I don't think Cryptic is that great since everyone is boarding 2-3 Dispel now, and honestly this deck crushes BGx ("BBE counters JtMS", good one WotC). If you get a Jace online, playing multiple cheap spells a turn is also more powerful than getting to play one big one.
I really dislike Miracle cards, I do not think it is really viable in Modern. It very often happens that I StW for 2-4 tokens the first time, to save me some life with chumpblocks, or in response to a discard spell, or just EoT vs attrition to make use of my mana more efficiently. It's generally the second snapcastered StW that is meant to go for the kill. StW's power lies in its flexibility entirely and Entreat the Angels does not have this function
If mana was an issue I'd start with replacing a Field of Ruins before a Colonnade; it's the best manland in Modern and especially with all this attrition going on I'd probably play 5 if I was allowed to
I'm still inbetween Staticaster and Engineered Explosives in the side; reasoning for EE over it is that you cant Azcanta into Staticaster, and EE helps vs Lantern.
I have to agree with a lot of your points, but I think colonnade is getting worse for jeskai, as well as Spirebluff Canal.. With the tempo of the deck in adding JtMS it is important that every turn we are able to play a land that enters untapped so that you can turn one scry/spell snare, 2 have response, 3 for vendillion clique or electrolyze, and then four into jace or cryptic.. If you are running four colonnade and 1-2 spirebluff you are running a far greater risk of not following that curve
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
well i think colonnade is becoming less of a factor in many matchups because field of ruin is showing up everywhere
a single spirebluff canal seems alright if you are expecting to run into burn/fast aggro. having pain free lands in the early game that get your colors online is important. fetching to get RW and UU online for helix and logic knot is brutal.
i dont agree that those lands are worse because the reason you stated. curving into a turn 4 jace isn't the primary objective of the deck. if you happen to trade 1-for-1 and have a stable position/boardstate going into turn 4 then that is great, but if it doesnt that is fine too.
you just want to get to a point where you are at parity (or advantaged) with your opponent, then slam jace to shut the door on them. whether that happens on turn 4 or turn 20 is sorta irrelevant. jace coming down on turn 5-6+ with mana up to protect him seems more of a reasonable expectation of how games might play out.
of course that doesn't mean you should never play jace when you are behind. sometimes you need to find answers and your best line is to pay 4 mana for basically a brainstorm + fog.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Well I'm not running Spirebluffs, so that's one problem less
I still think Colonnades are invaluable for grindy decks in Modern, I don't see myself cutting one. I'd go down to 3 if the meta turns out extremely aggressive, but this has not been the case so far.
You know that stores can sanction tournaments of any format, even made up ones....
Saying "You know that modern tournament this weekend? You can play jace/bbe then." isn't really much of a stretch.
I wouldn't cut Electrolyze now. It's a good card vs both BBE and Jace (along with Bolt or Helix), it's also good vs Lingering Souls that's likely gonna show up more now since it's good vs both BBE and Jace. I wouldn't be surprised if Jund just throws a Godless Shrine somewhere to add some Lingering Souls and have one more good target for BBE. I'd still run one or two copies of it.
Not sold about Clique yet, because along with Lingering Souls and maybe Electrolyzes, Kolaghan's Command is probably gonna see a lot more play now with BBE on Jund, and Clique is just a juicy target for it. Even Liliana, the Last Hope is likely to see more play, and she kills Clique easily too. I bet Jund'll try to chain BBEs into Kommands and Lillys for the grind.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Quick question for the Jeskai hive mind we have here..
Before I spend the 30$ or trade anything in, what is everyone's opinion on Vendilion Clique in the main/sideboard post Jace? Do we think it has increased in potential? I feel stupid because I traded two in to my LGS before Jace was unbanned because it was underperforming in a lot of matches but now I feel like that may be changed. Wondering if anyone has any insight?
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Cliques are good if not slightly better with jtms, ostensibly; protecting your own and pressuring the opponents...
Why would Clique be less good? They already were good before, so unless you needed the money for bills, selling them would be a puzzling move to start with.
Quick question for the Jeskai hive mind we have here..
Before I spend the 30$ or trade anything in, what is everyone's opinion on Vendilion Clique in the main/sideboard post Jace? Do we think it has increased in potential? I feel stupid because I traded two in to my LGS before Jace was unbanned because it was underperforming in a lot of matches but now I feel like that may be changed. Wondering if anyone has any insight?
By God, man, go get your Clique back! It's better with JTMS in the format and was good beforehand.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Quick question for the Jeskai hive mind we have here..
Before I spend the 30$ or trade anything in, what is everyone's opinion on Vendilion Clique in the main/sideboard post Jace? Do we think it has increased in potential? I feel stupid because I traded two in to my LGS before Jace was unbanned because it was underperforming in a lot of matches but now I feel like that may be changed. Wondering if anyone has any insight?
If you want to play control, always have a pair of V. Cliques in your "not-for-trade" binder. One way or another, there will be points where you'll need them.
Myself and a couple of Discord people have been brainstorming a list without Serum Visions, which i think I'll use for week one and two because of the prevalence of Tron. Can't link the list because I'm on mobile, but it's three Jaces, 3 Field of Ruin on 25 lands, and a few Spreading Seas. I can post a list in about an hour, but I wanted to tell you guys about it regardless
I'm not sure Clique is better now. At least not on Jeskai that shouldn't have a hard time removing opposing Jaces. I think Clique is great vs combo decks for it's combination of disruption + clock, but combos are likely gonna have a hard time now that Jund'll likely be one of the major players on the format. So... they should see less play now.
Jund and Grixis'll likely gonna play a lot of Kommands to chain with BBE and Snapcasters. Grixis and Jeskais might play some Electrolyzes as well, because it's very good vs BBE and reasonable against JTMS. Bolt'll likely see much more play now as well, for fighting Jaces. The Black Grindy decks seem to be playing more Liliana, the Last Hope as well. Lingering Souls could see more play as well. Could be in Esper, maybe a white splash in Jund, or even a come back from BW or Esper Tokens who happens to be a really good deck vs Controls and Jund. If the metagame is shifting towards grindy games, LS are probably gonna show up somewhere. And these are all bad news for Clique.
What could make Clique good now is to try to force your own Jace in the Blue Mirrors, and maybe to try to pressure opponent's Jace, which Jeskai should be good at anyways. You play Clique on their end step, take out their counter, and than play JTMS safely on your turn. The fact that it curves perfectly is really sweet.
However, I don't think it's better now on Jeskai. I think it should be better on Jace decks that don't play R, like UW, Esper, Sultai, UB, etc., because they might need some good options to try to beat opponent's Jaces.
Hypothetically, what can Jeskai Control do to have an ok-ish game #1 vs G/Eldrazi Tron? Less removal and counters main? V.Cliques main? Or should I just hope to dodge it?
Hi zcowan
Nice Jeskai list that you are running.
Have you decided which 2 cards you cut and can you post the complete list you are currently playing with?
Myself and a couple of Discord people have been brainstorming a list without Serum Visions, which i think I'll use for week one and two because of the prevalence of Tron. Can't link the list because I'm on mobile, but it's three Jaces, 3 Field of Ruin on 25 lands, and a few Spreading Seas. I can post a list in about an hour, but I wanted to tell you guys about it regardless
That seems like a bad idea to me; I think SV is too good to cut, and using Seas over it just to beat tron is being too hyperfocussed on just one matchup. Do you think that tron is 20% of the meta? Probably not, and even if it was that high 4 out of 5 opponents would still be playing something else. If you really want to beat Tron in a Jace shell, go UW with 4 Seas, 4 SV and 4 FoR.
I should really jump in the Discord group sometime, the Jace unban just brings up so many new possibilities. I just haven't had the time to really sit down for it in the last week, lol.
I think the link on ye last page is still active, LMK if it's not. I agree that it's probably a bad idea, but it seemed decent when we played a warmup league with it so we decided to innovate further. There's a video of one of my mods playing it in a league at www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
the idea to cut 1 mana cantrips comes up every so often.
its a power vs. consistency trade-off. the better your draw is the less there is a need for cantrips. so it becomes easy to theorycraft the deck to the point where you ask yourself why you arent just playing more 'answer' cards.
the reality ends up being that you lose equity on those games with below average draws, resulting in a net loss for your win percentage.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I have to agree with a lot of your points, but I think colonnade is getting worse for jeskai, as well as Spirebluff Canal.. With the tempo of the deck in adding JtMS it is important that every turn we are able to play a land that enters untapped so that you can turn one scry/spell snare, 2 have response, 3 for vendillion clique or electrolyze, and then four into jace or cryptic.. If you are running four colonnade and 1-2 spirebluff you are running a far greater risk of not following that curve
a single spirebluff canal seems alright if you are expecting to run into burn/fast aggro. having pain free lands in the early game that get your colors online is important. fetching to get RW and UU online for helix and logic knot is brutal.
