- x Mountain
- Mortarpod(which is the only really lame target in the deck. If they want to hit Sphere, go nuts.)
- Burn the Impure
+4 Blackcleave Cliffs
+X Swamp
+4 Go for the Throat
+3 Black Sun's Zenith
Which also gives you access to Memoricide, making your match ups against Koth, other Planeswalkers, Commando, Thrun and Crusader that much better game two and three.
It's what i've found to be best. Running enough Swamp to make BSZ not terrible isn't as bad as you think, and the black splash gives you answers to things you have problems with(Crusader, Sphinx, Vatmother, Thrun, ect).
Any splash with Koth can make it dangerous because it then becomes profitable for the UB person to use removal on your mountains though. But I imagine if you build/play carefully you can work around this in most cases.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
I'm looking to get into block construsted. I hope you don't mind that I copy your deck as a starting point to get into the "Big Red" scene.
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"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor. The real battle is not one of power but of will. If your confidence breaks, so too shall you.”
Imo the kuldotha phoenixes are vital... and would definitely play spheres over the myrs. Red sun zenith should pbbly have at least 3 slots. Koth + phoenix + RSZ is already a winning combination. Maybe you should start from that already successful core and add the gambit and maybe a couple of urabrasks.
Are you sure about dropping the Myr? I like the ramp, and I'd rather not use Geosurge. Also, the addition of the Myr give me a 16 artifact count, and I want to be able to achieve metalcraft consistently.
I would play 4x Kuldotha Phoenix over Urabrask, and 4x Shrine of Burning Rage over Moltensteel Dragon. Shrine of Burning Rage usually deals 6 to 10 damage using this deck, and it takes care of pesky Phyrexian Crusader and Creatures equipped with SoWaP.
I like the idea of 8 2cmc mana accelarator. so you can cast Koth turn 3 consistently.
I would play 4x Kuldotha Phoenix over Urabrask, and 4x Shrine of Burning Rage over Moltensteel Dragon. Shrine of Burning Rage usually deals 6 to 10 damage using this deck, and it takes care of pesky Phyrexian Crusader and Creatures equipped with SoWaP.
I like the idea of 8 2cmc mana accelarator. so you can cast Koth turn 3 consistently.
I'm a Block Constructed newb... but why don't you guys play with Inkmoth Nexus?
I've found the 2 to 3 Artifact threshold to be a pain many times. Inkmoth easily solves this and only makes Phoenix cost 5 instead of 4 to return to play which is still awesome. Obviously the Inkmoths can serve other purposes such as blocking/trading while 20 Mountains should still be plenty for Phoenix RRR or Koth.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
The deck right above your post already has 16 artifact sources for the metalcraft. That being said, there as an article on starcitygames.com I read after talking to the author on MODO. Bear in mind, this is online so it does not contain changes from NPH:
I think Burn the Impure is an absolutely essential sideboard card online. What you choose in that slot in your meta depends on how much infect you expect to see. Into the Core deals with Wurmcoil better than shatter, leaving no 3/3s behind.
In my testing, Karn is almost always cast by the Koth mana hability, and normally, it means victory. The Magnet, and galvanic, give you time for the 4-5 mana spells. The only problem, is when you have only 3 lands and dont draw more. The dragon is a very nice finisher with the Shrine, and also, can be cast with 4 mana when you are in troubles.
Surgical Extraction is very good against Architects and mirror.
Opinions?
If you're showing us a list post NPH, without Volt Charge, I don't think I can comment on it yet. I'm certainly not against Karn...But....Yeah...Volt Charge. x4. ASAP.
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MTGO Username: BigMizzet
Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself, which is more dangerous then to copy others. It leads to sterility. – Pablo Picasso
I'm running this version of the deck right now and its doing pretty good ! (ok i only have 1 karn but i will get my 2nd asap ) i play 4 tezzeret gambit instead.
I was thing about playing Slagstrom because 6/8 of my creatures survive it and its really good to protect planeswalker or finish the game with direct damage ! What do you think about it ?
I have a couple of questions for those of you who have been testing with NPH.
Volt Charge looks strong, but I would think you need to be running enough things that care about counters to run it as a 4 of. Koth isn't enough right?
I've seen a couple of lists with Tezzeret's Gambit. 2 Life + 3 for net 1 card and 2 deeper? Doesn't really seem like something I would want to topdeck.
Here is the real question. These decks look very Koth dependent. How agressively are you willing to mull to get Koth?
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I want to give the 'Proliferate engine' thing a try. The 2x Myrs are only there to act as 2-drop mana accelerant #5-6, to better enable T3 Koth or Scrapmelter. Plague Myr just seems better than Iron Myr though, because it's so much better at chumping. I'm a little worried about only having 2 Galvanic Blast, as literally all of the lists on this page are playing 4, but I only want so much burn, and Galv Blast just naturally got the axe in face of more expensive, but more powerful cards. If this is wrong, please let me know, though I feel red already has a pretty great aggro match up, and I can shore up that match up from the SB pretty well anyway.
Overall the most sketchy cards are Shrine and Tezz's Gambit (ie the Proliferate Engine). If they don't turn out to be consistently good enough, I just play other good stuff - maybe Spellskite in the MD, as that guy is going into the SB for sure at the very least. Spellskite seems nuts vs Tezz, decent vs aggro, great at protecting things like Precursor Golem (another card I've been heavily considering, though at this point probably just in the SB).
I don't have a SB yet because I'm just stepping into Block play. I plan on playing on MODO, though, so any hints on what the metagame is like (and thus what I should prepare for, and how) would be appreciated.
Well right now the meta is basically 4 decks, but I suspect people will be trying new things out with NPH cards.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
IMO Kudoltha Phoenix is THE reason to play Big Red. I can't imagine a version with less than 4 copies of him.
Even considering Urabrask the Hidden? I haven't played block yet but Urabrask is a beating even in Standard. I feel like 2-3 Phoenix + 2 Urabrask would be ideal, because you want to be able to recur Phoenix when possible, and obv. flying is pretty huge, but you only need one Phoenix to be able to recur it. You also don't want to draw a ton of Urabrask, but he's insane on an empty / on-par board, esp. when followed with a Wurmcoil or Precursor Golem or something.
Other successful lists have been playing no creatures in the main, with the exact same creature setup in the SB to board in after the opponent (presumably) boards out a lot of their removal. Those lists look like so:
Those lists sum up what Big Red has been looking like on MTGO since NPH has been available. A couple other random Red lists all had Wurmcoil Engine in the maindeck as well, so I'm sure playing Wurmy is a fine choice right now, too - though watch out for those Dispatches that are basically everywhere that Tempered Steel is.
what do you gust think of Karn Liberated in this deck? seems solid, since we can ramp and play Karn turn 4 or 5.
I think it looks like a solid SB option if you're expecting a lot of control. As it is, though, I believe just stacking on difficult-to-answer threats like Phoenix, Koth and Wurmcoil is fine vs control, alongside plenty of burn for Planeswalkers / to finish the opponent off.
comments? what is the best build so far post NPH? with a lot of other decks coming out (e.g. extractor)
I'd cut the Iron Myrs for Volt Charge. It means 2 counters on a Shrine :p. I know you are trying to maximize your chances of a turn 3 Koth, which is deadly, but the myr is a dead draw later in the game, whereas the Volt charge will almost never be a dead draw ;p.
- x Mountain
- Mortarpod(which is the only really lame target in the deck. If they want to hit Sphere, go nuts.)
- Burn the Impure
+4 Blackcleave Cliffs
+X Swamp
+4 Go for the Throat
+3 Black Sun's Zenith
Which also gives you access to Memoricide, making your match ups against Koth, other Planeswalkers, Commando, Thrun and Crusader that much better game two and three.
It's what i've found to be best. Running enough Swamp to make BSZ not terrible isn't as bad as you think, and the black splash gives you answers to things you have problems with(Crusader, Sphinx, Vatmother, Thrun, ect).
I'm looking to get into block construsted. I hope you don't mind that I copy your deck as a starting point to get into the "Big Red" scene.
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"BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM MYR SUPERION"
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Iron Myr
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Volt Charge
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
Any suggestions for this really rough draft?
WReya DawnbringerWGBounteous KirinGRUrabrask the HiddenR
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Iron Myr
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Volt Charge
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
Are you sure about dropping the Myr? I like the ramp, and I'd rather not use Geosurge. Also, the addition of the Myr give me a 16 artifact count, and I want to be able to achieve metalcraft consistently.
WReya DawnbringerWGBounteous KirinGRUrabrask the HiddenR
I would play 4x Kuldotha Phoenix over Urabrask, and 4x Shrine of Burning Rage over Moltensteel Dragon. Shrine of Burning Rage usually deals 6 to 10 damage using this deck, and it takes care of pesky Phyrexian Crusader and Creatures equipped with SoWaP.
I like the idea of 8 2cmc mana accelarator. so you can cast Koth turn 3 consistently.
4 Iron Myr
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Volt Charge
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Red Sun Zenith
24 Mountain
"BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM MYR SUPERION"
I would play 4x Kuldotha Phoenix over Urabrask, and 4x Shrine of Burning Rage over Moltensteel Dragon. Shrine of Burning Rage usually deals 6 to 10 damage using this deck, and it takes care of pesky Phyrexian Crusader and Creatures equipped with SoWaP.
I like the idea of 8 2cmc mana accelarator. so you can cast Koth turn 3 consistently.
4 Iron Myr
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Volt Charge
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Red Sun Zenith
24 Mountain
4x Oxidda Scrapmelter
4x NPH pro red guy
4x Slagstorm
3x MBS Pithing Needle guy
"BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM MYR SUPERION"
I've found the 2 to 3 Artifact threshold to be a pain many times. Inkmoth easily solves this and only makes Phoenix cost 5 instead of 4 to return to play which is still awesome. Obviously the Inkmoths can serve other purposes such as blocking/trading while 20 Mountains should still be plenty for Phoenix RRR or Koth.
4 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tumble Magnet
Artifact Creatures
3 Perilous Myr
4 Precursor Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Creatures
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
2 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Galvanic Blast
Planeswalkers
4 Koth of the Hammer
Sorceries
4 Red Sun's Zenith
2 Slagstorm
Basic Lands
21 Mountain
Lands
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Perilous Myr
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Burn the Impure
2 Into the Core
1 Slagstorm
I think Burn the Impure is an absolutely essential sideboard card online. What you choose in that slot in your meta depends on how much infect you expect to see. Into the Core deals with Wurmcoil better than shatter, leaving no 3/3s behind.
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If you're showing us a list post NPH, without Volt Charge, I don't think I can comment on it yet. I'm certainly not against Karn...But....Yeah...Volt Charge. x4. ASAP.
Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself, which is more dangerous then to copy others. It leads to sterility. – Pablo Picasso
4x Tumble Magnet
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
4x Kuldotha Phoenix
2x Moltensteel Dragon
2x Oxidda Scrapmelter
4x Volt Charge
3x Tezzeret Gambit
1x Red sun Zenith
2x Karn Liberated
22x Mountain
I was thing about playing Slagstrom because 6/8 of my creatures survive it and its really good to protect planeswalker or finish the game with direct damage ! What do you think about it ?
4 Koth of the Hammer
Creatures (12)
4 Perilous Myr
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
2 Precursor Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Instants (8)
4 Volt Charge
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Red Sun's Zenith
3 Slagstorm
Artifacts (9)
3 Shrine of Burning Rage
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Sphere of the Suns
1 Mortarpod
Lands (22)
22 Mountain
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Into the Core
3 Oxidda Scrapmelter
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Slagstorm
3 Burn the Impure
Thoughts on that? I don't see many people here playing Clasp, but I like it a lot.
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Volt Charge looks strong, but I would think you need to be running enough things that care about counters to run it as a 4 of. Koth isn't enough right?
I've seen a couple of lists with Tezzeret's Gambit. 2 Life + 3 for net 1 card and 2 deeper? Doesn't really seem like something I would want to topdeck.
Here is the real question. These decks look very Koth dependent. How agressively are you willing to mull to get Koth?
20 Mountain
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Sphere of the Suns
2 Plague Myr
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Volt Charge
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
Disruption (11)
2 Galvanic Blast
3 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Oxida Scrapmelter
2 Kuldotha Phoenix
2 Urabrask the Hidden
3 Wurmcoil Engine
I want to give the 'Proliferate engine' thing a try. The 2x Myrs are only there to act as 2-drop mana accelerant #5-6, to better enable T3 Koth or Scrapmelter. Plague Myr just seems better than Iron Myr though, because it's so much better at chumping. I'm a little worried about only having 2 Galvanic Blast, as literally all of the lists on this page are playing 4, but I only want so much burn, and Galv Blast just naturally got the axe in face of more expensive, but more powerful cards. If this is wrong, please let me know, though I feel red already has a pretty great aggro match up, and I can shore up that match up from the SB pretty well anyway.
Overall the most sketchy cards are Shrine and Tezz's Gambit (ie the Proliferate Engine). If they don't turn out to be consistently good enough, I just play other good stuff - maybe Spellskite in the MD, as that guy is going into the SB for sure at the very least. Spellskite seems nuts vs Tezz, decent vs aggro, great at protecting things like Precursor Golem (another card I've been heavily considering, though at this point probably just in the SB).
I don't have a SB yet because I'm just stepping into Block play. I plan on playing on MODO, though, so any hints on what the metagame is like (and thus what I should prepare for, and how) would be appreciated.
Even considering Urabrask the Hidden? I haven't played block yet but Urabrask is a beating even in Standard. I feel like 2-3 Phoenix + 2 Urabrask would be ideal, because you want to be able to recur Phoenix when possible, and obv. flying is pretty huge, but you only need one Phoenix to be able to recur it. You also don't want to draw a ton of Urabrask, but he's insane on an empty / on-par board, esp. when followed with a Wurmcoil or Precursor Golem or something.
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Kuldotha Phoenix
2x Oxidda Scrapmelter
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
4x Sphere of the Suns
3x Iron Myr
3x Tumble Magnet
4x Tezzerets Gambit
3x Slagstorm
24x Mountains
3x Vulshok Refugee
2x Into the core
2x Precursor Golem
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Slagstorm
4x Galvanic Blast
comments? what is the best build so far post NPH? with a lot of other decks coming out (e.g. extractor)
"BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM MYR SUPERION"
21 Mountain
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Creatures - 8
4 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
Planeswalkers - 4
4 Koth of the Hammer
Artifacts - 11
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Tumble Magnet
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Volt Charge
2 Slagstorm
2 Red Sun's Zenith
4 Perilous Myr
4 Ratchet Bomb
2 Slagstorm
3 Into the Core
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Other successful lists have been playing no creatures in the main, with the exact same creature setup in the SB to board in after the opponent (presumably) boards out a lot of their removal. Those lists look like so:
21 Mountain
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Planeswalkers - 4
4 Koth of the Hammer
Artifacts - 12
4 Sphere of the Suns
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Slagstorm
4 Volt Charge
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Red Sun's Zenith
4 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
3 Into the Core
4 (Personal Choice - Perilous Myr, Ratchet Bomb, etc)
Lastly, a dude with the username 'Sorinth' has been rocking a different list regularly that's been putting up some solid results:
21 Mountain
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Creatures - 13
2 Spikeshot Elder
4 Oxidda Scrapmelter
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Koth of the Hammer
Artifacts - 6
4 Sphere of the Suns
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
Other - 12
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Slagstorm
4 Red Sun's Zenith
4 Burn the Impure
4 Into the Core
4 Perilous Myr
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Tumble Magnet
Those lists sum up what Big Red has been looking like on MTGO since NPH has been available. A couple other random Red lists all had Wurmcoil Engine in the maindeck as well, so I'm sure playing Wurmy is a fine choice right now, too - though watch out for those Dispatches that are basically everywhere that Tempered Steel is.
"BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM MYR SUPERION"
I'd cut the Iron Myrs for Volt Charge. It means 2 counters on a Shrine :p. I know you are trying to maximize your chances of a turn 3 Koth, which is deadly, but the myr is a dead draw later in the game, whereas the Volt charge will almost never be a dead draw ;p.
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