I've been playing with something like this in standard and it sorta looks like it wouldn't be bad in block. Especially against a limited selection of other decks.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord seems like it would be a better 4-drop for your deck than Slum Reaper. You don't have any creatures that want to be sacced to the Reaper, might as well have a curve topper that can come in and finish them off.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord seems like it would be a better 4-drop for your deck than Slum Reaper. You don't have any creatures that want to be sacced to the Reaper, might as well have a curve topper that can come in and finish them off.
Yeah, I was thinking about him too. I admit Slum Reaper is kinda silly, but I wasn't really sure what else to fill out the deck with. I was just a bit worried that Jarad wouldn't consistently be that big on turn 4 in a deck that wants to just go for the dumb super fast aggro route.
Perhaps I'll cut like 2 Reapers for 2 Jarads and see how things go. Much thanks for the input.
Agree about cutting Rakdos Shred Freak, especially when running both a green and a black one drop. As for the 4 drop situation, I don't know of a better card than Desecration Demon. 6/6 Flyer for 4 that at least kills your opponents creatures so your littler guys from earlier can get through.
Unfortunately I'm not sure what the benefit of this deck is over Jund. You lose the best removal and you gain... Dryad Militant and a 3/1? Not feeling it.
This is what I have been working on. I just finished building it last night so I have done no testing so far. Maybe after I run down 20 or so matches with it I will cook up a sideboard.
I'm not so sure about slitherhead. The other cards all seem strong. Maybe civic saber as mentioned before is better in slitherhead's slot. Most of the creatures are two colors.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I'm not so sure about slitherhead. The other cards all seem strong. Maybe civic saber as mentioned before is better in slitherhead's slot. Most of the creatures are two colors.
I just like that I can pitch Slitherhead to Lol Troll and still get value out of it.
So after some testing on MODO last night, granted against some standard decks(nobody testing block on MODO yet) I have found that the deck runs well. I think I will cut the Rakdos Cacklers and add 1 Deathrite Shaman, 1 more Jarad and 2 more Desecration Demons. Slitherhead works nicely with Lotleth Troll (who is an absolute house by the way). Deathrite Shaman is fantastic and is usually my first target for Treasured Find . More testing to come when more people start testing their block decks.
Think I played you today greazy I'm anewhope1126 on modo, golgari is testing sweet, scavenge ability with grisly savage is amazing, that's what I been getting my kills, lotleth and the menace is gg.
You sure did play me last night...my draws were terrible and I haven't made the changes to my deck yet(I don't get paid until tomorrow!). But, I liked some of the things you did with your deck, especially Grisly Salvage. I pondered that card for some time but didn't include it, but now I think I may have to find some room for that in my 60. Are you running any Vraska? I am trying 2 right now but so far she has been not all that impressive.
I ttired running two in the board for mirrors i find that straight GB has trouble dealing with planeswalkers i lost bad to junk ramp with angel of serenity wurm.im trying red splash but well see.
I've been playing against this deck with my Izzet-based 4 color control (I played a few games against you last night).
If you want some thoughts from someone on the other end of the table, here's what I got.
I think that the deck needs to be more defined. Right now I feel that you're trying to pull off a midrange AND aggro strategy at the same time, and it feels awkward. You don't have enough aggro to consistently blaze through, and you don't have enough midrange to keep your big guys on the field.
I also have to say that Lotleth troll is a great card, but it was also the only card in the deck that I was worried about. Once I paid the troll toll, the rest didn't seem too threatening.
I'd recommend either picking up some more aggro (Cackler into lotleth into dread) and then keeping up the pressure with more small guys, or making a more mid-range strategy (deathrite, desecration, lotleth, with scavenging and grisly salvage, even Vraska), and getting rid of the extra creatures for more utility.
I ttired running two in the board for mirrors i find that straight GB has trouble dealing with planeswalkers i lost bad to junk ramp with angel of serenity wurm.im trying red splash but well see.
Well I know that I have Ultimate Price in the board for the Angel and Abrupt Decay takes care of the Wurm tokens. I don't know about a red splash, I think if I end up not liking the deck, I will just convert it to the more midrange Jund.
Got a small bit of testing in last night. Mostly against other Golgari decks. I went 2 out of 3 against the mirror and played 1 Jund deck and beat that too. I still haven't completed my deck to the way I would like it. The biggest thing that I have noticed is that it is imperative to stick an early Lotleth Troll and protect him the best you can. I even go as far as leaving 2 swamps up for regen cause I have had people use 2 removal spells on him. I have found that often times he is the only creature that I need on the board to win the game.
I think I'm going to try the transformational sideboard. I feel my mirror and other aggro match-ups are pretty solid. I am worried about control and Serenity Angel and Jace. So, I will board into the cards that will take care of that problem for me. I will update as I go!
Thats not counting the other 2 that went 3-1..... This really should be under competitive......
PM cardfather and let him know he should move it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I like the deck but it is hard for me to decide what to take out when sideboarding. Can someone give me some hints how to sideboard with this deck?
What match ups are you having problems with...it would also help to see your decklist with a sideboard. Kind of hard to help you when we don't know what your options are.
B/G is the most played deck online and I just jumped on board, the mirror match feels really luck dependent, does anyone have any good teck for the mirror. I was thinking about stab wound to combat trolls but I don't think that is very good.
I just picked up the deck archetype, and had some of the same questions. I do have a few more answers that might help.
Against the UW/x control decks, abrupt decay comes out and golgari charm comes in. If their win condition is Niv Mizzet, consider 1-2 Aerial Predation.
I think Pack Rat is for the GW matchup, as they have minimal removal and the rat can just run them out of the game.
Sorry, I just realized I made the most basic mistake not specifying my question.
I am testing both lists quoted by BoomerAang Squad.
I am not really sure when to sideboard in the Rats and what to take out.
How much of my removal am I supposed to use against Control and Green White Decks with defensive Creatures and Cards like Arrest or Detention Sphere?
Especially on the play I feel like you don't want to change the main deck too much.
The Menace seems strange in the Sideboard because I'd imagine it coming in to strengthen the late game of the deck but it also slows it down considerably so this would only be beneficial in the mirror rather than control decks, right?
Well any advise on how to sideboard would be much appreciated.
just started playing on MTGO and I CANT WAIT to throw this together! I've been using Desecration Demon as a finisher in standard so to be able to play him more is just icing
I'm sitting in a starbucks waiting for my flight, so I'll do a more detailed report later, but this is the list I've been running with some success on modo.
I like this version of the deck because there is a lot of play to it, a lot of usually impossible matchups are winnable because you can just sneak in 20 damage in one turn. I also believe that this is the best version for the mirror.
Speaking of the mirror, it's definitely the most played matchup online so you have to be ready for it. For the person who said it's luck, I only slightly agree. I think the coin-flip determines about 55% of mirror matches, but there are so many decisions to make in the early - midgame that outplaying your opponent is definitely possible (do I play my Lotleth into his Abrupt Decay to set up 3 damage with Dreg next turn, play my Slitherhead to block his Dreg and then pump my Troll or do I sack it to the Troll and get in damage while I can etc etc)
I will say that I'm probably going to put this deck down for a while, and play Bant, the matchup is essentially unwinnable for us. They just gain a million life with Centaur Healer and Sphinx's Revelation and then Detention Sphere away all your Pack Rat's and then wrath you and play Armada Wurm or Angel of Serenity and you just can't win. I'm trying to figure out a solution, and i'll post one when I do.
I will say that sideboarding is one of the many weaknesses in my game, and I think if I could figure it out my game's 2/3 would be a lot better (even though, for whatever reason I keep winning those games, it'd probably be easier if I knew how to SB)
I'm still not quite sure what to take out in this matchup, but I'm pretty sure this is close. Kozada Guildmage is pretty bad, intimidate doesn't do anything and while I think making tokens is alright, I'd rather just throw those creatures at them with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Slitherhead is also mediocre, and even though you're bringing in a Corpsejack Menace you have enough other ways to use it that it's still good, besides you want your t1, t2 plays to involve Pack Rat and Deathrite Shaman. Aerial Predation is there exclusively for Desecration Demon. Killing it is usually enough to break a stalemate and set up a lethal attack. Corpsejack Menace is your "go bigger" card, and they often have no way of interacting with it and your guys get huge. Pack Rat is the ultimate attrition card in this matchup, it fuels your Jarad's and gives you incremental advantage, they have to have an Abrupt Decay on t2 or you win the game, and if they're using their removal on t2 then you get to Lotleth Troll them to death and they're way behind on the board.