i dont agree that those lands are worse because the reason you stated. curving into a turn 4 jace isn't the primary objective of the deck. if you happen to trade 1-for-1 and have a stable position/boardstate going into turn 4 then that is great, but if it doesnt that is fine too.
you just want to get to a point where you are at parity (or advantaged) with your opponent, then slam jace to shut the door on them. whether that happens on turn 4 or turn 20 is sorta irrelevant. jace coming down on turn 5-6+ with mana up to protect him seems more of a reasonable expectation of how games might play out.
of course that doesn't mean you should never play jace when you are behind. sometimes you need to find answers and your best line is to pay 4 mana for basically a brainstorm + fog.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I still think Colonnades are invaluable for grindy decks in Modern, I don't see myself cutting one. I'd go down to 3 if the meta turns out extremely aggressive, but this has not been the case so far.
tokens on the rise seems like a natural response to grind down jund decks. as control i know i wouldnt want to face down faeries
also if you check out the jund thread a lot of the lists are cutting abrupt decays, so more Search for Azcanta makes sense.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Saying "You know that modern tournament this weekend? You can play jace/bbe then." isn't really much of a stretch.
Not sold about Clique yet, because along with Lingering Souls and maybe Electrolyzes, Kolaghan's Command is probably gonna see a lot more play now with BBE on Jund, and Clique is just a juicy target for it. Even Liliana, the Last Hope is likely to see more play, and she kills Clique easily too. I bet Jund'll try to chain BBEs into Kommands and Lillys for the grind.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Before I spend the 30$ or trade anything in, what is everyone's opinion on Vendilion Clique in the main/sideboard post Jace? Do we think it has increased in potential? I feel stupid because I traded two in to my LGS before Jace was unbanned because it was underperforming in a lot of matches but now I feel like that may be changed. Wondering if anyone has any insight?
Why would Clique be less good? They already were good before, so unless you needed the money for bills, selling them would be a puzzling move to start with.
By God, man, go get your Clique back! It's better with JTMS in the format and was good beforehand.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Jund and Grixis'll likely gonna play a lot of Kommands to chain with BBE and Snapcasters. Grixis and Jeskais might play some Electrolyzes as well, because it's very good vs BBE and reasonable against JTMS. Bolt'll likely see much more play now as well, for fighting Jaces. The Black Grindy decks seem to be playing more Liliana, the Last Hope as well. Lingering Souls could see more play as well. Could be in Esper, maybe a white splash in Jund, or even a come back from BW or Esper Tokens who happens to be a really good deck vs Controls and Jund. If the metagame is shifting towards grindy games, LS are probably gonna show up somewhere. And these are all bad news for Clique.
What could make Clique good now is to try to force your own Jace in the Blue Mirrors, and maybe to try to pressure opponent's Jace, which Jeskai should be good at anyways. You play Clique on their end step, take out their counter, and than play JTMS safely on your turn. The fact that it curves perfectly is really sweet.
However, I don't think it's better now on Jeskai. I think it should be better on Jace decks that don't play R, like UW, Esper, Sultai, UB, etc., because they might need some good options to try to beat opponent's Jaces.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Hypothetically, what can Jeskai Control do to have an ok-ish game #1 vs G/Eldrazi Tron? Less removal and counters main? V.Cliques main? Or should I just hope to dodge it?
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
GUSimic MerfolkUG
WUUW ControlUW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
BUUB MillUB
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
WRBurnRW
GUSimic MerfolkUG
UMono U TurnsU
WGGenesis Wave EnchantressGW
Nice Jeskai list that you are running.
Have you decided which 2 cards you cut and can you post the complete list you are currently playing with?
That seems like a bad idea to me; I think SV is too good to cut, and using Seas over it just to beat tron is being too hyperfocussed on just one matchup. Do you think that tron is 20% of the meta? Probably not, and even if it was that high 4 out of 5 opponents would still be playing something else. If you really want to beat Tron in a Jace shell, go UW with 4 Seas, 4 SV and 4 FoR.
I should really jump in the Discord group sometime, the Jace unban just brings up so many new possibilities. I just haven't had the time to really sit down for it in the last week, lol.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
its a power vs. consistency trade-off. the better your draw is the less there is a need for cantrips. so it becomes easy to theorycraft the deck to the point where you ask yourself why you arent just playing more 'answer' cards.
the reality ends up being that you lose equity on those games with below average draws, resulting in a net loss for your win percentage.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Also, does anyone have the discord link for jeskai? I can't find it on the previous pages.
Link is here.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One