I have been messing with different decks to combat the the big three in block: venser U/W, Koth red, U Artifact. One deck that has been doing surprisingly well: Red Weenie.
The idea is to drop as many weenies as possible, and swinging with battle cry to get your opponent at 10 life or less. Once there, you use burn to finish the job.
Goblin wardriver rocks, as well as the pestermite thingy.
Typical turns:
turn 1: spikeshot elder, memnite.
turn 2: attack for 2, kuldotha rebirth, another red weenie (or the pester guy)
turn 3: attack for either 4, or with battlecry 8. (thats 10-12 damage by turn 3)
At this point you can burn them with red sun zenith, galvanic blast, or critter rush.
I'd still include Koth, if the deck is mono-Red. Unless you just don't have the copies of him, I don't see an argument against him. If nothing else, it helps you shut down an opponent's Koth. If the turn three flow you identified in your OP doesn't pan out, you could do worse than play Koth on T4.
Kuldotha Red (Block)
4 Memnite – 0 drop artifact
4 Signal Pest- 1 drop to help pump my guys
3 Goblin Wardriver- 2 drop to help pump my guys. Sometimes difficult to cast with warzone and other options.
2 Spikeshot Elder- 1 drop, can use its ability to get big and deal more damage. Helps take care of weenies.
4 Chimeric Mass- first turn rebirth target, but can also be good late game.
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge- Good finisher, but sometimes difficult to cast.
4 Perilous Myr- 2 drop, rebirth target, can help bring down Mirran Crusader/Phyrexian Crusader
2 Koth of the Hammer- Finisher, but sometimes difficult to cast and doesn’t really help tempo of game.
2 Arc Trail- Brings down weenies. Good against infect/steel
4 Galvanic Blast- only thing that can bring down Hero (w/ metalcraft)
4 Kuldotha Rebirth- Must have.
3 Pyrite Spellbomb- Rebirth target, only form of card draw, and remove a blocker to deal more damage
2 Shatter- everyone plays artifacts
18 Mountain
4 Contested Warzone- Can help win a game on its own, but if you lose the speed battle, WW gets a toy to kill you faster. Also taps into your ability to cast RR cards.
SB
2 Shatter- art hate
2 Crush- art hate
3 Act of Aggression- can be a finisher to take their best guy
3 Vulshok Refugee- Mirror
3 Surgical Extraction- Removes multiples, can remove pally, shards, planeswalkers, crusader, etc from the game. However, not very useful late game.
2 Spikeshot Elder
Other Cards that could go in:
Kuldotha Phoenix- Good finisher, but too costly and hard to come across metalcraft ability late game.
Kuldotha Flamefiend: Good late game, but very costly.
Mental Mistep: Helps take care of Marrow Shards, but not really much else besides random 1 drops.
Wellsprings: Great card draw and great rebirth targets, but useless if you can’t sac them.
Piston Sledge: Great card to pump your creatures and bring in a kill. Probably would have to make room for Wellsprings to properly play it.
Mox Opal: Rebirth target, helps bring about acceleration. But useless if you can’t get to metalcraft.
Dismember: Another form of removal, but would cost 4 life.
Hex Parasite: 1 drop that can kill Koth/Tez
Contagion Clasp: Makes Chimeric Mass bigger, rebirth target, weenie killer. Not bad for 2 mana.
Biggest Enemies:
Crusader: Once equipped with a sword, game over.
Hero: Hard to kill, usually a finisher for me.
Tempered Steel: Can’t get rid of it. Makes the artifacts huge.
Marrow Shards: Wrath at instant speed against me.
Arc Trail: Disables me.
Koth: Have to kill it quick or I lose.
Swords: Once they equip, I either destroy it or pray.
Batterskull: Can’t do anything about it, except destroy it.
Consecrated Sphinx: Nearly impossible to kill. Makes a control deck move faster, and finds them more options to kill me.
Tez: Makes their artifacts big while looking for answers. Usually not too huge of a problem if I have creatures on the board though.
Inkmoth Nexus: Land that gets huge in steel. Also steals my warzones.
Phyrexian Crusader: Can’t kill it, except with Perilous Myr.
Phyrexian Vatmother: Nearly impossible to kill. Have to have enough weenies on the board to block it while winning the damage race at the same time.
Wurmcoill Engine: 6/6 Lifelink that splits itself when you kill it? Yeah, pack your cards and go home.
Black Suns Zenith: Wrath I could see again later in the game.
Tumble Magnet: Stops my pests/wardrivers from doing their jobs.
Blade Splicer: 3/3 first strike turn 2 or 3 is hard to go up against, plus they now have two creatures.
Slagstorm: Kills everything you have, then sets up for a fourth turn Koth beating.
Anything that flies!!! Especially with war zone on the table.
That's A LOT of enemies, and I'm sure I left out even more as this list was off the top of my head! Overall, I think Big Red has more ways to answer these problems, whereas the only response Kulthoda has is to kill the opponent before they drop their bombs.
I went 2-2 with the version I just posted. Overall, it held it's own against WW, but not enought to win, going 1-2 against the deck. I'd really be interested in trying it again though. It's a fun deck to play, it's lethal, it's fast, and has an edge to be competitive. Also, who knows, maybe casting mental mistep against my opponents against their shards would have helped me win those games in which all of my creatures were killed.
Hello, getting back into Magic via MTGO (BigRed1337). Being the cheapy that I am, I decided to give Red Weenie a shot in SOM block constructed (playing Pyromancer Ascension for T2).
This has been working out better than expected and is fun to play.
My hardest decisions were the 4 Panic Spellbomb in the MB and the 4 Piston Sledge and 3 Metallic Mastery in the SB. Sometimes the Sledge just helps get the beats down faster, and has helped win a few games. Usually bring it in when going against control taking out the Spellbombs. Metallic Mastery has not really been that great, and I am considering Into the Core in its spot. It did help me steal a Spellskite and blow it up with a Rebirth. Thoughts?
Follow up: Getting crushed today by Blade Splicer and Tempered Steel.
Hello, getting back into Magic via MTGO (BigRed1337). Being the cheapy that I am, I decided to give Red Weenie a shot in SOM block constructed (playing Pyromancer Ascension for T2).
This has been working out better than expected and is fun to play.
My hardest decisions were the 4 Panic Spellbomb in the MB and the 4 Piston Sledge and 3 Metallic Mastery in the SB. Sometimes the Sledge just helps get the beats down faster, and has helped win a few games. Usually bring it in when going against control taking out the Spellbombs. Metallic Mastery has not really been that great, and I am considering Into the Core in its spot. It did help me steal a Spellskite and blow it up with a Rebirth. Thoughts?
Follow up: Getting crushed today by Blade Splicer and Tempered Steel.
Something we both had in common!
Sadly, this deck really struggles with WW. To make it really successful, I think it needs to evolve to have cards to shut down that deck. I tried out Into the Roll, but I didn't really find it THAT effective. It was just too slow. By the time I casted it, I was already below 10 life, and they had a Hero of Bladehold to run me over. I'd say it's most effective against Pally, but not really that good against Steel. Also, I'm going to try boarding in Mental Misstep for the sole purpose of having an answer to Marrow Shards.
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The idea is to drop as many weenies as possible, and swinging with battle cry to get your opponent at 10 life or less. Once there, you use burn to finish the job.
Goblin wardriver rocks, as well as the pestermite thingy.
Typical turns:
turn 1: spikeshot elder, memnite.
turn 2: attack for 2, kuldotha rebirth, another red weenie (or the pester guy)
turn 3: attack for either 4, or with battlecry 8. (thats 10-12 damage by turn 3)
At this point you can burn them with red sun zenith, galvanic blast, or critter rush.
~M
22 Mountain
4 Burn The Impure
4 Chimeric Mass
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
2 Kuldotha Ringleader
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Spikeshot Elder
4 Tumble Magnet
4 Contagion Clasp
1 Helkite Igniter
2 Metallic Mastery
4 Shatter
Kuldotha Red (Block)
4 Memnite – 0 drop artifact
4 Signal Pest- 1 drop to help pump my guys
3 Goblin Wardriver- 2 drop to help pump my guys. Sometimes difficult to cast with warzone and other options.
2 Spikeshot Elder- 1 drop, can use its ability to get big and deal more damage. Helps take care of weenies.
4 Chimeric Mass- first turn rebirth target, but can also be good late game.
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge- Good finisher, but sometimes difficult to cast.
4 Perilous Myr- 2 drop, rebirth target, can help bring down Mirran Crusader/Phyrexian Crusader
2 Koth of the Hammer- Finisher, but sometimes difficult to cast and doesn’t really help tempo of game.
2 Arc Trail- Brings down weenies. Good against infect/steel
4 Galvanic Blast- only thing that can bring down Hero (w/ metalcraft)
4 Kuldotha Rebirth- Must have.
3 Pyrite Spellbomb- Rebirth target, only form of card draw, and remove a blocker to deal more damage
2 Shatter- everyone plays artifacts
18 Mountain
4 Contested Warzone- Can help win a game on its own, but if you lose the speed battle, WW gets a toy to kill you faster. Also taps into your ability to cast RR cards.
SB
2 Shatter- art hate
2 Crush- art hate
3 Act of Aggression- can be a finisher to take their best guy
3 Vulshok Refugee- Mirror
3 Surgical Extraction- Removes multiples, can remove pally, shards, planeswalkers, crusader, etc from the game. However, not very useful late game.
2 Spikeshot Elder
Other Cards that could go in:
Kuldotha Phoenix- Good finisher, but too costly and hard to come across metalcraft ability late game.
Kuldotha Flamefiend: Good late game, but very costly.
Mental Mistep: Helps take care of Marrow Shards, but not really much else besides random 1 drops.
Wellsprings: Great card draw and great rebirth targets, but useless if you can’t sac them.
Piston Sledge: Great card to pump your creatures and bring in a kill. Probably would have to make room for Wellsprings to properly play it.
Mox Opal: Rebirth target, helps bring about acceleration. But useless if you can’t get to metalcraft.
Dismember: Another form of removal, but would cost 4 life.
Hex Parasite: 1 drop that can kill Koth/Tez
Contagion Clasp: Makes Chimeric Mass bigger, rebirth target, weenie killer. Not bad for 2 mana.
Biggest Enemies:
Crusader: Once equipped with a sword, game over.
Hero: Hard to kill, usually a finisher for me.
Tempered Steel: Can’t get rid of it. Makes the artifacts huge.
Marrow Shards: Wrath at instant speed against me.
Arc Trail: Disables me.
Koth: Have to kill it quick or I lose.
Swords: Once they equip, I either destroy it or pray.
Batterskull: Can’t do anything about it, except destroy it.
Consecrated Sphinx: Nearly impossible to kill. Makes a control deck move faster, and finds them more options to kill me.
Tez: Makes their artifacts big while looking for answers. Usually not too huge of a problem if I have creatures on the board though.
Inkmoth Nexus: Land that gets huge in steel. Also steals my warzones.
Phyrexian Crusader: Can’t kill it, except with Perilous Myr.
Phyrexian Vatmother: Nearly impossible to kill. Have to have enough weenies on the board to block it while winning the damage race at the same time.
Wurmcoill Engine: 6/6 Lifelink that splits itself when you kill it? Yeah, pack your cards and go home.
Black Suns Zenith: Wrath I could see again later in the game.
Tumble Magnet: Stops my pests/wardrivers from doing their jobs.
Blade Splicer: 3/3 first strike turn 2 or 3 is hard to go up against, plus they now have two creatures.
Slagstorm: Kills everything you have, then sets up for a fourth turn Koth beating.
Anything that flies!!! Especially with war zone on the table.
That's A LOT of enemies, and I'm sure I left out even more as this list was off the top of my head! Overall, I think Big Red has more ways to answer these problems, whereas the only response Kulthoda has is to kill the opponent before they drop their bombs.
I went 2-2 with the version I just posted. Overall, it held it's own against WW, but not enought to win, going 1-2 against the deck. I'd really be interested in trying it again though. It's a fun deck to play, it's lethal, it's fast, and has an edge to be competitive. Also, who knows, maybe casting mental mistep against my opponents against their shards would have helped me win those games in which all of my creatures were killed.
16 Mountain
4 Contested War Zone
Creatures
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Spikeshot Elder
4 Perilous Myr
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Arc Trail
Artifacts
4 Chimeric Mass
4 Panic Spellbomb
3 Metallic Mastery
4 Piston Sledge
4 Shatter
4 Burn the Impure
My hardest decisions were the 4 Panic Spellbomb in the MB and the 4 Piston Sledge and 3 Metallic Mastery in the SB. Sometimes the Sledge just helps get the beats down faster, and has helped win a few games. Usually bring it in when going against control taking out the Spellbombs. Metallic Mastery has not really been that great, and I am considering Into the Core in its spot. It did help me steal a Spellskite and blow it up with a Rebirth. Thoughts?
Follow up: Getting crushed today by Blade Splicer and Tempered Steel.
Something we both had in common!
Sadly, this deck really struggles with WW. To make it really successful, I think it needs to evolve to have cards to shut down that deck. I tried out Into the Roll, but I didn't really find it THAT effective. It was just too slow. By the time I casted it, I was already below 10 life, and they had a Hero of Bladehold to run me over. I'd say it's most effective against Pally, but not really that good against Steel. Also, I'm going to try boarding in Mental Misstep for the sole purpose of having an answer to Marrow Shards.