Is red really necessary for this deck? It adds Bogardan Hellkite and some boom//busts but honestly it doesn't seem like those cards are really that important. Thoughts?
Hellkite is very necessary for the deck since you really need a finisher if you have an active tecahings or if your tarmogoyfs get extirpated. Also, cutting red cuts 1 land and 5 total slots including that land while it gives you a card that can really kill the strategy of many control decks.
Is red really necessary for this deck? It adds Bogardan Hellkite and some boom//busts but honestly it doesn't seem like those cards are really that important. Thoughts?
This is wildly incorrect. Hellkite can be powered out somewhere in the range of turn 5 due to Lenses and Relics, while Boom/Bust literally reads "Win the game" against any Pact. I don't think you quite realize how good "win the game" is.
So after some testing, we sent one person up to the Sat Boston PTQ with a variation of big mana.
Void was playing very under par. With only two copies main deck, they were hardly ever making an appearance. Granted, when played against G/W, it was a shut out. But the G/W match up wasn't one that we're fearing.
I took out a single Imp's mischief and a slaughter pact for the two voids.
After Void was dispatched from the main deck, the Imp's mischief returned along with another copy of Teachings.
Though I'm not sure if I wanted another copy of teachings, or an additional copy of foresee. The deck often draws dead after gasing out.
I really wanted to add a single Draining whelk into the main deck. Especially with the newly added third teachings. Though one could argue a pact of negation as well. The problem with Whelk is that it's a win more card. But it would be nice having a counter in the main deck.
Another card I'd like to see is a playset of Shadowmage Infiltraitor. Though, unlike draining whelk, I'de have to change a large part of the deck to get this to fit.
Playtesting went great as well.
Against Antonio De Rosa's G/U, Big mana went 4-0 pre and 4-0 post board.
Though I must admit, this was with void in the maindeck.
Against G/W, 4-0 for big mana. No postboard was tested.
B/R Korlash control 5-1
Turn 2 auger turn 3 auger turn 4 auger. Only game lost.
A miser's copy of disintegrate?
I can't condone that. Especially with 1/2 as much card draw as Ollie had.
And does anyone still think it's necessary to play 3 slaughter pacts? With Korlash selling through the roof, there has to be someone playing them.
Evan Erwin is touting his MBC deck all over the Magic show lately. Expect some to follow his lead. Anyone ever consider putting a death rattle into their build? Smashes everything except green. eh....maybe not the best idea right now.
Love the inclusion of Draining whelk btw. But you're missing a huge advantage in your deck. Haunting Hymn is a MUST include. It's typical the first card I tutor for after i damnation. Or the card I get prior to a damnation. I can't imagine playing at least one copy in ANY U/B teachings deck.
This is wildly incorrect. Hellkite can be powered out somewhere in the range of turn 5 due to Lenses and Relics, while Boom/Bust literally reads "Win the game" against any Pact. I don't think you quite realize how good "win the game" is.
I disagree red isn't necessary; it's just that with all the card draw, color fixing, and general lack of red, why not? Mana problems are usually not the problem. The Hellkite provides a good thing to tutor for with teachings to wipe the board or be big and bad.
Also, I really like the idea of Disintegrate, but a creature is simply a better finisher.
The thing about Red is that it provides you with numerous outs against 'big mana' control decks (UB/x teachings, Baron Harkkonnen) bogardan hellkite offers a key draw for their counters/mana allowing you to do more aggressive things during your main phase. Boom/Bust is clutch in most control matchups, giving you the opportunity to win the game on the fifth turn outright.
My quandry is the white, personally. Yes, I know that Aven Riftwatcher is strong, temporal isolation is 'important', and heroes remembered is good as a surprise (really though.). I just don't like missing out on what are otherwise ridiculous cards (quagnoth), and it seems like white is the only big hole.
The thing about Red is that it provides you with numerous outs against 'big mana' control decks (UB/x teachings, Baron Harkkonnen) bogardan hellkite offers a key draw for their counters/mana allowing you to do more aggressive things during your main phase. Boom/Bust is clutch in most control matchups, giving you the opportunity to win the game on the fifth turn outright.
My quandry is the white, personally. Yes, I know that Aven Riftwatcher is strong, temporal isolation is 'important', and heroes remembered is good as a surprise (really though.). I just don't like missing out on what are otherwise ridiculous cards (quagnoth), and it seems like white is the only big hole.
Maybe I'm missing something. Little help?
The thing about this deck is that it doesn't really matter if you have white. If you're having mana problems caused by drawing the lone plains, you can take it out and just rely on the artifacts.
Mori isn't nearly that good when he can't abuse thew language barrier and karsten isn't close to being the best constructed player in the world. Also, I'm pretty sure Kenji is the best constructed player in the world (as well as limited......) but that's neither here nor there.
I love how people say an entire arch-type (turbo relic control) is bad because "11th at a 757 man gp isn't that impresseve".
Yeh my bad on Kenji
Mori took out Jap Nats... no language issues there I'm guessing. Watch his vids, he makes fantastic plays w/out using discussions at all.
Re: the deck.
Don't screw around with it much. Olivier Ruel knows his stuff. MTGSal users can't really re-configure the whole thing.
This deck reminds me of Greater Gifts a fair bit, as well as Bob Maher's R/W Rift from GP: Detroit. Lots of ways to gain an advantage and strong finishers.
I disagree; make a deck with your own stuff because you know your stuff too and the deck should be made for you. And I'm sure if that if Ruel goes to GPSF with a turbo relic deck it will be different.
I disagree; make a deck with your own stuff because you know your stuff too and the deck should be made for you. And I'm sure if that if Ruel goes to GPSF with a turbo relic deck it will be different.
On top of that Ruel made the decisions for his deck lists based on his predictions for the meta game. And just like any other person playing magic, his deck list might not be perfect for your local meta game or the meta you're about to enter.
I am very happy with this list. 2 Bogardans works wonders. Cast 1 then tutor up another. GG. I've found that I've been using Imp's Mischief more often than I thought I would. Rebuff the Wicked is awesome against other Teachings decks and stops Tendrils along with LD.
I've never really been able to use Haunting Hymn MD. I may put one in the SB but not MD. I know how good it is but I really have no need for it MD with my Meta.
The point for the hymn is for the U/B "mirror match". Not to mention the synergy with the other cards that have been mentioned. Prime example is in the Goyf matchup using damn to clear followed by a hymn, helps you to completely control the game. You need your own hymn for the mirror so you can try to negate their card draw as well as hitting their hymn. Being able to tutor up the hymn can save you many games.
On top of that Ruel made the decisions for his deck lists based on his predictions for the meta game. And just like any other person playing magic, his deck list might not be perfect for your local meta game or the meta you're about to enter.
Obviously. But you're talking 2-3 cards different MD at most, and SB is the meta change predominantly.
With numerous sites showing that GW Goyf is slipping in popularity against UG Goyf and Mono Red on MODO, how should the sideboard change to reflect this metagame shift? I'm pretty sure Fortune Thief would be the first thing to go, but I'm not sure if anything else needs to be changed? Any suggestions are appreciated.
This is wildly incorrect. Hellkite can be powered out somewhere in the range of turn 5 due to Lenses and Relics, while Boom/Bust literally reads "Win the game" against any Pact. I don't think you quite realize how good "win the game" is.
Void was playing very under par. With only two copies main deck, they were hardly ever making an appearance. Granted, when played against G/W, it was a shut out. But the G/W match up wasn't one that we're fearing.
I took out a single Imp's mischief and a slaughter pact for the two voids.
After Void was dispatched from the main deck, the Imp's mischief returned along with another copy of Teachings.
Though I'm not sure if I wanted another copy of teachings, or an additional copy of foresee. The deck often draws dead after gasing out.
I really wanted to add a single Draining whelk into the main deck. Especially with the newly added third teachings. Though one could argue a pact of negation as well. The problem with Whelk is that it's a win more card. But it would be nice having a counter in the main deck.
Another card I'd like to see is a playset of Shadowmage Infiltraitor. Though, unlike draining whelk, I'de have to change a large part of the deck to get this to fit.
Playtesting went great as well.
Against Antonio De Rosa's G/U, Big mana went 4-0 pre and 4-0 post board.
Though I must admit, this was with void in the maindeck.
Against G/W, 4-0 for big mana. No postboard was tested.
B/R Korlash control 5-1
Turn 2 auger turn 3 auger turn 4 auger. Only game lost.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2115845#post2115845
1 Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Urza's Factory
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Calciform Pools
6 Island
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Molten Slagheap
2 Dreadship Reef
Creatures 5
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Draining Whelk
4 Prismatic Lens
4 Coalition Relic
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Damnation
4 Mystical Teachings
3 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Temporal Isolation
3 Careful Consideration
3 Take Possession
1 Disintegrate
2 Pull from Eternity
3 Delay
1 Heroes Remembered
2 Boom/Bust
2 Rebuff the Wicked
2 Return to Dust
1 Sudden Death
1 Extirpate
1 Haunting Hymn
I can't condone that. Especially with 1/2 as much card draw as Ollie had.
And does anyone still think it's necessary to play 3 slaughter pacts? With Korlash selling through the roof, there has to be someone playing them.
Evan Erwin is touting his MBC deck all over the Magic show lately. Expect some to follow his lead. Anyone ever consider putting a death rattle into their build? Smashes everything except green. eh....maybe not the best idea right now.
Love the inclusion of Draining whelk btw. But you're missing a huge advantage in your deck. Haunting Hymn is a MUST include. It's typical the first card I tutor for after i damnation. Or the card I get prior to a damnation. I can't imagine playing at least one copy in ANY U/B teachings deck.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2115845#post2115845
I disagree red isn't necessary; it's just that with all the card draw, color fixing, and general lack of red, why not? Mana problems are usually not the problem. The Hellkite provides a good thing to tutor for with teachings to wipe the board or be big and bad.
Also, I really like the idea of Disintegrate, but a creature is simply a better finisher.
Thank you Feste
Some trailers/clips to really good movies (especially the 1st one): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI1NKLmfP3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
My quandry is the white, personally. Yes, I know that Aven Riftwatcher is strong, temporal isolation is 'important', and heroes remembered is good as a surprise (really though.). I just don't like missing out on what are otherwise ridiculous cards (quagnoth), and it seems like white is the only big hole.
Maybe I'm missing something. Little help?
3 matches and faced 3 teachings decks.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2115845#post2115845
Reiterate
The thing about this deck is that it doesn't really matter if you have white. If you're having mana problems caused by drawing the lone plains, you can take it out and just rely on the artifacts.
Thank you Feste
Some trailers/clips to really good movies (especially the 1st one): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI1NKLmfP3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
Yeh my bad on Kenji
Mori took out Jap Nats... no language issues there I'm guessing. Watch his vids, he makes fantastic plays w/out using discussions at all.
Re: the deck.
Don't screw around with it much. Olivier Ruel knows his stuff. MTGSal users can't really re-configure the whole thing.
This deck reminds me of Greater Gifts a fair bit, as well as Bob Maher's R/W Rift from GP: Detroit. Lots of ways to gain an advantage and strong finishers.
-TEAM REVOLUTION
Thank you Feste
Some trailers/clips to really good movies (especially the 1st one): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI1NKLmfP3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
On top of that Ruel made the decisions for his deck lists based on his predictions for the meta game. And just like any other person playing magic, his deck list might not be perfect for your local meta game or the meta you're about to enter.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2115845#post2115845
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Urza’s Facotry
2 Dreadship Reef
1 Calciform Pools
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
6 Island
Creatures: 5
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Prismatic Lens
4 Coalition Relic
4 Damnation
4 Careful Consideration
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Foresee
2 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Disintegrate
2 Imp’s Mischief
3 Take Possession
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Krosan Grip
1 Heroes Remembered
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Extirpate
1 Pull from Eternity
2 Rebuff the Wicked
1 Pact of Negation
1 Draining Whelk
2 Reiterate
I am very happy with this list. 2 Bogardans works wonders. Cast 1 then tutor up another. GG. I've found that I've been using Imp's Mischief more often than I thought I would. Rebuff the Wicked is awesome against other Teachings decks and stops Tendrils along with LD.
Thoughts?
Thank you Feste
Some trailers/clips to really good movies (especially the 1st one): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI1NKLmfP3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
I've never really been able to use Haunting Hymn MD. I may put one in the SB but not MD. I know how good it is but I really have no need for it MD with my Meta.
Thank you Feste
Some trailers/clips to really good movies (especially the 1st one): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI1NKLmfP3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
Obviously. But you're talking 2-3 cards different MD at most, and SB is the meta change predominantly.
The deck is VERY solid as it is.
-TEAM REVOLUTION
also dont forget to leave a single copy of haunting hym, after their initial rush a hym just wrecks them
my have/wants list: :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=95773
Against Academy Ruins + Triskelavus just TAKE POSSESION one of them and they are dead
Team Revolution Member