink to save it.
^^
as for wall of roots. they are both your defenders and your mana accelerators. its really important. if you don't have them you'll find your self being hit hard early.
forsees really help to dig up the cards you want. i'd say you need a few of em.
as for psionic sliver, i personally don't like em. but i guess you could experiment with them and let us know the results
3 x detritivore, 3x rift sweeper is the only given in his SB.
Fair comments here, and you do not need a complement of telekentic against tendrils/damnation decks. I also grab the extra lion, snake and fentetic for these matchups.
Also a little strategy i've been using is siding out wall of roots against these decks. This seems quite crazy but it is a similar concept to siding out sakura tribe elder against non-agro decks in the old heartbeat combo decks. If the wall of roots cannot block anything, its place should be questioned. More often than not my sb against black control decks is
-2 telekenetic
-4 wall of roots
+1 lion
+1 Snake
+1 Frenetic
+3 detritivore
The coalition relicas are not replaceable because they help get out wild pair faster than the lens or help get the white for the whitemane lion. They can even play the t4 Take Possession if you wanted to.
Wall of roots help search for creatures using wild pair because you play the wall and when the wild pair triggers onto the stack you add a -0/-1 counter so its combines p/t is equal to 4.
The foresees help out as card advantage which is also good because it removes unneeded cards to help draw out a needed card liek wild pair or mana accel.
Has anyone tried to figure out the SB or fix it? It seems that the alternate win conditions are just there and not a solid strategy.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378565
Seriously though, this deck is capable of beating any deck in the format if you play really really well, that's why Wafo-Tapa finished first at the end of the swiss at the GP. Granted, he's one of the best players in the world, but the way to fix any matchup with this deck is to play really well. The sideboard really doesn't help all that much in the long run; it only provides a few supports for the main engine of the deck, and that's the part that needs to be played with, not the board. Honestly this deck could probably do fine without a sideboard, but none of us are that crazy