I believe UW Venser Control is the most solid choice because it has 6-8 'walkers and the best answer in the format: Stoic Rebuttal. Other decks are either weaker or feel metagamed, but UW is rock solid.
Here's what I'm working on, in collaboration with FoundOmega:
The mana base is the weakest part of the deck, as it really needs UU, WW, and 5 mana to operate successfully.
The move to a few 4 power flyers helps against Koth, since you now have some way to threaten Koth besides holding Stoic Rebuttal. It's also a great way to have a leg up in the mirror.
Speaking of the mirror, maxing out on Stags and Vensers is probably the best way to combat UW or BWu, and just happens to be the strongest combo in the format.
Arrest is definitely lackluster against Venser, but a couple is necessary to shore up against Big Red, RW Control, and enough redundant answers early against Architect decks.
Sideboard is a conventional one and makes certain maindeck numbers go up when necessary, and a singleton Turn Aside as it can be a blowout but will never be anything more than a single dead draw.
EDIT:
Yeah, new version for updated metagame. MODO queues are filled with UW, BWu, and Architect. To play in this metagame, you should just pre-board your deck.
Magnets are so hot right now because the format is dominated by white, blue, and black. Clasp, OTOH, is worth less because no one is running x/1's anymore. However, 3 is still necessary because you need to proliferate those Magnets to shut down the Architect matchup. Revoke is amazing against Architect, but not as much against the mirror or BWu. The only real target is opposing Magnets, and Clasp if it comes to it. Also, 4 Archangel is necessary if you want to compete with BWu. Their Skinrenders eat your Stags, so you need some other creature to lead the way. Most BWu are running Arrest instead of Grasp of Darkness right now, which is golden for Archangel because neither Arrest or Skinrender takes down Archangel, leaving Stag and Venser as pure value to counteract theirs. UW cannot conceivably beat BWu without this 4/4.
You really want a bit more counters against Architect, because Battlesphere and Mindslaver do present real troubles. They also play Stoic, and can more reasonably expect metalcraft, so it's iffy how good your own are. That's why the deck should go up to 4 Halt Orders post-board. Lastly, ZERO maindeck Volition Reins. Stag and Venser are dominating the format, so this card becomes a liability in most cases. Playing as UW, they'll expect you to have a few, so they might be hesitant to bring Venser up to 9 without some counter backup, and BWu might have to settle for hoping there's a Clasp on board to actually ultimate their Venser. If they are making such a play, zero maindeck Reins is just pure awesome.
Until the metagame shifts again to more red decks, this is a very good version to take into battle.
Gix is correct when it comes to the pre-boarding and Archangel. I went 4-0 in last nights daily using the pre-board strategy. I ran into problems vs BWu because I was using sphynx instead of archangel. Skinrenders were taking down my sphynx left and right. Archangel will cause more havok here.
Pre-boarding does put you in danger against aggro decks, you will most likely lose game 1. My last match I was against BR and I lost game 1. Games 2 and 3 were all mine once the control hate went out and the aggro hate went in.
But since the meta right now is mostly control, I don't mind taking chances with the deck.
Thanks again Gix for the 4x tumble magnet suggestion for those pesky Architect decks. Without them, match 1 would have been ugly for me.
Essentially, it has two ways of dealing with quicker artifact based white decks now, which make it different from how it played before. It plays Origin Spellbomb and Trinket Mage for early rushes. My version online looks like the following:
But you would still suffer from glint hawk and he idols? And possibly he sunchasers. Flying is the problem. There isn't a great early answer to an axed up hawk.
Did you miss the contagion clasps in there. Revoke gets rid of Glint hawk Idols. Honestly, sunchaser is a vanilla 1/1 with no metalcraft. The white weenie deck isn't really that common and dies badly to both the infect deck and mono red.
As far as WW Equip goes, it isn't a horrendous matchup at all. I haven't tested too much against it, but I've beaten it a few times, once in a daily and the others in 2-mans. I suspect it's 50/50 most of the time, and obviously depends on the version. Ironically, going with Archangel is probably better than playing Arrest, because 1 Archangel + 1 Magnet will hold off their entire attack barring double equipment. This is better than Arrest because you can still attack with Archangel, then Venser or Stag it to gain pseudo-vigilance.
