I'm no expert but I don't think BBE would function very well in this shell. Most games I've seen of DS decks like to have 2 or 3 lands in play. Hitting that 4th land drop to slap BBE down seems like it could be pretty tough. Who knows though, test it out and let us know!
I'm no expert but I don't think BBE would function very well in this shell. Most games I've seen of DS decks like to have 2 or 3 lands in play. Hitting that 4th land drop to slap BBE down seems like it could be pretty tough. Who knows though, test it out and let us know!
There is another thread about that version of the deck. We don't need to talk about that version in this thread as well.
A singleton Blooming Marsh perfectly fine, can't see complaining flipping that turn 4, and not any of the extra copies of Cliffs or a manland... turn 4 may not be the best turn to drop BBE anyway (Komplarens).
I am against Blooming Marsh, its another unneccessary card you can draw on your turn 4 as your fourth land. And I disagre that turn 4 is not the best time to play BBE, that cases Jadine talks about are more corner cases imo and I bet 95 % of the time we want to hit BBE ont turn 4. Its just too powerful and gets you so ahead on board and CA, it gets worse when you hit it later.
I'm with Spsiegel1987 on the 3 KCommand main. BBE into KCommand loops is insane. I never felt this dirty playing Jund. I also run 5 discard 1 Brutality, 1 LotH. However I have no room for Push anymore. I know I may get punish for it but I'm thoroughly impressed with LotH and 3 KCommands. If i'm playing into a trap, please talk me out of it.
These clunky blue decks with Cryptics and verdicts only run 24 lands, and yes, I realize serum visions cantrips and smooths out the deck...but man, Jund can't afford to see so much land.
These clunky blue decks with Cryptics and verdicts only run 24 lands, and yes, I realize serum visions cantrips and smooths out the deck...but man, Jund can't afford to see so much land.
Per 4 cantrips you can cut a land is the rule of thumb (Reference from Chapin's literature) so if they run 4 Cantrips they can cut a land, and actually a big portion of them still run 25 lands besides the cantrips. And to add, they also run Spreading Seas as cantrips which count.
If you think about it, a deck running potentially 4 Serum, 4 Spreading and 2 Search for Azcanta and still running 24 lands makes me certainly feel we need 25 lands.
That 25 land list by Reid is just his first sketched out list. We don't know if he'll keep it.
I'm so excited to see where Jund lists land.
I wonder if Jund will dominate GBx decks and reduce rocks diversity, or if Junk will be a good meta game deck. Maybe Junk with Gavony would be a good idea.
That 25 land list by Reid is just his first sketched out list. We don't know if he'll keep it.
I'm so excited to see where Jund lists land.
I wonder if Jund will dominate GBx decks and reduce rocks diversity, or if Junk will be a good meta game deck. Maybe Junk with Gavony would be a good idea.
As for midrange decks, I personally think Jund will be a top competitor alongside Mardu Pyromancer. That deck should be great vs Jace and Jund actually.
I'm running 24 lands now, cutting the 4th Bloodstained Mire for a Treetop Village. Not sure if I'd prefer a basic Mountain or Forest instead, I have been seeing a ton of Field of Ruin recently. The abundance of Blood Moon makes me want to run 2 Swamps 2 Forests so that BBE can be cast more reliably.
I'm running 24 lands now, cutting the 4th Bloodstained Mire for a Treetop Village. Not sure if I'd prefer a basic Mountain or Forest instead, I have been seeing a ton of Field of Ruin recently. The abundance of Blood Moon makes me want to run 2 Swamps 2 Forests so that BBE can be cast more reliably.
If you run 24 lands, I would absolutely not play treetop. At least not if you run 3 Ravines. That is beyong greediness in my opinion.
Mardu seems difficult to play, but I am impressed when I see it in action. The deck personally is not for me, though.
So, with Jund moving towards closer to 4-5 discard spells in the maindeck, how do you think this will effect us against combo? Do we really have the speed to do this? What about decks like Elves, where we really want to answer their cards before slamming down a threat?
I'm really curious if becoming more aggressive is good enough. I do enjoy not staring at a bunch of removal only to see an island from my opponent.
I'm running 24 lands now, cutting the 4th Bloodstained Mire for a Treetop Village. Not sure if I'd prefer a basic Mountain or Forest instead, I have been seeing a ton of Field of Ruin recently. The abundance of Blood Moon makes me want to run 2 Swamps 2 Forests so that BBE can be cast more reliably.
If you run 24 lands, I would absolutely not play treetop. At least not if you run 3 Ravines. That is beyong greediness in my opinion.
I've been goldfishing a ton today and I tend to agree. A significant number of times I've had the 4th land come in tapped and affect the flow. I kinda feel that it's risky to run that many tapped lands. One option I'm considering for the 24 landbase is - 1 Rara - 1 Bloodstained, + 1 Treetop + 1 Mountain, which puts me down 1 untapped turn 1 black source though (perhaps in this case, also cut 1 discard for a brutality?)
Mardu seems difficult to play, but I am impressed when I see it in action. The deck personally is not for me, though.
So, with Jund moving towards closer to 4-5 discard spells in the maindeck, how do you think this will effect us against combo? Do we really have the speed to do this? What about decks like Elves, where we really want to answer their cards before slamming down a threat?
I'm really curious if becoming more aggressive is good enough. I do enjoy not staring at a bunch of removal only to see an island from my opponent.
Mardu is great, I played it before the unbannings at last, always went 4-1 and 5-0 at my store, and in fact my store owner is atm in for top 8 competition at GPLyon with the deck.
I am proposing that we will see more TS/Duress in the sideboards as a result of that trend. I dont think combo matchups will get worse now. Maybe preboard a bit, but BBE also grants a good amount of tempo and speed, which is also great vs Combo (although it might get dicy if we tap out for BBE, admitted)
I'm running 24 lands now, cutting the 4th Bloodstained Mire for a Treetop Village. Not sure if I'd prefer a basic Mountain or Forest instead, I have been seeing a ton of Field of Ruin recently. The abundance of Blood Moon makes me want to run 2 Swamps 2 Forests so that BBE can be cast more reliably.
If you run 24 lands, I would absolutely not play treetop. At least not if you run 3 Ravines. That is beyong greediness in my opinion.
I've been goldfishing a ton today and I tend to agree. A significant number of times I've had the 4th land come in tapped and affect the flow. I kinda feel that it's risky to run that many tapped lands. One option I'm considering for the 24 landbase is - 1 Rara - 1 Bloodstained, + 1 Treetop + 1 Mountain, which puts me down 1 untapped turn 1 black source though (perhaps in this case, also cut 1 discard for a brutality?)
Just make sure you have at least 18-19 black sources for double black on turn 3.
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Wooded Foothills
Artifact (4)
4x Mishra's Bauble
Instant (8)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Temur Battle Rage
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Creature (16)
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
3x Collective Brutality
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Kozilek's Return
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Surgical Extraction
Post here to talk about that version of the deck.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
There is another thread about that version of the deck. We don't need to talk about that version in this thread as well.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Video up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiqQzTbG22Q
The 25 lands seemed to help him a lot, either by getting free cards through Bob, or powering up man lands like crazy.
I am against Blooming Marsh, its another unneccessary card you can draw on your turn 4 as your fourth land. And I disagre that turn 4 is not the best time to play BBE, that cases Jadine talks about are more corner cases imo and I bet 95 % of the time we want to hit BBE ont turn 4. Its just too powerful and gets you so ahead on board and CA, it gets worse when you hit it later.
These clunky blue decks with Cryptics and verdicts only run 24 lands, and yes, I realize serum visions cantrips and smooths out the deck...but man, Jund can't afford to see so much land.
We still want to have some answers for Goyfs, especially if you're cutting a pulse out of it.
Post your list?
Per 4 cantrips you can cut a land is the rule of thumb (Reference from Chapin's literature) so if they run 4 Cantrips they can cut a land, and actually a big portion of them still run 25 lands besides the cantrips. And to add, they also run Spreading Seas as cantrips which count.
If you think about it, a deck running potentially 4 Serum, 4 Spreading and 2 Search for Azcanta and still running 24 lands makes me certainly feel we need 25 lands.
I'm so excited to see where Jund lists land.
I wonder if Jund will dominate GBx decks and reduce rocks diversity, or if Junk will be a good meta game deck. Maybe Junk with Gavony would be a good idea.
As for midrange decks, I personally think Jund will be a top competitor alongside Mardu Pyromancer. That deck should be great vs Jace and Jund actually.
If you run 24 lands, I would absolutely not play treetop. At least not if you run 3 Ravines. That is beyong greediness in my opinion.
So, with Jund moving towards closer to 4-5 discard spells in the maindeck, how do you think this will effect us against combo? Do we really have the speed to do this? What about decks like Elves, where we really want to answer their cards before slamming down a threat?
I'm really curious if becoming more aggressive is good enough. I do enjoy not staring at a bunch of removal only to see an island from my opponent.
I've been goldfishing a ton today and I tend to agree. A significant number of times I've had the 4th land come in tapped and affect the flow. I kinda feel that it's risky to run that many tapped lands. One option I'm considering for the 24 landbase is - 1 Rara - 1 Bloodstained, + 1 Treetop + 1 Mountain, which puts me down 1 untapped turn 1 black source though (perhaps in this case, also cut 1 discard for a brutality?)
Mardu is great, I played it before the unbannings at last, always went 4-1 and 5-0 at my store, and in fact my store owner is atm in for top 8 competition at GPLyon with the deck.
I am proposing that we will see more TS/Duress in the sideboards as a result of that trend. I dont think combo matchups will get worse now. Maybe preboard a bit, but BBE also grants a good amount of tempo and speed, which is also great vs Combo (although it might get dicy if we tap out for BBE, admitted)
Just make sure you have at least 18-19 black sources for double black on turn 3.