I placed 14th in the PE event yesterday with this deck. It beats aggro and control (esper and UWRB, I have not seen U/W since Royal's new BWR list was posted) pretty easily, but i have issues against the new BWR deck (my only losses). So I'm looking for ways to shore up that match and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Things that are awsome:
The Alms Beast and Desecration Demon are amazing against aggro, once one is out turn 4, they usually stop attacking, then I get multiples out and start beating face with a demon. It gets to the point where they have to start sacing to stop it. Dutiful Thrull and High Priest of Penance work great in this matchup too. Perfect for stalling the board early on while I wait to get a demon or a beast down.
Necropolis Regeant is great against control and surprisingly the BWR deck. I beat one BWR deck because I got this out in both matches. A 24/24 demon is nothing to laugh at. Thull Parasite also shines in these matchups, helping to get through the final points of damage.
Things that suck:
The removal is pretty bad, they have severe drawbacks. But at the same time it's important to play them against aggro in the early turns. I do sideboard out Orzhov Charms against BWR and control, but i feel that if i didn't use devour flesh, I'd be able to end the game quicker. However the only other good removal spell is grisly spectacle, which is way to slow against aggro, and is at a crucial cmc for this list.
I think I need more lifegain. Thrull Parasite is great and usually gains me about 5-10 life over the course of the game. Orzhove keyrune is alright in this department as well, however I rarely use it to attack and mostly hold it back as a blocker/use it as ramp. The biggest source of lifegain is Obzedat, but that's not even fast enough against rwb, because by that time I seem to be low on life as it is, since I use Underworld Connections in that matchup, and just one rakdos's return or aurelia's fury away from losing (that's how they won everytime).
Things I'm considering:
Rest In Peace is intended to stop U/W from winning with Angel loops. However I haven't seen a U/W deck since early last saturday before Royal's PE winning list was posted. I think Slaughter Games might have made that deck unplayable. So maybe I can take it out of the board.
In it's place I think i need more lifegain. As weird as it sounds, maybe the answer is in Gift of Orzhova. I always stick a creature against those decks, and if I just put in two gifts I could wait until one of them can attack anthrow it on them. even if that one gets removed, the 7 life I would gain would probably be enough since they have only won each time because of a top-decked rakdos's return or aurelia's fury.
I also might have too many Underworld Connections, 4 is great against control, because it lets me go through my deck faster than they can. But against BWR it's very hard to use it at the right time. And the game usually ends with one stuck in my hand.
So maybe -2 rest in peace, -1 Underworld connections, +3 Gift of Orzhova in the sideboard?
Thanks for reading and let me know what you guys think!
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
sweet looking deck. I like how all of your janky 1 drops (esp with 8 post board) are able to trade off for firefist striker so your 4 drops can be effective as walls against RDW unlike other decks that try to stabilise with creatures.
Necropolis regent seems like it's going to be dead in too many matchups, isn't that more of a sideboard card?
Is Vizkopa Guildmage a possible sideboard option for life-gain? Seems better than an aura which sets you up for an azorious charm blowout.
Instead of gift of orzhova i've settled on Tablet of the Guilds.
It's perfect I end up gaining around 7-15 life off of just one over the course of a game. And unlike extort, i don't have to pay any costs for it to work.
Necropolis Regeant is great for creature buildups where you need to attack but also need to keep a couple blockers back. It quickly turns the game in your favor.
I just played a daily, and lost to bant and esper control, both were extremely close. In the bant match I just made a really big mistake (played desecration demon and immediatly paid extort then got syncopated for the ammount that i could have payed if i didn't extort). and the esper player won by playing revelation about 3 times, and nightveil spector is annoying if you don't kill it immediatly.
But I won against RWB, wasn't even a contest with the tablets. And since my creatures are so big he had to cast aurelia's fury for two and mizzium mortars to kill an alms beast.
So I'm changing up the list a bit. I think I'm going to try out more top end with 2 angel of serenity, lord of the void, and possibly treasury thrull. They should all give me card advantage against slower decks. And I still have the tablets, removal, and the sideboard for aggro. I'll post a list when I settle on one.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I just played a daily, and lost to bant and esper control, both were extremely close. In the bant match I just made a really big mistake (played desecration demon and immediatly paid extort then got syncopated for the ammount that i could have payed if i didn't extort). and the esper player won by playing revelation about 3 times, and nightveil spector is annoying if you don't kill it immediatly.
<snip>
So I'm changing up the list a bit. I think I'm going to try out more top end with 2 angel of serenity, lord of the void, and possibly treasury thrull. They should all give me card advantage against slower decks. And I still have the tablets, removal, and the sideboard for aggro. I'll post a list when I settle on one.