The whole point is to stall until 6 mana, where you then resolve Sunblast Angel and then they cry all the way home. Plus, all your cards are so live against them. Revoke is amazing, Stag is the nutz against Strata Scythe and Chimeric Mass, Magnet and Clasp are easily worth a card, if not more with blink effects, and you have Sunblast for cleanup. And if they trip up anywhere against you, it's probably game. I'd rather be in UW position, personally, but it's definitely a close matchup because they are definitely faster and you can trip up on mana too. In fact, I'm sure the only reason the format is competitive is because the control decks' mana aren't that great, so Architect, WW Equip, and red midrange variants have a chance against Venser-oriented control decks.
Gix, I tried your list almost card for card. Very happy with it. I started at 2 Indomitable Archangel, went up to 3, then 4. I side them out vs mono blue artifacts, but I'm not sure that's correct. What's your sb plan? What if they run Argent Sphinx?
MonoU has no fliers maindeck and can't deal once fliers resolve. So more angels versus them is good.
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I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
I've been seeing several MonoU lists with Sphinxes in them.
I don't recall a decent showing from those decks outside of a couple 3-1's. They use trinket mage to up the artifact count and I suppose play a little bit more aggressive.
They really look like Architect decks minus the Architect.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Stag is really versatile. You can use it to reset Tumble Magnet and planeswalkers, reuse any of your etb triggers, exile a token, reset the other guy's Mimic Vat or Chimeric Mass, or untap a creature you've attacked with.
Targeting a Stag with Venser or another Stag will exile a permanent until the end of your opponent's next turn. Looping that with Venser can be a good way of keeping your opponent off key permanents, even lands.
I'm just curious: what makes stag so good? why is everyone playing it?
Stag is busted open. Think about all the things you can bounce. It completely hoses Imprint getting rid of one of the most Broken advantage cards in a while (Mimic Vat), it combos with Venser to give him a pump target while exiling your opponents stuff.
It has 3 toughness making it imune to a lot of cheep removal. I will be the first to say I completely underestimated this card.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
White weenie and poison are pretty good at punishing this deck for missing land drops and/or not being able to produce WW/UU soon enough. That being said, I run 27 lands and after SBing have 4 Contagion Clasp and 4 Tumble Magnet, which help take pressure off my mana base. Also, like Yoshi said, the list at the start of the thread doesn't really represent what people are playing now.
I've recently started running a single Horizon Spellbomb with two Razorgrove Thickets replacing two Plains. This and three Trinket Mages has greatly helped stabilize the mana issues I used to hve with this deck, and I'm running 25 lands.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Do you also run Origin Spellbomb? I tried 3 Trinket Mage 4 Origin Spellbomb for a while but found that the creatures weren't useful and the thinning/cantripping wasn't powerful enough to justify the card slots and mana investment. Only exception is T1 spellbomb, T2 crack eot. Even then, sometimes you want a T2 Contagion Clasp or Revoke Existence instead.
I run three mages, 4x origin Spellbombs and one Horizon Spellbomb. It's not so much the cantripping I find useful, but the cantrip + blocker. There's SO much control online right now that having the clasps in the board is fine, and I'd really just rather find any form of card advantage I can.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
I always leave Contagion Clasp in against control because it keeps Tumble Magnet active and lets me hit Venser's ultimate without giving the other guy a chance to steal him at 8+ loyalty. I'm going to make a new list, hopefully with enough room for Trinket Mage + spellbombs, but also Contagion Clasp + Magnet.
Stag is really versatile. You can use it to reset Tumble Magnet and planeswalkers, reuse any of your etb triggers, exile a token, reset the other guy's Mimic Vat or Chimeric Mass, or untap a creature you've attacked with.
Targeting a Stag with Venser or another Stag will exile a permanent until the end of your opponent's next turn. Looping that with Venser can be a good way of keeping your opponent off key permanents, even lands.
Looking forward to seeing your updated decklist....I honestly cannot see playing with Razorverge Thicket, though. You risk the chance of not having that UU with one more land that doesn't produce blue mana. My current deck is a bit different from what I listed earlier:
I've done it with different land totals, but I feel the 27 land is necessary to make sure to get the right mana combo for Stoic Rebuttal at 3 and the Stag at 4 and Venser at 5. I did go 3-1 with a very similar version of this, but feel the 27 land is the best method. I believe my last version that went 3-1 had 26 land(Magic Online daily 3-1, sorry).
Looking forward to seeing your updated decklist....I honestly cannot see playing with Razorverge Thicket, though. You risk the chance of not having that UU with one more land that doesn't produce blue mana.
Nononono. The 3 Razorverge Thickets all replace plains. You lose -0- blue sources and actually add 4 ways to FIND blue sources. You also add some needed CA + Thinning by pulling out lands with cantrip. All you lose is that you give yourself a greater possibility of your 4th,5th or 6th land will ETB tapped and slow you down a turn, which can occasionally be relevant if u need to drop a PW or Sunblast angel ASAP.
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SOM Block Constructed Daily #1733667 on 11/04/2010
11 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Glimmerpoint Stag
1 Sunblast Angel
4 Arrest
4 Contagion Clasp
3 Elspeth Tirel
4 Revoke Existence
4 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Trigon of Thought
2 Tumble Magnet
3 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Volition Reins
1 Contagion Engine
2 Dispense Justice
1 Glimmerpoint Stag
2 Halt Order
2 Myr Battlesphere
3 Precursor Golem
1 Sunblast Angel
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Here's what I'm working on, in collaboration with FoundOmega:
11 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glimmerpoint Stag
3 Indomitable Archangel
2 Sunblast Angel
3 Revoke Existence
2 Arrest
2 Elspeth Tirel
4 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Volition Reins
4 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Contagion Clasp
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Indomitable Archangel
1 Sunblast Angel
1 Revoke Existence
2 Arrest
2 Dispense Justice
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Turn Aside
3 Halt Order
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Contagion Engine
The mana base is the weakest part of the deck, as it really needs UU, WW, and 5 mana to operate successfully.
The move to a few 4 power flyers helps against Koth, since you now have some way to threaten Koth besides holding Stoic Rebuttal. It's also a great way to have a leg up in the mirror.
Speaking of the mirror, maxing out on Stags and Vensers is probably the best way to combat UW or BWu, and just happens to be the strongest combo in the format.
Arrest is definitely lackluster against Venser, but a couple is necessary to shore up against Big Red, RW Control, and enough redundant answers early against Architect decks.
Sideboard is a conventional one and makes certain maindeck numbers go up when necessary, and a singleton Turn Aside as it can be a blowout but will never be anything more than a single dead draw.
EDIT:
Yeah, new version for updated metagame. MODO queues are filled with UW, BWu, and Architect. To play in this metagame, you should just pre-board your deck.
11 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glimmerpoint Stag
4 Indomitable Archangel
3 Sunblast Angel
3 Revoke Existence
1 Arrest
2 Elspeth Tirel
1 Halt Order
4 Stoic Rebuttal
4 Venser, the Sojourner
3 Contagion Clasp
4 Tumble Magnet
1 Revoke Existence
3 Arrest
2 Dispense Justice
1 Elspeth Tirel
3 Halt Order
3 Volition Reins
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
Magnets are so hot right now because the format is dominated by white, blue, and black. Clasp, OTOH, is worth less because no one is running x/1's anymore. However, 3 is still necessary because you need to proliferate those Magnets to shut down the Architect matchup. Revoke is amazing against Architect, but not as much against the mirror or BWu. The only real target is opposing Magnets, and Clasp if it comes to it. Also, 4 Archangel is necessary if you want to compete with BWu. Their Skinrenders eat your Stags, so you need some other creature to lead the way. Most BWu are running Arrest instead of Grasp of Darkness right now, which is golden for Archangel because neither Arrest or Skinrender takes down Archangel, leaving Stag and Venser as pure value to counteract theirs. UW cannot conceivably beat BWu without this 4/4.
You really want a bit more counters against Architect, because Battlesphere and Mindslaver do present real troubles. They also play Stoic, and can more reasonably expect metalcraft, so it's iffy how good your own are. That's why the deck should go up to 4 Halt Orders post-board. Lastly, ZERO maindeck Volition Reins. Stag and Venser are dominating the format, so this card becomes a liability in most cases. Playing as UW, they'll expect you to have a few, so they might be hesitant to bring Venser up to 9 without some counter backup, and BWu might have to settle for hoping there's a Clasp on board to actually ultimate their Venser. If they are making such a play, zero maindeck Reins is just pure awesome.
Until the metagame shifts again to more red decks, this is a very good version to take into battle.
Pre-boarding does put you in danger against aggro decks, you will most likely lose game 1. My last match I was against BR and I lost game 1. Games 2 and 3 were all mine once the control hate went out and the aggro hate went in.
But since the meta right now is mostly control, I don't mind taking chances with the deck.
Thanks again Gix for the 4x tumble magnet suggestion for those pesky Architect decks. Without them, match 1 would have been ugly for me.
4 Glimmerpoint Stag
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Trinket Mage
3 Sunblast Angel
Other Spells:
3 Contagion Clasp
4 Revoke Existence
4 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Elspeth Tirel
3 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Origin Spellbomb
4 Seachrome Coast
14 Island
8 Plains
4 Arrest
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Dispense Justice
2 Halt Order
2 Volition Reins
1 Contagion Clasp
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
The whole point is to stall until 6 mana, where you then resolve Sunblast Angel and then they cry all the way home. Plus, all your cards are so live against them. Revoke is amazing, Stag is the nutz against Strata Scythe and Chimeric Mass, Magnet and Clasp are easily worth a card, if not more with blink effects, and you have Sunblast for cleanup. And if they trip up anywhere against you, it's probably game. I'd rather be in UW position, personally, but it's definitely a close matchup because they are definitely faster and you can trip up on mana too. In fact, I'm sure the only reason the format is competitive is because the control decks' mana aren't that great, so Architect, WW Equip, and red midrange variants have a chance against Venser-oriented control decks.
I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
Sig by DD Awie by CC
I've been seeing several MonoU lists with Sphinxes in them.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
I don't recall a decent showing from those decks outside of a couple 3-1's. They use trinket mage to up the artifact count and I suppose play a little bit more aggressive.
They really look like Architect decks minus the Architect.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Targeting a Stag with Venser or another Stag will exile a permanent until the end of your opponent's next turn. Looping that with Venser can be a good way of keeping your opponent off key permanents, even lands.
Joking right? I assume you just took one look at the sample list without actually knowing what's going on in daily and premier events.
Stag is busted open. Think about all the things you can bounce. It completely hoses Imprint getting rid of one of the most Broken advantage cards in a while (Mimic Vat), it combos with Venser to give him a pump target while exiling your opponents stuff.
It has 3 toughness making it imune to a lot of cheep removal. I will be the first to say I completely underestimated this card.
White weenie and poison are pretty good at punishing this deck for missing land drops and/or not being able to produce WW/UU soon enough. That being said, I run 27 lands and after SBing have 4 Contagion Clasp and 4 Tumble Magnet, which help take pressure off my mana base. Also, like Yoshi said, the list at the start of the thread doesn't really represent what people are playing now.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Looking forward to seeing your updated decklist....I honestly cannot see playing with Razorverge Thicket, though. You risk the chance of not having that UU with one more land that doesn't produce blue mana. My current deck is a bit different from what I listed earlier:
3 Sunblast Angel
4 Glimmerpoint Stag
3 Trinket Mage
Other Spells:
3 Venser, the Sojourner
3 Elspeth Tirel
4 Origin Spellbomb
3 Revoke Existence
3 Contagion Clasp
3 Tumble Magnet
4 Stoic Rebuttal
4 Seachrome Coast
9 Island
14 Plains
1 Tumble Magnet
3 Dispense Justice
4 Arrest
4 Indomitable Archangel
2 Halt Order
1 Contagion Engine
I've done it with different land totals, but I feel the 27 land is necessary to make sure to get the right mana combo for Stoic Rebuttal at 3 and the Stag at 4 and Venser at 5. I did go 3-1 with a very similar version of this, but feel the 27 land is the best method. I believe my last version that went 3-1 had 26 land(Magic Online daily 3-1, sorry).
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Nononono. The 3 Razorverge Thickets all replace plains. You lose -0- blue sources and actually add 4 ways to FIND blue sources. You also add some needed CA + Thinning by pulling out lands with cantrip. All you lose is that you give yourself a greater possibility of your 4th,5th or 6th land will ETB tapped and slow you down a turn, which can occasionally be relevant if u need to drop a PW or Sunblast angel ASAP.