I like relic as well, since it has more versatility and has more relevant match-ups like living end, bgx, etc. I'm just throwing it out there in case sword becomes the next big thing.
So do most people think that AV is meh in jeskai? Or will it be a instant 4 of? I am on the boat that if it doesnt help vs out bad match ups and we dont have inherently bad cards to cut, then we shouldnt try and force it into the deck. That could lead to a lot of issues with consistency and dead draws imo.
So do most people think that AV is meh in jeskai? Or will it be a instant 4 of? I am on the boat that if it doesnt help vs out bad match ups and we dont have inherently bad cards to cut, then we shouldnt try and force it into the deck. That could lead to a lot of issues with consistency and dead draws imo.
Really bad topdeck, so I am not sure but I will be testing to see
I think it's a trap. It seems good, and perhaps will work some of the time, but I don't think it makes our deck any better against the things we need to be better against. It's also the worst topdeck I can think of, and in a deck where individual card quality matters, that's not good enough.
I think it's a trap. It seems good, and perhaps will work some of the time, but I don't think it makes our deck any better against the things we need to be better against. It's also the worst topdeck I can think of, and in a deck where individual card quality matters, that's not good enough.
That is how I feel. I feel jeskai is a deck that wants its cards to do something as soon as they hit the board. They need to be a threat or have a way to make a threat (TiTi). I feel like Esper draw go would have more use for this. Maybe in a low to the ground UR delver list with TiTi AV will be great allowing them to re fill there hand after spamming spells turn 3 and 4 to flip TiTi.
AV is what the deck needed. A CA engine, and now with Thopter unbanned as well we get to play Academy Ruins + Thirst for Knowledge. I will be testing a shell with 4 AV, 3 Thirst for Knowledge/2 Academy Ruins, & 3 Thopter Foundries/2 Swords + 4 Snaps. So that leaves about 19 slots or so for interaction. Since we have actual CA now that means we can stop running poor control cards like Remand and have all relevant interaction and a hard to disrupt G1 win-condition (that also stabilizes).
I wonder with 4 AV and 3 TFK if the deck can get away with playing 24 lands and a lower average CMC. If the most expensive spell in the deck is Cryptic @ 4, and Snaps @ 4 (or 6), we should be able to double spell pretty well on 4 lands. We don't have the requirement anymore of needing lots of lands for things like Sphinx's or Colonnade (though it's also nice too). I'm curious on others thoughts.
AV is what the deck needed. A CA engine, and now with Thopter unbanned as well we get to play Academy Ruins + Thirst for Knowledge. I will be testing a shell with 4 AV, 3 Thirst for Knowledge/2 Academy Ruins, & 3 Thopter Foundries/2 Swords + 4 Snaps. So that leaves about 19 slots or so for interaction. Since we have actual CA now that means we can stop running poor control cards like Remand and have all relevant interaction and a hard to disrupt G1 win-condition (that also stabilizes).
I wonder with 4 AV and 3 TFK if the deck can get away with playing 24 lands and a lower average CMC. If the most expensive spell in the deck is Cryptic @ 4, and Snaps @ 4 (or 6), we should be able to double spell pretty well on 4 lands. We don't have the requirement anymore of needing lots of lands for things like Sphinx's or Colonnade (though it's also nice too). I'm curious on others thoughts.
I think this would be better in and Esper shell or a UB tezz shell. And with jace and snapcaster I have not felt I have a bad CA engine. I also dont run remands. SO I am not sure what you mean there. But a thopter deck with Visions seems good. But I thinka Esper or a UB shell would be a lot better.
You want AV as soon as possible in the match, so it's a 0-of or 4-of. It also kind of blows my mind that people wo have been playing Remand and Mana Leak in a Path to Exile deck for the last few years worry about Ancestral Vision being a bad topdeck
You want AV as soon as possible in the match, so it's a 0-of or 4-of. It also kind of blows my mind that people wo have been playing Remand and Mana Leak in a Path to Exile deck for the last few years worry about Ancestral Vision being a bad topdeck
I have not been up set with mana leak to be honest. It is hardly a dead draw for me unless I am VS tron. Other wise most of the time it read 1U counter a spells or this is the only spell you can play this turn. So I am happy with it. Also teh 2/2 split of cryptic and O.command is nice. and logic knot has been great. Also I tested deprive for a while and it was good but setting you back a land hurt vs decks that you needed a t4 wrath with.
You want AV as soon as possible in the match, so it's a 0-of or 4-of. It also kind of blows my mind that people wo have been playing Remand and Mana Leak in a Path to Exile deck for the last few years worry about Ancestral Vision being a bad topdeck
Remand does stuff instantly. Mana Leak does stuff instantly. Path is a great top deck against creature decks, and is far better late than early. Ancestral Vision is dead for 4 turns.
I'm going for 3x. I'm currently on Esper Control but AV change everything.
