UW Architect is definitely an up-and-coming Block deck, although I would move towards a Venser package these days rather than doodling around with Volition Reins. The great thing about UW Architect is that it gets to play more questions against UW Control, and has a good chance of overloading their Revokes. Packaging Precursor Golem with Wurmcoil Engine, and suddenly, UW's Magnets aren't so hot in setting up Sunblast Angel. Since UW Architect also has a lot of the best cards in UW Control (Venser, Stag, and Rebuttal), this probably gives it the advantage in the matchup.
What about a mono-blue version, geared more towards combo than control?
Portal + Mindslaver
Solition + Heavy Arbalist
Grand Architect + blure creatures
Or what about:
Shape anew + wurmcoil engine as only artifact (or trinket mage with only one extra artifact)
Just shooting some ideas out there...thoughts?
Also, I didn't know that there were block tournaments on MTGO (havent been on in a while). are they in the constructed section, premier, or daily events?
What about a mono-blue version, geared more towards combo than control?
Portal + Mindslaver
Solition + Heavy Arbalist
Grand Architect + blure creatures
Or what about:
Shape anew + wurmcoil engine as only artifact (or trinket mage with only one extra artifact)
Just shooting some ideas out there...thoughts?
Also, I didn't know that there were block tournaments on MTGO (havent been on in a while). are they in the constructed section, premier, or daily events?
They are all of the above on MTGO. Actually the most popular, and effective, variant IS mono blue. Shape Anew is bad, so is portal and arbalist and whatnot. The winning decks are running Mindslavers, Wurmcoil Engines and Myr Battlespheres for their big flashy artifacts, and most are running Trygon of Thought as a draw engine.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
so you don't think that the u/w version is worth it with the glimmerpoint stag etc?
I have been running the mono blue version with the portal mindslaver in standard on MTGO for a while at it has been okay. I recently moved the combo to the bored for the control matches so that I have a lot more threats to them. I wanted to port this to block, and it seems like it is already established.
What should the base blue creatures be? Is this more of a contol deck or an aggro deck?
There is going to be a lot of artifact removal (splice in twain, revoke existance, oxxida scrapmetal, sylvok replica) so maybe turn aside should be maindeck (doesn't help with Oxxida or sylvok)? I can see why the mindslaver portal won't work then.
What do u all board in and out vs UW and red with the typical mono blue build? Also I've been trying the less controlling version with 4 sphinx and 8 myrs seems solid and fast. You'll notice it in the daily lists.
Yeah you're not looking to make an army of blue creatures here. Architect and Sphinx are enough. Some lists run Trinket mage but I don't like them. Then just Silver Myr, Palladium Myr and your fatty artifacts. The deck is kind of like aggressive control. It has the "ability" to "kinda" control the board... but it also pumps out a turn 4 Wurmcoil Engine or Battlesphere pretty often.
I don't really like the UW variant as all I've seen it do is slow the deck down. I play UW and WBu Control, and I'm always more than happy to play against any kind of UW aggro deck.
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ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Well that is definately a lot different than I imagined it.
If it sounds like I'm talking out of my A$$ it is because I haven't tested block at all - so bear with me.
What is the sense of playing architect with only being able to tap itself or an argent sphinx for mana? It is just a better paladium myr at that point. I don't know if that decklist uses the architect to its fullest.
I think that the deck needs other blue creatures to make full use of GA. That is why I included Certarch and Thrumming bird (I know they aren't the best cards, but they get MUCH better with a GA in play or metalcraft/proliferate available) This logic makes the deck much more dependent on GA which is a weakness I know, by that is why I included more removal (disperse, Engine, cannon) so you can control until you find the GA or are late enough to hardcast threats.
Sample opening I just goldfished:
T1 Chimeric Mass for 1
T2 Thrumming Bird
T3 Trinket Mage for C Mass Proliferate 1st Mass
T4 GA Trigon with Turn Aside backup
T1 Certarch
T2 Disperse
T3 Trinket mage for Mass
T4 GA Hellkite
Not the best hand - but pretty decent. (Don't tell me about goldfishing not being valid, I'm just running through possibilities atm)
With the Myr list (Silver, paladium, battlesphere) you have no T1 drops.
Is this how the deck should curve out?
T1 Island
T2 Island Silver Myr
T3 Island Paladium Myr Silver Myr
T4 Island Wurmcoil Engine
T5 Island Architect, turn myr blue and smash
Wolfwood when playing u/w or u/w/b what decks or cards gives you he most trouble? And how is the mono black infect matchup?
The problem with Block control at the moment is the lack of a solid early game, as well as a shaky mana base. My worst matchup's are obviously against fast aggro that actually aggro's fast.
Against Architect decks though, I just look at my options. If I can counter the architects I will, but if I have reins and revokes in hand I'll usually just let them resolve the architects and try to play their fatties.
Against Black Infect, lately I've been 50/50, surprising as I never gave the deck much credit. Oddly enough it's Volition Reins that help me the most against that deck. The trick is just keeping their low creature count even lower, Tumble Magnet is king.
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ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
how good is riddlesmith? I have been playing a simliar deck but I play phinx in the slot that you have smith. Sphinx on turn 3 is nuts vs most decks especially with turn 4 architect.
looks solid! I'm kinda agreeing on the reins. Even if yo don't have it in deck the others will assume you have it and play around it. Let us know how it goes.
Okay, I'm starting to get the idea...I need to think of GA as just a REALLY good Paladium Myr, and think of the deck kind of like the ramp decks in standard.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I think that Contagion Clasp, Disperse, and Tumble Magnet are good enough at slowing down aggressive decks. It's not worth screwing up your mana that badly for 8 sideboard cards. You're often going to have trouble casting Architect or Rebuttal on turn 3 or Reins on turn 6 with that many non-Islands in the deck. I'm not even sure if 4 Glimmerpost is a good idea since they don't help you against the Infect deck.
I've been playing this deck with much success online. I just want to express my love for Trigon of Thought. It is a card advantage engine that looks innocuous at first. However, three cards later your opponent will be conceding. I play a mono blue version and my win percentage is up 20% by adding two Trigons main.
I'm seeing Mindslaver in a lot of the decks online, which matchups is it good against? I'm also not seeing too many Argent Sphinxes, how is that working out?
One last question: Volition Reins against Venser decks, do you just hold onto it until they play a Venser? Taking an Elspeth seems good but they can just drop a Venser and blink her back to their side.
I played with silver my for a while, the problem is its a terrible topdeck and you need answers to your opponents threats.
Disperse into counter, end of turn disperse a threat, turn 2 disperse your guy untap play an architect or just bounce a guy to protect vs removal or reigns.
Oh and to stop a planeswalker going ultimate.
I just think its better
Fair points, will try that.
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ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Went 2-2 in a daily today, lost to a B/W/u Venser deck, then beat one, then beat mono red, then lost to U/W Venser. I'm thinking about giving your list a try Monk, but I've been pretty underwhelmed by Wurmcoil Engine. What do you think about switching it out for 4 Steel Hellkite?
Went 2-2 in a daily today, lost to a B/W/u Venser deck, then beat one, then beat mono red, then lost to U/W Venser. I'm thinking about giving your list a try Monk, but I've been pretty underwhelmed by Wurmcoil Engine. What do you think about switching it out for 4 Steel Hellkite?
What was it that killed you in the matches you lost? Also, I would not play 4 hellkite. While Wurmcoil can be revoked, any other method of removing it gives you tokens. On the other hand, with Steel hellkite, a 2 mana spell kills your day, along with a simple scrapmelter. I think 1 or two is the right call.
In the mirror and against u/w the game comes down to playing off the top quite a lot, or one of you has 1 guy left. Trigon normally draws 3-5 cards in these matchups if played turn 4-6. I am thinking of going down to 1 as I never want 2. I think that having 1 Trigon and 1 Hellkite is probably better than 2 of either.
I recently made that exact adjustment and am happy for it. I've also been playing with Twisted Image, and I've found it has some fun application beyond just drawing cards off your Precursor Golem.
The only thing I'm still having trouble figuring out is Mindslaver. I have them, I see them in lists, but I can't quite figure out what it's really for. A 10 mana Time Walk? Something to bring in for control?
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ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Mindslaver is too narrow in my opinion. It is terrible when your behind and is unnecessary most of the time. Can I see your 75 my main is pretty much set. I just need to perfect my board.
It's not finalized, but here's what my current incarnation looks like.
SOM Block Constructed Daily #1733666 on 11/04/2010
10 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Glimmerpoint Stag
2 Gold Myr
4 Grand Architect
3 Myr Battlesphere
2 Silver Myr
4 Trinket Mage
4 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Chimeric Mass
4 Origin Spellbomb
3 Revoke Existence
3 Volition Reins
2 Arrest
1 Etched Champion
1 Necropede
4 Perilous Myr
3 Razor Hippogriff
1 Revoke Existence
3 Stoic Rebuttal
Portal + Mindslaver
Solition + Heavy Arbalist
Grand Architect + blure creatures
Or what about:
Shape anew + wurmcoil engine as only artifact (or trinket mage with only one extra artifact)
Just shooting some ideas out there...thoughts?
Also, I didn't know that there were block tournaments on MTGO (havent been on in a while). are they in the constructed section, premier, or daily events?
They are all of the above on MTGO. Actually the most popular, and effective, variant IS mono blue. Shape Anew is bad, so is portal and arbalist and whatnot. The winning decks are running Mindslavers, Wurmcoil Engines and Myr Battlespheres for their big flashy artifacts, and most are running Trygon of Thought as a draw engine.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
I have been running the mono blue version with the portal mindslaver in standard on MTGO for a while at it has been okay. I recently moved the combo to the bored for the control matches so that I have a lot more threats to them. I wanted to port this to block, and it seems like it is already established.
What should the base blue creatures be? Is this more of a contol deck or an aggro deck?
Grand architect
vedelken certarch
trinket mage
argent sphinx
thrumming bird
riddlesmith
Do we need counters?
stoic rebuttle
halt order
turn aside
Removal?
Disperse
Ratchet Bomb
Contaigion clasp/engine
Win conditions?
wurmcoil engine
argent sphinx
steel helkite
platinum emperion
There is going to be a lot of artifact removal (splice in twain, revoke existance, oxxida scrapmetal, sylvok replica) so maybe turn aside should be maindeck (doesn't help with Oxxida or sylvok)? I can see why the mindslaver portal won't work then.
My first take on the deck:
4 vedelken certarch
4 Thrumming Bird
4 Grand architect
2 Trinket Mage
3 Wurmcoil engine
2 Myr Battlesphere / Steel Helkite
2 Chimeric Mass
4 Stoic Rebuttle
2 Turn aside
4 Disperse
1 Contaigion Engine
2 Trigon of Thought
2 Lux Cannon
24 Island
SB:
3 Mind Slaver
1 Trigon of Thought
4 Plated Seastrider
1 Contaigion Engine
2 Turn Aside
1 Nihl Spellbomb
2 Strata Scyth
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Thoughts?
Edit: Voltaic Key isn't in block...
Here's an example list:
4 Argent Sphinx
4 Grand Architect
4 Myr Battlesphere
4 Palladium Myr
4 Silver Myr
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Mindslaver
4 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Volition Reins
2 Darksteel Sentinel
2 Halt Order
4 Perilous Myr
4 Plated Seastrider
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Volition Reins
I don't really like the UW variant as all I've seen it do is slow the deck down. I play UW and WBu Control, and I'm always more than happy to play against any kind of UW aggro deck.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
If it sounds like I'm talking out of my A$$ it is because I haven't tested block at all - so bear with me.
What is the sense of playing architect with only being able to tap itself or an argent sphinx for mana? It is just a better paladium myr at that point. I don't know if that decklist uses the architect to its fullest.
I think that the deck needs other blue creatures to make full use of GA. That is why I included Certarch and Thrumming bird (I know they aren't the best cards, but they get MUCH better with a GA in play or metalcraft/proliferate available) This logic makes the deck much more dependent on GA which is a weakness I know, by that is why I included more removal (disperse, Engine, cannon) so you can control until you find the GA or are late enough to hardcast threats.
Sample opening I just goldfished:
T1 Chimeric Mass for 1
T2 Thrumming Bird
T3 Trinket Mage for C Mass Proliferate 1st Mass
T4 GA Trigon with Turn Aside backup
T1 Certarch
T2 Disperse
T3 Trinket mage for Mass
T4 GA Hellkite
Not the best hand - but pretty decent. (Don't tell me about goldfishing not being valid, I'm just running through possibilities atm)
With the Myr list (Silver, paladium, battlesphere) you have no T1 drops.
Is this how the deck should curve out?
T1 Island
T2 Island Silver Myr
T3 Island Paladium Myr Silver Myr
T4 Island Wurmcoil Engine
T5 Island Architect, turn myr blue and smash
The problem with Block control at the moment is the lack of a solid early game, as well as a shaky mana base. My worst matchup's are obviously against fast aggro that actually aggro's fast.
Against Architect decks though, I just look at my options. If I can counter the architects I will, but if I have reins and revokes in hand I'll usually just let them resolve the architects and try to play their fatties.
Against Black Infect, lately I've been 50/50, surprising as I never gave the deck much credit. Oddly enough it's Volition Reins that help me the most against that deck. The trick is just keeping their low creature count even lower, Tumble Magnet is king.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Silver Myr = rampent growth
Paladium Myr = Harrow
Wurmcoil Engine = P Titan
etc...
I don't think that I like volition reigns. we need some kind of removal obviously...maybe lux cannon?
4 Silver Myr
4 Thrumming Bird
2 Paladium Myr
4 Grand architect
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Steel Hellkite
4 Stoic Rebuttle
2 Trigon of thought
2 Lux Cannon
2 Contaigion Engine
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Strata Scyth
24 Island
What do you guys think of the proliferate package (bird, engine, magnet, cannon trigon)? Strata Scyth?
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
One last question: Volition Reins against Venser decks, do you just hold onto it until they play a Venser? Taking an Elspeth seems good but they can just drop a Venser and blink her back to their side.
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Fair points, will try that.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
What was it that killed you in the matches you lost? Also, I would not play 4 hellkite. While Wurmcoil can be revoked, any other method of removing it gives you tokens. On the other hand, with Steel hellkite, a 2 mana spell kills your day, along with a simple scrapmelter. I think 1 or two is the right call.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Disperse is pretty good at allowing you to play threats and then disperse a mob back to their hand and counter it the next time.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
I recently made that exact adjustment and am happy for it. I've also been playing with Twisted Image, and I've found it has some fun application beyond just drawing cards off your Precursor Golem.
The only thing I'm still having trouble figuring out is Mindslaver. I have them, I see them in lists, but I can't quite figure out what it's really for. A 10 mana Time Walk? Something to bring in for control?
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
It's not finalized, but here's what my current incarnation looks like.
4 Grand Architect
3 Myr Battlesphere
4 Palladium Myr
4 Precursor Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Stoic Rebuttal
4 Twisted Image
2 Volition Reins
1 Trigon of Thought
24 Island
4 Perilous Myr
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Halt Order
2 Volition Reins
3 Tumble Magnet
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies