I'm curious why so many lists include Slitherhead. In my limited experience it isn't too impressive. I can see in the boarding plan in the post above it is sided out frequently. What makes it worth including in this deck?
mostly because in some games it just gives you free wins. T2 lotleth with 2 slitherheads in hand is really hard to come back from.
I'm curious why so many lists include Slitherhead. In my limited experience it isn't too impressive. I can see in the boarding plan in the post above it is sided out frequently. What makes it worth including in this deck?
It's also the best graveyard target for Jarad's Orders.
I'm curious why so many lists include Slitherhead. In my limited experience it isn't too impressive. I can see in the boarding plan in the post above it is sided out frequently. What makes it worth including in this deck?
It really depends on your decklist. There are at least two differently-played variations of Golgari out there...the lists that are presented here are more midrangey than a lot of the ones that are seeing some success in MTGO dailies right now.
Here's the decklist I'm running with some success:
I like this deck because it's capable of winning very quickly, yet if it doesn't win very quickly, it has some staying power. It's obviously decent against control decks because the loltrolls are so hard to remove, but it's also quite good against aggro decks, where it can really play a control role (particularly post-board).
Slitherhead is invaluable in either scenario; against control, where you're allowed to develop early and can risk putting out a turn 2 loltroll, it's not hard to attack with a 6/3 trampler on turn 3 (pitching Slitherhead, scavenging it, and using Civic Saber). Against aggro, where you don't really dare put out a loltroll until you have regen mana up, Slitherhead provides a nice early chump blocker that still has value after the block. Sure, it's a 1/1 for 1, but at least in this deck, I can't really think of how you could have a 1 CMC creature that gives you more value. (The Rackdos Cacklers certainly don't give it to you.)
I'm definitely liking the aggro versions with Rakdos Cackler, Dryad Militant, and Civic Saber over the Jarad/Demon midrange builds. I feel like I can't beat Bant, which is 75% of what I've faced in Dailies, with the midrage, slower version. The aggro version can at least curve out then protect with Golgari Charm. Rakdos Shred-Freak can be hard to cast at times, but I've definitely come to appreciate Slitherhead as Barandis mentioned.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Brushstrider: I only had it because it's 2 mana for +3/+3 off of Varolz and it can trade with anything. But that's kind of the problem, it trades with anything I can rarely go on the offensive with it. However if he becomes 6/4 or even 5/3 then he's very good.
Grisly Salvage: In testing this seemed pretty good, fill up the graveyard with scavenge and get a threat or get a land if you're screwed. And it was descent when I tested it, but there was almost no time during the PE when I wanted it in my hand, save for the few times where there was nothing in the graveyard with varolz out.
Cards that overperformed:
Varolz: Holy crap he's amazing, one of the best cards in the set, and probably in the format. He ended up being so much more powerful than I thought he was. He is the reason that this list beats mono red, because I can make one threat large enough that I can only attack with it and keep up enough blockers to stop lethal damage while at the same time dealing massive ammounts of damage. Against mono red they game would usually end with a 8/7 lotleth troll or a 6/4 brushstrider, and if I have a corpsejack menace out he's even crazier. I ended up with an 18/17 lotleth troll one game.
Putrefy: I'm so glad this card exists, G/B didn't have many ways, besides large creatures, to deal with obzedat and now we have one that can target him instead of force a sac. It's also great that it's another answer to Boros Reckoner.
Things I need to test:
Some of you are probably wondering about Skylasher in the board, he's meant for the esper decks.
The only way esper can kill him or stop him is with edicts (which I imagine they are running less of now since warped physique exists) or a verdict.
He's meant to be a scavenge target that is very hard for them to remove. Even verdicts aren't garunteed because I have golgari charm.
I haven't seen an esper list yet, and only tried him out against a bug evolve list, and he only messed up a few of their attacks, but he's not meant for that match.
I really want to fit Deadbridge Goliath in here, but I'm not sure where to cut. Looks like brushstrider should probably go but I can get a nut draw with him.
It goes:
T1 experiment one
T2 Brushstrider swing 2
T3 Dreg mangler swing 9
T4 anything swing 9
But that is pretty fragile, there were a few times where I got that draw, but it fails when they disrupt it with anything, so i never got to actually do it.
I'm also not sure about including deadbridge because he costs 4 and against mono red I already board out the menace's because they are just too slow, and i've been beating them with that strategy. It seems like Deadbridge would also be good against crontrol, since even just by himself, it would force them to deal with it.
I'm also intrested in Blood Scrivener, but I'm very hesitant to try him out. Seems like you have to dump your hand within a few turns for him to really be any good, and I don't want to waste my removal. Plus he's very weak. if he was a 2/2 I'd be all for trying him out, but as it is I'm just not sure.
I've also seen a few decks running Pack Rat, the guy that beat me in top 8 played it too. I'm not completely sure why. It seems like it's really really bad against control for obvious reasons. It also seems like it's very bad against mono red too, since you play it turn two then discard to it turn 3 and 4, and you can't block with them yet because they will just trade, so you just took 3 turns off. It was descent against me, I only lost to it once out of something like 3-4 games I played with it on the table. It's kind of hard to figure out when you actually have lethal with it because you think all of your rats can kill all of their creatures but just by one point or so, so you swing into them, they block, and then abrupt decay a rat and putrefy another. All of a sudden you lose all of your rats but one or two. This is usually how it went. Am I missing something? Why are people playing it again? I could see it being good against decks like mine (although it's not insane) and selesnya (could really see it shine here), but it's not good against most decks.
Before the PE I was playing with dryad militant and it worked out pretty well. I think she's probably better than brushstrider since it doesn't matter if she trades with mono red's cards, and she still provides great value in the graveyard. So I'm deffinitely going to try out the militant over strider.
Any suggestions? Do you think I should be playing Deadbridge? What should I take out for him?
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I think you could trade some Corpsejack Menace with Deadbridge Goliath. In situations where you have creatures with Scavendge in the graveyard and stuff on board to use it on, Corpsejack will always be better, however, in cases where you are not already winning, Deadbridge is fatter and it has scavenge by itself. Maybe you could make fit 2 of each.
Also, what do you think of Desecration Demon against control? He also goes well with Varolz.
What do you need Deathrite Shaman for? I know it's a good card overall but what do you use it the most for?
In the sideboard against RDW I saw some lists run Gift of Orzhova, what do you think of that?
Is Skylasher really worth it? it's not like blue decks have blockers... and yes he's immune to Azorius Charm and Detention Sphere.. but is that even needed when they are going to be charming your bigger threats anyway? It's still only a bear.
Right now I'm just going to sideboard 2 deadbridge in (took the place of grisly salvage) against slower decks like mine, selesnya, and control. I don't like the idea of maindecking alot of 4 drops when mono red is so popular (faced 3 of them in the PE)
Desecration Demon is a great threat against control. But he's not as good as deadbridge against creature matchups since they can just tap him when they need to. Even control can do that sometimes.
Deathrite Shaman does whatever you need at the time. It prolongs the game against mono red with lifegain, and it can deal the last bit of damage to an opponent. He can also kill legion loyalist and sometimes foundry street denizen without trading. And he doesn't die to your own golgari charms.
I'm not sure about gift. It requires you to have a creature and it's a three drop. I'd rather have stuff like golgari charm and wasteland viper, they seem to be doing the job.
Well the idea with skylasher is that I would use varolz to scavenge a bunch of counters on it and use it as a giant hard to remove threat against control. I'm not worried about them having blockers, azorious charm and detention sphere (a charm is a 4-of and d sphere is a 2-4 of in most lists) are blank against skylasher, I haven't played esper yet though, so it might be a bad idea. I tried it against uwr but they always had mugging or mortars to kill it, before i could make him big.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Is this deck gone? It doesn't seem to be placing nearly as much/at all. What I have seen is a similar deck that now runs blue for cards like Duskmantle Seer and Cyclonic Rift... but is the straight BG just dead? I was gonna try to get into block with this list. :/
Is this deck gone? It doesn't seem to be placing nearly as much/at all. What I have seen is a similar deck that now runs blue for cards like Duskmantle Seer and Cyclonic Rift... but is the straight BG just dead? I was gonna try to get into block with this list. :/
It would seem that it is collapsing along with mono R. Rising in place of it appears to be G/W, featuring Il Voce.
It's not quite dead, but I think it's moribund.
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mostly because in some games it just gives you free wins. T2 lotleth with 2 slitherheads in hand is really hard to come back from.
It's also the best graveyard target for Jarad's Orders.
It really depends on your decklist. There are at least two differently-played variations of Golgari out there...the lists that are presented here are more midrangey than a lot of the ones that are seeing some success in MTGO dailies right now.
Here's the decklist I'm running with some success:
5 Forest
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
8 Swamp
Creatures (26)
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Dryad Militant
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Slitherhead
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
Enchantments (2)
2 Stab Wound
Artifacts (4)
4 Civic Saber
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Aerial Predation
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Golgari Charm
4 Pack Rat
2 Stab Wound
3 Underworld Connections
I like this deck because it's capable of winning very quickly, yet if it doesn't win very quickly, it has some staying power. It's obviously decent against control decks because the loltrolls are so hard to remove, but it's also quite good against aggro decks, where it can really play a control role (particularly post-board).
Slitherhead is invaluable in either scenario; against control, where you're allowed to develop early and can risk putting out a turn 2 loltroll, it's not hard to attack with a 6/3 trampler on turn 3 (pitching Slitherhead, scavenging it, and using Civic Saber). Against aggro, where you don't really dare put out a loltroll until you have regen mana up, Slitherhead provides a nice early chump blocker that still has value after the block. Sure, it's a 1/1 for 1, but at least in this deck, I can't really think of how you could have a 1 CMC creature that gives you more value. (The Rackdos Cacklers certainly don't give it to you.)
GBW Melira Pod WBG
BW Tokens WB
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich lord
4 Korodza Guildmage
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Slitherhead
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Sluiceway Scorpion
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Vraska, the Unseen
Land
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
7 Forest
8 Swamp
3 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
3 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Deadbore
4 Slaughter Games
Decently low curve and the sideboard transforms it to a more midrange build.
The Family
Squee1466 (8th Place)
RTR Block Constructed Premier #4940443 on 01/28/2013
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
9 Swamp
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Desecration Demon
4 Dreg Mangler
3 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Slitherhead
4 Grisly Salvage
2 Underworld Connections
3 Vraska the Unseen
3 Aerial Predation
3 Golgari Charm
3 Pack Rat
3 Stab Wound
3 Ultimate Price
4 - Overgrown Tomb
9 - Swamp
10 - Forest
Creatures 26
4 - Experiment One
3 - Deathrite Shaman
4 - Brushstrider
4 - Lotleth Troll
4 - Dreg Mangeler
4 - Varolz, The Scar-Striped
3 - Corpsejack Menace
4 - Abrupt Decay
2 - Golgari Charm
2 - Grisly Salvage
3 - Putrefy
4 - Wasteland Viper
4 - Skylasher
2 - Grisly Salvage
2 - Golgari Charm
2 - Underworld Connections
1 - Putrefy
Cards that underperformed:
Brushstrider: I only had it because it's 2 mana for +3/+3 off of Varolz and it can trade with anything. But that's kind of the problem, it trades with anything I can rarely go on the offensive with it. However if he becomes 6/4 or even 5/3 then he's very good.
Grisly Salvage: In testing this seemed pretty good, fill up the graveyard with scavenge and get a threat or get a land if you're screwed. And it was descent when I tested it, but there was almost no time during the PE when I wanted it in my hand, save for the few times where there was nothing in the graveyard with varolz out.
Cards that overperformed:
Varolz: Holy crap he's amazing, one of the best cards in the set, and probably in the format. He ended up being so much more powerful than I thought he was. He is the reason that this list beats mono red, because I can make one threat large enough that I can only attack with it and keep up enough blockers to stop lethal damage while at the same time dealing massive ammounts of damage. Against mono red they game would usually end with a 8/7 lotleth troll or a 6/4 brushstrider, and if I have a corpsejack menace out he's even crazier. I ended up with an 18/17 lotleth troll one game.
Putrefy: I'm so glad this card exists, G/B didn't have many ways, besides large creatures, to deal with obzedat and now we have one that can target him instead of force a sac. It's also great that it's another answer to Boros Reckoner.
Things I need to test:
Some of you are probably wondering about Skylasher in the board, he's meant for the esper decks.
The only way esper can kill him or stop him is with edicts (which I imagine they are running less of now since warped physique exists) or a verdict.
He's meant to be a scavenge target that is very hard for them to remove. Even verdicts aren't garunteed because I have golgari charm.
I haven't seen an esper list yet, and only tried him out against a bug evolve list, and he only messed up a few of their attacks, but he's not meant for that match.
I really want to fit Deadbridge Goliath in here, but I'm not sure where to cut. Looks like brushstrider should probably go but I can get a nut draw with him.
It goes:
T1 experiment one
T2 Brushstrider swing 2
T3 Dreg mangler swing 9
T4 anything swing 9
But that is pretty fragile, there were a few times where I got that draw, but it fails when they disrupt it with anything, so i never got to actually do it.
I'm also not sure about including deadbridge because he costs 4 and against mono red I already board out the menace's because they are just too slow, and i've been beating them with that strategy. It seems like Deadbridge would also be good against crontrol, since even just by himself, it would force them to deal with it.
I'm also intrested in Blood Scrivener, but I'm very hesitant to try him out. Seems like you have to dump your hand within a few turns for him to really be any good, and I don't want to waste my removal. Plus he's very weak. if he was a 2/2 I'd be all for trying him out, but as it is I'm just not sure.
I've also seen a few decks running Pack Rat, the guy that beat me in top 8 played it too. I'm not completely sure why. It seems like it's really really bad against control for obvious reasons. It also seems like it's very bad against mono red too, since you play it turn two then discard to it turn 3 and 4, and you can't block with them yet because they will just trade, so you just took 3 turns off. It was descent against me, I only lost to it once out of something like 3-4 games I played with it on the table. It's kind of hard to figure out when you actually have lethal with it because you think all of your rats can kill all of their creatures but just by one point or so, so you swing into them, they block, and then abrupt decay a rat and putrefy another. All of a sudden you lose all of your rats but one or two. This is usually how it went. Am I missing something? Why are people playing it again? I could see it being good against decks like mine (although it's not insane) and selesnya (could really see it shine here), but it's not good against most decks.
Before the PE I was playing with dryad militant and it worked out pretty well. I think she's probably better than brushstrider since it doesn't matter if she trades with mono red's cards, and she still provides great value in the graveyard. So I'm deffinitely going to try out the militant over strider.
Any suggestions? Do you think I should be playing Deadbridge? What should I take out for him?
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Also, what do you think of Desecration Demon against control? He also goes well with Varolz.
What do you need Deathrite Shaman for? I know it's a good card overall but what do you use it the most for?
In the sideboard against RDW I saw some lists run Gift of Orzhova, what do you think of that?
Is Skylasher really worth it? it's not like blue decks have blockers... and yes he's immune to Azorius Charm and Detention Sphere.. but is that even needed when they are going to be charming your bigger threats anyway? It's still only a bear.
Desecration Demon is a great threat against control. But he's not as good as deadbridge against creature matchups since they can just tap him when they need to. Even control can do that sometimes.
Deathrite Shaman does whatever you need at the time. It prolongs the game against mono red with lifegain, and it can deal the last bit of damage to an opponent. He can also kill legion loyalist and sometimes foundry street denizen without trading. And he doesn't die to your own golgari charms.
I'm not sure about gift. It requires you to have a creature and it's a three drop. I'd rather have stuff like golgari charm and wasteland viper, they seem to be doing the job.
Well the idea with skylasher is that I would use varolz to scavenge a bunch of counters on it and use it as a giant hard to remove threat against control. I'm not worried about them having blockers, azorious charm and detention sphere (a charm is a 4-of and d sphere is a 2-4 of in most lists) are blank against skylasher, I haven't played esper yet though, so it might be a bad idea. I tried it against uwr but they always had mugging or mortars to kill it, before i could make him big.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
It would seem that it is collapsing along with mono R. Rising in place of it appears to be G/W, featuring Il Voce.
It's not quite dead, but I think it's moribund.