I would avoid running either Leyline of the Void or Leyline of Sanctity in the mainboard. Why? Because I never want them unless I'm willing to mulligan for them (which would be against Storm, Eggs, Burn, Scapeshift, Reanimator and Dredgevine depending on which Leyline you run). In the mainboard, Faerie Macabre and Jund Charm are more reliable than Leyline of the Void because you don't have to mulligan for them to pull their weight (plus Faerie ruins Affinity's day). Leylines are strictly sideboard cards, but I strongly recommend having 4 of one leyline in the sideboard because they make some of our worst match-ups playable.
I've only been able to test against a few friends decks - Merfolk, Goblins, Martyr and Burn. Nothing too spectacular. I can say that Burn and Goblins were rough if I did not hit a 3rd land drop on turn 3. There's a GPT on Saturday, but I don't feel comfortable not having tested against any top tier decks.
I have been messing around with the deck a lot though - can't really decide if I want to MB 3 or 2 Faerie Macabre or if I want to MB 2 or 3 or 0 Avalanche Riders
2 questions for y'all:
Anyone actually running Kitchen Finks over Brindle Boar?
Anyone adding blue-making lands to hard cast Architects of Thought? I am currently not running this card at all, but was wondering.
Brindle Boar is generally preferred to Kitchen Finks because it gives a greater net lifegain with Living End. Both are viable. Architects of Will is not used because it is too vulnerable and the value of it's library-manipulation is questionable. If anyone runs it, they probably wouldn't splash for it because it's not a great asset to us.
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Blue
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
I would avoid running either Leyline of the Void or Leyline of Sanctity in the mainboard. Why? Because I never want them unless I'm willing to mulligan for them (which would be against Storm, Eggs, Burn, Scapeshift, Reanimator and Dredgevine depending on which Leyline you run). In the mainboard, Faerie Macabre and Jund Charm are more reliable than Leyline of the Void because you don't have to mulligan for them to pull their weight (plus Faerie ruins Affinity's day). Leylines are strictly sideboard cards, but I strongly recommend having 4 of one leyline in the sideboard because they make some of our worst match-ups playable.
Brindle Boar is generally preferred to Kitchen Finks because it gives a greater net lifegain with Living End. Both are viable.
Architects of Will is not used because it is too vulnerable and the value of it's library-manipulation is questionable. If anyone runs it, they probably wouldn't splash for it because it's not a great asset to us.
Oh lordy lord, I'd never even consider a Leyline in the main. Recently I feel as though Sanctity might be the Leyline of choice because storm is a rooooyal pain in my ass. It's annoying how helpless I feel against it so often.
I've never actually heard testimony of someone who has played Finks, but just from a theoretical standpoint he does seem the weaker choice, especially if you consider Path to Exile's negative impact on the lifegain.
I see people running Architects on occasion, but I've never seen someone go as far as to splash blue for hardcasting it. Pale Recluse being so much its superior can warrant a splash.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
I would avoid running either Leyline of the Void or Leyline of Sanctity in the mainboard. Why? Because I never want them unless I'm willing to mulligan for them (which would be against Storm, Eggs, Burn, Scapeshift, Reanimator and Dredgevine depending on which Leyline you run). In the mainboard, Faerie Macabre and Jund Charm are more reliable than Leyline of the Void because you don't have to mulligan for them to pull their weight (plus Faerie ruins Affinity's day). Leylines are strictly sideboard cards, but I strongly recommend having 4 of one leyline in the sideboard because they make some of our worst match-ups playable.
Brindle Boar is generally preferred to Kitchen Finks because it gives a greater net lifegain with Living End. Both are viable. Architects of Will is not used because it is too vulnerable and the value of it's library-manipulation is questionable. If anyone runs it, they probably wouldn't splash for it because it's not a great asset to us.
Definitely. Haven't tried running Finks, just seeing if anyone else was having any success with them. I really like Brindle Boar as the art makes me laugh and as you mentioned, the net life gain is great. I've seen a lot of lists with Architects, but I'm not into them myself.
So the PTQ is tomorrow (saturday). As more and more people get together to playtest Modern, what decks do I see often popping up?
Burn.
Tron.
Storm.
I'm not even joking.
I'm going to scout out more, and partcipate in a Modern FNM later tonight. Hopefully that will give me more information on other players I haven't faced or seen yet.
But I'm just like... really? All 3 of our worst match-ups?
There was a person or two talking about sleeving Infect as well.
I have Soul Sisters completely built as a back-up deck, but I've put a lot of time, testing, and TLC into Living End so I'm hoping for the best.
On one positive note, I have been able to grind through a couple of UW Resto matches without Ricochet Trap. Feels good!
It sounds like you need a little Leyline of Sanctity in your life. Neither deck can handle it in game 2 unless they have the foresight to expect it, so you can basically mull to it I would expect; burn can't do anything about it even in game 3. Do many storm decks pack bounce in their sideboard, even? I guess they could switch to the Empty the Warrens plan? That's even easier to handle, though.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
It sounds like you need a little Leyline of Sanctity in your life. Neither deck can handle it in game 2 unless they have the foresight to expect it, so you can basically mull to it I would expect; burn can't do anything about it even in game 3. Do many storm decks pack bounce in their sideboard, even? I guess they could switch to the Empty the Warrens plan? That's even easier to handle, though.
Tron's a different story, of course...
Our deck has the added bonus of being able to spring Leyline of Sanctity on a combo deck in game 2 without them expecting it. I mean, really. Who would expect a sideboard card with WW in its cost to show up in a (predominantly) Jund-colored deck?
Tron just ruins our day regardless. Pile in as many LD spells as you can and cross your fingers. =/
I didn't read the Whoooooooole post but didn't see the answer for this in what I've read... did anybody tested against control scapeshift? Their counterspells are annoying and they eventually combo... are the fulminator mage enough? Any advice for nooob like me
I didn't read the Whoooooooole post but didn't see the answer for this in what I've read... did anybody tested against control scapeshift? Their counterspells are annoying and they eventually combo... are the fulminator mage enough? Any advice for nooob like me
Bring in 4 Leyline of Sanctity out of the side, mulligan aggressively to land one turn 1. Remember to pack *some* white mana in case you need to hardcast Leylines, but you always want to mulligan for one 1st turn against Scapeshift (and Eggs and Burn and Storm). Ricochet Trap could help as well, but we are surprisingly counter-resilient; just get 1 Violent Outburst and 1 other cascade in hand and hope they don't have 2 counters.
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You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
I didn't read the Whoooooooole post but didn't see the answer for this in what I've read... did anybody tested against control scapeshift? Their counterspells are annoying and they eventually combo... are the fulminator mage enough? Any advice for nooob like me
Basically what you said. The LD doesnt usually hinder them enough since they fetch a tonne, and we struggle to resolve living end against their remands. Its not as bad as RG tron but its not our best matchup either; I think they basically have to stumble for it to work in our favour. This is a match where gnaw to the bone might actually serve a purpose, since gaining 16 life along the way can actually frustrate them a good deal.
I didn't read the Whoooooooole post but didn't see the answer for this in what I've read... did anybody tested against control scapeshift? Their counterspells are annoying and they eventually combo... are the fulminator mage enough? Any advice for nooob like me
I'd like to believe that the Scapeshift matchup is pretty safe, but I know the RUG lists are full of tricks like Remand and Izzet Charm, which can really give us fits. I've only tested a couple games, and my losses all came from not being able to force an End through. A single Brindle Boar will at least tack on another land to their Scapeshift combo (which they usually set at six or seven lands), but beyond that the lifegain is pretty irrelevant.
If you have them in your sideboard, bring in Avalanche Riders and/or Slaughter Games. Ricochet Trap is a good one as well, for protection. They don't put much (if any) pressure on us with creatures, so this ends up playing like your typical control deck in that sense.
More discussion on Scapeshift is available on the posts immediately preceding the one I've quoted.
Both Burn players ended in the top 8, so I got 10th out of 28 players.
Scouted the room before the tournament. I noticed a lot of the really good players in the city were still testing decks with a few proxies in the back, and generally going around still trying to assemble their decks the night before the PTQ. There were still a lot of legit players in the room with real decks, but it was definitely a pool of different things... Burn, Tron, Jund, Storm, Hate-bears/Junk, Elves, Splinter-Twin, UW Resto, Affinity, Boros, and so much more. Besides burn (3 players), I don't think there were any deck that had more than one player representing it.
Jund Charm is insane in the maindeck. Without it, I think I would of lost to Affinity. We're usually favored in the Affinity match-up, but his hands were too much. I had to rely heavily on Jund Charm, Beast Within, and those instant Violent Outburst's.
The PTQ is today. I'm going to bed in a few minutes. But I just need to clear our thoughts first.
The UW Resto match-up is usually 50:50 I say. It's never a blow-out, and typically end somehow 1-2 or 2-1 for you. We can grind through these games, but do I take that risk? Do I devout my 2 Ricochet Trap's to a 2 life-gain spot (Brindle Boar or Gnaw to the Bone - let's not debate which one is better right now. At this point I'll take either, although I don't think straight Burn decks have a lot of Grave hate so I'm bias towards Gnaw right now)
I love this deck, but I'm definitely going to need some luck later.
Both Burn players ended in the top 8, so I got 10th out of 28 players.
Scouted the room before the tournament. I noticed a lot of the really good players in the city were still testing decks with a few proxies in the back, and generally going around still trying to assemble their decks the night before the PTQ. There were still a lot of legit players in the room with real decks, but it was definitely a pool of different things... Burn, Tron, Jund, Storm, Hate-bears/Junk, Elves, Splinter-Twin, UW Resto, Affinity, Boros, and so much more. Besides burn (3 players), I don't think there were any deck that had more than one player representing it.
Jund Charm is insane in the maindeck. Without it, I think I would of lost to Affinity. We're usually favored in the Affinity match-up, but his hands were too much. I had to rely heavily on Jund Charm, Beast Within, and those instant Violent Outburst's.
The PTQ is today. I'm going to bed in a few minutes. But I just need to clear our thoughts first.
The UW Resto match-up is usually 50:50 I say. It's never a blow-out, and typically end somehow 1-2 or 2-1 for you. We can grind through these games, but do I take that risk? Do I devout my 2 Ricochet Trap's to a 2 life-gain spot (Brindle Boar or Gnaw to the Bone - let's not debate which one is better right now. At this point I'll take either, although I don't think straight Burn decks have a lot of Grave hate so I'm bias towards Gnaw right now)
I love this deck, but I'm definitely going to need some luck later.
@IxidorVersionTwo: Why did you lose against the Burn decks? Could they fight through Leyline of Sancitity? Did they have answers for it or did they aggro your face off?
EDIT:
I just went on the Faerie thread and found the list that beat us at the PTQ in Granada. You can find the list on Page 40 of the thread. It's different from other Faerie lists in that it splashes Red for Lightning Bolt and Izzet Charm in the mainboard, plus Ancient Grudge, Blood Moon, Forked Bolt and Izzet Staticaster in the sideboard. My largest concern, however, is that it has 3 Relic of Progenitus mainboard, making a really bad match-up nearly impossible to win.
So, is mainboard Relic common in Tempo decks or is this just a rogue player? If more decks start using Relic in the mainboard than our viability drops by a lot.
Blue
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
Round 1 - 1-2 vs 5-color-lotus-cobra?
Game 1 I cycle a weaver and a minotaur then outburst killing his cobra and geist of saint traft. He shocked himself to 16 so I won in 2 swings using jund charm to clear the way for the second hit.
Game 2 he gets thalia out t2 but I have jund charm. I take some cobra/thalia damage before t4 where I pass the turn planning on sweeping... then he gets to 6 mana using cobra and casts through the breach putting emrakul into play...
Game 3 he gets relic of progenitus out early and I play horribly against it. I cascade at stupid times etc - he ends up winning beating down with cobra and geist.
Round 2 - 2-0 vs Affinity
He really didnt know how to play against my deck and both games involved an early living end completely wiping his board including a glimmervoid, followed by fulminators on his nexus.
Round 3 - 0-2 vs RG tron
I was depressed as soon as he played t1 urzas mine - chromatic star. To my surprise he actually didn't have relic maindeck. I cycled like 5 guys into the yard in the first 3 turns and never drew a cascade or LD spell. He gets tron active and plays emrakul - I survive the first swing saccing all my guys and then outburst - but he casts 2 wurmcoils post combat and re-tutors the emrakul. G2 was t3 karn gg.
Round 4 - 2-1 vs Jund w blue
Blue for snapcaster and phantasmal image; the first game went long due to bad play by me. I had him at 2 life fairly early but then he cast a finks and copied it with phantasmal climbing back into the game. We figure between that and deathrites he gained 20 life during the game - I never took one point of dmg. G2 was long and I basically lost to rakdos charm in response to living end. G3 we had 5 minutes to play and I finally had the good hand with street wraiths, 1 mana cyclers, fulminator and then living end. Would have won by t5 he scooped after the end tho.
Let me first say this: when I do too good at Magic, I punt. I choke. I'm bad at fair Magic, where you have to trade with creatures and play spells that interact. If I could play decks that simply played Solitaire or chained through their whole deck playing every spell in every format, I would.
With that said, I'll say these two things: 1) I will forever love Living End, and 2) I went into this event with one of the most focused mindsets I have ever done for a big tournament (PTQ, Regionals, Grand Prix, etc.)
I know, I know. Not the exact results you want to see, but just hear me out.
I was playing some of the most intensive, uphill games of Magic in my entire life. The tournament ended 14 hours ago for me, and I'm still quite shaken up at how insane they were. For one of the few times in my life, I had just the most insane games I could play. Between having great hands all day until the last round (I rarely mulliganed, and when I did I usually kept a great 6). So many stacks of Magic happening with the mainboard Faerie Macabre and Jund Charm... BTW, Jund Charm in the main completely next levels this deck. Without it, I probably would of ended up 1-6 or 0-7. It's relevant in almost every single match, I am not exaggerating. I can't believe I played the deck without it, now I always will.
I wrote this in a rush so excuse my mistakes and maybe a lack of detail on certain parts. Some of the games got insane and it would drive me insane if I had to write down all those details right now.
Eggs
I honestly didn't know what to do Game 1. I figured it's an auto-win for them but I tried to pay close attention to how the deck worked and find holes where I could suddenly disrupt him. I eventually scooped after 30 minutes when we established he couldn't fizzle.
Game 2 I tried reaching deep for the Leyline of Sanctity. Took a few mulls, and didn't hit it, but I kept a pretty safe hand with a Faerie and a Charm. I figured if I timed it right I could try to disrupt him if I wasn't winning yet. He started off extremely slow. I played defense, always keeping 3 mana open for a Charm or Beast Within, while keeping 1 mana open usually to toss dudes in the graveyard, like Ingot Chewer. I was able to Violent Outburst and have enough power on board, but once the combo started to happen and I tried to disrupt him, he actually managed to play around it. Even I had mulled to the Leyline, he had a single Laboratory Maniac as backup.
Affinity
Even though this match is favored towards us, it can be shaky because of how fast they go, how big Cranial Plating can be, oh and a little card called Arcbound Ravager. It was the typical smash fest though. He bashes me quick until I Jund Charm his board away, and then when I Violent Outburst I use the Faerie to remove his two big threats so his Ornithopter and Signal Pest are staring down a ton of my dudes. Affinity matches always put me on edge, but they're usually fun and you just gotta save those Ingot Chewers and Beast Within's.
Splinter Twin
Game one he just combos outta nowhere, I wasn't expecting it because he was playing some RUG version. He laid down BoP, alrighty... I'm still establishing myself and a combo happens outta nowhere. Whatever.
Game two he's digging deep, using a Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand. I play it conservatively so once I establish 3 mana I always keep 3 mana open for my Beast Within. I deny his red sources for a while with 2 Fullminator Mages. He tries to go for it but I deny it. After some back and forths, my bin is full of power over 24. I cascade in which he casts Counterflux. I use my sided Ricochet Trap so it targets my Demonic Dread. He proceeds to look pissed and scoops.
Game 3 was too intense. He tries to combo off, and I deny it with a Beast Within. He tries it again and I'm still sitting on my other Beast Within. He plays another Pestermite, in which I Violent Outburst to clear the board and put a little pressure with 2 beaters. Let me remind you he hasn't played any draw spells since game 1, and yet for a 3rd turn in a row he goes for it. Nice stacking? Geesh!
The land destruction was relevant but I figured since he is playing BoP and Deathrite Shaman (i.e. going for a turn 3 win instead of 4), his version is too fast for me to board in my Avalanche Riders. Maybe that was a mistake, because the Mages definitely helped.
Burn
He starts off with a mountain and Goblin Guide and I proceed to sink into my chair. I have no good sideboard cards against Burn, and I've never beat it with this deck. Here goes nothing...
I pretty much try to race him out and start cycling a lot of dudes. He surprisingly puts a decent amount of creatures on board, but still has a Lightning Bolt and Rift Bolt up his sleeve. I figured at this point I'm "all-in" on this match up and just start taking damage from my shock-lands because I figured the speed is worth it. If I slow myself down a turn and not play spells, he's going to make up for that 2 damage I saved myself. I eventually cascade into Living End, and go all out on those Mages (sac'd it before the End and after). That leaves him at 1 land (a mountain, because he had double Blood Crypt), and me at one life. I pretty much can't watch him draw his next card. He looks at his only 2 cards in his hand... Keldon Marauders, and it's game two. HOLY CRAP I GOT ONE IN.
Game two I bring in my 3rd Jund Charm and my 3 Leyline. First hand I just tossed back because it was crap no matter what I was playing against. My 6-cards were pretty good, and I started with a Leyline. That was backbreaking to him, but he still plays a few dudes here and there like Keldon Marauders (even though it pings him instead). Eventually I cascade Living End into a Pale Recluse, Monostrous Carabid, and Fullminator Mage. I swing once. He's at 5 life, and plays Ensnaring Bridge with 3 cards in hand. SICK. I swing for 3 with my Mage and Dryad Arbor, and proceed to Jund Charm my Arbor.
Did I seriously just win against Burn?
Pod
Game one was a Smash Fest on my part. He plays Deathrite's and dudes, and runs into 2 Kitchen Finks. I try to stall him out a bit with a Jund Charm, to which I Faerie Macabre his double Finks. Feels good, mang. He has Pod and starts searching for his combo pieces, and tries going off. Sorry bro, did I mention I play 2 Faerie Macabre in the main? His combo disintegrates, and I proceed to combo and smash face with a swampwalking Street Wraith that gets Wolf-Runned.
Game two was much more interesting in that I had to face backbreaking cards like Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist. I did start with a Leyline in play though, as I didn't want to die to the Murderous Redcap combo. I figured our deck is great against other decks that go on the ground and swing, so I forced him to do that. He applies a lot of pressure and swings with dudes but double Jund Charm is insane. I clear his board, and then remove his entire Graveyard so I can make sure the Living End is one-sided. I only have 3 dudes in play, two bigger ones and a Fullminator Mage. He pods a Finks into a Obstinate Baloth so he can block and pretty much negate the damage that does get through. He eventually Pod's into a Baneslayer Angel, which is a total difference-maker as it can kill my dudes WHILE gaining life. The thing is, that Demonic Dread that's been sitting in my hand for 3 turns is looking pretty good right now. I cast it and swing. He's not happy.
Affinity
Most Affinity match-ups are the same. They smash us game one until we can take out their 1 or 2 big threats, and then we Living End. Game 2 usually is a close game but damn thos Ravager tricks with Inkmoth Nexus. Game 3 is ours. This is how it always goes for me, how about you?
Burn
Oh, so we're doing this again? He starts with the infamous Mountain into Goblin Guide and I wonder if luck is on my side again. He proceeds to bash my face in but not without a fight. I took a hand with 2 Street Wraith's and am now regretting it (these are always the cards I automatically take out when we Side for game 2). I take a lot of damage, but I figure i toss the Wraith's so I can find an answer quick. My graveyard doesn't look too bad either. Between a Pale Recluse, Deadshot Minotaur, and 2 Street Wraith's that will be unblockable (thank you opposing Blood Crypt!), I feel safe to cast that Violent Outburst. I'm able to get him down under 5, but he just has too many burn spells that go over my head.
Game two I start with 7 that doesn't look too strong in a lot of match-ups. I go to 6, and I'm not seeing a Leyline or any other quick answers. Going to 5 provides me no lands or a Leyline. Let's see what 4 offers: Verdant Catacombs, Beast Within, Living End, Deadshot Minotaur. I don't like it but 3 could be worse at this point... it actually curves out pretty well as I draw into Copperline Gorge, another Beast Within if I need to stop combat-damage immediately, and a cycler here or there. The thing is, then I proceed to draw my 3rd Beast Within. Uh, sure. He's bashing and burning, but not at a rampant pace so I get some breathing room. Doesn't help when you draw your 4th Beast Within. I'm sitting on 4 lands but I'm not quite too sure if I want to start taking out my own lands so I can provide myself with a 3/3 or even two of them. This is probably where I finally punted the first time today and decide to just Beast Within his own dudes. It stops damage for a turn, and when he tries to swing with a token the next turn, I replace it with another. I figured I'm just Time Walking him until I can draw more answers, but my draws aren't going fast enough. He eventually can burn me down to 0. Oh well.
Final Thoughts
- Yes, I will continue to play this deck.
- Yes, I am still playing it at the next PTQ!
- 3 Shriekmaw was the only card I never sided in. It's a great card, but I had matches that never really called for it. The Ricochet Trap was nice in the one game but that was it. I would throw the Trap up on the chopping block so I could toss in some life-gain because I expect burn players in full force at my hometown's PTQ. However, a lot of the big name players and top players in this city will play blue. I'll decide over the next 4-5 weeks.
- Play this deck. Even though I ended on a mediocre 4-3 record, I can honestly say these were the funnest games I ever had in a single setting of a tournament. I wish I had gone over them in more detail, but that would require so much work and I am still mentally exhausted. I gave it my all, and I got what I deserved. I REALLY worked hard for my wins, and my losses came at my own fault (besides maybe 'Twin...) I chose not side any Lifegain, and I went into the tournament not knowing the Eggs match-up. There were surprisingly 6 Eggs players in a field of 115 people... It happens.
- Everyone you play this deck around will be amused. You somehow become the local legend of the day. I always hear people whisper excitedly "Oh my god he's playing that deck YES" and plenty of other comments that brightened my day.
I'm hoping you all have more success stories. Keep playing this deck!
I have been thinking about running 2/2 split of jund charm and faerie macabre in the main, I don't know about leyline still, I hate mulling to hit a single card, and if you don't hit it it's a near dead draw.
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Thanks for that report. I'm returning to magic after some time off and almost done putting a living end deck together. These matchup write ups are helpful.
I use my sided Ricochet Trap so it targets my Demonic Dread.
It may not matter in many cases, but from some reading I've been doing on the living end deck, I've seen it mentioned(on the first page primer here) that you can change the target when using ricochet trap to the trap itself so everything else still works.
I have been thinking about running 2/2 split of jund charm and faerie macabre in the main, I don't know about leyline still, I hate mulling to hit a single card, and if you don't hit it it's a near dead draw.
That's what I've done. I've also moved Leyline of the Void out entirely in favor of 3 Leyline of Sanctity and a fourth Faerie Macabre in the board. Haven't tested yet but I'm zeroing in on my list for next Friday.
Doing some testing against Infect today (only other Modern deck I own so I'll have a friend play it. Not sure if I'll see any but it's such a cheap deck to build it wouldn't surprise me if it makes a showing. May be discouraging...
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Brindle Boar is generally preferred to Kitchen Finks because it gives a greater net lifegain with Living End. Both are viable.
Architects of Will is not used because it is too vulnerable and the value of it's library-manipulation is questionable. If anyone runs it, they probably wouldn't splash for it because it's not a great asset to us.
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
Oh lordy lord, I'd never even consider a Leyline in the main. Recently I feel as though Sanctity might be the Leyline of choice because storm is a rooooyal pain in my ass. It's annoying how helpless I feel against it so often.
I've never actually heard testimony of someone who has played Finks, but just from a theoretical standpoint he does seem the weaker choice, especially if you consider Path to Exile's negative impact on the lifegain.
I see people running Architects on occasion, but I've never seen someone go as far as to splash blue for hardcasting it. Pale Recluse being so much its superior can warrant a splash.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
Definitely. Haven't tried running Finks, just seeing if anyone else was having any success with them. I really like Brindle Boar as the art makes me laugh and as you mentioned, the net life gain is great. I've seen a lot of lists with Architects, but I'm not into them myself.
Burn.
Tron.
Storm.
I'm not even joking.
I'm going to scout out more, and partcipate in a Modern FNM later tonight. Hopefully that will give me more information on other players I haven't faced or seen yet.
But I'm just like... really? All 3 of our worst match-ups?
There was a person or two talking about sleeving Infect as well.
I have Soul Sisters completely built as a back-up deck, but I've put a lot of time, testing, and TLC into Living End so I'm hoping for the best.
On one positive note, I have been able to grind through a couple of UW Resto matches without Ricochet Trap. Feels good!
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
It sounds like you need a little Leyline of Sanctity in your life. Neither deck can handle it in game 2 unless they have the foresight to expect it, so you can basically mull to it I would expect; burn can't do anything about it even in game 3. Do many storm decks pack bounce in their sideboard, even? I guess they could switch to the Empty the Warrens plan? That's even easier to handle, though.
Tron's a different story, of course...
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
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Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
Our deck has the added bonus of being able to spring Leyline of Sanctity on a combo deck in game 2 without them expecting it. I mean, really. Who would expect a sideboard card with WW in its cost to show up in a (predominantly) Jund-colored deck?
Tron just ruins our day regardless. Pile in as many LD spells as you can and cross your fingers. =/
EDIT: Good heavens, Leyline of Sanctity is a $10 card now?! FFFFFFFFFFFFF.
CF had it for 5.99 but it's out of stock, I'm sure the price will jump if they restock it. Boo...
Bring in 4 Leyline of Sanctity out of the side, mulligan aggressively to land one turn 1. Remember to pack *some* white mana in case you need to hardcast Leylines, but you always want to mulligan for one 1st turn against Scapeshift (and Eggs and Burn and Storm). Ricochet Trap could help as well, but we are surprisingly counter-resilient; just get 1 Violent Outburst and 1 other cascade in hand and hope they don't have 2 counters.
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
Basically what you said. The LD doesnt usually hinder them enough since they fetch a tonne, and we struggle to resolve living end against their remands. Its not as bad as RG tron but its not our best matchup either; I think they basically have to stumble for it to work in our favour. This is a match where gnaw to the bone might actually serve a purpose, since gaining 16 life along the way can actually frustrate them a good deal.
RTFT - Read the.... FRIENDLY thread.
More discussion on Scapeshift is available on the posts immediately preceding the one I've quoted.
5 rounds.
3-2
My two losses?
Burn.
Burn.
1-2 Burn
2-1 Affinity
0-2 Burn
2-0 Elves
2-1 Death Cloud/Rock
Both Burn players ended in the top 8, so I got 10th out of 28 players.
Scouted the room before the tournament. I noticed a lot of the really good players in the city were still testing decks with a few proxies in the back, and generally going around still trying to assemble their decks the night before the PTQ. There were still a lot of legit players in the room with real decks, but it was definitely a pool of different things... Burn, Tron, Jund, Storm, Hate-bears/Junk, Elves, Splinter-Twin, UW Resto, Affinity, Boros, and so much more. Besides burn (3 players), I don't think there were any deck that had more than one player representing it.
My list
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Wolf-Run Kessig
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Fullminator Mage
4 Pale Recluse
4 Street Wraith
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
4 Beast Within
3 Living End
2 Jund Charm
1 Jund Charm
3 Shriekmaw
3 Avalanche Riders
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Ricochet Trap
Jund Charm is insane in the maindeck. Without it, I think I would of lost to Affinity. We're usually favored in the Affinity match-up, but his hands were too much. I had to rely heavily on Jund Charm, Beast Within, and those instant Violent Outburst's.
The PTQ is today. I'm going to bed in a few minutes. But I just need to clear our thoughts first.
The UW Resto match-up is usually 50:50 I say. It's never a blow-out, and typically end somehow 1-2 or 2-1 for you. We can grind through these games, but do I take that risk? Do I devout my 2 Ricochet Trap's to a 2 life-gain spot (Brindle Boar or Gnaw to the Bone - let's not debate which one is better right now. At this point I'll take either, although I don't think straight Burn decks have a lot of Grave hate so I'm bias towards Gnaw right now)
I love this deck, but I'm definitely going to need some luck later.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Good stuff. Good luck for the ptq
EDIT:
I just went on the Faerie thread and found the list that beat us at the PTQ in Granada. You can find the list on Page 40 of the thread. It's different from other Faerie lists in that it splashes Red for Lightning Bolt and Izzet Charm in the mainboard, plus Ancient Grudge, Blood Moon, Forked Bolt and Izzet Staticaster in the sideboard. My largest concern, however, is that it has 3 Relic of Progenitus mainboard, making a really bad match-up nearly impossible to win.
So, is mainboard Relic common in Tempo decks or is this just a rogue player? If more decks start using Relic in the mainboard than our viability drops by a lot.
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
4 monstrous carabid
4 deadshot minotaur
3 architect of will
2 pale recluse
2 jungle weaver
4 fulminator mage
3 avalanche riders
4 demonic dread
3 living end
3 beast within
1 jund charm
3 ingot chewer
2 riccochet trap
2 brindle boar
2 gnaw to the bone
1 krosan grip
2 dismember
2 faerie macabre
1 avalanche riders
Round 1 - 1-2 vs 5-color-lotus-cobra?
Game 1 I cycle a weaver and a minotaur then outburst killing his cobra and geist of saint traft. He shocked himself to 16 so I won in 2 swings using jund charm to clear the way for the second hit.
Game 2 he gets thalia out t2 but I have jund charm. I take some cobra/thalia damage before t4 where I pass the turn planning on sweeping... then he gets to 6 mana using cobra and casts through the breach putting emrakul into play...
Game 3 he gets relic of progenitus out early and I play horribly against it. I cascade at stupid times etc - he ends up winning beating down with cobra and geist.
Round 2 - 2-0 vs Affinity
He really didnt know how to play against my deck and both games involved an early living end completely wiping his board including a glimmervoid, followed by fulminators on his nexus.
Round 3 - 0-2 vs RG tron
I was depressed as soon as he played t1 urzas mine - chromatic star. To my surprise he actually didn't have relic maindeck. I cycled like 5 guys into the yard in the first 3 turns and never drew a cascade or LD spell. He gets tron active and plays emrakul - I survive the first swing saccing all my guys and then outburst - but he casts 2 wurmcoils post combat and re-tutors the emrakul. G2 was t3 karn gg.
Round 4 - 2-1 vs Jund w blue
Blue for snapcaster and phantasmal image; the first game went long due to bad play by me. I had him at 2 life fairly early but then he cast a finks and copied it with phantasmal climbing back into the game. We figure between that and deathrites he gained 20 life during the game - I never took one point of dmg. G2 was long and I basically lost to rakdos charm in response to living end. G3 we had 5 minutes to play and I finally had the good hand with street wraiths, 1 mana cyclers, fulminator and then living end. Would have won by t5 he scooped after the end tho.
Let me first say this: when I do too good at Magic, I punt. I choke. I'm bad at fair Magic, where you have to trade with creatures and play spells that interact. If I could play decks that simply played Solitaire or chained through their whole deck playing every spell in every format, I would.
With that said, I'll say these two things: 1) I will forever love Living End, and 2) I went into this event with one of the most focused mindsets I have ever done for a big tournament (PTQ, Regionals, Grand Prix, etc.)
Eggs 0-2
Affinity 2-1
Burn 2-0
Splinter Twin 1-2
Melira Pod 2-0
Affinity 2-1
Burn 0-2
Result: 4-3
I know, I know. Not the exact results you want to see, but just hear me out.
I was playing some of the most intensive, uphill games of Magic in my entire life. The tournament ended 14 hours ago for me, and I'm still quite shaken up at how insane they were. For one of the few times in my life, I had just the most insane games I could play. Between having great hands all day until the last round (I rarely mulliganed, and when I did I usually kept a great 6). So many stacks of Magic happening with the mainboard Faerie Macabre and Jund Charm... BTW, Jund Charm in the main completely next levels this deck. Without it, I probably would of ended up 1-6 or 0-7. It's relevant in almost every single match, I am not exaggerating. I can't believe I played the deck without it, now I always will.
I wrote this in a rush so excuse my mistakes and maybe a lack of detail on certain parts. Some of the games got insane and it would drive me insane if I had to write down all those details right now.
I honestly didn't know what to do Game 1. I figured it's an auto-win for them but I tried to pay close attention to how the deck worked and find holes where I could suddenly disrupt him. I eventually scooped after 30 minutes when we established he couldn't fizzle.
Game 2 I tried reaching deep for the Leyline of Sanctity. Took a few mulls, and didn't hit it, but I kept a pretty safe hand with a Faerie and a Charm. I figured if I timed it right I could try to disrupt him if I wasn't winning yet. He started off extremely slow. I played defense, always keeping 3 mana open for a Charm or Beast Within, while keeping 1 mana open usually to toss dudes in the graveyard, like Ingot Chewer. I was able to Violent Outburst and have enough power on board, but once the combo started to happen and I tried to disrupt him, he actually managed to play around it. Even I had mulled to the Leyline, he had a single Laboratory Maniac as backup.
Affinity
Even though this match is favored towards us, it can be shaky because of how fast they go, how big Cranial Plating can be, oh and a little card called Arcbound Ravager. It was the typical smash fest though. He bashes me quick until I Jund Charm his board away, and then when I Violent Outburst I use the Faerie to remove his two big threats so his Ornithopter and Signal Pest are staring down a ton of my dudes. Affinity matches always put me on edge, but they're usually fun and you just gotta save those Ingot Chewers and Beast Within's.
Splinter Twin
Game one he just combos outta nowhere, I wasn't expecting it because he was playing some RUG version. He laid down BoP, alrighty... I'm still establishing myself and a combo happens outta nowhere. Whatever.
Game two he's digging deep, using a Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand. I play it conservatively so once I establish 3 mana I always keep 3 mana open for my Beast Within. I deny his red sources for a while with 2 Fullminator Mages. He tries to go for it but I deny it. After some back and forths, my bin is full of power over 24. I cascade in which he casts Counterflux. I use my sided Ricochet Trap so it targets my Demonic Dread. He proceeds to look pissed and scoops.
Game 3 was too intense. He tries to combo off, and I deny it with a Beast Within. He tries it again and I'm still sitting on my other Beast Within. He plays another Pestermite, in which I Violent Outburst to clear the board and put a little pressure with 2 beaters. Let me remind you he hasn't played any draw spells since game 1, and yet for a 3rd turn in a row he goes for it. Nice stacking? Geesh!
The land destruction was relevant but I figured since he is playing BoP and Deathrite Shaman (i.e. going for a turn 3 win instead of 4), his version is too fast for me to board in my Avalanche Riders. Maybe that was a mistake, because the Mages definitely helped.
Burn
He starts off with a mountain and Goblin Guide and I proceed to sink into my chair. I have no good sideboard cards against Burn, and I've never beat it with this deck. Here goes nothing...
I pretty much try to race him out and start cycling a lot of dudes. He surprisingly puts a decent amount of creatures on board, but still has a Lightning Bolt and Rift Bolt up his sleeve. I figured at this point I'm "all-in" on this match up and just start taking damage from my shock-lands because I figured the speed is worth it. If I slow myself down a turn and not play spells, he's going to make up for that 2 damage I saved myself. I eventually cascade into Living End, and go all out on those Mages (sac'd it before the End and after). That leaves him at 1 land (a mountain, because he had double Blood Crypt), and me at one life. I pretty much can't watch him draw his next card. He looks at his only 2 cards in his hand... Keldon Marauders, and it's game two. HOLY CRAP I GOT ONE IN.
Game two I bring in my 3rd Jund Charm and my 3 Leyline. First hand I just tossed back because it was crap no matter what I was playing against. My 6-cards were pretty good, and I started with a Leyline. That was backbreaking to him, but he still plays a few dudes here and there like Keldon Marauders (even though it pings him instead). Eventually I cascade Living End into a Pale Recluse, Monostrous Carabid, and Fullminator Mage. I swing once. He's at 5 life, and plays Ensnaring Bridge with 3 cards in hand. SICK. I swing for 3 with my Mage and Dryad Arbor, and proceed to Jund Charm my Arbor.
Did I seriously just win against Burn?
Pod
Game one was a Smash Fest on my part. He plays Deathrite's and dudes, and runs into 2 Kitchen Finks. I try to stall him out a bit with a Jund Charm, to which I Faerie Macabre his double Finks. Feels good, mang. He has Pod and starts searching for his combo pieces, and tries going off. Sorry bro, did I mention I play 2 Faerie Macabre in the main? His combo disintegrates, and I proceed to combo and smash face with a swampwalking Street Wraith that gets Wolf-Runned.
Game two was much more interesting in that I had to face backbreaking cards like Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist. I did start with a Leyline in play though, as I didn't want to die to the Murderous Redcap combo. I figured our deck is great against other decks that go on the ground and swing, so I forced him to do that. He applies a lot of pressure and swings with dudes but double Jund Charm is insane. I clear his board, and then remove his entire Graveyard so I can make sure the Living End is one-sided. I only have 3 dudes in play, two bigger ones and a Fullminator Mage. He pods a Finks into a Obstinate Baloth so he can block and pretty much negate the damage that does get through. He eventually Pod's into a Baneslayer Angel, which is a total difference-maker as it can kill my dudes WHILE gaining life. The thing is, that Demonic Dread that's been sitting in my hand for 3 turns is looking pretty good right now. I cast it and swing. He's not happy.
Affinity
Most Affinity match-ups are the same. They smash us game one until we can take out their 1 or 2 big threats, and then we Living End. Game 2 usually is a close game but damn thos Ravager tricks with Inkmoth Nexus. Game 3 is ours. This is how it always goes for me, how about you?
Burn
Oh, so we're doing this again? He starts with the infamous Mountain into Goblin Guide and I wonder if luck is on my side again. He proceeds to bash my face in but not without a fight. I took a hand with 2 Street Wraith's and am now regretting it (these are always the cards I automatically take out when we Side for game 2). I take a lot of damage, but I figure i toss the Wraith's so I can find an answer quick. My graveyard doesn't look too bad either. Between a Pale Recluse, Deadshot Minotaur, and 2 Street Wraith's that will be unblockable (thank you opposing Blood Crypt!), I feel safe to cast that Violent Outburst. I'm able to get him down under 5, but he just has too many burn spells that go over my head.
Game two I start with 7 that doesn't look too strong in a lot of match-ups. I go to 6, and I'm not seeing a Leyline or any other quick answers. Going to 5 provides me no lands or a Leyline. Let's see what 4 offers: Verdant Catacombs, Beast Within, Living End, Deadshot Minotaur. I don't like it but 3 could be worse at this point... it actually curves out pretty well as I draw into Copperline Gorge, another Beast Within if I need to stop combat-damage immediately, and a cycler here or there. The thing is, then I proceed to draw my 3rd Beast Within. Uh, sure. He's bashing and burning, but not at a rampant pace so I get some breathing room. Doesn't help when you draw your 4th Beast Within. I'm sitting on 4 lands but I'm not quite too sure if I want to start taking out my own lands so I can provide myself with a 3/3 or even two of them. This is probably where I finally punted the first time today and decide to just Beast Within his own dudes. It stops damage for a turn, and when he tries to swing with a token the next turn, I replace it with another. I figured I'm just Time Walking him until I can draw more answers, but my draws aren't going fast enough. He eventually can burn me down to 0. Oh well.
Final Thoughts
- Yes, I will continue to play this deck.
- Yes, I am still playing it at the next PTQ!
- 3 Shriekmaw was the only card I never sided in. It's a great card, but I had matches that never really called for it. The Ricochet Trap was nice in the one game but that was it. I would throw the Trap up on the chopping block so I could toss in some life-gain because I expect burn players in full force at my hometown's PTQ. However, a lot of the big name players and top players in this city will play blue. I'll decide over the next 4-5 weeks.
- Play this deck. Even though I ended on a mediocre 4-3 record, I can honestly say these were the funnest games I ever had in a single setting of a tournament. I wish I had gone over them in more detail, but that would require so much work and I am still mentally exhausted. I gave it my all, and I got what I deserved. I REALLY worked hard for my wins, and my losses came at my own fault (besides maybe 'Twin...) I chose not side any Lifegain, and I went into the tournament not knowing the Eggs match-up. There were surprisingly 6 Eggs players in a field of 115 people... It happens.
- Everyone you play this deck around will be amused. You somehow become the local legend of the day. I always hear people whisper excitedly "Oh my god he's playing that deck YES" and plenty of other comments that brightened my day.
I'm hoping you all have more success stories. Keep playing this deck!
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
It definitely makes a strong case for Leyline of Sanctity in the board, and Jund Charm in the main.
EDH: Borborygmos Enraged, Sedris, The Traitor King
60 Card: Grixis Delver, Living End, Shardless BUG, Ninjas
It may not matter in many cases, but from some reading I've been doing on the living end deck, I've seen it mentioned(on the first page primer here) that you can change the target when using ricochet trap to the trap itself so everything else still works.
UTron
BRGWLiving End
Commander
WRGBUSliver
That's what I've done. I've also moved Leyline of the Void out entirely in favor of 3 Leyline of Sanctity and a fourth Faerie Macabre in the board. Haven't tested yet but I'm zeroing in on my list for next Friday.
Doing some testing against Infect today (only other Modern deck I own so I'll have a friend play it. Not sure if I'll see any but it's such a cheap deck to build it wouldn't surprise me if it makes a showing. May be discouraging...