Is anyone else worried that in grindy matchups our curve with 4 BBE and 4 BOB might be painful? Especially with only 2 oozes for lifegain? I'm thinking about 3 Bob 2 Flayer 3 BBE split.. Since im really interested in the flayer/BBE interaction. Opinions?
So I think we go down(or stay at depending on your build) to 4 fastlands(a playset of Cliffs, dropping any Blooming Marshes we might have been playing) and play a full 9 fetches. Possibly 10 and going down to 2 Ravines for a better chance to have access to 4 mana on turn 4. We also include the full set of bolts BUT and I think this is where some people might disagree with me; Inquisition will be a 1-of and so will Fatal Push. We start maindecking 2x Collective Brutality because it's an excellent cascade target as well as extra main deck lifegain to offset the higher curve BBE calls for. Sideboard also changes a bit but the particular one I'm going with is for my local meta that's very low on GY decks.
Your list has 17 black sources. I think that's not enough by our "centralized BGx midrange" standards to reliably cast liliana on turn 3
Dunno about FoR
Is Anger of the Gods not worthy of a sideboard slot anymore? Clutch card against Collected Company decks. Looks good vs Human Tribal and it can be quite good against Affinity.
Why shouldnt it be? Anger is a card I always like to have 1-2 copies in my SB if the meta is right for it.
The list plays 25 lands, so that it can play it's spells reliably with a high curve. Focuses on B/R lands early to play out thoughtseizes and bolts against the matches that count. I think this is the right strategy going forward.
Upgrades would include KCommand, Abrupt Decay, and different lands such as on-color fetches.
Choosing the right 3-drops will help stabilize the game while also hedging against other decks. This is the route I'm taking
Remember, the list is very old haha. For my approach, there's going to be huge changes to the manabase, and KCommand and Abrupt Decay have to show up in the main somewhere. This is what I'm kinda settling on for the first part of my testing...
I'm not by any means saying that this is the way to go, but it's how I'll be doing things right away until there's some proven results We'll see how it goes though. It could be a total flop.
I am not a fan of maindecking Finks. Certainly not as a playset and not in place of Ooze. I think 1-2 Ooze is still cards that we want.
Finks is certainly a good SB tool in grindy matchups and against Control. But I dont think we want to clog up 3 drops into the deck. Especially with only 24 lands. You would need to at least run 25 lands for that.
If we cut ooze id replace it with flayer. Not that I'm recommending that
I'm really curious to see where this whole deck goes. I don't know. Thoughts of hierarchy, finks and that jazz wouldn't shock me. Turn 2 lotv and turn 3 bbe.
That list I posted initiall was Reid Dukes take on a BBE Jund list which he mentioned in his articles series in the commend section. However he very well will likely go deeper into this now, and his take likely changes then.
If we ever would run a dork, I think we can only do it with DRS. Hierach is just bad as it produces green mana. Noway that would be a consideration imo.
I think we 100% keep scooze MD. Lifegain, GY hate, and a threat for only 2 mana is too good to pass up. It’s also good to get him off of a cascade.
Urborg also helps against aggressive matchups like Burn, because you can tap your fetch lands for black mana and don’t have to hurt yourself for mana. I’ve always liked Urborg in this deck, but I also like to run 1-3 Colorless lands, and am going to try out field of ruin.
Does Thrun make a comeback to our sideboard? He shines against Jace control and the mirror match.
I don’t understand dreadbore over maelstrom pulse. Yeah, we don’t want to run too many 3 drops, but pulse hits lingering souls, blood moon, search for azcanta, cranial plating, Rest In Peace, 2 wurmcoil tokens, ensnaring bridge, intangible virtue, bitterblossom, etc.
I also think we want Golgari charm in our SB. Supreme Verdict, Search for Azcanta, and lingering souls will all see an increase in play and GC answers all of them, in addition to 1/1s in affinity/humans/elves, RIP, Blood Moon, intangible virtue, bitterblossom, etc.
You may be wondering why I keep bringing up BW tokens cards; it’s because I predict BW tokens will see an increase in play because it has good matchups against Jund and Jace control. BW tokens may not have been especially strong when we last had BBE but the deck didn’t have Bitterblossom, fatal push, concealed courtyard, and Sorin, solemn visitor back then.
I also think Hatebears will see an increase in play because it matches up well against both decks, so I’ll be doing a 3/1 split of my Lilies. Be careful of your opponent putting a Loxodon Smiter of Wilt-Leaf Liege on the battlefield after you make them discard with LOTV or KC. Hatebears also preys on big mana decks, which will rise to prey on Jund and control.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
How many Kitchen Finks/Fulminator Mages were you running? I've always found those to be the most important cards against Colonnade decks because they're so hard to answer 1-for-1, and don't just roll over to Supreme Verdict. Would you mind posting the 75 that you tested with, and how you sideboarded?
Idk guys... I think Finks is just better than ooze now that we have BBE. We'll be tapping out more often for our four mana queen, which means we won't access mana to be eating the graveyard.
Nothing against the ooze, but putting kitchen finks back in the deck gives us more inevitability. If we REALLY want value with our KCommands, this is how we do it. I think the card advantage we get out of our Ouphe's will be more valuable than the graveyard interaction we get out of Scavenging Ooze.
Especially now that we're expecting a Jace and BBE format. Scavenging Ooze vs Jace is awful, and it's one of our worst creatures in the mirror.
Did you sideboard? Lily, K command, pulse, bolt, inquisition, TS, duress, collective brutality, kitchen finks, fulminator mage, etc. all seem like good cascade targets for BBE against Jace control.
Also, if you have a bob/goyf/scooze in hand and BBE cascades into a creature and they board wipe you can play your threat after the board wipe.
Dunno about FoR
But other than the land cards look great
This talk about Bob hurting you too much is silly. Jund is not the deck for you if you're worried about Bob.
Fatal Push is about to get a lot worse in modern, due to Jace destroying delve creatures and Shadow decks having the nightmare control matchups
Eldrazi Tron is probably going to be fantastic in this new meta
Squeezing in FoR in Jund is just plain silly, guys. You think cutting Ravines out with Jace is a smart thing? Come on.
Talk about 4 thoughtseizes is nonsense.
Kitchen Finks could end up coming back to Jund, I truly have no clue.
Grim shouldn't be dismissed, but I'll be betting on Bob.
Why shouldnt it be? Anger is a card I always like to have 1-2 copies in my SB if the meta is right for it.
MD = Maindeck
All things depending, this might not be too big of a problem if you include the right 3-drops. I'm building my new list off of Yuuya Watanabe's list.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Jund Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Terminate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Treetop Village
3 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
The list plays 25 lands, so that it can play it's spells reliably with a high curve. Focuses on B/R lands early to play out thoughtseizes and bolts against the matches that count. I think this is the right strategy going forward.
Upgrades would include KCommand, Abrupt Decay, and different lands such as on-color fetches.
Choosing the right 3-drops will help stabilize the game while also hedging against other decks. This is the route I'm taking
No, people need to stop jamming all these 3 cmc cards in.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
We still need to be able to take down Tarmogoyfs, Gurmag Anglers, Death's Shadows, Eldrazis, etc.
Would Oozes be leaving maindeck? This way we would be able to include hefty amount of Terminate/Dreadbore/Pulse in addition to bolts and Kommands.
Remember, the list is very old haha. For my approach, there's going to be huge changes to the manabase, and KCommand and Abrupt Decay have to show up in the main somewhere. This is what I'm kinda settling on for the first part of my testing...
4 Dark Confidant
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blooming Marsh
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Forest
I'm not by any means saying that this is the way to go, but it's how I'll be doing things right away until there's some proven results We'll see how it goes though. It could be a total flop.
Finks is certainly a good SB tool in grindy matchups and against Control. But I dont think we want to clog up 3 drops into the deck. Especially with only 24 lands. You would need to at least run 25 lands for that.
I'm really curious to see where this whole deck goes. I don't know. Thoughts of hierarchy, finks and that jazz wouldn't shock me. Turn 2 lotv and turn 3 bbe.
I'm eagerly awaiting what Reid duke says
If we ever would run a dork, I think we can only do it with DRS. Hierach is just bad as it produces green mana. Noway that would be a consideration imo.
Modern
B 8rack B
G Aggro Elves G
U W Ad Nauseam BR
G Gr Tron R
U U Tron U
B Monoblack Vampires B
BGR Jund BGR
Urborg also helps against aggressive matchups like Burn, because you can tap your fetch lands for black mana and don’t have to hurt yourself for mana. I’ve always liked Urborg in this deck, but I also like to run 1-3 Colorless lands, and am going to try out field of ruin.
Does Thrun make a comeback to our sideboard? He shines against Jace control and the mirror match.
I don’t understand dreadbore over maelstrom pulse. Yeah, we don’t want to run too many 3 drops, but pulse hits lingering souls, blood moon, search for azcanta, cranial plating, Rest In Peace, 2 wurmcoil tokens, ensnaring bridge, intangible virtue, bitterblossom, etc.
I also think we want Golgari charm in our SB. Supreme Verdict, Search for Azcanta, and lingering souls will all see an increase in play and GC answers all of them, in addition to 1/1s in affinity/humans/elves, RIP, Blood Moon, intangible virtue, bitterblossom, etc.
You may be wondering why I keep bringing up BW tokens cards; it’s because I predict BW tokens will see an increase in play because it has good matchups against Jund and Jace control. BW tokens may not have been especially strong when we last had BBE but the deck didn’t have Bitterblossom, fatal push, concealed courtyard, and Sorin, solemn visitor back then.
I also think Hatebears will see an increase in play because it matches up well against both decks, so I’ll be doing a 3/1 split of my Lilies. Be careful of your opponent putting a Loxodon Smiter of Wilt-Leaf Liege on the battlefield after you make them discard with LOTV or KC. Hatebears also preys on big mana decks, which will rise to prey on Jund and control.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Nothing against the ooze, but putting kitchen finks back in the deck gives us more inevitability. If we REALLY want value with our KCommands, this is how we do it. I think the card advantage we get out of our Ouphe's will be more valuable than the graveyard interaction we get out of Scavenging Ooze.
Especially now that we're expecting a Jace and BBE format. Scavenging Ooze vs Jace is awful, and it's one of our worst creatures in the mirror.
Also, if you have a bob/goyf/scooze in hand and BBE cascades into a creature and they board wipe you can play your threat after the board wipe.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB