I think you need 4 Willbenders in that matchup, though.
The Towel-mikey and my metagame was as follows at the last Neutral Ground PTQ:
35% Pickles players
15% UG Goyf players
10% GW Goyf Players
10% Teachings players
10% Blink Variant players
19%: Random ****
~2%-GWR Goyf (namely, Ravitz and Asher Hecht)
I expect a LARGE surge in GWR goyf because it went 2-2 in Top 4'ing and got a winner winner. But since the paper metagame moves slower than the online one, I would expect the majority of pickles players to continue playing that deck, people jumping onto that deck from teachings, gw goyf, gu goyf, and the randomness. and some people who usually just play the best deck will play that. So maybe about an increase to ~20% to GWR Goyf. So I think you should have in the side perhaps...i don't know, nix the arrows, have 2 benders, and 2 aeon chroniclers...maybe also change the MD Pact to a Spell Burst, but that I am definitely not so sure about.
Hm, the latter is conceded, but maybe Spell Burst is better than Pact for beating the mirror.
Willbender does redirect their Fiery Justice...right to the Predator. SBE's are checked once it resolves, and it dies before its ability can trigger (so long as its p/t is less than 5/5). Or you can simply burn them and kill/bounce their predator, I really don't care.
I am having a tough time realizing how crucial Arrows are in the mirror. Unless me or my partners are playing the deck incorrectly, it feels that resolving a Teferi is more threatening to take out Visions, Cloudskates, and counters. The current advantage of arrows seem to be making morphs (Shapeshifter/Willbender) and Cloudskates smaller in the mirror. I definitely will acknowledge it's necessary against Finkel and Ranger, but at that point, it seems a better card suited to the SB.
I've been enjoying a Pact MB for another target for Tolaria, but yes, it's not too useful in the mirror.
I am having a tough time realizing how crucial Arrows are in the mirror. Unless me or my partners are playing the deck incorrectly, it feels that resolving a Teferi is more threatening to take out Visions, Cloudskates, and counters. The current advantage of arrows seem to be making morphs (Shapeshifter/Willbender) and Cloudskates smaller in the mirror. I definitely will acknowledge it's necessary against Finkel and Ranger, but at that point, it seems a better card suited to the SB.
I've been enjoying a Pact MB for another target for Tolaria, but yes, it's not too useful in the mirror.
- Natsume
If you expect to see a ton of mirror matches, I reccomend just playing a 3rd Arrows MD instead of Pact.
The mirror is about tempo. The Arrows make all of their men inferior. See, You don't have to give something like a Cloudskate -2,-2. Just give it a -1,-1, and it is essentially dead. Don't forget that you can Venser or Cloudskate your Arrows back to your hand for more mayhem.
Their only choice becomes to try and lock you (or whoever gets arrow -screwed). They cannot attack. It's simply immpossible.
Well, you are right about Justice. What to do there? It's basically like GW Goyf except for a two-card combo that makes it about 20/80 in their favor game one.
You don't think Willbenders are otherwise necessary against aggro?
And do you bring in all your Chroniclers in the mirror?
Willbender does redirect their Fiery Justice...right to the Predator. SBE's are checked once it resolves, and it dies before its ability can trigger (so long as its p/t is less than 5/5). Or you can simply burn them and kill/bounce their predator, I really don't care.
Willbender only directs spells with a single target. Fiery Justice should always have multiple targets because you have to target twice.
I was there too, I live in Jersey, yay me. If you have not noticed, GWR beats almost everything. Game one for us is 20/80...I think the deck's going to be pretty popular, because of two people who played it, BOTH got top 4. pretty freakin good. We can't stop fiery justice, and they have the ability to bounce their guys with Stonecloaker. And no Damnation? No dice, you lose, period. You can't dig for 'em either because you have to side out Ancestrals.
I scrubbed out, PLAYING PICKLES ALL THREE ROUNDS.
Round 1 My opponent won game one via countering my Teferi and getting his own.
Game 2 was going okay when I accidentally removed an extra counter from Ancestral Vision when I was playing with my dice. He called me on it and I got a caution, and it shook me up. But I ended up winning that game, but they called time as we shuffled for game 3.
0-0-1
Round 2 I played Pickles again, lost in two games. My opponent simply had more skill.
Round 3 I won game 1 (UG Shifter) by keeping my opponent off lands (he missed his third drop for a while) I cleared his lands with Riftwings and he never recovered.
Game 2 He won...don't remember.
Game 3 was at a stalemate when turns started, and we drew. I ended up scooping for him since I had to win out to stay in and didn't really feel like staying since my friends, who scrubbed, were leaving. So I technically went 0-1-2.
Meh.
As for the deck...
The Trisk/Academy Ruins idea was bad. Didn't draw it once, sided it out all matches.
Arrows were okay main, but more would be more effective.
Aeon Chronicler is not that hot.
Pact was good, I would add another, and consider SB Slaughter Pacts with the Damnation idea.
I would have liked the third Venser.
Thank god this format is over. It has practically ruined my summer magic-wise.
I would like to report from the SFGP. I went 3-3-0, then dropped seeing as I have no chance to make it to Day 2 and the computer went down, so no way I would survive playing til midnight.
All three losses were to all three Goyf deck variants (GW, GWr, GWu), while my wins were against all other aggro decks. I did play the Damnation SB, and while it did help me against all the other aggro, it did not come through too great for me. I even had 2 Pongify instead of Arrows MD, but never saw them to test them.
Other notes:
- Triske was awesome, but never got a chance to play with Ruins.
- Pact was okay, as were Aeon Chroniclers.
- To everyone on the thread: You were right, I was wrong, Arrows rock in the mirror.
- I hate gofy, I hate gofy, I hate gofy. Oh, and it's pretty little Avenger, too.
There's another PTQ tomorrow, but with 600+ people from the GP out, I folding in for the season. Standard ho!
- Natsume
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Trike does seem great though, especially with Shapeshifter you can get twice the tokens every turn.
I might make the Arrows one Pact of Negation and one Spell Burst and put more in the board.
Serrated is also good against slivers, btw.
Why only 2 willbenders overall? They are pretty good against Fiery Justice (they can turn one against a Predator)
I think the biggest need is to improve the GRW matchup, and how does this deck do so?
I think you need 4 Willbenders in that matchup, though.
The Towel-mikey and my metagame was as follows at the last Neutral Ground PTQ:
35% Pickles players
15% UG Goyf players
10% GW Goyf Players
10% Teachings players
10% Blink Variant players
19%: Random ****
~2%-GWR Goyf (namely, Ravitz and Asher Hecht)
I expect a LARGE surge in GWR goyf because it went 2-2 in Top 4'ing and got a winner winner. But since the paper metagame moves slower than the online one, I would expect the majority of pickles players to continue playing that deck, people jumping onto that deck from teachings, gw goyf, gu goyf, and the randomness. and some people who usually just play the best deck will play that. So maybe about an increase to ~20% to GWR Goyf. So I think you should have in the side perhaps...i don't know, nix the arrows, have 2 benders, and 2 aeon chroniclers...maybe also change the MD Pact to a Spell Burst, but that I am definitely not so sure about.
Also: Serrated Arrows absolutely decide the mono blue mirror. If you draw more, you win.
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Willbender does redirect their Fiery Justice...right to the Predator. SBE's are checked once it resolves, and it dies before its ability can trigger (so long as its p/t is less than 5/5). Or you can simply burn them and kill/bounce their predator, I really don't care.
and how do you sideboard with the current one?
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I've been enjoying a Pact MB for another target for Tolaria, but yes, it's not too useful in the mirror.
- Natsume
If you expect to see a ton of mirror matches, I reccomend just playing a 3rd Arrows MD instead of Pact.
The mirror is about tempo. The Arrows make all of their men inferior. See, You don't have to give something like a Cloudskate -2,-2. Just give it a -1,-1, and it is essentially dead. Don't forget that you can Venser or Cloudskate your Arrows back to your hand for more mayhem.
Their only choice becomes to try and lock you (or whoever gets arrow -screwed). They cannot attack. It's simply immpossible.
http://webapp.wizards.com/ratings.aspx?action=search_member&personid=2119616&brandid=1
Playing Rune Snags post-Lorwyn is like voting Democrat
:jam:Banned from Forums
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ICBM's Forums
Team Unknown Stars'
Magic.TCG.Player
Also responsible for the collapse of Top8Magic's and ICBM's "Add Comment" section.
You don't think Willbenders are otherwise necessary against aggro?
And do you bring in all your Chroniclers in the mirror?
Willbender only directs spells with a single target. Fiery Justice should always have multiple targets because you have to target twice.
I would love that third Venser somewhere.
I scrubbed out, PLAYING PICKLES ALL THREE ROUNDS.
Round 1 My opponent won game one via countering my Teferi and getting his own.
Game 2 was going okay when I accidentally removed an extra counter from Ancestral Vision when I was playing with my dice. He called me on it and I got a caution, and it shook me up. But I ended up winning that game, but they called time as we shuffled for game 3.
0-0-1
Round 2 I played Pickles again, lost in two games. My opponent simply had more skill.
Round 3 I won game 1 (UG Shifter) by keeping my opponent off lands (he missed his third drop for a while) I cleared his lands with Riftwings and he never recovered.
Game 2 He won...don't remember.
Game 3 was at a stalemate when turns started, and we drew. I ended up scooping for him since I had to win out to stay in and didn't really feel like staying since my friends, who scrubbed, were leaving. So I technically went 0-1-2.
Meh.
As for the deck...
The Trisk/Academy Ruins idea was bad. Didn't draw it once, sided it out all matches.
Arrows were okay main, but more would be more effective.
Aeon Chronicler is not that hot.
Pact was good, I would add another, and consider SB Slaughter Pacts with the Damnation idea.
I would have liked the third Venser.
Thank god this format is over. It has practically ruined my summer magic-wise.
Back to Standard yaaaaaaaaaay!
All three losses were to all three Goyf deck variants (GW, GWr, GWu), while my wins were against all other aggro decks. I did play the Damnation SB, and while it did help me against all the other aggro, it did not come through too great for me. I even had 2 Pongify instead of Arrows MD, but never saw them to test them.
Other notes:
- Triske was awesome, but never got a chance to play with Ruins.
- Pact was okay, as were Aeon Chroniclers.
- To everyone on the thread: You were right, I was wrong, Arrows rock in the mirror.
- I hate gofy, I hate gofy, I hate gofy. Oh, and it's pretty little Avenger, too.
There's another PTQ tomorrow, but with 600+ people from the GP out, I folding in for the season. Standard ho!
- Natsume