Well this is the deck that has gotten me into modern. Just wondering, why no love for Gifts Ungiven as a 2-3 of? Yes the mana is kinda high, but I've had some good experiences with it.
Unless you're playing against a control deck with no clock (in my maindeck burn build, Vendilion Clique is not a clock, it's a dead team of faeries that bottomed my Past in Flames), the deck shouldn't go to Turn 5 or later. Thus, Gifts Ungiven is too expensive.
Well, basically killing me faster Besides having a fast clock they can even counter a ritual with Bant Charm, dropping you a turn behind (or more). Post sideboard it's even worst, 4-5 counters can come in, plus extra copies of Gaddock Teeg.
I mean, sometimes I win, I'm just not happy about a 50% chance on the first game and even worst in the second and third.
I think you're waiting too long to go off, if that's the case. I consistently combo out before counter-cat gets a chance to do anything pre-sb. Even if it's got bant charm in hand, leaving mana up just to slow you down a turn isn't a huge problem. Especially if you've dropped a pyromancer ascension.
There's no need to wait to sculpt a hand with this deck - you are basically just trying to get either an active ascension, or a seething song and past in flames. You dig like crazy to get those, and then just try to go off right away, because even if you fizzle, you are well-stocked for the next try.
Even against a zoo build I've got with 12 one-drops, my clock is faster.
Since I can't find a control build that beats Zoo a reasonable amount of time, I think I'll have to wait for better minds to settle on one before I start testing. In the meantime, I'm going to see how the deck works against Next Level Blue versions with Spell Pierce and Mindbreak Trap.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I know that combating graveyard-hate was back on the first page, but it's a big thing to overcome, so I was thinking...
What about Trickbind? Or if splashing green was at all possible, Krosan Grip is better...
What do you guys think about sideboarding 2 or 3 lavaball trap against zoo decks? (or any deck running creatures and fetch lands..)
This is the list I've been running, but I could probably be convinced to try squeezing pyromancer ascension into the deck.
Try it instead of the Kelpies - it is far more devastating, and can even help you go off without a PiF.
I've been toying with a slower version of the deck that does more to set up and delay the opponent - basically a deck that just fights to build a graveyard and/or activate an ascension, trying to survive long enough to do so.
It isn't perfect yet - I'm only about 50/50 against counter-cat in the first game so far, but the games are all close or blowouts in my favor, so I think there's promise here. I may need to swap the thoughtseize to the board for fighting mindbreak trap, and I think at least 1 more PiF is a good idea. The snapcasters are so-so in here. The idea was to use them to delay and reuse the 1-cc spells, but it might be better to just have lightning bolts.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
After a bit of testing, I've come to the conclusion that Serum Visions is terrible. Like flat out miserable. The fact that you don't get to see the next card you get before drawing it really hurts. Many times you don't even get to draw the cards you scryed, because the game is already over. Sleight of Hand is fine (though nowhere near ponder or preordain) because it lets you choose which card you get. We don't really need draw power, as we are able to utilize our graveyards as a second hand. What we need is dig power. To that end, I've opted to switch the serum visions for peer through depths. The extra mana it costs kills me far less than the serum visions does just drawing a land.
Im still on the fence about purchasing Past in Flames, because on its own the card is insanely powerful. If wizards ever wants to unban ponder, preordain, or rite of flame, there is no way they can keep past in flames legal. Maybe I'm wrong about this, though?
River Kelpie is much less good than pyromancer ascension and gitaxian probe is an auto-include IMO.
Burning vengeance is hilarious, it's crazy when it works, but if you're at the point where you're playing spells in your graveyard, you should be winning anyways.. It might be a sideboard card as an alternative win condition against stuff like extirpate.
I'm currently working on deck that uses gifts ungiven to find past in flames, grapeshot, manamorphose, and one toolbox card. It's actually a draw go deck that casts gifts and wins, but if you want to go all out combo, gifts is still amazing.
And a big question you should all ask yourself is trickbind or squelch. Do you want the early game cantrip, or do you want the assurance split second offers. There both good cards, but you should really stick with one or the other. I personally prefer squelch for it's use on a fetch lands, and split second hasn't mattered much.
One last thing. Remand is the best combo piece in the deck. Early on you counter and dig, and then you give them flashback, counter your grapeshot twice, draw two cards, and cast the lethal grapeshot. Remand is a four of without argument.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
As far as investing in Past in Flames go, I ended up pulling 3 in booster packs so they kind of found me. I bought two others for $15 so I'm up to 5. I think once it releases on MTGO and people start using it competatively in tournaments the price will go up to $15 a piece minimum. I think in a couple months, it's quite possible that it will be banned, which is a major bummer because I really think it will end up being as fair as splintertwin and zoo once the metagame adjusts to how awesome it is. I guess we'll see how hellbent wizards is on neutering every deck besides zoo and artifacts.
Now I haven't played a TON with the deck, but it's not bad from what I've seen. The first one is lackluster, but it does help stack your next draw. I think of it as a delayed preordain. I also find chaining a serum visions into Sleight of Hand is pretty nice, giving you an idea of your options for SoH. It's worse if you're digging for a card you want right now, but if you're just trying to set yourself up for next turn or the turn after, I think it's fine. It's no preordain or Ponder, but I think I'd rather Serum Visions turn 1 than Sleight of Hand, and help me set up my next draw better
I just find that most of the time I'm digging, I need the card right now, which serum visions doesn't help with. Maybe we have different play styles, though.
Serum Visions is the better turn 1 play, because it sees more cards - Sleight of Hand is better when you are trying to go off but need just a little oomph to get there. Peer Through Depths is amazing, even if a little more expensive (when you don't have a desperate ritual handy).
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I've been play testing a less good version of this deck on MTGO (no Past in Flames yet) and I find myself completely stumped when my opponent sideboards in leyline of the void or leyline of sactity or tormod's crypt or [relic of progenitus[/c]. So I've been playing with my mana base and have come up with a funky sideboard card...
I'm not 100% as to whether or not I am going to keep running 20 lands in the deck, I might go to 18 or 19. But here's what I'm thinking:
I don't think adding another colour is a good move. Wipe Away and/or Echoing Truth are fine sideboard cards for this situation. You don't need to kill it, just get rid of the card for one turn to combo off, so bouncing it to their hand is a fine plan
best 1 turn digger gotta be index, maybe can work a bit better since what u really need is dig for the combo cards tho. and what a about noxious revival Phyrexian mana is a way to go to build a bigger storm effect.
Edit- my current version. i think one of the problems about this deck is the mana to cast things from graveyard so i decide to play more free spells using the phyrexian mana mechanic a 0 sorcery for a free cast from graveyard.
Pentad Prism has helped me get faster. I replaced a couple M10 rituals and haven't looked back.
I have also built a side board that lets me go to a Swath or Goblin Swarm deck.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
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I think you're waiting too long to go off, if that's the case. I consistently combo out before counter-cat gets a chance to do anything pre-sb. Even if it's got bant charm in hand, leaving mana up just to slow you down a turn isn't a huge problem. Especially if you've dropped a pyromancer ascension.
There's no need to wait to sculpt a hand with this deck - you are basically just trying to get either an active ascension, or a seething song and past in flames. You dig like crazy to get those, and then just try to go off right away, because even if you fizzle, you are well-stocked for the next try.
Even against a zoo build I've got with 12 one-drops, my clock is faster.
Since I can't find a control build that beats Zoo a reasonable amount of time, I think I'll have to wait for better minds to settle on one before I start testing. In the meantime, I'm going to see how the deck works against Next Level Blue versions with Spell Pierce and Mindbreak Trap.
People's Front of 422
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
What about Trickbind? Or if splashing green was at all possible, Krosan Grip is better...
What do you guys think about sideboarding 2 or 3 lavaball trap against zoo decks? (or any deck running creatures and fetch lands..)
This is the list I've been running, but I could probably be convinced to try squeezing pyromancer ascension into the deck.
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Past in Flames
4 Grapeshot
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Serum Visions
3 Think Twice
3 River Kelpie
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
5 Mountain
5 Island
I've been toying with a slower version of the deck that does more to set up and delay the opponent - basically a deck that just fights to build a graveyard and/or activate an ascension, trying to survive long enough to do so.
It isn't perfect yet - I'm only about 50/50 against counter-cat in the first game so far, but the games are all close or blowouts in my favor, so I think there's promise here. I may need to swap the thoughtseize to the board for fighting mindbreak trap, and I think at least 1 more PiF is a good idea. The snapcasters are so-so in here. The idea was to use them to delay and reuse the 1-cc spells, but it might be better to just have lightning bolts.
4 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantments (4)
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Instants (18)
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet
2 Repeal
Sorceries (19)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Grapeshot
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Shivan Reef
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Pyretic Ritual
2 Past in Flames
1 Repeal
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Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Im still on the fence about purchasing Past in Flames, because on its own the card is insanely powerful. If wizards ever wants to unban ponder, preordain, or rite of flame, there is no way they can keep past in flames legal. Maybe I'm wrong about this, though?
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
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I love sideboarding wipe away. It is insane with Pyromancer active... You can bounce lands too!
Burning vengeance is hilarious, it's crazy when it works, but if you're at the point where you're playing spells in your graveyard, you should be winning anyways.. It might be a sideboard card as an alternative win condition against stuff like extirpate.
And a big question you should all ask yourself is trickbind or squelch. Do you want the early game cantrip, or do you want the assurance split second offers. There both good cards, but you should really stick with one or the other. I personally prefer squelch for it's use on a fetch lands, and split second hasn't mattered much.
One last thing. Remand is the best combo piece in the deck. Early on you counter and dig, and then you give them flashback, counter your grapeshot twice, draw two cards, and cast the lethal grapeshot. Remand is a four of without argument.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Now I haven't played a TON with the deck, but it's not bad from what I've seen. The first one is lackluster, but it does help stack your next draw. I think of it as a delayed preordain. I also find chaining a serum visions into Sleight of Hand is pretty nice, giving you an idea of your options for SoH. It's worse if you're digging for a card you want right now, but if you're just trying to set yourself up for next turn or the turn after, I think it's fine. It's no preordain or Ponder, but I think I'd rather Serum Visions turn 1 than Sleight of Hand, and help me set up my next draw better
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
People's Front of 422
I'm not 100% as to whether or not I am going to keep running 20 lands in the deck, I might go to 18 or 19. But here's what I'm thinking:
4 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest
4 steam vents
1 stomping ground
1 breeding pool
3 island
3 mountain
And then I sideboard 4 naturalize and 1 or 2 nature's claim.
It's not the sort of thing I thought would be necessary, but I'm running into a lot of igraveyard hate online. Anyone else feel like trying this out?
The other alternative is running into the roil or wipe away if you want to keep it two colours.. It's just not as much as a solution IMO.
Edit- my current version. i think one of the problems about this deck is the mana to cast things from graveyard so i decide to play more free spells using the phyrexian mana mechanic a 0 sorcery for a free cast from graveyard.
well this is my version. i like noxious revival to return another noxious revival, and again and again for a bigger storm. :P.
Casual - Aura Nightmare WU
Modern - Acid Prison GW
I have also built a side board that lets me go to a Swath or Goblin Swarm deck.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77