I was just wondering if anyone have came up with a descent Wild Pair using Time Spiral, Time Shifted and Planar Chaos cards? It's just seems like a nice card to build a deck around. Regards
Cool With Lotus Bloom in opening hand WP comes out on turn 4 and Timbermare/Bogardan Hellkite and some stuff hits the table hard on turn 5. And in this format it seems kinda good with that kind of striking force on turn 5. Cheers!
Ive put in some work on a sliver version that can be seen in the decks for critique section.
All slivers have even P/T totals, and sinew/might sliver allow you to work your way up in toughness, kind of like a rebel chain.
It utilizes Wild Pair as more of a really synergystic card than a combo win condition. Its built as kind of an Aggro w/ Toolbox.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I support WotC's goal of shaping Modern in favor of diversity.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
Wild Pair is, apparently, somewhat of a force in the metagame. It provides card advantage, which is hard to do in this pool (although green's already got the awesome Harmonize).
It looks pretty solid, I would test it but I found another deck I like better.
That... is how you build a deck around Wild Pair.
That's a great idea. Whitemane Lion fetches Whitemane Lion, both bounce, replay both, get TK slivers, continue the awesomeness.
The only concern is that you have to land a Wild Pair to make it *really* click, although I guess it will normally play out like a kind of Opposition deck.
It looks pretty solid, I would test it but I found another deck I like better.
the hivestones are not really needed..obviously there in so that u can keep drawing off whitemane lion but once you have wildpair out you should be drawing more than enough off of dormant sliver.. id used this decklist as a starting point and swapped out the hivestones for mystic snakes and having that counterspell to stop damnation and other game chaging effects to this deck has been extremely valuable
the hivestones are not really needed..obviously there in so that u can keep drawing off whitemane lion but once you have wildpair out you should be drawing more than enough off of dormant sliver.. id used this decklist as a starting point and swapped out the hivestones for mystic snakes and having that counterspell to stop damnation and other game chaging effects to this deck has been extremely valuable
Have you made other changes in your deck? Or only 3sb hivestones for 3sb countersnakes? Regards
Is the sliver deck able to combo out in one turn, or does it takes multiples? It looks like it doesn't have the mana to go all out in one turn, the frenetic sliver looks like it's really good, as it can avoid a mass removal effect. I haev yet to test the deck, I just found it. The hivestones looked unnecesary, but i don't think snakes is the answer, I'll do some testing.
ok so new additions are +3 mystic snakes +2 might sliver +1 teferi's moat +` whitemane lion
Im aware that if u play an early might sliver then it throws off your searching with wild pair. basic strategy is to not search or play might sliver until the turn your gonna win or at the end of opponents turn via lion. i added an extra lion because in testing if i couldnt find wild pair i used lions to sumtimes rescue creatures or apply some beats. or for example rescue a mystic snake to re-play it and a whitemane lion on the board sorta defeats the purpose of using it with wild pair. so basically i always wanted at least 1 in my hand.
As for teferi's moat this card is very questionable but if drawn early it can hold off some beats till you find wild pair and most likely win. i really couldnt think of anything to put in but if a new suggestion turns up id most likely start with taking out moat.
Is the sliver deck able to combo out in one turn, or does it takes multiples? It looks like it doesn't have the mana to go all out in one turn,
It doesn't. Focusing around Wild Pair as a combo engine is a bad way to build the deck, as it gives you a crutch you don't need.
Instead, think of it as a card that nets you large amounts of resource advantages. Think of it like Harmonize.
the hivestones are not really needed..obviously there in so that u can keep drawing off whitemane lion but once you have wildpair out you should be drawing more than enough off of dormant sliver.. id used this decklist as a starting point and swapped out the hivestones for mystic snakes and having that counterspell to stop damnation and other game chaging effects to this deck has been extremely valuable
Actually the first thing that popped in my mind for the stones to be there was so that you could go "Opponent upkeep, flash in lion, bounce trigger on stack, tap lion to tap a permanent (since you have the opposition and haste slivers), resolve both, return lion to hand, rinse repeat"
EDIT: I also like the whole wall of roots reads "0/5 defender :symtap::deal 2 damage to creature or player and three to self"
Some of you may have been in shock since we invaded Canada and Mexico, but fear not, it was for a good cause. Now that we conrol North America, we produce an extra 5 armies a turn.^_^
I've personally found cutting to 1 copy of telekenetic, and adding 3 riftwings makes a huge diffrence. Can help a lot if you don't have the sliver engine going, and combos fantasticly with the lion.
Trying to find a few spaces for Snapback also, but the deck is kinda tight as is.
Actually the first thing that popped in my mind for the stones to be there was so that you could go "Opponent upkeep, flash in lion, bounce trigger on stack, tap lion to tap a permanent (since you have the opposition and haste slivers), resolve both, return lion to hand, rinse repeat"
EDIT: I also like the whole wall of roots reads "0/5 defender :symtap::deal 2 damage to creature or player and three to self"
as far as i could tell this decklist is very tight if your going the sliver route. in my opinion mystic snake is a MUST. its just got me out of to many hard situations to not include it. hivestones instantly struck me as a card that just wasnt really needed ecspecially if you drew more than one. i dont think i ever drew a mystic snake and wished it was a hivestone. so sure i dont have a wall that can do some dmg but i have an answer to board sweepers and other effects that can ruin my day playing this deck.
I've personally found cutting to 1 copy of telekenetic, and adding 3 riftwings makes a huge diffrence. Can help a lot if you don't have the sliver engine going, and combos fantasticly with the lion...
Seconded, I've been dropping Dormant Sliver down to 2-3 and uping the Riftwings up to 3-4. I'm running a Single Saffi MD too, with some great results.
A colleague of mine has a splash of Red for Avalanche riders and Blood Knight, but his is really less of a sliver deck and more of a Blink Riders Mark Deux build IMO.
with this version i opted to go with land destruction. With 4 gemhide slivers 4 wall of roots and 3 search for tomorrow you should always have 4 mana on your 3rd turn to either harmonize play a rider or acid moss.
card options thus far
primal foremages - allows you to play whitemane lion and fetch bogardan hellkite as well as pumps your riders and shocker
cloudchaser kestrel - good target against the mirror or random enchants that pop up
barbed shocker - i know this seems sort of iffy but so far its had decent results vs control decks. people havent really held lands in there hands because with the rides and acid moss they have a lot less mana. this card could easily be changed.
whitemane lion- heart of the deck besides wild pair
gemhide sliver- mana accel
wall of roots- mana accel and saves you vs early rushes
avalance riders - easily fetched and gives you an early advantage
bogardan hellkite - main win condition
Mwonvuli acid-moss - early advantage and mana accel
wild pair - who needs this card
harmonize - obviously
search for tomorrow - mana accel and fixing
dead/gone- its a good card.
I've noticed something today. The card reads "creature with the same TOTAL power and toughness into play". Under that wording, wouldn't a Wall of Roots be able to bring in a Stonecloaker into play? (0/5 = 5, and 3/2 = 5) That kind of opens up the possibilities with this deck a lot.
Yeah, after reading the Gatherer rulings on it....
2/1/2007 If you play a 2/2 Grizzly Bears, for example, you may then search for any creature with total power and toughness 4. It can be 0/4, 1/3, 2/2, or 3/1.
This is the card I beleive will break the format.
Ok, I've had time to put together a build of this, and I'm open for opinions. Note, i've move away from the sliver theme in my attempts to make it competitive
Some nice tricks to remember, Play Wall of Roots, Add counter, pull 2/2 creature instead of 0/5 or 3/2.
I've tested a few times, I'm not sure about the mana base, and there's some worry about more solid threats vs counter decks. Please feel free to post opinions and such.
I've noticed something today. The card reads "creature with the same TOTAL power and toughness into play". Under that wording, wouldn't a Wall of Roots be able to bring in a Stonecloaker into play? (0/5 = 5, and 3/2 = 5) That kind of opens up the possibilities with this deck a lot.
Yeah, after reading the Gatherer rulings on it....
2/1/2007 If you play a 2/2 Grizzly Bears, for example, you may then search for any creature with total power and toughness 4. It can be 0/4, 1/3, 2/2, or 3/1.
This is the card I beleive will break the format.
It's actually better than that. When it comes into play you can respond to the Wild Pair trigger by adding a mana to your mana pool with it. When the trigger resolves, Wall is a 0/4, so you can fetch Whitemane and Riftwing too...
The sliver theme is competative, it placed fourth out of a 100+ man tournament. I think the sliver theme is what makes the deck so devastating.
Totally agree. the sliver theme is very very competitive. It is however easily hosed. i was playing against a black discard deck and they happened to run plague sliver and i ended up losing that game since i really coudnt play the tapping game against him. got me thinkin that if any black deck started to sb plague sliver we're in trouble. that when i decided to make a wild pair deck w/o slivers and its been doin pretty well.
I was just wondering if anyone have came up with a descent Wild Pair using Time Spiral, Time Shifted and Planar Chaos cards? It's just seems like a nice card to build a deck around. Regards
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I suppose the initial challange is to survive and get WP out reliably about turn 5/6.
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All slivers have even P/T totals, and sinew/might sliver allow you to work your way up in toughness, kind of like a rebel chain.
It utilizes Wild Pair as more of a really synergystic card than a combo win condition. Its built as kind of an Aggro w/ Toolbox.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog
Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
Thank you Feste
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
It's give you more bord control. Don't think Wild Pair is optimal in an agro-build.
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Because Scryb Ranger pulls Draining Whelk out of the deck.
Wild Pair is, apparently, somewhat of a force in the metagame. It provides card advantage, which is hard to do in this pool (although green's already got the awesome Harmonize).
1 pendelhaven
1 calciform pools
1 saltcrusted steppe
4 terramorphic expanse
7 forest
4 island
4 plains
3 whitemane lion
4 telekinetic sliver
4 dormant sliver
4 gemhide sliver
1 reflex sliver
1 psionic sliver
2 necrotic sliver
1 frenetic sliver
4 harmonize
3 search for tomorrow
4 wild pair
It looks pretty solid, I would test it but I found another deck I like better.
That... is how you build a deck around Wild Pair.
That's a great idea. Whitemane Lion fetches Whitemane Lion, both bounce, replay both, get TK slivers, continue the awesomeness.
The only concern is that you have to land a Wild Pair to make it *really* click, although I guess it will normally play out like a kind of Opposition deck.
the hivestones are not really needed..obviously there in so that u can keep drawing off whitemane lion but once you have wildpair out you should be drawing more than enough off of dormant sliver.. id used this decklist as a starting point and swapped out the hivestones for mystic snakes and having that counterspell to stop damnation and other game chaging effects to this deck has been extremely valuable
Have you made other changes in your deck? Or only 3sb hivestones for 3sb countersnakes? Regards
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i have actually. heres my current decklist..
4 whitemane lion
4 wall of roots
4 telekinetik sliver
1 necrotic sliver
1 frentic sliver
1 reflex sliver
1 psionic sliver
3 dormant sliver
2 might sliver
3 mystic snake
3 search for tomorrow
3 harmonize
1 teferi's moat
ok so new additions are +3 mystic snakes +2 might sliver +1 teferi's moat +` whitemane lion
Im aware that if u play an early might sliver then it throws off your searching with wild pair. basic strategy is to not search or play might sliver until the turn your gonna win or at the end of opponents turn via lion. i added an extra lion because in testing if i couldnt find wild pair i used lions to sumtimes rescue creatures or apply some beats. or for example rescue a mystic snake to re-play it and a whitemane lion on the board sorta defeats the purpose of using it with wild pair. so basically i always wanted at least 1 in my hand.
As for teferi's moat this card is very questionable but if drawn early it can hold off some beats till you find wild pair and most likely win. i really couldnt think of anything to put in but if a new suggestion turns up id most likely start with taking out moat.
It doesn't. Focusing around Wild Pair as a combo engine is a bad way to build the deck, as it gives you a crutch you don't need.
Instead, think of it as a card that nets you large amounts of resource advantages. Think of it like Harmonize.
Actually the first thing that popped in my mind for the stones to be there was so that you could go "Opponent upkeep, flash in lion, bounce trigger on stack, tap lion to tap a permanent (since you have the opposition and haste slivers), resolve both, return lion to hand, rinse repeat"
EDIT: I also like the whole wall of roots reads "0/5 defender :symtap::deal 2 damage to creature or player and three to self"
Trying to find a few spaces for Snapback also, but the deck is kinda tight as is.
Standard: Project R
as far as i could tell this decklist is very tight if your going the sliver route. in my opinion mystic snake is a MUST. its just got me out of to many hard situations to not include it. hivestones instantly struck me as a card that just wasnt really needed ecspecially if you drew more than one. i dont think i ever drew a mystic snake and wished it was a hivestone. so sure i dont have a wall that can do some dmg but i have an answer to board sweepers and other effects that can ruin my day playing this deck.
Seconded, I've been dropping Dormant Sliver down to 2-3 and uping the Riftwings up to 3-4. I'm running a Single Saffi MD too, with some great results.
A colleague of mine has a splash of Red for Avalanche riders and Blood Knight, but his is really less of a sliver deck and more of a Blink Riders Mark Deux build IMO.
9 forest
1 salcrusted steppe
4 terramorphic expanse
3 mountain
2 plains
1 urza's factory
1 fungal reaches
1 cloudchaser kestrel
1 barbed shocker
3 whitemane lion
4 gemhide sliver
4 wall of roots
4 avalance riders
3 bogardan hellkite
4 wild pair
3 harmonize
3 search for tomorrow
3 dead/gone
with this version i opted to go with land destruction. With 4 gemhide slivers 4 wall of roots and 3 search for tomorrow you should always have 4 mana on your 3rd turn to either harmonize play a rider or acid moss.
card options thus far
primal foremages - allows you to play whitemane lion and fetch bogardan hellkite as well as pumps your riders and shocker
cloudchaser kestrel - good target against the mirror or random enchants that pop up
barbed shocker - i know this seems sort of iffy but so far its had decent results vs control decks. people havent really held lands in there hands because with the rides and acid moss they have a lot less mana. this card could easily be changed.
whitemane lion- heart of the deck besides wild pair
gemhide sliver- mana accel
wall of roots- mana accel and saves you vs early rushes
avalance riders - easily fetched and gives you an early advantage
bogardan hellkite - main win condition
Mwonvuli acid-moss - early advantage and mana accel
wild pair - who needs this card
harmonize - obviously
search for tomorrow - mana accel and fixing
dead/gone- its a good card.
Yeah, after reading the Gatherer rulings on it....
2/1/2007 If you play a 2/2 Grizzly Bears, for example, you may then search for any creature with total power and toughness 4. It can be 0/4, 1/3, 2/2, or 3/1.
This is the card I beleive will break the format.
Ok, I've had time to put together a build of this, and I'm open for opinions. Note, i've move away from the sliver theme in my attempts to make it competitive
4 Plains
4 Island
4 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Pendelhaven
1 Saltcrusted Steppe
1 Calciform Pools
4 Terramorphic Expanse
//Creatures
4 Wall of Roots
4 Whitemane Lion
4 Mystic Snake
3 Riftwing Cloudskate
2 Draining Whelk
3 Scryb Ranger
3 Stonecloaker
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Wild Pair
3 Harmonize
3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 Draining Whelk
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Avoid Fate
4 Cancel
4 Krosan Grip
Some nice tricks to remember, Play Wall of Roots, Add counter, pull 2/2 creature instead of 0/5 or 3/2.
I've tested a few times, I'm not sure about the mana base, and there's some worry about more solid threats vs counter decks. Please feel free to post opinions and such.
Standard: Project R
It's actually better than that. When it comes into play you can respond to the Wild Pair trigger by adding a mana to your mana pool with it. When the trigger resolves, Wall is a 0/4, so you can fetch Whitemane and Riftwing too...
Totally agree. the sliver theme is very very competitive. It is however easily hosed. i was playing against a black discard deck and they happened to run plague sliver and i ended up losing that game since i really coudnt play the tapping game against him. got me thinkin that if any black deck started to sb plague sliver we're in trouble. that when i decided to make a wild pair deck w/o slivers and its been doin pretty well.
1 Triskelavus
4 Bogardan Hellkite
2 Spectral Force
4 Spike Feeder
4 Timbermare
4 Wall Of Roots
3 Akroma, Angel Of Fury
1 Akroma, Angel Of Wrath
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Radha, Heir To Keld
4 Hunting Wilds
4 Wild Pair
1 Prismatic Lens
Lands:
10 Forest
9 Mountain
4 Fungal Reaches
1 Blood Knight
1 Shivan Wumpus
4 Sulfur Elemental
3 Pandemonium
2 Seal Of Primordium
1 Akroma, Angel Of Fury
1 Jedit Ojanen Of Efrava
2 Rough / Tumble
Another deck.
1 Mindlash Sliver
4 Wall of Roots
4 Darkheart Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
1 Riftwing Cloudskate
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Basal Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
4 Dormant Sliver
1 Reflex Sliver
4 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Might Sliver
1 Triskelavus
4 Evolution Charm
4 Wild Pair
Lands:
7 Forest
6 Island
5 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Plains
1 Pendelhaven
1 Harmonic Sliver
3 Spell Burst
4 Serrated Arrows
2 Haunting Hymn
3 Might Sliver
2 Tromp the Domains
One more for the road.
4 Mystic Snake
4 Riftwing Cloudskate
4 Wall Of Roots
2 Whitemane Lion
4 Mangara Of Corondor
1 Teferi, Mage Of Zhalfir
4 Search For Tomorrow
1 Careful Consideration
3 Momentary Blink
3 Mystical Teachings
4 Wild Pair
4 Prismatic Lens
7 Forest
4 Island
3 Plains
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Terramorphic Expanse