My opinion is that Cage might be a little better. I like Relic better in general, but the decks Cage shuts off tend to be slightly faster than ours (Company, Dredge sometimes). Game 1 against LE should be fine, as you at least have the option to dump STE in the yard. Post-board, you won't get anything exciting unless you play Chalice.
Living End really is not that tough of match up, I am running a deck with splendid reclamations though so land kill effects aren't the worse. I mained living end for awhile and yes fulminator is and beast within are great at slowing down they really don't do a ton of work normally you have sakura tribe elder in the yard when they living end sort of nullifying their attempts at land destruction. Fulminator mage does nothing against basic lands which we play a ton ofso keep that in mind when fetching. Living ends best plan against us is to keep us off 7 lands and wait for a primetime to be played then violent outburst at end step with a big enough yard to swing for lethal that turn.
Hey guys check out the list at the top of page here. Felix Tse won the Toronto WMCQ with his titanshift list. His sideboard looks weird, but after also playing in the event, I believe he made pretty good meta calls with it.
Fog against aggro decks and Shatterstorm for a extra removal against Affinty but maybe I will remove it , thinking add Melira, Sylvok Outcast for Infect matchup
as bad as living end is with its land destruction, I feel that Abzan CC decks and combos are the worse match up. relic of progenitus isn't the best against them, where as Grafdigger's Cage is the better choice.
I played 58/60 same maindeck as you (ran a third explore and a baloth main over the 2 coursers you had), but the sideboard was where I saw some really interesting choices. My main questions were about your Witchbane Orbs and your Emrakul. How did the orbs perform? I assume they must have been pretty good vs. scapeshift mirrors, which there seemed to be a pretty decent number of. Is it also good against anything else like Burn, or is getting it out around turn 3-4 too late?
The Emrakul is pretty spicy, what matchups did you board it in generally? Do you think it was worth the slot?
I walked by the top tables a couple times while you were playing and saw a game you played against 2 blood moons, but you didn't seem to phased by it. With no enchantment removal in your list, were Blood Moons not something you expected to see? Or were you just confident in the beatdown plan vs those decks? Similarly did you run into leylines much, and how do you deal with those decks that play them?
Thanks for any insight on your deck you can give!
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Legacy : WUGBBant DeathbladeBGUW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
I played 58/60 same maindeck as you (ran a third explore and a baloth main over the 2 coursers you had), but the sideboard was where I saw some really interesting choices. My main questions were about your Witchbane Orbs and your Emrakul. How did the orbs perform? I assume they must have been pretty good vs. scapeshift mirrors, which there seemed to be a pretty decent number of. Is it also good against anything else like Burn, or is getting it out around turn 3-4 too late?
The Emrakul is pretty spicy, what matchups did you board it in generally? Do you think it was worth the slot?
I walked by the top tables a couple times while you were playing and saw a game you played against 2 blood moons, but you didn't seem to phased by it. With no enchantment removal in your list, were Blood Moons not something you expected to see? Or were you just confident in the beatdown plan vs those decks? Similarly did you run into leylines much, and how do you deal with those decks that play them?
Thanks for any insight on your deck you can give!
Firstly, thanks for the congratz!
The orbs were likely the best card i could find for the mirror, after trying out a bunch of different cards such as: acid-moss, reverberate, crumble, etc. The fact that it also has additional utility against burn is what sold me to it, as baloth is often not enough against skullcrack open mana. It is not an "end all be all" card in the mirror, but it does slows them down enough for you to execute your own plan. As to whether i will continue to ran them in the sb, that really depends on how the meta shifts moving forward. The orbs plan is a good option to have in our pocket.
My philosophy toward bloodmoon or leyline is that, playing single target enchantment removal is not a good idea. First, we need to draw one, and if they land multiple or has a counter for it, it doesn't really help. Sure, we could run back to nature , but it is so narrow that we cannot afford wasting sb slots in a wild open field like modern. We also don't have a lot of card draws, so finding that 1-2 copies could be challenging. Emrakul is just supplementing my beatdown plan against these cards, where i would usually sb out all my scapeshifts and summoning pact. As for alternate win con, I have tried, Emrakul, karn, Ugin, chandra, infernal titan, etc. They have all their pros and cons, and i just felt Emrakul has the most upside among them, with the matchups i am expecting the face that tournament.
I played 58/60 same maindeck as you (ran a third explore and a baloth main over the 2 coursers you had), but the sideboard was where I saw some really interesting choices. My main questions were about your Witchbane Orbs and your Emrakul. How did the orbs perform? I assume they must have been pretty good vs. scapeshift mirrors, which there seemed to be a pretty decent number of. Is it also good against anything else like Burn, or is getting it out around turn 3-4 too late?
The Emrakul is pretty spicy, what matchups did you board it in generally? Do you think it was worth the slot?
I walked by the top tables a couple times while you were playing and saw a game you played against 2 blood moons, but you didn't seem to phased by it. With no enchantment removal in your list, were Blood Moons not something you expected to see? Or were you just confident in the beatdown plan vs those decks? Similarly did you run into leylines much, and how do you deal with those decks that play them?
Thanks for any insight on your deck you can give!
Firstly, thanks for the congratz!
The orbs were likely the best card i could find for the mirror, after trying out a bunch of different cards such as: acid-moss, reverberate, crumble, etc. The fact that it also has additional utility against burn is what sold me to it, as baloth is often not enough against skullcrack open mana. It is not an "end all be all" card in the mirror, but it does slows them down enough for you to execute your own plan. As to whether i will continue to ran them in the sb, that really depends on how the meta shifts moving forward. The orbs plan is a good option to have in our pocket.
My philosophy toward bloodmoon or leyline is that, playing single target enchantment removal is not a good idea. First, we need to draw one, and if they land multiple or has a counter for it, it doesn't really help. Sure, we could run back to nature , but it is so narrow that we cannot afford wasting sb slots in a wild open field like modern. We also don't have a lot of card draws, so finding that 1-2 copies could be challenging. Emrakul is just supplementing my beatdown plan against these cards, where i would usually sb out all my scapeshifts and summoning pact. As for alternate win con, I have tried, Emrakul, karn, Ugin, chandra, infernal titan, etc. They have all their pros and cons, and i just felt Emrakul has the most upside among them, with the matchups i am expecting the face that tournament.
Hope this helps!
I play similar sideboard plan as you, but I splash white in the mainboard to support my sideboard choices. the same page we are on is I run leyline of sanctity and you run witchbane orb essentially the same card effect. we differ on the leyline aspect it would seem.
had you considered leyline of sanctity in that spot?
with or without white mana to support it.
Not able to cast leyline is a big deal, and splashing for white makes your mana worst, as cinder glade would enter play tap more often. It is potentially more painful as well with all the extra shocks, and playing a basic plains is just the most awkward draw.
Speaking about cinder glade, I am certain the mix should be 4 stomping + 2 glade. You will lose WAY more games due to not having an untap green turn 1/2 than potentially 2 extra life lost in the long run.
my2cents
Mods - not sure if there is still one in this thread, but in the premier at the front, my first deck list is missing 4 stomping ground (likely typo with 4 anger of the god instead)
That's something I wanted to ask but kept forgetting. Stomping Grounds seems a little better to ensure our early game than Glades. I'm gonna try a 3-3 split (only have 3 Stomping Grounds for now) but might go up to 4-2 in the next weeks.
the difference is in the scapeshift, and how many you run.
both decks build lethal valakut, through the breach into primeval titan will try and be a lethal combo. 6 damage off titan and what ever valakut they can amass.
some breach versions run scapeshift, but never a full set like titan shift does.
lastly titanshift runs kahlni heart expedition which can fetch lethal amount of mountains. Breach deck doesn't do that.
which you could look at it this way,
Breach combo is titan + breach (sometimes breach and emrakul)
titanshift combo is titan + expedition or we get to 7 lands and scapeshift
The two decks are very similar, the main difference is speed and consistency. Breach versions are typically faster, because Breach + Titan or Breach + Emrakul pretty much always wins on the spot and can be cast starting from T3 (with SfT + 2 Mana Ramp Spell). However, playing cards like Through the Breach and Emrakul, you lose consistency as those cards are awful topdecks late game and don't really do anything without another piece in your hand.
On the flip side, TitanShift is a bit slower because it can't put together a Scapeshift kill by at the earliest Turn 4, and typically casting Prime Time doesn't win that turn, it just gives you a huge advantage and sets up a kill for the following turn. However, because the entire deck is either Lands (which in the late game are wincons through natural Valakut triggers), Ramp spells (which are basically lands) and Wincons (Prime Time or Scapeshift), you have that improved consistency.
Chalice on 0 does stop Living End, but those decks typically play Beast Within and Ingot Chewer to deal with hateful artifacts like that, so I wouldn't assume that it would completely lock them out.
My opinion is that Cage might be a little better. I like Relic better in general, but the decks Cage shuts off tend to be slightly faster than ours (Company, Dredge sometimes). Game 1 against LE should be fine, as you at least have the option to dump STE in the yard. Post-board, you won't get anything exciting unless you play Chalice.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
I haven't seen it posted anywhere yet.
When I find, I'll post it here. =]
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
http://manadeprived.com/world-magic-cup-qualifier
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
Fog against aggro decks and Shatterstorm for a extra removal against Affinty but maybe I will remove it , thinking add Melira, Sylvok Outcast for Infect matchup
Suggestions are welcome
other good thing about cage is it basically stops other fringe combo decks as well, through the breach, footsteps of the goryo, unburial rites and so on. Living end is just the exceptions......
Congrats on your finish!
I played 58/60 same maindeck as you (ran a third explore and a baloth main over the 2 coursers you had), but the sideboard was where I saw some really interesting choices. My main questions were about your Witchbane Orbs and your Emrakul. How did the orbs perform? I assume they must have been pretty good vs. scapeshift mirrors, which there seemed to be a pretty decent number of. Is it also good against anything else like Burn, or is getting it out around turn 3-4 too late?
The Emrakul is pretty spicy, what matchups did you board it in generally? Do you think it was worth the slot?
I walked by the top tables a couple times while you were playing and saw a game you played against 2 blood moons, but you didn't seem to phased by it. With no enchantment removal in your list, were Blood Moons not something you expected to see? Or were you just confident in the beatdown plan vs those decks? Similarly did you run into leylines much, and how do you deal with those decks that play them?
Thanks for any insight on your deck you can give!
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
Firstly, thanks for the congratz!
The orbs were likely the best card i could find for the mirror, after trying out a bunch of different cards such as: acid-moss, reverberate, crumble, etc. The fact that it also has additional utility against burn is what sold me to it, as baloth is often not enough against skullcrack open mana. It is not an "end all be all" card in the mirror, but it does slows them down enough for you to execute your own plan. As to whether i will continue to ran them in the sb, that really depends on how the meta shifts moving forward. The orbs plan is a good option to have in our pocket.
My philosophy toward bloodmoon or leyline is that, playing single target enchantment removal is not a good idea. First, we need to draw one, and if they land multiple or has a counter for it, it doesn't really help. Sure, we could run back to nature , but it is so narrow that we cannot afford wasting sb slots in a wild open field like modern. We also don't have a lot of card draws, so finding that 1-2 copies could be challenging. Emrakul is just supplementing my beatdown plan against these cards, where i would usually sb out all my scapeshifts and summoning pact. As for alternate win con, I have tried, Emrakul, karn, Ugin, chandra, infernal titan, etc. They have all their pros and cons, and i just felt Emrakul has the most upside among them, with the matchups i am expecting the face that tournament.
Hope this helps!
I play similar sideboard plan as you, but I splash white in the mainboard to support my sideboard choices. the same page we are on is I run leyline of sanctity and you run witchbane orb essentially the same card effect. we differ on the leyline aspect it would seem.
had you considered leyline of sanctity in that spot?
with or without white mana to support it.
Speaking about cinder glade, I am certain the mix should be 4 stomping + 2 glade. You will lose WAY more games due to not having an untap green turn 1/2 than potentially 2 extra life lost in the long run.
my2cents
Mods - not sure if there is still one in this thread, but in the premier at the front, my first deck list is missing 4 stomping ground (likely typo with 4 anger of the god instead)
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
both decks build lethal valakut, through the breach into primeval titan will try and be a lethal combo. 6 damage off titan and what ever valakut they can amass.
some breach versions run scapeshift, but never a full set like titan shift does.
lastly titanshift runs kahlni heart expedition which can fetch lethal amount of mountains. Breach deck doesn't do that.
which you could look at it this way,
Breach combo is titan + breach (sometimes breach and emrakul)
titanshift combo is titan + expedition or we get to 7 lands and scapeshift
also titanshift is cooler than Breach,
On the flip side, TitanShift is a bit slower because it can't put together a Scapeshift kill by at the earliest Turn 4, and typically casting Prime Time doesn't win that turn, it just gives you a huge advantage and sets up a kill for the following turn. However, because the entire deck is either Lands (which in the late game are wincons through natural Valakut triggers), Ramp spells (which are basically lands) and Wincons (Prime Time or Scapeshift), you have that improved consistency.
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
7 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Primeval Titan
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Explore
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Scapeshift
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Sudden Shock
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature's Claim
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Interesting , he drop Khalni Heart Expedition for Courser of Kruphix and one more fetch.
Now how this change affects the gameplay overall?