*Not sure where this should go but I thought since the whole set was spoiled, and since there's no reason to keep talking about ISD block anymore, that we could start with the RTR talk. Feel free to move this wherever or put it on hold if you need to, mods.* Intro
So, after we have established Jund as a deck (as described in this thread) it's time to look at what can go above it in the meta. I'm more of a control player than an aggro player (although I prefer grindy midrange strategies to either) so I'm going to go ahead and build the control list first. This is the list I've been testing:
I'll do a card-by-card analysis in a sec, but first I want to go over why I chose UWR over the other color combinations.
The first reason is that it has the best mana out of the blue-based color combinations. Having 16 dual lands is a huge boon for the deck, and allows you to focus on casting your spells rather than fixing your mana. Secondly, I wanted to have a wrath effect in my list to help keep swarms of creatures under control, and while red can Overload Mizzium Mortars in the late game, I wanted something that was cheaper and also unconditional. This lead me into white for Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere. Lastly, I chose red for the spot removal (Izzet Charm, Mizzium Mortars) and because Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius is one of the most powerful creatures in the format, capable of taking over the game single-handedly.
Grixis was also a consideration so I could have access to Dreadbore but that left me with worse mana, relying on spot removal rather than a sweeper and didn't provide much else in terms of control (Rakdos is made to be aggressive).
I love me some RUG control but again you're left with worse mana, no sweeper and only access to half of greens cards (since the other half are G/B), which really aren't that impressive.
Ok, so now that we've decided on UWR control, let's look at the individual card choices.
Lands
As previously stated the lands were one of the main reasons that I chose to go UWR. 16 dual lands is a lot and they really help the deck's consistency. The 8 Guildgates definitely slow down the deck by entering the battlefield tapped, but you make up for it by casting some of the most powerful spells in the format (even if they are a turn or so late). I'm not sure on the numbers on the basic lands but this seems to be working so far. Basically everything in the deck costs Blue so I have 5 Islands, both Red and White have "early" spells but White needs double white for Supreme Verdict while Red only needs single red for Mizzium Mortars and Izzet Charm. However you want a good amount of red in the late game for Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius activations and Overload on Mizzium Mortars, so you have to take that into consideration too. It might be possible to cut down on some Islands for more Plains and Mountains since all 16 dual lands add blue mana.
Creatures
3 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - This card is insane. Seriously. First let's look at just his base stats. A 5/5 Flyer for 6 mana is already a pretty good deal. The 5 toughness means he doesn't die to Mizzium Mortars (has been a huge deal in testing), the 6 CMC means he can't be hit by Abrupt Decay, his multicolored-ness means he's immune to Ultimate Price, and the Flying makes him hard to block/trade with. So, already we have a sizable finisher that's hard to remove/stop. Now, add in his other abilities and it's easy to see why I called him one of the best creatures in the format. If you untap with him you usually win the game. Whether you start picking off their creatures (effectively drawing cards that say "destroy target creature") or just shoot your opponent and draw actual cards, you start to pull ahead real fast. Don't forget he also draws a card when he deals combat damage to your opponent, so don't be afraid to get aggressive! This guy is everything you want from a finisher. Rating: Role-Player.
2 Angel of Serenity - Chapin's rant in this article definitely got me looking into this card more. At first I thought it was just very good. Then I realized it was even better than that! Sure, it's expensive and color intensive but it can help you come back from situations that no other card in the format could. You can remove your opponent's threats from the battlefield, Scavenge guys from their graveyard (make sure they don't have removal in hand or you have counter back up so they don't get them back to hand), a (couple) Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius from your graveyard that died earlier in the game, or even another Angel of Serenity from the grave so that you can do it all again if your first one dies. That last situation is the reason I'm running two of these since looping them gives you basically endless angels one after another while disrupting your opponents' board. I've found myself wanting to run more creatures just so I can make sure to always get value from her ability, but haven't found any others that really fit the build yet (but I'm open to suggestions!). Oh, and it's a 5/6 Flyer. Rating: Solid.
Spells
3 Azorious Charm - I actually haven't been too impressed with this card, which is why I'm only running 3, and maybe it's that it's just not right for this deck. The lifelink ability is almost never used since you have very few creatures (although when it is used it's usually very relevant). The combat ability is good for buying yourself time but it doesn't actually deal with the threat so you still need another answer for it eventually. That it can draw a card is actually what has kept it in the deck for me since if it's ever totally irrelevant, or you need lands, you can just cycle it. While this card isn't the greatest it definitely is useful and I'm not sure what I would replace it with if I were to cut it. Rating: Suspect.
4 Izzet Charm - Now this is more like it! The Spell Pierce effect is great at stopping Grisly Salvages, Jace, Architect of Thoughts, Call of the Conclaves and Detention Spheres, which are all potent threats that can put the deck on the back foot. The Shock effect, while pretty poor against Jund, will be great for gunning down creatures in some of the cheaper, more aggressive decks. The Careful Study/Faithless Looting effect, while technically card-disadvantage, can get you to whatever card you need very quickly, and allows you to pitch an Angel of Serenity early so that you can bring it back later with the other. All around very useful card. Rating: Solid.
3 Mizzium Mortars - A very efficient targeted removal spell in the early game and a very powerful sweeper in the late game. "Does it pass the Mortars test?" will be a common question you will have to ask yourself when deciding which threats to run in your decks. This is what has lead me to run Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius in this list and Deadbridge Goliath in my Jund list. I've tried from 2-4 of these and at this moment am comfortable running 3. You don't necessarily need them on turn two, and they're always fine to hold onto and use as a wrath in the late game. Rating: Solid.
2 Cyclonic Rift - It's possible that this should just be another Mizzium Mortars plus something else, but I kind of like this card. First, it only costs blue mana, and with 21 sources in the deck you'll almost always be able to cast it to buy yourself time, even if you're color screwed otherwise. Secondly, it deals with non-land permanents, not just creatures, so if you need to buy yourself some time from a Planeswalker or some kind of artifact or enchantment you can. Third, there's no power/toughness restriction so you can feel free to bounce a Desecration Demon or Deadbridge Goliath. The Overload cost is high, and they can just recast all of their stuff, but it has gotten me out of some pretty sticky situations before so it's "not nothing." Also, you can abuse the stack with your Angel of Serenity or Detention Sphere triggers to permanently exlie your opponents' stuff which, while expensive, is something to keep in mind. Rating: Suspect/Solid.
4 Chromatic Lantern - This card is sweet. It ramps you up to Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius, Angel of Serenity and Sphinx's Revelation, as well as fixes all your colors. The color fixing portion of this allows you to get the maximum number of Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius activations out of your lands as possible, be able to have triple white for Angel of Serenity and also triple red for Mizzium Mortars Overload. 4 might seem like a lot, and I could maybe see cutting one, but I can't tell you how much easier the games are when you get one of these on turn 3 than when you don't. Rating: Solid.
4 Detention Sphere - Unconditional removal that also can 2-for-1? Sign me up! Very good catch all. It's comforting to know that you have an answer in your deck for every non-land permanent your opponent could play. Rating: Solid.
4 Supreme Verdict - One of the main reasons I'm in White. Having a sweeper allows you to always be able to come back from behind and is card advantage when killing multiple creatures. Not sure how relevant the "can't be countered" clause is but just having the "destroy all creatures" portion is good enough to run it. Control decks not running this risk falling behind to multiple creatures per turn. This card is also awesome when used before dropping a Jace, Architect of Thought. Very good card to have access to. Rating: Role-Player.
4 Jace, Architect of Thought - Oh man. I know some of you don't think this guy is very good, hell I thought the same a few days ago, but let me tell you... this card is ridiculous! If you can keep the board clear he will draw you into so many cards that it will be almost impossible to lose the game. Turn 4 Supreme Verdict, turn 5 Jace, Architect of Thought -2, turn 6 anything relevant almost always wins the game. Let's take a look at his abilities.
The +1 brings him up to 5 loyalty right away, which is already a lot, and also protects himself from attackers. -1/-0 doesn't seem like much but once you start getting into game states where you drop him against 2 or 3 creatures and he lives, you start to see his +1 is more like +3 or +4. His +1 effectively gains you life (since the creatures are attacking him, at a reduced value, instead of you) and buys you time as you dig for answers. However, if you're under pressure and the attack from the creatures even with the +1 ability would kill him (or you) it might be better to use his -2 ability to dig for an answer.
His -2 is a lot better than it looks. The "worst flip" will still net you 2 lands, and the best will get you 2 good, or 1 very good, spells. You'll always be getting either what you want or be compensated for that with 2 other cards, and best of all it's YOUR choice. If you need the Supreme Justice then go ahead and take it, if you need the lands pick them instead. What does your opponent do when you flip another Jace, Architect of Thought? Either you're getting two cards or you're filling up with another Jace, both of which are fantastic! The amount of cards you get to see and choose between when using Jace, Architect of Thought is not only absurdly powerful, but fun too!
Of course how you use him will depend on the situation but on an empty board I try and -2, then +1, then -2, then +1, then -2 to kill him off, hopefully having found another one by then. Not once have I gone for the ultimate since drawing cards usually provides me with what I need. Anyways, I recommend trying Jace, Architect of Thought out before talking bad about him because he is one of the best cards in the deck (if not the best card). Rating: Role-Player Jace.
1 Sphinx's Revelation - Mise. I was always a sucker for Blue Sun's Zenith in my control decks as a one-of, since if you drew it late it secured you the game. You definitely don't want too many of these since it's very inefficient until you can invest a lot of mana into it, but I think it's always worth having one. The life gain is also relevant since you can use it mid game to draw a couple of cards and gain some life. Rating: Solid.
Sideboard
Not exactly sure what I want here yet, as we have to know the other decks to know what we need to bring in.
Counter Spells - I originally started with 3 Syncopates and a Cancel but just kept cutting them for more removal. The EtBT lands can make it so you miss your opportunity to counter a key spell so I feel having answers to things once they've hit the battlefield is more important than counters. Might fit in one Cancel just a catch all and as a way to protect Jace, Architect of Thought, although not sure what I'd cut.
Thoughtflare - I really like this card but felt like I could do without it. It might be correct to run a couple of them (maybe cutting some Azorious Charms) to give me some card draw late game to find my threats.
Anything else I left out? Let me know.
Conclusion
Ok, so now we have a control deck to go along with our midrange strategy. This deck has a great match up versus Jund which means either I have to revise my Jund list (which is possible) or that this deck is just that good. We'll have to wait and see I guess and I look forward to hearing from you guys and seeing what you've come up with. Please be as constructive as possible with your criticisms and give some thought into your posts. Happy brewing season!
EDIT: If anyone wants to test on Magic Workstation PM me and we'll set something up.
Thanks for the block decks! I am thinking of going into block constructed this season. By just looking at the spoilers I thought UW control will be a viable archetype in this format.
Red obviously adds a lot of great cards but I am not sure if it is worth the sacrifice on tempo and stability. 8 of the lands are going to come into play tapped 100% of the time, this will be a problem against faster decks.
Your deck is built to fight creature heavy strategies. It has 10+ removal spells I think it is a bit excessive.
What is your take on between UW control and this deck?
Thanks for the block decks! I am thinking of going into block constructed this season. By just looking at the spoilers I thought UW control will be a viable archetype in this format.
Red obviously adds a lot of great cards but I am not sure if it is worth the sacrifice on tempo and stability. 8 of the lands are going to come into play tapped 100% of the time, this will be a problem against faster decks.
Your deck is built to fight creature heavy strategies. It has 10+ removal spells I think it is a bit excessive.
What is your take on between UW control and this deck?
So, technically you're only getting 4 more lands that enter the battlefield tapped (since in the UW build you'd still run Azorious Guildgate), which isn't too much of a sacrifice to gain access to the red cards.
You say that too many tapped lands will be a problem against faster decks, then say that I have too much removal - which seem to contradict each other a bit. If I'm going to be a little slow then I need more removal to catch back up.
In regards to the amount of removal, it may be too much but I really expect the major decks to be Jund, GWx midrange, some kind of Rakdos aggro and then other control decks. Although lots of removal is bad versus control, Jund, GWx and Rakdos require you to run a lot of cheap, reactive removal. I'd rather have too much removal and catch back up later with Jace, Architect of Thought and Sphinx's Revelation than just die in the early game to a heavy creature draw.
As for having red in the deck at all, what exactly would you replace the red cards with? I'm sure the obvious swaps would be Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius for Isperia, Supreme Judge but, like I said in the OP, she dies to Mizzium Mortars and Auger Spree and is a lot worse since you need to be under assault for you to get value from her, which is not where you want to be with your finisher. You could maybe add more Angel of Serenitys but do you really want more 7 drops? Sometimes it's a turn too late, sometimes it's multiple turns too late (since the step from 6 to 7 mana isn't exactly linear). So what other cards could you run that even compare favorably to Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius? I can't think of any.
What would you replace Izzet Charm and Mizzium Mortars with? One way to go would be adding counter spells but against creature decks they're just bad removal, since you only have one chance to counter it, while you can draw spot removal later and still deal with the threat. Izzet Charm helps in both the creature and control match ups by either removing threats or countering spells.
I've gone over the spoiler many times and I just can't find any blue, white or blue-white cards that would be upgrades over the red cards in the deck. Sure, the mana is a little worse but I think the hit to consistency is definitely made up for in terms of raw power.
However, if you could maybe suggest some cards or provide a test list then maybe I could be convinced otherwise.
a good read i say i like this deck and the thought process behind it. I would probably use this as a starter to build a block deck
Ya, it's been testing really well so far.
I actually ended up building a straight UW control deck at the request of Ahorsefish and I'm honestly not sure which is better. While UWR has more "control" and removal, the UW deck makes up for its weaker earlier turn plays with a huge end game comprised of 4 Angel of Serenitys and 3 Sphinx's Revelation. So instead of 1 for 1ing your opponent with early game removal you ramp out an Angel (4 Azorious Keyrune and 2 Chromatic Lantern) and then 3 for 1 them. If they deal with that then you can draw a ton of cards with a Revelation while they're busy recasting their threats, hopefully drawing you into a wrath or another Angel. Then rinse and repeat and win eventually. Here's the list:
At first I went UWr because it had the most removal and I'm of the opinion that as long as the game goes long, and you don't die early, you should win. While this is true I realized that Izzet Charm is pretty bad in Control match ups (since you both aren't doing anything they have plenty of time to play around the Spell Pierce effect) and the Shock option is pretty weak except against Rakdos Aggro (bad against Jund and most GW creatures are X/3 or X/4). While Mizzium Mortars is very good againsty GW and Rakdos, it's pretty mediocre versus Jund and Control, and you can just beat all the aggro/midrange decks by ramping into Angel of Serenity.
So, I realized I won every game that I resolved an Angel so I set out to make the best Angel of Serenity deck in the format. I didn't think I needed any other colors because all I wanted to do was resolve an Angel as consistently and as quickly as possible. That lead me to run 4 Azorius Keyrunes and 2 Chromatic Lanterns as ramp so I could power out an Angel as fast as possible. Since I had decided on this ramp, and I wanted to find my Angel as fast as possible, I went up to 3 Sphinx's Revelations which helped smooth out my draws even when only used for a few cards (only need to find lands and Angels). The rest of the deck just stalled and dug towards lands and Angels and then took over once an Angel came down.
So, Angel of Serenity destroys all the aggro/midrange decks in the format which leaves... Angel of Serenity decks! Now it's time to be the best anti-Angel of SerenityAngel of Serenity deck lol. I realized the best way to stop your opponent from looping their Angels is to kill the Angel with their trigger on the stack, and therefore forever exile their other Angel. There's not a ton of instant speed removal in the format that kills Angel of Serenity, and Ultimate Price and Selesnya Charm are the only reasonable ones.
So I could splash Green or Black and decided on Green for a number of reasons. First and foremost is because you get to run Armada Wurm which is itself an awesome threat, combos well with your Angel of Serenitys (exile the Armada Wurm and keep the token) and also good against opponents Angels (exiling both the Wurm and the token takes up two targets so they can't grab too many of their own threats from the graveyard). Also Selesnya Charm exiles their Angel so that it can't be rebought later. Not to mention the Soldier effect can be used for ambushing attacking creatures, defending your Jace, Architect of Thought and pressuring your opponent's Jace.
While the mana is a little worse (don't want to run Selesnya Guildgate because you really need your 3rd land untapped to drop a mana rock and always want to hit your 6th/7th mana untapped so you can drop Wurm/Angel), I think it's worth it to be better against what I believe will ultimately be the best decks.
You also can now sideboard in Centaur Healers if Rakdos rises in popularity to try and kill you before you drop an Angel, and Sundering Growth to destroy opposing Detention Spheres and Keyrunes/Lanterns from the other control decks.
One thing you have to watch out for is Slaughter Games out of the Jund/Rakdos sideboards naming Angel of Serenity. This means you might want to go up to 4 copies of Armada Wurm main deck/after sideboard and probably want another threat to bring in as well (although all the other finishers suck). Slaughter Games definitely seems pretty bad for us and if anyone has any ideas on how to combat this effectively I'd love to hear it.
If you have any questions or comments about my read of the meta then please feel free to ask, maybe I'm wrong!
Just got into Pauper while I wait for RTR so been really busy playing and tuning my UR Post list. However, I still want to work on this deck so I know what I should purchase when the set is released online.
Paul, there are some things I like about your list and some that I'm not too keen on. First, I think maybe staying UW for the consistency is the way to go (and cheaper lol). While Selesnya Charm is good at exiling Angel of Serenity so is Syncopate, and Syncopate is good a vast majority of the time since you have a lot of mana and instant speed card draw. I also think Azorius Keyrune will be key (pun!) in the mirror so it's best to load up on those.
What I don't like however is your creature selection. I think New Prahv Guildmage is too low impact to be included in the deck. I'd rather run another removal spell or card draw spell to get us closer to Angel of Serenity since that's the only card that really matters. Secondly, I think Archon of the Triumvirate is garbage. Now, I have yet to play with him, and I'm open to hearing about your experience with him, but he just seems like a 7 mana do nothing. With Sphinx of the Chimes you at least get some late game super-cycling (not to mention he costs 6), while Archon can be in play for multiple turns and accomplish nothing. I mean sure you can delay by Detaining some stuff, but you're not actually dealing with the threats and once he dies your opponent starts beating again. Now I know this deck is all about delaying until you can drop an Angel, but I'd rather have Sphinx is almost every situation. My two cents, anyways. I also think you need at least one Sphinx's Revelation in the main deck, especially if you're running Syncopate (can draw cards if you don't end up countering anything).
Next time we test i'll show you how good the Archon of the Triumvirate is lol, it's won me loads of game getting the last bits of damage through, it can attack into two desecration demon's and still deal 4 damage and then you don't have to worry about them attacking you back next turn even if they kill the archon.
So why don't you just run more ramp and card draw and drop a Angel of Serenity instead? It does the same thing but better. Like I said previously, the Archon doesn't help you stabilize, it just delays things. If he immediately dies (or even many turns later) it's possible that you've accomplished nothing with him and will lose anyways. I want to give more reasons than that but that's the gist of it.. he just doesn't do anything for you.
I know that the New Prahv Guildmage is nothing to scream home about but it does two important things.
1st, it gives you an early board presence against the fast decks a blocker to trade with and can even be the beat down with the azorius keyrune. (quickly taking 10 life out of other control deck's before they know what's happened)
2nd, it eat's removal if your opponent dreadbore's,mizzium mortas or even uses an abrupt decay on this your happy because its one less removal for the rest of your really important cards to worry about.
I even thought about putting a 3rd main deck but can't bring myself to take anything out.
Why do you need a board presence in the early game? Why not just run another Detention Sphere or other piece of removal if it's just going to be used as a blocker? Even Inaction Injunction draws you a card so you can dig to Supreme Verdict or some ramp for Angel. Sure, you might be able to do some quick damage to a control deck but then they'll just beat you with all their late game spells that they have over the Guildmage (Sphinx's Revelation undoes the damage and out cards you). What deck would waste a removal spell on that creature when they know you have Angel of Serenity in your deck? If it's a control deck then again, they don't really care about a 2/2 beater, and against Jund or aggro they'll just attack into it so you'll block, or if they do remove it it's because they plan on killing you soon thereafter. Mizzium Mortars hits nothing in my deck so that just gives them a target game 1, they'll save Abrupt Decay for Detention Spheres or Azorius Keyrunes, and Dreadbore, like I said, will be saved for Angel of Serenity or Jace, Architect of Thought. While New Prahv Guildmage sounds good in theory (not even then, actually) I don't think it's at all where this deck wants to go.
I love me a Sphinx's Revelation, I do but I've just not needed it, again I just don't know what to take out of the main board, I'm sure when more people start testing it will evolve faster.
Sphinx's Revelation might be the second best card in my deck (after Angel of Serenity) since it just does so much. The life gain undoes some of the damage you've taken in the early game (better than a blocking guildmage probably), and if you're getting overwhelmed helps you dig for whatever it is you need (Supreme Verdict, Detention Sphere or Angel of Serenity). I know this term gets thrown around a lot, but the life gain is almost like a "Time Walk" in that you can afford to use a whole turn casting it against aggro because the life you gain sometimes undoes the damage they did that turn. Resolving this card late game (X > 5) basically ends the game right there putting the game out of reach due to the life gain and also gives you so many cards to deal with any lingering threats. Since you're running the ramp to get Angel of Serenity out quickly anyways, this card is, in my opinion, a must.
Oh yeah Sphinx of the Chimes lol, man I don't see this ever drawing me cards, which cards would you want to discard ? (if you had two), if in the really really really late game you have 3 angel's in your hand(which is possible) you could discard two of them then buy them back but that seems very narrow, the only thing this sphinx has in it's favour is it can block a wurm.
Sphinx of the Chimes is actually a lot better than he looks. First, he's just a 5/6 Flyer for 6 mana. Sometimes you haven't ramped a lot (or missing colors for your Angel) and just need to drop a creature to stabilize, and this is one of the best sized bodies to do so. Secondly, his synergy with Sphinx's Revelation is not to be overlooked. If you ever need to you can cast a large Sphinx's Revelation and then "go off" by discarding excess Supreme Verdicts (if you're ahead on board), mana rocks, Azorius Charms, or whatever else that is useless, hopefully drawing you into some Angel of Serenitys to end the game shortly thereafter. It may seem "win more" but it's a useful ability tacked on to an already decent body, so there's little to no opportunity cost. The fact that he can block Armada Wurm, as you said, is very relevant as I believe that card will see a lot of play.
There are a couple of sideboard card's I'd like to mention that have been pulling their weight firstly palisade giant is a brick wall against aggro, it trades with everything and stabilizes your board instantly, Isperia, Supreme Judge is another awesome card out of the sideboard against control deck and a lot of aggro deck will side out their mizzium mortas when they realize you don't have that many creatures, it can race opponent's, in 3 attack there dead and with a keyrune you can have it in play turn 5.
Why do you need Palisade Giant when you could ramp to, and dig to, a Angel of Serenity? It does about the same thing while being better against removal. Also, there's not a lot of burn in the format (1 card?) so he'd only be preventing combat damage which the Angel stops by getting rid of guys. The Giant doesn't stabilize your board as much as it just puts it in stasis. Angel of Serenity actually moves towards stabilizing because it builds an advantage that's hard for your opponent to come back from.
Again, same thing with Isperia, Supreme Judge - it's just a worse Angel of Serenity. Instead of drawing cards when your opponent attacks you, you cast Angel and basically draw 3 cards that say "destroy target creature" right away. As for your opponent siding out Mizzium Mortars, they side it out because it doesn't hit any of your creatures... so how is this a benefit over Angel or Sphinx?
Isperia still takes 4 hits to kill (unless you get in a Keyrune attack) which is the same amount as the other creatures, and the difference between 3 and 4 turns is negligible if you've cast a 6/7 drop creature, and have the luxury of being in the position to be able to be attacking with it.
I don't mean to be an ass (really, I don't), but I just don't see a benefit to your list over a dedicated Angel of Serenity deck. It's somewhat better (maybe?) in the early game but is quickly outclassed in the late game, which is what control decks are trying to get to and take advantage of. I'm sure more testing will show which list is better though. Again, I'm not trying to put you down (you've shown your ability in deck building in the Jund thread), but I just don't think that your list uses the most powerful Blue and White spells to their full potential, which yields a suboptimal deck list. Look forward to hearing from you (and anyone else) about about this.
Intro
So, after we have established Jund as a deck (as described in this thread) it's time to look at what can go above it in the meta. I'm more of a control player than an aggro player (although I prefer grindy midrange strategies to either) so I'm going to go ahead and build the control list first. This is the list I've been testing:
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorious Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
5 Island
3 Plains
2 Mountain
3 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
2 Angel of Serenity
Spells (29)
3 Azorious Charm
4 Izzet Charm
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Chromatic Lantern
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Sphinx's Revelation
I'll do a card-by-card analysis in a sec, but first I want to go over why I chose UWR over the other color combinations.
The first reason is that it has the best mana out of the blue-based color combinations. Having 16 dual lands is a huge boon for the deck, and allows you to focus on casting your spells rather than fixing your mana. Secondly, I wanted to have a wrath effect in my list to help keep swarms of creatures under control, and while red can Overload Mizzium Mortars in the late game, I wanted something that was cheaper and also unconditional. This lead me into white for Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere. Lastly, I chose red for the spot removal (Izzet Charm, Mizzium Mortars) and because Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius is one of the most powerful creatures in the format, capable of taking over the game single-handedly.
Grixis was also a consideration so I could have access to Dreadbore but that left me with worse mana, relying on spot removal rather than a sweeper and didn't provide much else in terms of control (Rakdos is made to be aggressive).
I love me some RUG control but again you're left with worse mana, no sweeper and only access to half of greens cards (since the other half are G/B), which really aren't that impressive.
Ok, so now that we've decided on UWR control, let's look at the individual card choices.
Lands
As previously stated the lands were one of the main reasons that I chose to go UWR. 16 dual lands is a lot and they really help the deck's consistency. The 8 Guildgates definitely slow down the deck by entering the battlefield tapped, but you make up for it by casting some of the most powerful spells in the format (even if they are a turn or so late). I'm not sure on the numbers on the basic lands but this seems to be working so far. Basically everything in the deck costs Blue so I have 5 Islands, both Red and White have "early" spells but White needs double white for Supreme Verdict while Red only needs single red for Mizzium Mortars and Izzet Charm. However you want a good amount of red in the late game for Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius activations and Overload on Mizzium Mortars, so you have to take that into consideration too. It might be possible to cut down on some Islands for more Plains and Mountains since all 16 dual lands add blue mana.
Creatures
3 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - This card is insane. Seriously. First let's look at just his base stats. A 5/5 Flyer for 6 mana is already a pretty good deal. The 5 toughness means he doesn't die to Mizzium Mortars (has been a huge deal in testing), the 6 CMC means he can't be hit by Abrupt Decay, his multicolored-ness means he's immune to Ultimate Price, and the Flying makes him hard to block/trade with. So, already we have a sizable finisher that's hard to remove/stop. Now, add in his other abilities and it's easy to see why I called him one of the best creatures in the format. If you untap with him you usually win the game. Whether you start picking off their creatures (effectively drawing cards that say "destroy target creature") or just shoot your opponent and draw actual cards, you start to pull ahead real fast. Don't forget he also draws a card when he deals combat damage to your opponent, so don't be afraid to get aggressive! This guy is everything you want from a finisher. Rating: Role-Player.
2 Angel of Serenity - Chapin's rant in this article definitely got me looking into this card more. At first I thought it was just very good. Then I realized it was even better than that! Sure, it's expensive and color intensive but it can help you come back from situations that no other card in the format could. You can remove your opponent's threats from the battlefield, Scavenge guys from their graveyard (make sure they don't have removal in hand or you have counter back up so they don't get them back to hand), a (couple) Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius from your graveyard that died earlier in the game, or even another Angel of Serenity from the grave so that you can do it all again if your first one dies. That last situation is the reason I'm running two of these since looping them gives you basically endless angels one after another while disrupting your opponents' board. I've found myself wanting to run more creatures just so I can make sure to always get value from her ability, but haven't found any others that really fit the build yet (but I'm open to suggestions!). Oh, and it's a 5/6 Flyer. Rating: Solid.
Spells
3 Azorious Charm - I actually haven't been too impressed with this card, which is why I'm only running 3, and maybe it's that it's just not right for this deck. The lifelink ability is almost never used since you have very few creatures (although when it is used it's usually very relevant). The combat ability is good for buying yourself time but it doesn't actually deal with the threat so you still need another answer for it eventually. That it can draw a card is actually what has kept it in the deck for me since if it's ever totally irrelevant, or you need lands, you can just cycle it. While this card isn't the greatest it definitely is useful and I'm not sure what I would replace it with if I were to cut it. Rating: Suspect.
4 Izzet Charm - Now this is more like it! The Spell Pierce effect is great at stopping Grisly Salvages, Jace, Architect of Thoughts, Call of the Conclaves and Detention Spheres, which are all potent threats that can put the deck on the back foot. The Shock effect, while pretty poor against Jund, will be great for gunning down creatures in some of the cheaper, more aggressive decks. The Careful Study/Faithless Looting effect, while technically card-disadvantage, can get you to whatever card you need very quickly, and allows you to pitch an Angel of Serenity early so that you can bring it back later with the other. All around very useful card. Rating: Solid.
3 Mizzium Mortars - A very efficient targeted removal spell in the early game and a very powerful sweeper in the late game. "Does it pass the Mortars test?" will be a common question you will have to ask yourself when deciding which threats to run in your decks. This is what has lead me to run Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius in this list and Deadbridge Goliath in my Jund list. I've tried from 2-4 of these and at this moment am comfortable running 3. You don't necessarily need them on turn two, and they're always fine to hold onto and use as a wrath in the late game. Rating: Solid.
2 Cyclonic Rift - It's possible that this should just be another Mizzium Mortars plus something else, but I kind of like this card. First, it only costs blue mana, and with 21 sources in the deck you'll almost always be able to cast it to buy yourself time, even if you're color screwed otherwise. Secondly, it deals with non-land permanents, not just creatures, so if you need to buy yourself some time from a Planeswalker or some kind of artifact or enchantment you can. Third, there's no power/toughness restriction so you can feel free to bounce a Desecration Demon or Deadbridge Goliath. The Overload cost is high, and they can just recast all of their stuff, but it has gotten me out of some pretty sticky situations before so it's "not nothing." Also, you can abuse the stack with your Angel of Serenity or Detention Sphere triggers to permanently exlie your opponents' stuff which, while expensive, is something to keep in mind. Rating: Suspect/Solid.
4 Chromatic Lantern - This card is sweet. It ramps you up to Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius, Angel of Serenity and Sphinx's Revelation, as well as fixes all your colors. The color fixing portion of this allows you to get the maximum number of Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius activations out of your lands as possible, be able to have triple white for Angel of Serenity and also triple red for Mizzium Mortars Overload. 4 might seem like a lot, and I could maybe see cutting one, but I can't tell you how much easier the games are when you get one of these on turn 3 than when you don't. Rating: Solid.
4 Detention Sphere - Unconditional removal that also can 2-for-1? Sign me up! Very good catch all. It's comforting to know that you have an answer in your deck for every non-land permanent your opponent could play. Rating: Solid.
4 Supreme Verdict - One of the main reasons I'm in White. Having a sweeper allows you to always be able to come back from behind and is card advantage when killing multiple creatures. Not sure how relevant the "can't be countered" clause is but just having the "destroy all creatures" portion is good enough to run it. Control decks not running this risk falling behind to multiple creatures per turn. This card is also awesome when used before dropping a Jace, Architect of Thought. Very good card to have access to. Rating: Role-Player.
4 Jace, Architect of Thought - Oh man. I know some of you don't think this guy is very good, hell I thought the same a few days ago, but let me tell you... this card is ridiculous! If you can keep the board clear he will draw you into so many cards that it will be almost impossible to lose the game. Turn 4 Supreme Verdict, turn 5 Jace, Architect of Thought -2, turn 6 anything relevant almost always wins the game. Let's take a look at his abilities.
The +1 brings him up to 5 loyalty right away, which is already a lot, and also protects himself from attackers. -1/-0 doesn't seem like much but once you start getting into game states where you drop him against 2 or 3 creatures and he lives, you start to see his +1 is more like +3 or +4. His +1 effectively gains you life (since the creatures are attacking him, at a reduced value, instead of you) and buys you time as you dig for answers. However, if you're under pressure and the attack from the creatures even with the +1 ability would kill him (or you) it might be better to use his -2 ability to dig for an answer.
His -2 is a lot better than it looks. The "worst flip" will still net you 2 lands, and the best will get you 2 good, or 1 very good, spells. You'll always be getting either what you want or be compensated for that with 2 other cards, and best of all it's YOUR choice. If you need the Supreme Justice then go ahead and take it, if you need the lands pick them instead. What does your opponent do when you flip another Jace, Architect of Thought? Either you're getting two cards or you're filling up with another Jace, both of which are fantastic! The amount of cards you get to see and choose between when using Jace, Architect of Thought is not only absurdly powerful, but fun too!
Of course how you use him will depend on the situation but on an empty board I try and -2, then +1, then -2, then +1, then -2 to kill him off, hopefully having found another one by then. Not once have I gone for the ultimate since drawing cards usually provides me with what I need. Anyways, I recommend trying Jace, Architect of Thought out before talking bad about him because he is one of the best cards in the deck (if not the best card). Rating:
Role-PlayerJace.1 Sphinx's Revelation - Mise. I was always a sucker for Blue Sun's Zenith in my control decks as a one-of, since if you drew it late it secured you the game. You definitely don't want too many of these since it's very inefficient until you can invest a lot of mana into it, but I think it's always worth having one. The life gain is also relevant since you can use it mid game to draw a couple of cards and gain some life. Rating: Solid.
Sideboard
Not exactly sure what I want here yet, as we have to know the other decks to know what we need to bring in.
Notable Omissions
Isperia, Supreme Judge - Dies to Mizzium Mortars (seriously). That, plus Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius is basically the same card but better. I originally had her in the deck but was very underwhelmed.
Counter Spells - I originally started with 3 Syncopates and a Cancel but just kept cutting them for more removal. The EtBT lands can make it so you miss your opportunity to counter a key spell so I feel having answers to things once they've hit the battlefield is more important than counters. Might fit in one Cancel just a catch all and as a way to protect Jace, Architect of Thought, although not sure what I'd cut.
Thoughtflare - I really like this card but felt like I could do without it. It might be correct to run a couple of them (maybe cutting some Azorious Charms) to give me some card draw late game to find my threats.
Anything else I left out? Let me know.
Conclusion
Ok, so now we have a control deck to go along with our midrange strategy. This deck has a great match up versus Jund which means either I have to revise my Jund list (which is possible) or that this deck is just that good. We'll have to wait and see I guess and I look forward to hearing from you guys and seeing what you've come up with. Please be as constructive as possible with your criticisms and give some thought into your posts. Happy brewing season!
EDIT: If anyone wants to test on Magic Workstation PM me and we'll set something up.
Red obviously adds a lot of great cards but I am not sure if it is worth the sacrifice on tempo and stability. 8 of the lands are going to come into play tapped 100% of the time, this will be a problem against faster decks.
Your deck is built to fight creature heavy strategies. It has 10+ removal spells I think it is a bit excessive.
What is your take on between UW control and this deck?
So, technically you're only getting 4 more lands that enter the battlefield tapped (since in the UW build you'd still run Azorious Guildgate), which isn't too much of a sacrifice to gain access to the red cards.
You say that too many tapped lands will be a problem against faster decks, then say that I have too much removal - which seem to contradict each other a bit. If I'm going to be a little slow then I need more removal to catch back up.
In regards to the amount of removal, it may be too much but I really expect the major decks to be Jund, GWx midrange, some kind of Rakdos aggro and then other control decks. Although lots of removal is bad versus control, Jund, GWx and Rakdos require you to run a lot of cheap, reactive removal. I'd rather have too much removal and catch back up later with Jace, Architect of Thought and Sphinx's Revelation than just die in the early game to a heavy creature draw.
As for having red in the deck at all, what exactly would you replace the red cards with? I'm sure the obvious swaps would be Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius for Isperia, Supreme Judge but, like I said in the OP, she dies to Mizzium Mortars and Auger Spree and is a lot worse since you need to be under assault for you to get value from her, which is not where you want to be with your finisher. You could maybe add more Angel of Serenitys but do you really want more 7 drops? Sometimes it's a turn too late, sometimes it's multiple turns too late (since the step from 6 to 7 mana isn't exactly linear). So what other cards could you run that even compare favorably to Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius? I can't think of any.
What would you replace Izzet Charm and Mizzium Mortars with? One way to go would be adding counter spells but against creature decks they're just bad removal, since you only have one chance to counter it, while you can draw spot removal later and still deal with the threat. Izzet Charm helps in both the creature and control match ups by either removing threats or countering spells.
I've gone over the spoiler many times and I just can't find any blue, white or blue-white cards that would be upgrades over the red cards in the deck. Sure, the mana is a little worse but I think the hit to consistency is definitely made up for in terms of raw power.
However, if you could maybe suggest some cards or provide a test list then maybe I could be convinced otherwise.
Ya, it's been testing really well so far.
I actually ended up building a straight UW control deck at the request of Ahorsefish and I'm honestly not sure which is better. While UWR has more "control" and removal, the UW deck makes up for its weaker earlier turn plays with a huge end game comprised of 4 Angel of Serenitys and 3 Sphinx's Revelation. So instead of 1 for 1ing your opponent with early game removal you ramp out an Angel (4 Azorious Keyrune and 2 Chromatic Lantern) and then 3 for 1 them. If they deal with that then you can draw a ton of cards with a Revelation while they're busy recasting their threats, hopefully drawing you into a wrath or another Angel. Then rinse and repeat and win eventually. Here's the list:
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorious Guildgate
10 Island
8 Plains
Creatures
2 Sphinx of the Chimes
4 Angel of Serenity
4 Azorious Charm
2 Inaction Injunction
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Detention Sphere
4 Azorious Keyrune
2 Chromatic Lantern
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Sphinx's Revelation
UWr
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorious Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
5 Island
3 Plains
2 Mountain
3 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
2 Angel of Serenity
Spells (29)
3 Azorious Charm
4 Izzet Charm
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Chromatic Lantern
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Sphinx's Revelation
At first I went UWr because it had the most removal and I'm of the opinion that as long as the game goes long, and you don't die early, you should win. While this is true I realized that Izzet Charm is pretty bad in Control match ups (since you both aren't doing anything they have plenty of time to play around the Spell Pierce effect) and the Shock option is pretty weak except against Rakdos Aggro (bad against Jund and most GW creatures are X/3 or X/4). While Mizzium Mortars is very good againsty GW and Rakdos, it's pretty mediocre versus Jund and Control, and you can just beat all the aggro/midrange decks by ramping into Angel of Serenity.
UW
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorious Guildgate
10 Island
8 Plains
Creatures (6)
2 Sphinx of the Chimes
4 Angel of Serenity
4 Azorious Charm
2 Inaction Injunction
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Detention Sphere
4 Azorius Keyrune
2 Chromatic Lantern
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Sphinx's Revelation
So, I realized I won every game that I resolved an Angel so I set out to make the best Angel of Serenity deck in the format. I didn't think I needed any other colors because all I wanted to do was resolve an Angel as consistently and as quickly as possible. That lead me to run 4 Azorius Keyrunes and 2 Chromatic Lanterns as ramp so I could power out an Angel as fast as possible. Since I had decided on this ramp, and I wanted to find my Angel as fast as possible, I went up to 3 Sphinx's Revelations which helped smooth out my draws even when only used for a few cards (only need to find lands and Angels). The rest of the deck just stalled and dug towards lands and Angels and then took over once an Angel came down.
UWg
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Azorious Guildgate
5 Island
6 Plains
3 Forest
3 Armada Wurm
4 Angel of Serenity
Spells (27)
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Selesnya Charm
4 Detention Sphere
2 Azorius Keyrune
4 Chromatic Lantern
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Seek the Horizon
3 Sphinx's Revelation
So, Angel of Serenity destroys all the aggro/midrange decks in the format which leaves... Angel of Serenity decks! Now it's time to be the best anti-Angel of Serenity Angel of Serenity deck lol. I realized the best way to stop your opponent from looping their Angels is to kill the Angel with their trigger on the stack, and therefore forever exile their other Angel. There's not a ton of instant speed removal in the format that kills Angel of Serenity, and Ultimate Price and Selesnya Charm are the only reasonable ones.
So I could splash Green or Black and decided on Green for a number of reasons. First and foremost is because you get to run Armada Wurm which is itself an awesome threat, combos well with your Angel of Serenitys (exile the Armada Wurm and keep the token) and also good against opponents Angels (exiling both the Wurm and the token takes up two targets so they can't grab too many of their own threats from the graveyard). Also Selesnya Charm exiles their Angel so that it can't be rebought later. Not to mention the Soldier effect can be used for ambushing attacking creatures, defending your Jace, Architect of Thought and pressuring your opponent's Jace.
While the mana is a little worse (don't want to run Selesnya Guildgate because you really need your 3rd land untapped to drop a mana rock and always want to hit your 6th/7th mana untapped so you can drop Wurm/Angel), I think it's worth it to be better against what I believe will ultimately be the best decks.
You also can now sideboard in Centaur Healers if Rakdos rises in popularity to try and kill you before you drop an Angel, and Sundering Growth to destroy opposing Detention Spheres and Keyrunes/Lanterns from the other control decks.
One thing you have to watch out for is Slaughter Games out of the Jund/Rakdos sideboards naming Angel of Serenity. This means you might want to go up to 4 copies of Armada Wurm main deck/after sideboard and probably want another threat to bring in as well (although all the other finishers suck). Slaughter Games definitely seems pretty bad for us and if anyone has any ideas on how to combat this effectively I'd love to hear it.
If you have any questions or comments about my read of the meta then please feel free to ask, maybe I'm wrong!
Paul, there are some things I like about your list and some that I'm not too keen on. First, I think maybe staying UW for the consistency is the way to go (and cheaper lol). While Selesnya Charm is good at exiling Angel of Serenity so is Syncopate, and Syncopate is good a vast majority of the time since you have a lot of mana and instant speed card draw. I also think Azorius Keyrune will be key (pun!) in the mirror so it's best to load up on those.
What I don't like however is your creature selection. I think New Prahv Guildmage is too low impact to be included in the deck. I'd rather run another removal spell or card draw spell to get us closer to Angel of Serenity since that's the only card that really matters. Secondly, I think Archon of the Triumvirate is garbage. Now, I have yet to play with him, and I'm open to hearing about your experience with him, but he just seems like a 7 mana do nothing. With Sphinx of the Chimes you at least get some late game super-cycling (not to mention he costs 6), while Archon can be in play for multiple turns and accomplish nothing. I mean sure you can delay by Detaining some stuff, but you're not actually dealing with the threats and once he dies your opponent starts beating again. Now I know this deck is all about delaying until you can drop an Angel, but I'd rather have Sphinx is almost every situation. My two cents, anyways. I also think you need at least one Sphinx's Revelation in the main deck, especially if you're running Syncopate (can draw cards if you don't end up countering anything).
So why don't you just run more ramp and card draw and drop a Angel of Serenity instead? It does the same thing but better. Like I said previously, the Archon doesn't help you stabilize, it just delays things. If he immediately dies (or even many turns later) it's possible that you've accomplished nothing with him and will lose anyways. I want to give more reasons than that but that's the gist of it.. he just doesn't do anything for you.
Why do you need a board presence in the early game? Why not just run another Detention Sphere or other piece of removal if it's just going to be used as a blocker? Even Inaction Injunction draws you a card so you can dig to Supreme Verdict or some ramp for Angel. Sure, you might be able to do some quick damage to a control deck but then they'll just beat you with all their late game spells that they have over the Guildmage (Sphinx's Revelation undoes the damage and out cards you). What deck would waste a removal spell on that creature when they know you have Angel of Serenity in your deck? If it's a control deck then again, they don't really care about a 2/2 beater, and against Jund or aggro they'll just attack into it so you'll block, or if they do remove it it's because they plan on killing you soon thereafter. Mizzium Mortars hits nothing in my deck so that just gives them a target game 1, they'll save Abrupt Decay for Detention Spheres or Azorius Keyrunes, and Dreadbore, like I said, will be saved for Angel of Serenity or Jace, Architect of Thought. While New Prahv Guildmage sounds good in theory (not even then, actually) I don't think it's at all where this deck wants to go.
Sphinx's Revelation might be the second best card in my deck (after Angel of Serenity) since it just does so much. The life gain undoes some of the damage you've taken in the early game (better than a blocking guildmage probably), and if you're getting overwhelmed helps you dig for whatever it is you need (Supreme Verdict, Detention Sphere or Angel of Serenity). I know this term gets thrown around a lot, but the life gain is almost like a "Time Walk" in that you can afford to use a whole turn casting it against aggro because the life you gain sometimes undoes the damage they did that turn. Resolving this card late game (X > 5) basically ends the game right there putting the game out of reach due to the life gain and also gives you so many cards to deal with any lingering threats. Since you're running the ramp to get Angel of Serenity out quickly anyways, this card is, in my opinion, a must.
Sphinx of the Chimes is actually a lot better than he looks. First, he's just a 5/6 Flyer for 6 mana. Sometimes you haven't ramped a lot (or missing colors for your Angel) and just need to drop a creature to stabilize, and this is one of the best sized bodies to do so. Secondly, his synergy with Sphinx's Revelation is not to be overlooked. If you ever need to you can cast a large Sphinx's Revelation and then "go off" by discarding excess Supreme Verdicts (if you're ahead on board), mana rocks, Azorius Charms, or whatever else that is useless, hopefully drawing you into some Angel of Serenitys to end the game shortly thereafter. It may seem "win more" but it's a useful ability tacked on to an already decent body, so there's little to no opportunity cost. The fact that he can block Armada Wurm, as you said, is very relevant as I believe that card will see a lot of play.
Why do you need Palisade Giant when you could ramp to, and dig to, a Angel of Serenity? It does about the same thing while being better against removal. Also, there's not a lot of burn in the format (1 card?) so he'd only be preventing combat damage which the Angel stops by getting rid of guys. The Giant doesn't stabilize your board as much as it just puts it in stasis. Angel of Serenity actually moves towards stabilizing because it builds an advantage that's hard for your opponent to come back from.
Again, same thing with Isperia, Supreme Judge - it's just a worse Angel of Serenity. Instead of drawing cards when your opponent attacks you, you cast Angel and basically draw 3 cards that say "destroy target creature" right away. As for your opponent siding out Mizzium Mortars, they side it out because it doesn't hit any of your creatures... so how is this a benefit over Angel or Sphinx?
Isperia still takes 4 hits to kill (unless you get in a Keyrune attack) which is the same amount as the other creatures, and the difference between 3 and 4 turns is negligible if you've cast a 6/7 drop creature, and have the luxury of being in the position to be able to be attacking with it.
I don't mean to be an ass (really, I don't), but I just don't see a benefit to your list over a dedicated Angel of Serenity deck. It's somewhat better (maybe?) in the early game but is quickly outclassed in the late game, which is what control decks are trying to get to and take advantage of. I'm sure more testing will show which list is better though. Again, I'm not trying to put you down (you've shown your ability in deck building in the Jund thread), but I just don't think that your list uses the most powerful Blue and White spells to their full potential, which yields a suboptimal deck list. Look forward to hearing from you (and anyone else) about about this.