In my experience you want four bolts because they are actually useful in multiple and you always want to see at least two in the matchups you board them in. Blood moon is generally a three of because you want to have enough in your deck to draw one, but only one.
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I would personally want three empty. I would shave an echoing truth for it. Why shattering spree over shatterstorm? I usually run a 1/2 spree/storm or three storms.
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I would personally want three empty. I would shave an echoing truth for it. Why shattering spree over shatterstorm? I usually run a 1/2 spree/storm or three storms.
I figured I liked the ability to destroy a single artifact for R if I needed to.
I think affinity is the only deck id use either against anyway.
Shattering spree is really only useful as a tempo play, keeps them from killing us on turn three while we set up. Shatterstorm just wrecks them. just have to watch out for the couple lists that run spell pierce. I do like the flexibility of shattering spree, but since it has replicate is isn't that useful in multiples. Which is why I usually do the 1/2 split. I have have really been liking the three shatterstorm. I have quite a bit of affinity in my meta and its worked really well for me.
Edit: forgot to specify that it just wrecks the plating and ravager side.
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Winning via Thought Scour, when you're opponent is at infinite life or has an Angel's Grace in hand, is something I think would be cool to see in the primer. Any thoughts?
That seems interesting, I personally would say scour is better for our ascension plan because it digs two deep then replaces itself. It also gives us a (rare) alternate win-con, but I will have to test to be sure. I really want to know what was going through their head when they made that sideboard. Seems kind of all over the place.
Winning via Thought Scour, when you're opponent is at infinite life or has an Angel's Grace in hand, is something I think would be cool to see in the primer. Any thoughts?
It is mentioned in this primer under thought scour under card draw. In my experience it doesn't come up very often, and even when it does it takes a bit of setup. So ad Naus probably combos first and we get one turn against pod when they gain infinite life.
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That seems interesting, I personally would say scour is better for our ascension plan because it digs two deep then replaces itself. It also gives us a (rare) alternate win-con, but I will have to test to be sure. I really want to know what was going through their head when they made that sideboard. Seems kind of all over the place.
Winning via Thought Scour, when you're opponent is at infinite life or has an Angel's Grace in hand, is something I think would be cool to see in the primer. Any thoughts?
It is mentioned in this primer under thought scour under card draw. In my experience it doesn't come up very often, and even when it does it takes a bit of setup. So ad Naus probably combos first and we get one turn against pod when they gain infinite life.
yeah but looting digs us 2 cards deep and allows us to decide what we discard. having that choice can lead us to having an active ascention sooner
I'm of the opinion that having the extra card is more likely to get our ascension online than choosing what to discard. I believe that looting leads to faster goldfishing but that thought scour provides better consistency by just having the extra benefit of replacing itself, which with how many four ofs we run, it is likely that we will hit something to help with our ascension. And having access to a (albeit a bit crappy) plan B is nice. I still plan on testing it next tournament I go to.
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If you are flashing back looting outside of past in flames you are probably desperate for something. If your hand requires turn one looting turn three you probably should have mulliganed that hand. Red mana cost is usually only relevant on the combo turn. Also the issue I have always had with looting while it can improve the quality of your hand, it always leaves you down a card in a deck that is built around critical mass. Looting is also really bad against B/G/X decks. Which is already a bad matchup. I don't think looting is a bad card, and that half the combo field seems to like it, I just feel you can do better.
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Winning via Thought Scour, when you're opponent is at infinite life or has an Angel's Grace in hand, is something I think would be cool to see in the primer. Any thoughts?
It is mentioned in this primer under thought scour under card draw. In my experience it doesn't come up very often, and even when it does it takes a bit of setup. So ad Naus probably combos first and we get one turn against pod when they gain infinite life.
It doesn't really take as much set up as you make out, it's no secret that Storm snowballs into drawing its entire deck in one turn if it needs to to. Ad Naus, Scapeshift, and Melira Pod are real enough decks to consider at least goldfishing a few games with a mill win condition in mind. It's not that different of a strategy that switching mid-game from trying to Grapeshot will screw you. After board, Thought Scour a lot of times comes out against them, but if it means you win a game you should have lost it's worth it in my opinion.
After initially laughing about the things that need to go seemingly right for a Thought Scour kill, I realized that its not as far fetched as you'd think. The primer I feel could go into more detail about this, because there's a lot of ways to make the variance end up in your favor.
When transitioning to a Thought Scour kill, you have to keep a few things in mind:
Cards in your own library is the biggest issue; kind of an embarrassment of riches, but you often times need to mill them for 44, 46 which means you need to start Thought Scouring when you have 22, 23 cards in library. You might think, "well you have to have your Ascensions in the top half of your deck to pull it off," but there's ways to get around this.
Serum Visions is an excellent draw spell here because you get to put 2 cards at the bottom when you don't hit an Ascension or Thought Scour, effectively getting you 3 cards closer to more Ascensions while only drawing 1 card. Sleight of Hand is similar, you have a bit more control over the card you draw, but you only see 2 cards. Cracking fetches while you're searching is obviously something you want to avoid unless an Ascension is at the bottom and you need to draw one.
You can get to the minimum number of cards in your library with only two active Ascensions out and a couple Thought Scours in hand and still pull it off. It's a fair estimate that the bottom ~10 or so cards will not be a Thought Scour because of Visions and Sleight, so once you start casting Scours they'll draw you into your remaining ones.
Ascension copies are a may ability, use Manamorphose to filter into the minimum number of blue you need and the minimum number of copies of Thought Scour to prevent you from drawing yourself out.
The best way to activate Ascension is to use Rituals, Grapeshot, redundant Past in Flames, or Manamorphose when you need blue. Rituals, Grapeshot, and Past in Flames don't draw you cards.
Do the math. 8 Thought Scours with 2 active Ascensions out mills for 48, 6 Thought Scours with 3 active Ascension out as gets 48. Quickly consider what number of each will work for the situation you're in.
Cards in your own library is the biggest issue; kind of an embarrassment of riches, but you often times need to mill them for 44, 46 which means you need to start Thought Scouring when you have 22, 23 cards in library. You might think, "well you have to have your Ascensions in the top half of your deck to pull it off," but there's ways to get around this.
I think this is the hardest thing for new storm players with this kill. There are also the scenarios where you are just setting up and are limited on thought scours because you have already used one or two for setup it sometimes gets pretty close. Sometimes you also just don't have enough time to set up. I do think it is a good win-con to goldfish a couple times, you want to be able to do it.
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I personally like the Grapeshot kill because if it looks you're going to fizzle, you can Grapeshot their board to buy more turns. Thought Scour is a decent alt wincon, though it's dead against Tron and the Goryo's Vengeance combo deck (can't remember what it's called ATM).
hey everyone, ive found myself in a bit of a predicament as it looks like i wont be able to borrow fetches this weekend, so im trying to think up an alternate 16 land base for finkel storm. what i cant decide on is the number of mana confluence to include. im going to list them out here with my reasoning, and if you have an opinion id be happy to hear it!
1) not killing myself but awkward
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 2 sulfur falls, 4 islands, 2 mountains
the least painful manabase, but can lead to some awkward opening hands, especially with 2 mountains
2) the politicians balance
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 1 sulfur falls, 2 mana confluence, 4 islands, 1 mountain
cleans it up a bit, the one sulfur falls looks bad now with only 9 lands that bring it in untapped.
3) more Novocain please
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 3 mana confluence, 4 island, 1 mountain
gets rid of that pesky falls, but this is starting to hurt now.
4) trying to be rocky in the 14th round against apollo creed ("what is keeping him up Jim?")
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 4 mana confluence, 3 island, 1 mountain
essentially a fetchland manabase except you have more painful duals instead of fetches.... hey, confluence only deals as much damage as cracking a tarn right... right?
probably going to make my decision sometime tomorrow, want to get at least a solid day of goldfishing in before the big show. thanks for the input
If I had to pick any of those four I would probably pick the first, but with an extra sulfur falls instead of that mountain. It would make the hands potentially slow but at least more keepable. I would try goldfishing with all of them and see which one you like the best. Some people don't mind the pressure of extra painlands, and others like to be able to play slower. Do you have any idea what your meta is? If its slower matchups the mostly painful manabase might not be awful.
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unfortunately the meta is gp boston... so its everything lol (im sure there will be a strong portion of twin, pod, and affinity). i dont think i mind the pressure of painlands because if everything goes smoothly the deck should go off on 4 at the latest, sometimes 3
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3 Blood Moon or 4? (I really like this card)
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4 Lightning Bolt
3 Blood Moon
3 Echoing Truth
2 Empty the Warrens
3 Shattering Spree
I wish I could just play 4x of every instant / sorcery for Ascension but that would be asking for to much
Therefore, Empty is the one I chose to cut to 2. However I am open to other possibilities
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I figured I liked the ability to destroy a single artifact for R if I needed to.
I think affinity is the only deck id use either against anyway.
i saw this deck list that takes the debate of looting vs thought scour into an interesting turn
Edit: forgot to specify that it just wrecks the plating and ravager side.
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That seems interesting, I personally would say scour is better for our ascension plan because it digs two deep then replaces itself. It also gives us a (rare) alternate win-con, but I will have to test to be sure. I really want to know what was going through their head when they made that sideboard. Seems kind of all over the place.
It is mentioned in this primer under thought scour under card draw. In my experience it doesn't come up very often, and even when it does it takes a bit of setup. So ad Naus probably combos first and we get one turn against pod when they gain infinite life.
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yeah but looting digs us 2 cards deep and allows us to decide what we discard. having that choice can lead us to having an active ascention sooner
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UBR TES
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UBWR Ad nauseam
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It doesn't really take as much set up as you make out, it's no secret that Storm snowballs into drawing its entire deck in one turn if it needs to to. Ad Naus, Scapeshift, and Melira Pod are real enough decks to consider at least goldfishing a few games with a mill win condition in mind. It's not that different of a strategy that switching mid-game from trying to Grapeshot will screw you. After board, Thought Scour a lot of times comes out against them, but if it means you win a game you should have lost it's worth it in my opinion.
After initially laughing about the things that need to go seemingly right for a Thought Scour kill, I realized that its not as far fetched as you'd think. The primer I feel could go into more detail about this, because there's a lot of ways to make the variance end up in your favor.
When transitioning to a Thought Scour kill, you have to keep a few things in mind:
I think this is the hardest thing for new storm players with this kill. There are also the scenarios where you are just setting up and are limited on thought scours because you have already used one or two for setup it sometimes gets pretty close. Sometimes you also just don't have enough time to set up. I do think it is a good win-con to goldfish a couple times, you want to be able to do it.
UBR TES
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UBWR Ad nauseam
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UBR TES
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(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
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1) not killing myself but awkward
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 2 sulfur falls, 4 islands, 2 mountains
the least painful manabase, but can lead to some awkward opening hands, especially with 2 mountains
2) the politicians balance
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 1 sulfur falls, 2 mana confluence, 4 islands, 1 mountain
cleans it up a bit, the one sulfur falls looks bad now with only 9 lands that bring it in untapped.
3) more Novocain please
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 3 mana confluence, 4 island, 1 mountain
gets rid of that pesky falls, but this is starting to hurt now.
4) trying to be rocky in the 14th round against apollo creed ("what is keeping him up Jim?")
4 shivan reefs, 4 steam vents, 4 mana confluence, 3 island, 1 mountain
essentially a fetchland manabase except you have more painful duals instead of fetches.... hey, confluence only deals as much damage as cracking a tarn right... right?
probably going to make my decision sometime tomorrow, want to get at least a solid day of goldfishing in before the big show. thanks for the input
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears