Alright, there was no thread for this (unless I managed to miss it) and that needed to change.
I played G/W aggro at the PTQ at Pastimes Games on Saturday the 23rd - finishing 5-2 after losing off a mulligan to 4 in the mirror and a U/W control deck (the nightmare matchup for this deck)...
...More importantly to everyone here though is the fact that it dominated GP Montreal on the same day.
Making it UGW would bring it pretty close to what is type 2 Gro right now, and personally, I think it's not good to go that path, since it would make the deck less aggro, or unfocused.
Thrill of the Hunt is a good blocking trick, but does one really want that in an aggro deck such as this? That is why I splash for Brute Force (in addition to Fiery Justice). This somewhat contradicts my running of 5pacifisms, even though one is tech with Tarmogoyf.
Trainswalker09: I'd really suggest adding two more Edge of Autumn to your list. They synergy with Flagstones of Trokair is just too great not to run four of each. In fact, it seemed to be the most played combo at the GP.
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Trainswalker the GWr deck needs 4 Fiery Justice. That's like, the incentive for running it. Also it's a very very different deck from the brazillian build and deserves it's own thread.
This is clearly the deck to beat going in the ptq season. What decks beat it? I think Wild Pair Slivers should, and Cheon's deck has a good match-up.
The pros are all catching on to this deck. The price of 'goyf has skyrocketted recently from a junk rare to $50 for a playset. Ill attest to the strength of this deck it is extremely resilient and I would go so far as to say it could do very well in standard as well and might be the next psychatog or jitte.
Theres not a lot of effective answers to this deck ***/Damnation only makes the situation worse since the goyf player will be coming back with a bigger goyf and mystic enforcer will likely have threshold
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From MaRo
Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
I would say that of all the splashes i would rather keep the blue simply for Psi blast(greatest burn spell ever lol) and delay being good additions to this deck screwing up the turn 4 damnation. Also my best tool in the mirror has been isolations and mire boa(also great in the Bx matchup) chump block forever.
I've played the GWu version and the GP winning version, the GWu version is much clunkier, I prefer the straight GW. Splash if you want, but I think it just slows the deck down.
Serrated arrows is house against the mirror matchup. x/1 matchup of goyfs are won in your favor when you give his -1-1. Its big against morph.dec as well.
I would definitely run the stock list on Saturday at a PTQ, although I expect a number of people to want to change up the sideboard.
Quick questions:
1. @Olly06 -- Why would you take Temporal Isolation out of the main deck for Chromatic Star? Isolation is the best removal card in block (outside of a maxed out Tendrils). Plus, Tarmogoyf is automatically a 2/3 anyway from Flagstones + Edge of Autumn.
2. What are GW Goyf's bad matchups? I noticed that Shifter is interesting due to all of the bounce effects (Riftwing Cloudskate, Take Possession, Snapback, and Venser all gain serious card advantage over WG), and Cheon really probably should have won the final against Zampere, but aside from that, what does this deck lose to?
3. Mirror breakers = Serrated Arrows (my Goyf is bigger than your Goyf!), and enchantment hate for Griffin Guide and Temporal Isolation (i.e. -- Cloudchaser Kestrel or my fav -- Seal of Primordium -- handles both Serrated Arrows AND Temporal Isolation/Take Possession).
4. Sideboard changes -- anyone interested in Scragnoth vs. tech'd out U/x decks or Spike Feeder? Sunlance is awesome tech vs. almost everything weenie.
5. I actually think that Spike Feeder would be seriously good against WG in De Rosa and Lundquists UG Aggro deck, so maybe tech against that too. Main deck Take Possession is also going to see a lot more play if GW Goyf is going to be dominant. Expect Korlash to splash a removal spell that gets around Mystic Enforcer (or better yet, takes it with Take Possession. This is why I think that Seal of Primordium is ultimately going to replace Cloudchaser Kestrel in my board).
I'm missing the point as to why there is 1 x Pendlehaven when none of the creatures in the main deck are 1/1 and only 4 if you put 4 x Whirling Dervish in your side board?
I'm playing the RGW version for Fiery Justice/Kavu Predator and boom/bust to hate out all the pact carriers. I won 2 games last night from playing bust after my goyf or predator had been hit with Slaughter Pact.
4. Sideboard changes -- anyone interested in Scragnoth vs. tech'd out U/x decks or Spike Feeder? Sunlance is awesome tech vs. almost everything weenie.
Personally, if I were going to go with a control hoser, I'd probably choose Quagnoth over Scragnoth. For one more mana, he's a little bigger, can't be targeted by any spells (Useful against opposing Tendrils of Corruption), and can be returned if its discarded due to Stupor/Haunting Hymn/etc.
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@sys41o:
Pendelhaven is there mainly to blow up other Pendelhavens, which is even played in RDW.
@Falkor:
1. o7irg gave a perfect example. It is good, but not absolute removal. I've found it to be a possible card to replace after testing the GP winning deck. Does anyone think Bound in Silence would make a good substitute? Or should we stick with Chromatic Star for a one-drop fixer?
2. Shifter is a possibility, but I'm guessing the usual Fortune Thief.
@sys41o:
Pendelhaven is there mainly to blow up other Pendelhavens, which is even played in RDW.
@Falkor:
1. o7irg gave a perfect example. It is good, but not absolute removal. I've found it to be a possible card to replace after testing the GP winning deck. Does anyone think Bound in Silence would make a good substitute? Or should we stick with Chromatic Star for a one-drop fixer?
2. Shifter is a possibility, but I'm guessing the usual Fortune Thief.
Red arguably gives you more than white does. Dead & Gone is so huge in this format, in this build I can't imagine running any less than 4. I boaded them into my RG deck for every post-board game in Montreal. It burns morphs before they can flip, kills Elephants and bounces big scary fatties like Force or Gargadon.
Kudos to hosscat for running Boom & Bust... you have 7 targets in Expanse and Flagstones to make it an undercosted Stone Rain, and buys you at least an extra turn. This along with the Pacts, as you mentioned.
And Fiery Justice is much more than one-half of a combo... combined with Dead & Gone it helps clear the way for your heavy hitters.
Also Riftsweeper is a must MD. Gargadon and that annoying Riftwing Cloudskate are two of the biggest problems, and it deals with both for 2 mana. Also hoses random SfT's, Nihiliths and Ancestral Visions.
2things
i've been thinking of using serrated arrows instead of isolation
A) they cant do the "sac to stop the prevent damage
B)its an artifact and you've got griffin guide already
C) kills weenies
also i want to add spectral force and scryb ranger
seems real good
EDIT quick question id i get Stupor and i discard at random Quagnoth am i able to discard it again or would stupor ahve to resolve completely before Quagnoth ability resolves
1. Temporal Isolation is the best removal card in block vs. anything without Greater Gargadon suspended. In every other matchup (particularly the mirror), the card is amazing. I expect a lot of G/x Aggro decks, and the easiest way to lock them out of combat is Isolation. I also like Bound in Silence, but the instant speed of Temporal Isolation allows me to main deck the Isolation over Bound in Silence, and bring in Bound in Silence out of the board.
2. I like Scragnoth since I am more concerned about UG and MonoU than Bu Korlash builds out of my board. I have Whirling Dervish for the Bu matchups, but the amount of bounce in UG and MonoU is a huge pain for the tempo of this deck, in particular cards like Venser, Snapback, Riftwing Cloudskate, et al. Plus, it blocks Teferi, Brine Elemental, and Vesuvan Shapeshifter all day long. That's good. Don't get me wrong, I like Quagnoth too, and I think it is decidedly underplayed at the moment, but I would rather play the Dervishes in that matchup.
3. Serrated Arrows is great, but the mirror trump (aside from Isolation) is Thrill of the Hunt, that card is amazing in the mirror, and I will probably board extra Thrills over the Serrated Arrows. Does anyone else think this is the right call?
I'm missing the point as to why there is 1 x Pendlehaven when none of the creatures in the main deck are 1/1 and only 4 if you put 4 x Whirling Dervish in your side board?
It's secret tech if you plan on blocking a Flanker with a Riftsweeper or a Saffi, they'll become a 1/1 and then a 2/3, often taking the Flanker out.
has anyone else felt utterly underwhelmed by this deck? I've been testing both the straight g/w versions and the g/w/r versions with justice but just can't seem to beat teachings control. teachings has an overwhelming advantage game 1 if they maindeck venser and/or more than 1 slaughter pact and its really hard to win two games in a row post board even with the advantage given by dervish and rebuff the wicked.
I just played against it, and you're right, it is a bit underwhelming. Teferi's Moat pretty much screwed me up until I resolved a Mystic Enforcer or a Griffen Guide, and those tended to be countered anyways.
Basically... force past it. After a while, they kinda ran out of things to do, and somewhat lacked win conditions against me.
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I played G/W aggro at the PTQ at Pastimes Games on Saturday the 23rd - finishing 5-2 after losing off a mulligan to 4 in the mirror and a U/W control deck (the nightmare matchup for this deck)...
...More importantly to everyone here though is the fact that it dominated GP Montreal on the same day.
Here's a link to the top 8 decks (muliple G/W aggro)
As of right now G/W aggro is clearly the defining deck in the format, let's get some discussion going...
@Feuerdrache: Sticky + [Official] would be great, please (if it's okay with you of course).
Thanks to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for resizing a painting by Stanley Donwood
I don't see much that I would change from the winning deck.
I would like to see a U splash version though that would make it similar to Legacy Threshold.
You can run Mana Tithe and Delay. Just a thought.
Here's my list-an RGW Variant with Kavu Predator.
1 Mountain
2 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Forest
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Plains
2 Llanowar Reborn
Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kavu Predator
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mystic Enforcer
3 Chromatic Star
Enchantments
3 Griffin Guide
2 Temporal Isolation
Tribal Enchantments
2 Bound in Silence
Sorceries
2 Edge of Autumn
3 Call of the Herd
2 Fiery Justice
Instants
3 Brute Force
3 Krosan Grip
3 Fortune Thief
3 Pull from Eternity
3 Whirling Dervish
3 Serrated Arrows
I would like to run Mana Tithe, but it's a bit too reactive a strategy for this deck.
Opinions?
Thrill of the Hunt is a good blocking trick, but does one really want that in an aggro deck such as this? That is why I splash for Brute Force (in addition to Fiery Justice). This somewhat contradicts my running of 5 pacifisms, even though one is tech with Tarmogoyf.
I was already thinking of taking out the Chromatic Stars...owing to the fact that I learned that Tarmogoyf counts BOTH graveyards...:B:
This is clearly the deck to beat going in the ptq season. What decks beat it? I think Wild Pair Slivers should, and Cheon's deck has a good match-up.
Theres not a lot of effective answers to this deck ***/Damnation only makes the situation worse since the goyf player will be coming back with a bigger goyf and mystic enforcer will likely have threshold
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
I find useful Slaughter Pact, Smallpox, Stupor and Augur of Skulls
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
Quick questions:
1. @Olly06 -- Why would you take Temporal Isolation out of the main deck for Chromatic Star? Isolation is the best removal card in block (outside of a maxed out Tendrils). Plus, Tarmogoyf is automatically a 2/3 anyway from Flagstones + Edge of Autumn.
2. What are GW Goyf's bad matchups? I noticed that Shifter is interesting due to all of the bounce effects (Riftwing Cloudskate, Take Possession, Snapback, and Venser all gain serious card advantage over WG), and Cheon really probably should have won the final against Zampere, but aside from that, what does this deck lose to?
3. Mirror breakers = Serrated Arrows (my Goyf is bigger than your Goyf!), and enchantment hate for Griffin Guide and Temporal Isolation (i.e. -- Cloudchaser Kestrel or my fav -- Seal of Primordium -- handles both Serrated Arrows AND Temporal Isolation/Take Possession).
4. Sideboard changes -- anyone interested in Scragnoth vs. tech'd out U/x decks or Spike Feeder? Sunlance is awesome tech vs. almost everything weenie.
5. I actually think that Spike Feeder would be seriously good against WG in De Rosa and Lundquists UG Aggro deck, so maybe tech against that too. Main deck Take Possession is also going to see a lot more play if GW Goyf is going to be dominant. Expect Korlash to splash a removal spell that gets around Mystic Enforcer (or better yet, takes it with Take Possession. This is why I think that Seal of Primordium is ultimately going to replace Cloudchaser Kestrel in my board).
Here's my current list:
6 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Grove of the Burnmillows
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Mountain
3 Plains
Creatures: 15
4 Mystic Enforcer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kavu Predator
3 Saffi Eriksdotter
3 Temporal Isolation
2 Griffin Guide
4 Dead/Gone
3 Boom/Bust
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Fiery Justice
3 Riftsweeper
4 Whirling Dervish
4 Sunlance
3 Avoid Fate
1 Boom/Bust
Hm...good point that's getting changed, rebuff is clearly better.
Personally, if I were going to go with a control hoser, I'd probably choose Quagnoth over Scragnoth. For one more mana, he's a little bigger, can't be targeted by any spells (Useful against opposing Tendrils of Corruption), and can be returned if its discarded due to Stupor/Haunting Hymn/etc.
Pendelhaven is there mainly to blow up other Pendelhavens, which is even played in RDW.
@Falkor:
1. o7irg gave a perfect example. It is good, but not absolute removal. I've found it to be a possible card to replace after testing the GP winning deck. Does anyone think Bound in Silence would make a good substitute? Or should we stick with Chromatic Star for a one-drop fixer?
2. Shifter is a possibility, but I'm guessing the usual Fortune Thief.
Finally, going through the winning GP decklist, it's easy to see Temporal Isolation and Riftsweeper can be removed for better choices. Should Temporal Isolation be replaced with Bound in Slience or just fill in those slots for Fiery Justice/Kavu Predator combo? It just feels not really worth splashing in red for such a small combo, though I will agree it's probably the best instants rather than Thrill of the Hunt.
- Natsume
Red arguably gives you more than white does. Dead & Gone is so huge in this format, in this build I can't imagine running any less than 4. I boaded them into my RG deck for every post-board game in Montreal. It burns morphs before they can flip, kills Elephants and bounces big scary fatties like Force or Gargadon.
Kudos to hosscat for running Boom & Bust... you have 7 targets in Expanse and Flagstones to make it an undercosted Stone Rain, and buys you at least an extra turn. This along with the Pacts, as you mentioned.
And Fiery Justice is much more than one-half of a combo... combined with Dead & Gone it helps clear the way for your heavy hitters.
Also Riftsweeper is a must MD. Gargadon and that annoying Riftwing Cloudskate are two of the biggest problems, and it deals with both for 2 mana. Also hoses random SfT's, Nihiliths and Ancestral Visions.
i've been thinking of using serrated arrows instead of isolation
A) they cant do the "sac to stop the prevent damage
B)its an artifact and you've got griffin guide already
C) kills weenies
also i want to add spectral force and scryb ranger
seems real good
EDIT quick question id i get Stupor and i discard at random Quagnoth am i able to discard it again or would stupor ahve to resolve completely before Quagnoth ability resolves
1. Temporal Isolation is the best removal card in block vs. anything without Greater Gargadon suspended. In every other matchup (particularly the mirror), the card is amazing. I expect a lot of G/x Aggro decks, and the easiest way to lock them out of combat is Isolation. I also like Bound in Silence, but the instant speed of Temporal Isolation allows me to main deck the Isolation over Bound in Silence, and bring in Bound in Silence out of the board.
2. I like Scragnoth since I am more concerned about UG and MonoU than Bu Korlash builds out of my board. I have Whirling Dervish for the Bu matchups, but the amount of bounce in UG and MonoU is a huge pain for the tempo of this deck, in particular cards like Venser, Snapback, Riftwing Cloudskate, et al. Plus, it blocks Teferi, Brine Elemental, and Vesuvan Shapeshifter all day long. That's good. Don't get me wrong, I like Quagnoth too, and I think it is decidedly underplayed at the moment, but I would rather play the Dervishes in that matchup.
3. Serrated Arrows is great, but the mirror trump (aside from Isolation) is Thrill of the Hunt, that card is amazing in the mirror, and I will probably board extra Thrills over the Serrated Arrows. Does anyone else think this is the right call?
4. Is there room for Stonewood Invocation in this list?
5. What are the sideboarding plans you would make/changes vs. the established archetypes?
-- Mono Red
-- Korlash
-- Mirror builds including the GW/r or GW/u versions
I expect a lot of mirrors, Take Possession, and other trump cards for the mirror tomorrow at the PTQ.
It's secret tech if you plan on blocking a Flanker with a Riftsweeper or a Saffi, they'll become a 1/1 and then a 2/3, often taking the Flanker out.
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@BillyTheFridge
Basically... force past it. After a while, they kinda ran out of things to do, and somewhat lacked win conditions against me.