Kozada Guildmage again is pretty bad in this matchup, as are all of your sideboard cards. I think Golgari Charm is worth bringing in because they play more removal in liu of more aggressive creatures. Regen'ing your dudes when they overload a Mizzium Mortars is one of the best feelings. If anyone has any other suggestions for SBing here I'm all ears cause I haven't figured this one out, but I feel that maindeck vs maindeck we have the advantage. We're just more streamlined and don't stumble on mana and have Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord to combo them out.
This matchup is pretty rough. You HAVE TO play around Selesnya Charm all the time, which is why I board out the Salvage plan. I can't tell you how many times I Salavage Deadbridge Goliath on a Lotleth Troll and swing for lethal only to get completely blown out. Pack Rat is a house in this matchup and they don't have any removal for it. My goal here is just to play one, then durdle around killing their Armada Wurm tokens and playing Vraska the Unseen. This is one of those matchups where attacking with Deathrite Shaman is really important, every bit of damage helps. Usually the game ends when I stick a Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord and Deathrite my own GY to keep him at 4 power and then throw dudes at their face. Oh and you can't beat a resolved Angel of Serenity unless you have the timely Ultimate Price or Aerial Predation.
vs Bant Control
I have no idea how to win this matchup, actually no idea. It's the same thing as trying to beat Bant with Zombies in standard, basically impossible. Centaur Healer trades with your dudes and keeps their life total in check and when you try to get bigger than them they play Selesnya Charm. Sometimes it seems like you have lethal and then they wrath and play Jace, Architect of Thought and lock you out of the game til they kills you with Armada Wurms and Angel of Serenitys. Oh and playing around Azorius Charm is also next to impossible, and the lifelink mode is usually the one they'll chose. I will tell you that you want +4 Golgari Charm because it kills Detentions Sphere and Arrest and protects your dudes from Supreme Verdict... other than that I have no idea
That's all I've got for now. Overall I think this deck is still decent, and will continue to 3-1/4-0 dailies as long as Jace/Angel remain in the $20+ range. The dailies that I've 'monied' in have been basically all mirrors, same with 2-mans. I'll record some 2-Man's and Dailies over the next couple days and post them somewhere, I might even stream them if that's preferable to ppl who want to see how the deck is played/are generous enough to teach me how to not be terrible at magic.
I'm curious why so many lists include Slitherhead. In my limited experience it isn't too impressive. I can see in the boarding plan in the post above it is sided out frequently. What makes it worth including in this deck?
4 Dryad Militant
4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Brushstrider
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Rakdos Shred Freak
4 Dreg Mengler
4 Slum Reaper
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Stab Wound
Lands:
4 Overgrown Tomb
10 Forest
10 Swamp
Yeah, I was thinking about him too. I admit Slum Reaper is kinda silly, but I wasn't really sure what else to fill out the deck with. I was just a bit worried that Jarad wouldn't consistently be that big on turn 4 in a deck that wants to just go for the dumb super fast aggro route.
Perhaps I'll cut like 2 Reapers for 2 Jarads and see how things go. Much thanks for the input.
Unfortunately I'm not sure what the benefit of this deck is over Jund. You lose the best removal and you gain... Dryad Militant and a 3/1? Not feeling it.
4 Overgrown Tomb
10 Forest
10 Swamp
Creatures
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Slitherhead
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Slum Reaper
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Desecration Demon
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Stab Wound
2 Ultimate Price
2 Treasured Find
Planeswalkers
2 Vraska, The Unseen
This is what I have been working on. I just finished building it last night so I have done no testing so far. Maybe after I run down 20 or so matches with it I will cook up a sideboard.
4 Dryad Militant
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Brushstrider
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Ultimate Price
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Stab Wound
4 Overgrown tomb
10 Swamp
6 Forest
I'm not so sure about slitherhead. The other cards all seem strong. Maybe civic saber as mentioned before is better in slitherhead's slot. Most of the creatures are two colors.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I just like that I can pitch Slitherhead to Lol Troll and still get value out of it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
If you want some thoughts from someone on the other end of the table, here's what I got.
I think that the deck needs to be more defined. Right now I feel that you're trying to pull off a midrange AND aggro strategy at the same time, and it feels awkward. You don't have enough aggro to consistently blaze through, and you don't have enough midrange to keep your big guys on the field.
I also have to say that Lotleth troll is a great card, but it was also the only card in the deck that I was worried about. Once I paid the troll toll, the rest didn't seem too threatening.
I'd recommend either picking up some more aggro (Cackler into lotleth into dread) and then keeping up the pressure with more small guys, or making a more mid-range strategy (deathrite, desecration, lotleth, with scavenging and grisly salvage, even Vraska), and getting rid of the extra creatures for more utility.
Well I know that I have Ultimate Price in the board for the Angel and Abrupt Decay takes care of the Wurm tokens. I don't know about a red splash, I think if I end up not liking the deck, I will just convert it to the more midrange Jund.
4 Overgrown Tomb
10 Forest
10 Swamp
Creatures
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Slitherhead
4 Desecration Demon
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Deadbridge Goliath
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Stab Wound
2 Ultimate Price
2 Treasured Find
Planeswalkers
2 Vraska, The Unseen
3 Dreadbore
3 Slaughter Games
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Blood Crypt
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Ultimate Price
I think I'm going to try the transformational sideboard. I feel my mirror and other aggro match-ups are pretty solid. I am worried about control and Serenity Angel and Jace. So, I will board into the cards that will take care of that problem for me. I will update as I go!
Butakov (4-0)
RTR Block Constructed Daily #4485616 on 10/26/2012
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
9 Swamp
2 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
2 Korozda Guildmage
4 Lotleth Troll
2 Rakdos Cackler
4 Slitherhead
4 Grisly Salvage
2 Vraska the Unseen
3 Aerial Predation
1 Corpsejack Menace
4 Golgari Charm
4 Pack Rat
2 Pithing Needle
1 Underworld Connections
PauloCabral_Br (4-0)
RTR Block Constructed Daily #4485662 on 10/27/2012
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
9 Swamp
1 Corpsejack Menace
2 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Desecration Demon
4 Dreg Mangler
3 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
2 Korozda Guildmage
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Slitherhead
4 Grisly Salvage
2 Vraska the Unseen
3 Aerial Predation
2 Corpsejack Menace
4 Golgari Charm
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
2 Pack Rat
2 Pithing Needle
1 Underworld Connections
1 Deck was 4-0
4 Decks Were 3-1
PM cardfather and let him know he should move it.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
What match ups are you having problems with...it would also help to see your decklist with a sideboard. Kind of hard to help you when we don't know what your options are.
Against the UW/x control decks, abrupt decay comes out and golgari charm comes in. If their win condition is Niv Mizzet, consider 1-2 Aerial Predation.
I think Pack Rat is for the GW matchup, as they have minimal removal and the rat can just run them out of the game.
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
9 Swamp
24 lands
1 Corpsejack Menace
2 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Desecration Demon
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Korozda Guildmage
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Slitherhead
26 Creatures
2 Vraska, the Unseen
4 Grisly Savage
10 Other Spells
3 Aerial Predation
4 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
3 Pack Rats
1 Underworld Connections
1 Ultimate Price
1 Corpsejack Menace
I like this version of the deck because there is a lot of play to it, a lot of usually impossible matchups are winnable because you can just sneak in 20 damage in one turn. I also believe that this is the best version for the mirror.
Speaking of the mirror, it's definitely the most played matchup online so you have to be ready for it. For the person who said it's luck, I only slightly agree. I think the coin-flip determines about 55% of mirror matches, but there are so many decisions to make in the early - midgame that outplaying your opponent is definitely possible (do I play my Lotleth into his Abrupt Decay to set up 3 damage with Dreg next turn, play my Slitherhead to block his Dreg and then pump my Troll or do I sack it to the Troll and get in damage while I can etc etc)
I will say that I'm probably going to put this deck down for a while, and play Bant, the matchup is essentially unwinnable for us. They just gain a million life with Centaur Healer and Sphinx's Revelation and then Detention Sphere away all your Pack Rat's and then wrath you and play Armada Wurm or Angel of Serenity and you just can't win. I'm trying to figure out a solution, and i'll post one when I do.
I will say that sideboarding is one of the many weaknesses in my game, and I think if I could figure it out my game's 2/3 would be a lot better (even though, for whatever reason I keep winning those games, it'd probably be easier if I knew how to SB)
vs Mirror
OUT:
-2 Kozada Guildmage
-4 Slitherhead
IN:
+2 Aerial Predation
+1 Corpsejack Menace
+3 Pack Rat
I'm still not quite sure what to take out in this matchup, but I'm pretty sure this is close. Kozada Guildmage is pretty bad, intimidate doesn't do anything and while I think making tokens is alright, I'd rather just throw those creatures at them with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Slitherhead is also mediocre, and even though you're bringing in a Corpsejack Menace you have enough other ways to use it that it's still good, besides you want your t1, t2 plays to involve Pack Rat and Deathrite Shaman. Aerial Predation is there exclusively for Desecration Demon. Killing it is usually enough to break a stalemate and set up a lethal attack. Corpsejack Menace is your "go bigger" card, and they often have no way of interacting with it and your guys get huge. Pack Rat is the ultimate attrition card in this matchup, it fuels your Jarad's and gives you incremental advantage, they have to have an Abrupt Decay on t2 or you win the game, and if they're using their removal on t2 then you get to Lotleth Troll them to death and they're way behind on the board.
vs Jund
OUT:
-2 Kozada Guildmage
IN:
+2 Golgari Charm
Kozada Guildmage again is pretty bad in this matchup, as are all of your sideboard cards. I think Golgari Charm is worth bringing in because they play more removal in liu of more aggressive creatures. Regen'ing your dudes when they overload a Mizzium Mortars is one of the best feelings. If anyone has any other suggestions for SBing here I'm all ears cause I haven't figured this one out, but I feel that maindeck vs maindeck we have the advantage. We're just more streamlined and don't stumble on mana and have Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord to combo them out.
vs GW Aggro
OUT:
-1 Corpsejack Menace
-2 Deadbridge Goliath
-4 Slitherhead
IN:
+1 Ultimate Price
+3 Pack Rat
+3 Aerial Predation
This matchup is pretty rough. You HAVE TO play around Selesnya Charm all the time, which is why I board out the Salvage plan. I can't tell you how many times I Salavage Deadbridge Goliath on a Lotleth Troll and swing for lethal only to get completely blown out. Pack Rat is a house in this matchup and they don't have any removal for it. My goal here is just to play one, then durdle around killing their Armada Wurm tokens and playing Vraska the Unseen. This is one of those matchups where attacking with Deathrite Shaman is really important, every bit of damage helps. Usually the game ends when I stick a Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord and Deathrite my own GY to keep him at 4 power and then throw dudes at their face. Oh and you can't beat a resolved Angel of Serenity unless you have the timely Ultimate Price or Aerial Predation.
vs Bant Control
I have no idea how to win this matchup, actually no idea. It's the same thing as trying to beat Bant with Zombies in standard, basically impossible. Centaur Healer trades with your dudes and keeps their life total in check and when you try to get bigger than them they play Selesnya Charm. Sometimes it seems like you have lethal and then they wrath and play Jace, Architect of Thought and lock you out of the game til they kills you with Armada Wurms and Angel of Serenitys. Oh and playing around Azorius Charm is also next to impossible, and the lifelink mode is usually the one they'll chose. I will tell you that you want +4 Golgari Charm because it kills Detentions Sphere and Arrest and protects your dudes from Supreme Verdict... other than that I have no idea
That's all I've got for now. Overall I think this deck is still decent, and will continue to 3-1/4-0 dailies as long as Jace/Angel remain in the $20+ range. The dailies that I've 'monied' in have been basically all mirrors, same with 2-mans. I'll record some 2-Man's and Dailies over the next couple days and post them somewhere, I might even stream them if that's preferable to ppl who want to see how the deck is played/are generous enough to teach me how to not be terrible at magic.
Happy spellslinging!
_creyes_ on modo