Just not sure about the build, still i'm going with trhee because is something i want to see soon but not in multiple copies in early games, where i need counters.
It's huge and finally the deck have what he need to be grate again
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My Decks on Paper: UWR Control/Midrange/Delver UWR Twin Miss you GBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only) GWAura Hexproof GWHatebears
AV is what the deck needed. A CA engine, and now with Thopter unbanned as well we get to play Academy Ruins + Thirst for Knowledge. I will be testing a shell with 4 AV, 3 Thirst for Knowledge/2 Academy Ruins, & 3 Thopter Foundries/2 Swords + 4 Snaps. So that leaves about 19 slots or so for interaction. Since we have actual CA now that means we can stop running poor control cards like Remand and have all relevant interaction and a hard to disrupt G1 win-condition (that also stabilizes).
I wonder with 4 AV and 3 TFK if the deck can get away with playing 24 lands and a lower average CMC. If the most expensive spell in the deck is Cryptic @ 4, and Snaps @ 4 (or 6), we should be able to double spell pretty well on 4 lands. We don't have the requirement anymore of needing lots of lands for things like Sphinx's or Colonnade (though it's also nice too). I'm curious on others thoughts.
I think this would be better in and Esper shell or a UB tezz shell. And with jace and snapcaster I have not felt I have a bad CA engine. I also dont run remands. SO I am not sure what you mean there. But a thopter deck with Visions seems good. But I thinka Esper or a UB shell would be a lot better.
It's probably better in UB Tezz, but that doesn't mean it isn't good in UWR. Esper I'm not so sold on since they have good CA all ready, but perhaps they'll use Thopter Sword instead of WSZ now...I mean, the thing we've been lacking for the last few years has been 1) CA engine 2) General answers. We just got #1 answered. Maybe we don't need Thopter Sword / Thirst / Academy Ruins, but that is a lot of value and win-condition in one. Straight away you're going to be a dog to all the other control decks running this, so keep that in mind. Also, Jace is/can be an engine, but he's fragile and as slow/slower than AV and Snapcaster is not an engine. He's a value-card - sometimes (if the 2/1 body is relevant and or you flashbacked Electrolyze or Cryptic). AV is raw cards. It's made for decks like ours.
Have been doing some testing for Ancestral Vision, and boy oh boy is it fun. I don't like it as a 4 of, but as a 3 of for jeskai control. Every time i resolved a vision, it has won me the game except vs tron since i couldn't find answers to the dude's conduit of ruin finding ulamog twice. However, Visions is such a potent card to have, giving us the late game guarantee if we can keep control for it to resolve.
You want AV as soon as possible in the match, so it's a 0-of or 4-of. It also kind of blows my mind that people wo have been playing Remand and Mana Leak in a Path to Exile deck for the last few years worry about Ancestral Vision being a bad topdeck
I have not been up set with mana leak to be honest. It is hardly a dead draw for me unless I am VS tron. Other wise most of the time it read 1U counter a spells or this is the only spell you can play this turn. So I am happy with it. Also teh 2/2 split of cryptic and O.command is nice. and logic knot has been great. Also I tested deprive for a while and it was good but setting you back a land hurt vs decks that you needed a t4 wrath with.
I have been trying out titi with 2x cryptic 2x ojutai's as well and it has been pretty great. However I also do have to say that Grixis has just been much stronger when running titi due to being able to flip it much faster and a less awkward timing with snapcaster recurrence (kolaghan's putting snap in hand vs ojutai's putting it on the field). But with AV, titi, new avacyn, SotM and Nahiri all at the same time the brewing possibilities have just become overwhelming
AV is what the deck needed. A CA engine, and now with Thopter unbanned as well we get to play Academy Ruins + Thirst for Knowledge. I will be testing a shell with 4 AV, 3 Thirst for Knowledge/2 Academy Ruins, & 3 Thopter Foundries/2 Swords + 4 Snaps. So that leaves about 19 slots or so for interaction. Since we have actual CA now that means we can stop running poor control cards like Remand and have all relevant interaction and a hard to disrupt G1 win-condition (that also stabilizes).
I wonder with 4 AV and 3 TFK if the deck can get away with playing 24 lands and a lower average CMC. If the most expensive spell in the deck is Cryptic @ 4, and Snaps @ 4 (or 6), we should be able to double spell pretty well on 4 lands. We don't have the requirement anymore of needing lots of lands for things like Sphinx's or Colonnade (though it's also nice too). I'm curious on others thoughts.
I think this would be better in and Esper shell or a UB tezz shell. And with jace and snapcaster I have not felt I have a bad CA engine. I also dont run remands. SO I am not sure what you mean there. But a thopter deck with Visions seems good. But I thinka Esper or a UB shell would be a lot better.
It's probably better in UB Tezz, but that doesn't mean it isn't good in UWR. Esper I'm not so sold on since they have good CA all ready, but perhaps they'll use Thopter Sword instead of WSZ now...I mean, the thing we've been lacking for the last few years has been 1) CA engine 2) General answers. We just got #1 answered. Maybe we don't need Thopter Sword / Thirst / Academy Ruins, but that is a lot of value and win-condition in one. Straight away you're going to be a dog to all the other control decks running this, so keep that in mind. Also, Jace is/can be an engine, but he's fragile and as slow/slower than AV and Snapcaster is not an engine. He's a value-card - sometimes (if the 2/1 body is relevant and or you flashbacked Electrolyze or Cryptic). AV is raw cards. It's made for decks like ours.
Snap casting backa card in you grave yard is card advatage. you are using one card in hand to cast 1 card not in hand while makinga 2/1 body. And jace is faster then AV in my opinion. turn two you drop him. turn 3 you loot and turn 4 you loot that draws you 2 cards and lets you dump bad cards. Turn 5 if he flips then you draw 3 cards and get to flashback a card. if he flips turn 4 its draw 2 and flash back a card. IMO that is a lot better then a card that is dead post turn 4.
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Extraction effects are usually terrible, but it's a possibility. I vastly prefer Relic of Progenitus, though.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Really bad topdeck, so I am not sure but I will be testing to see
"If it was easy, everyone would do it."
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
That is how I feel. I feel jeskai is a deck that wants its cards to do something as soon as they hit the board. They need to be a threat or have a way to make a threat (TiTi). I feel like Esper draw go would have more use for this. Maybe in a low to the ground UR delver list with TiTi AV will be great allowing them to re fill there hand after spamming spells turn 3 and 4 to flip TiTi.
I wonder with 4 AV and 3 TFK if the deck can get away with playing 24 lands and a lower average CMC. If the most expensive spell in the deck is Cryptic @ 4, and Snaps @ 4 (or 6), we should be able to double spell pretty well on 4 lands. We don't have the requirement anymore of needing lots of lands for things like Sphinx's or Colonnade (though it's also nice too). I'm curious on others thoughts.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I think this would be better in and Esper shell or a UB tezz shell. And with jace and snapcaster I have not felt I have a bad CA engine. I also dont run remands. SO I am not sure what you mean there. But a thopter deck with Visions seems good. But I thinka Esper or a UB shell would be a lot better.
I have not been up set with mana leak to be honest. It is hardly a dead draw for me unless I am VS tron. Other wise most of the time it read 1U counter a spells or this is the only spell you can play this turn. So I am happy with it. Also teh 2/2 split of cryptic and O.command is nice. and logic knot has been great. Also I tested deprive for a while and it was good but setting you back a land hurt vs decks that you needed a t4 wrath with.
Remand does stuff instantly. Mana Leak does stuff instantly. Path is a great top deck against creature decks, and is far better late than early. Ancestral Vision is dead for 4 turns.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Just not sure about the build, still i'm going with trhee because is something i want to see soon but not in multiple copies in early games, where i need counters.
It's huge and finally the deck have what he need to be grate again
UWR Control/Midrange/Delver
UWR TwinMiss youGBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only)
GWAura Hexproof
GWHatebears
And yes AV doesn't do anything for four turns, that is indeed how suspend works. It's also draw 3 for U
It's probably better in UB Tezz, but that doesn't mean it isn't good in UWR. Esper I'm not so sold on since they have good CA all ready, but perhaps they'll use Thopter Sword instead of WSZ now...I mean, the thing we've been lacking for the last few years has been 1) CA engine 2) General answers. We just got #1 answered. Maybe we don't need Thopter Sword / Thirst / Academy Ruins, but that is a lot of value and win-condition in one. Straight away you're going to be a dog to all the other control decks running this, so keep that in mind. Also, Jace is/can be an engine, but he's fragile and as slow/slower than AV and Snapcaster is not an engine. He's a value-card - sometimes (if the 2/1 body is relevant and or you flashbacked Electrolyze or Cryptic). AV is raw cards. It's made for decks like ours.
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
I have been trying out titi with 2x cryptic 2x ojutai's as well and it has been pretty great. However I also do have to say that Grixis has just been much stronger when running titi due to being able to flip it much faster and a less awkward timing with snapcaster recurrence (kolaghan's putting snap in hand vs ojutai's putting it on the field). But with AV, titi, new avacyn, SotM and Nahiri all at the same time the brewing possibilities have just become overwhelming
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Snap casting backa card in you grave yard is card advatage. you are using one card in hand to cast 1 card not in hand while makinga 2/1 body. And jace is faster then AV in my opinion. turn two you drop him. turn 3 you loot and turn 4 you loot that draws you 2 cards and lets you dump bad cards. Turn 5 if he flips then you draw 3 cards and get to flashback a card. if he flips turn 4 its draw 2 and flash back a card. IMO that is a lot better then a card that is dead post turn 4.