Yeah that's a way I imagine this deck losing, you don't pressure the control decks enough so they will just draw a million cards and gain a bunch of life and attrition you out. You essentially draw the wrong half of your deck.
As for suggestions for your decklist, I don't think you should be playing 4 underworld connections. Very rarely do you ever want 2. You could probably play some black 7 drop over them. I think sepulchral primordial might be better than lord of the void since it doesn't have to attack to get card advantage. Angel of serenity is also a fine choice but a nobo if you're playing rest in peace.
This list has suboptimal cards such as Thrull Parasite, Necropolis Regent, to some extent Desecration Demon, Orzhov Charm and Orzhov Keyrune.
I don't think running 2 colors will make the deck stable enough to compensate for playing cards that are simply less good. I don't see why you aren't throwing red in the deck to open up very interesting solutions that will help the control matchup.
Slaughter Games, Dreadbore, Rakdos's Return, Rakdos Keyrune, etc.
I don't like the red splash, to me it's just making it inconsistent, and the only cards I think it adds are dreadbore, and slaughter games. I don't like rakdos's return right now since the format is too fast for it.
So here's where I'm at with this deck. I decided to take this in a more white heavy direction.
I'm not too sure on Dryad Militant. This deck is quite strong against jund aggro and mono red, and a lot of it has to do with the dryad being a turn one play. She trades with almost anything the aggro decks play, and certainly anything they play turn one or two. But agianst everything else, she's just too small. I've been siding her out in control, gwb, and naya matchups but leave her in against wbr just because she can be brought back by orzhov charm. I really wish there was something better I could be doing on turn one.
Looking at this list you'd probably think that arrest is the oddest removal card, and possibly the weakest in the deck. But it's deffinitely not. It's basically an o-ring for creatures, sure it can be abrupt decayed but that hasn't come up yet, besides it's better that that gets destroyed rather than a reckoner.
The most underwhelming card to me is Devour Flesh. When you are against creature light decks, it's incredible, but against decks that flood the field like mono red, it's not nearly as good, plus it interacts very badly with arrest, since they will just sacrifice the arrested creature. I really need targeted removal in this slot.
The other removal cards in my colors are:
Ultimate Price (very good against mono red, terrible against most other decks)
Executioner's Swing (hits everything but Angel of serenity, Alms Best, and desecration demon, basically orzhov charm 5-8)
Arrows of Justice (instant speed Mizzium Mortars)
Killing Glare (i'm afraid it's too slow)
Grisly Spectacle (again probably too slow)
Soul Tithe (doesn't actually get rid of important stuff, but stops the opponent from doing things)
avenging arrow (executioner's swing is probably better)
The ones I like the most out of that are Ultimate Price and Executioner's Swing. If those don't work out then I'll deffinitely try out Arrows of justice, but I really like having my removal at 2 cmc and I only have arrest because it can stop any creature besides Obzedat.
So what do you guys think of my new list and what removal I should use?
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I don't really like Arrests here, 3 cmc sorcery speed is a bit slow. I think Orzhov Charm and Devour Flesh should be enough removal for this kind of deck.
You run a lot of creatures, Blind Obedience would be a good way to slow down blockers against you. It's also good against the decks running Obzedat and against RDW too.
Why do you keep the Angel of Serenity in the sideboard? Do you think they are too slow for the RDW matchup? 1-2 maindeck shouldn't slow you down too much, and they are pure value.
I don't really like Arrests here, 3 cmc sorcery speed is a bit slow. I think Orzhov Charm and Devour Flesh should be enough removal for this kind of deck.
You run a lot of creatures, Blind Obedience would be a good way to slow down blockers against you. It's also good against the decks running Obzedat and against RDW too.
Why do you keep the Angel of Serenity in the sideboard? Do you think they are too slow for the RDW matchup? 1-2 maindeck shouldn't slow you down too much, and they are pure value.
You might be right about the removal, I really like Arrest because it's another non conditional removal of sorts. But it doesn't stop abilities that don't rely on conbat or activation to work such as trostani's life-gain. I've lost several games to trostani, maybe i'm just running into non-competitive decks in the practice room lately, but I've been seeing alot of selesnya aggro, which is wierd because they aren't placing in the dailies.
I never really liked blind obediance, against aggro you want to be removing a creature or playing your own on turn 2, not playing basically a do-nothing enchantment. Blind obediance is really something I'd rather be doing on turn 4-5 so that I can remove a creature or play one of my own in the same turn.
And against slower decks it's not really that great since they don't have many creatures to begin with. But I might try one or two just to see what it's like in this deck.
I had the angel in the sideboard because of mono red. But against all the other decks, there are alot of situations where I wish I could have drawn an angel so I'm moving those to the maindeck now.
The deck is the same except for -4 arrests +2 angel of serenity +2 Ultimate Price. If I add in blind obediance it will be over one of the Ultimate prices. And in place of the Angels in the sideboard I'm playing 2 grisly spectacle, just for more instant spot removal that doesn't have a downside for slower decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
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Here's my list:
4 - Godless Shrine
4 - Orzhov Guildgate
9 - Swamp
8 - Plains
Creatures: 22
4 - Thrull Parasite
4 - Precinct Captain
4 - Alms Beast
4 - Desecration Demon
4 - Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 - Necropolis Regeant
4 - Devour Flesh
4 - Orzhov Charm
1 - Blind Obediance
4 - Orzhov Keyrune
4 - Dutiful Thrull
3 - High Priest of Penance
4 - Underworld Connections
2 - Rest in Peace
2 - Viskopa Confessor
Things that are awsome:
The Alms Beast and Desecration Demon are amazing against aggro, once one is out turn 4, they usually stop attacking, then I get multiples out and start beating face with a demon. It gets to the point where they have to start sacing to stop it. Dutiful Thrull and High Priest of Penance work great in this matchup too. Perfect for stalling the board early on while I wait to get a demon or a beast down.
Necropolis Regeant is great against control and surprisingly the BWR deck. I beat one BWR deck because I got this out in both matches. A 24/24 demon is nothing to laugh at. Thull Parasite also shines in these matchups, helping to get through the final points of damage.
Things that suck:
The removal is pretty bad, they have severe drawbacks. But at the same time it's important to play them against aggro in the early turns. I do sideboard out Orzhov Charms against BWR and control, but i feel that if i didn't use devour flesh, I'd be able to end the game quicker. However the only other good removal spell is grisly spectacle, which is way to slow against aggro, and is at a crucial cmc for this list.
I think I need more lifegain. Thrull Parasite is great and usually gains me about 5-10 life over the course of the game. Orzhove keyrune is alright in this department as well, however I rarely use it to attack and mostly hold it back as a blocker/use it as ramp. The biggest source of lifegain is Obzedat, but that's not even fast enough against rwb, because by that time I seem to be low on life as it is, since I use Underworld Connections in that matchup, and just one rakdos's return or aurelia's fury away from losing (that's how they won everytime).
Things I'm considering:
Rest In Peace is intended to stop U/W from winning with Angel loops. However I haven't seen a U/W deck since early last saturday before Royal's PE winning list was posted. I think Slaughter Games might have made that deck unplayable. So maybe I can take it out of the board.
In it's place I think i need more lifegain. As weird as it sounds, maybe the answer is in Gift of Orzhova. I always stick a creature against those decks, and if I just put in two gifts I could wait until one of them can attack anthrow it on them. even if that one gets removed, the 7 life I would gain would probably be enough since they have only won each time because of a top-decked rakdos's return or aurelia's fury.
I also might have too many Underworld Connections, 4 is great against control, because it lets me go through my deck faster than they can. But against BWR it's very hard to use it at the right time. And the game usually ends with one stuck in my hand.
So maybe -2 rest in peace, -1 Underworld connections, +3 Gift of Orzhova in the sideboard?
Thanks for reading and let me know what you guys think!
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Necropolis regent seems like it's going to be dead in too many matchups, isn't that more of a sideboard card?
Is Vizkopa Guildmage a possible sideboard option for life-gain? Seems better than an aura which sets you up for an azorious charm blowout.
It's perfect I end up gaining around 7-15 life off of just one over the course of a game. And unlike extort, i don't have to pay any costs for it to work.
Necropolis Regeant is great for creature buildups where you need to attack but also need to keep a couple blockers back. It quickly turns the game in your favor.
I just played a daily, and lost to bant and esper control, both were extremely close. In the bant match I just made a really big mistake (played desecration demon and immediatly paid extort then got syncopated for the ammount that i could have payed if i didn't extort). and the esper player won by playing revelation about 3 times, and nightveil spector is annoying if you don't kill it immediatly.
But I won against RWB, wasn't even a contest with the tablets. And since my creatures are so big he had to cast aurelia's fury for two and mizzium mortars to kill an alms beast.
So I'm changing up the list a bit. I think I'm going to try out more top end with 2 angel of serenity, lord of the void, and possibly treasury thrull. They should all give me card advantage against slower decks. And I still have the tablets, removal, and the sideboard for aggro. I'll post a list when I settle on one.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Yeah that's a way I imagine this deck losing, you don't pressure the control decks enough so they will just draw a million cards and gain a bunch of life and attrition you out. You essentially draw the wrong half of your deck.
As for suggestions for your decklist, I don't think you should be playing 4 underworld connections. Very rarely do you ever want 2. You could probably play some black 7 drop over them. I think sepulchral primordial might be better than lord of the void since it doesn't have to attack to get card advantage. Angel of serenity is also a fine choice but a nobo if you're playing rest in peace.
I don't think running 2 colors will make the deck stable enough to compensate for playing cards that are simply less good. I don't see why you aren't throwing red in the deck to open up very interesting solutions that will help the control matchup.
Slaughter Games, Dreadbore, Rakdos's Return, Rakdos Keyrune, etc.
So here's where I'm at with this deck. I decided to take this in a more white heavy direction.
4 - Godless Shrine
4 - Orzhov Guildgate
13 -Plains
4 - Swamp
Creatures:23
4 - Dryad Militant
4 - Precinct Captain
4 - Boros Reckoner
4 - Alms Beast
3 - Desecration Demon
4 - Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 - Orzhov Charm
4 - Devour Flesh
4 - Arrest
4 - High Priest of Penance
3 - Tablet of the Guilds
3 - Underworld Connections
1 - Desecration Demon
2 - Gideon, Champion of Justice
2 - Angel of Serenity
I'm not too sure on Dryad Militant. This deck is quite strong against jund aggro and mono red, and a lot of it has to do with the dryad being a turn one play. She trades with almost anything the aggro decks play, and certainly anything they play turn one or two. But agianst everything else, she's just too small. I've been siding her out in control, gwb, and naya matchups but leave her in against wbr just because she can be brought back by orzhov charm. I really wish there was something better I could be doing on turn one.
Looking at this list you'd probably think that arrest is the oddest removal card, and possibly the weakest in the deck. But it's deffinitely not. It's basically an o-ring for creatures, sure it can be abrupt decayed but that hasn't come up yet, besides it's better that that gets destroyed rather than a reckoner.
The most underwhelming card to me is Devour Flesh. When you are against creature light decks, it's incredible, but against decks that flood the field like mono red, it's not nearly as good, plus it interacts very badly with arrest, since they will just sacrifice the arrested creature. I really need targeted removal in this slot.
The other removal cards in my colors are:
Ultimate Price (very good against mono red, terrible against most other decks)
Executioner's Swing (hits everything but Angel of serenity, Alms Best, and desecration demon, basically orzhov charm 5-8)
Arrows of Justice (instant speed Mizzium Mortars)
Killing Glare (i'm afraid it's too slow)
Grisly Spectacle (again probably too slow)
Soul Tithe (doesn't actually get rid of important stuff, but stops the opponent from doing things)
avenging arrow (executioner's swing is probably better)
The ones I like the most out of that are Ultimate Price and Executioner's Swing. If those don't work out then I'll deffinitely try out Arrows of justice, but I really like having my removal at 2 cmc and I only have arrest because it can stop any creature besides Obzedat.
So what do you guys think of my new list and what removal I should use?
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
You run a lot of creatures, Blind Obedience would be a good way to slow down blockers against you. It's also good against the decks running Obzedat and against RDW too.
Why do you keep the Angel of Serenity in the sideboard? Do you think they are too slow for the RDW matchup? 1-2 maindeck shouldn't slow you down too much, and they are pure value.
I also like Gift of Orzhova going onto an Alms beast or demon...12pt swing can end a game.
Wish I had 3 more Ghost Councils, then I'd be running pretty much the same deck...love the demons & beasts.
You might be right about the removal, I really like Arrest because it's another non conditional removal of sorts. But it doesn't stop abilities that don't rely on conbat or activation to work such as trostani's life-gain. I've lost several games to trostani, maybe i'm just running into non-competitive decks in the practice room lately, but I've been seeing alot of selesnya aggro, which is wierd because they aren't placing in the dailies.
I never really liked blind obediance, against aggro you want to be removing a creature or playing your own on turn 2, not playing basically a do-nothing enchantment. Blind obediance is really something I'd rather be doing on turn 4-5 so that I can remove a creature or play one of my own in the same turn.
And against slower decks it's not really that great since they don't have many creatures to begin with. But I might try one or two just to see what it's like in this deck.
I had the angel in the sideboard because of mono red. But against all the other decks, there are alot of situations where I wish I could have drawn an angel so I'm moving those to the maindeck now.
The deck is the same except for -4 arrests +2 angel of serenity +2 Ultimate Price. If I add in blind obediance it will be over one of the Ultimate prices. And in place of the Angels in the sideboard I'm playing 2 grisly spectacle, just for more instant spot removal that doesn't have a downside for slower decks.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring